 
owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Wichita Falls, TX | Threat? Yeah, a threat to the airport's financial security! | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | Re: Threat? Yeah if we can get it "free" why would they pay for our service i want to complain about this to someone and put it better terms now airport security now thats a good debate to tie this in with! | |
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netddos
Life Goes On..
join:2001-08-28
Fullerton, CA | Treat my a$$... Oh yea..feed wifi will not be a threat whereas free wifi will. I never knew money can make wifi technology impenetrable. Amazing!
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"No one can be perfect, but you shine through your imperfections." | |
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BIGMIKE
"I do not know with what weapons World W
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| Re: Airport security sucks Airport security sucks. For anyone not familiar with the what goes on at an airport security check, it's where you're harassed by balding, middle-aged men and women with yellow armpit stains. They'll submit you to rigorous interrogation by asking you questions to ensure that you're not a terrorist plotting to blow up the airplane (because that's what all terrorists do). Some of the questions you might be asked
# Have you received any packages from strangers?
# Did you pack your own luggage?
# Was your luggage in your posession at all times?
That last question gets me every time. I have a bad habit of leaving my luggage with unscrupulous looking strangers so my shit gets stolen before I go on my trip. Please. What's the point of asking these questions? Anyone planning on blowing up an airplane probably isn't going to be honest enough to answer these questions truthfully in the first place. Even if the terrorists were dumb enough to answer these questions truthfully, chances are that they'd be too damn stupid to pull off the crime anyway! What the hell is the point?
I was carrying a box through the security check point at LAX the other day, when I was suddenly stopped by an officer that asked me what was in my box. I told him "a doll" and he took my word for it, letting me pass through. If he was going to take my word for it anyway, then what the hell was the point of asking? I could have said shoes, clothes, or even a good Smashing Pumpkins album (if one existed). Does he hope that by asking enough stupid questions that eventually a terrorist would slip up and say "a bomb," at which point officer dipshit would arrest him or her? Morons.
»maddox.xmission.com/airport.html | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | Re: Airport security sucks Not like it was down in houston my father went to las vegas and they basically had a bomb/drug sniffer dog on every part on him and ran him through metal detector 3 times and checked his bags by opening and and looking around. | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
 ·VoicePulse
| said by BIGMIKE  :# Have you received any packages from strangers? # Did you pack your own luggage? # Was your luggage in your posession at all times? Technically, these questions are asked to prove guilt, should they find something. Much like the police looking at the gun in your hand and saying "is that yours?" Answering yes proves is it, and when tests show it to be the murder weapon, you can't claim it isn't yours.
Has your luggage been in your possession the entire time? Yes? Ok well then the knife that is in it must have been put there by you.
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AMD A64 3200+/ MSI K8N Neo Platinum/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 6800GT/Gainward 5200PCI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler | |
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| | mattdawg
join:2005-01-09
Auburn Hills, MI
| said by BIGMIKE :a good Smashing Pumpkins album (if one existed). How dare you | |
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kfolsom
A face made for radio.
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Yucaipa, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Airport security sucks said by mattdawg :said by BIGMIKE :a good Smashing Pumpkins album (if one existed). How dare you He who dares, wins...
--
Q: What is- More powerful than God; More evil than Satan; rich people want it and poor people have it; If you eat it you will die? A: Nothing.»www.folsomtech.com | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| said by BIGMIKE :Some of the questions you might be asked # Was your luggage in your posession at all times? I was returning from a trip right after Labor Day 1996 having gotten to the air port on a Hotel Bus (where the baggage was stowed in compartments under the floor). The person ahead of me got sick of this dumb question and answered honestly by saying that he had (also) come in on the Hotel Bus (implying that his bags were thus out of his sight while in the baggage compartment) but that was not a problem since Greg Morris (ie: Mission Impossible's Barney Collier) had died the prior weekend. The clerk then called for security since she was too dumb to understand the answer (ie: That with Morris dead there was little possibility that he was hidden in the compartment to fool with the luggage as his character often did on the show). | |
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PBX Tech
Theory of a Deadman on XM 48 Squizz
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT | Re: Threat? Typical Mass-holes. | |
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rileyjam514
There You Go Again...
join:2005-06-26
Kearny, NJ | OK.. huh? DOES NOT COMPUTE.
Ok maybe it does. I mean, government is supposed to solve everything, even provide taxed wireless internet and smash the evil free market goons who eat babies for breakfast. | |
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lazsheriff
Laz
join:2005-01-03
Fort Lauderdale, FL | .... I'm so sure Free Wi-Fi is at the top of the list of biggest threats to an airport. | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: .... said by lazsheriff :I'm so sure Free Wi-Fi is at the top of the list of biggest threats to an airport. Right up there with spork (those fork+spoon things) stabbings.
What's funny is how somehow one group's wireless network is a threat, while the other isn't. What blatant hypocrisy. Do they think everybody is an idiot or something?
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"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 8800+ messages currently using 268 MB (11%) of my 2442 MB | |
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| | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: .... said by Nerdtalker :What's funny is how somehow one group's wireless network is a threat, while the other isn't. What blatant hypocrisy. Do they think everybody is an idiot or something? No, it's just a proven fact that terrorists can't/don't pay for things. Thus, offering free WiFi will make the airport a haven for bombers.
See, it all makes sense, especially when you fly coach. They treat everyone in the back like potential Osamas, yet are completely stress-free about first class. (I was once warned to not "rush the cockpit" from coach, even though I was using the restroom about 5 feet from me.) After all, no terrorist would pay first class, right?
Oh wait...most of the 9/11 hijackers were well-funded and had first class tickets. Never mind. | |
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Marco2005
@rr.com
| Wireless security is there really such a thing? I think the security measures that you can implement on wireless equipment can only result in slowing down an intruders access to your network.
If you are going to install wireless for people to use make sure it is on its own separate network. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL | Hold a Ticket, Get Free Wifi Maybe they can make it that the user must input their ticket # and flight details for free access ? | |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| It's Logan... Logan, or the Airport, can certainly make all the rules they want for the Airlines to follow, it's called a lease.
If they wanted to forbid airlines from giving their passengers free softdrinks in the concources as well, they can certainly restrict that as well.
Besides, Logan makes money from passengers and what they purcahse as they pass through. If airlines start giving away potential revenue streams.... get it? Besides, Continental Airlines can offer wired service for their passengers in their lounge, if they have one. But again, it all will boil down to what they can and can't do in the airport based on their agreement.
Sorry, but in my book, Logan wins. | |
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| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
edit:
August 4th, @07:25PM
| Re: It's Logan... quote:
Sorry, but in my book, Logan wins.
That "book" ain't worth very much.
The FCC is the sole regulator of non-U.S. Goverment use of the radio spectrum. Congress said so in the Communications Act of 1934, and again in 1996. Wi-Fi operates on C.F.R. 47 Part 15 as unlicensed, "free for all" spectrum; i.e., you can use it on a non-exclusive basis, but you have no protection from interference from other users.
Especially considering it is a branch of local government, Federal law pre-empts any rules Logan airport may try to impose. This is no different than the case of public univesities that tried, and failed to "regulate" Wi-Fi AP's in their dorms.
If Logan wants to offer a paid service that is not subject to interference, then they can buy a license in another part of the spectrum at auction, and offer the service. Oh yea, they need to convince laptop manufacturers to build in radios for the service. I wish them luck. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: It's Logan... I was not aware that the FCC dish rules applied to business agreements. And yes, a business lease holder CAN apply certain business practice restrictions to it's tenants.
However, I am sure that they may have to wait until their current agreement ends.
I would say that this is a question for an attorney in the proper forum anyways. | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
moderated:
August 6th, @09:30PM
| Re: It's Logan... Nice try, but you were outed on this one big time.
A lease provision which prevented use of FCC approved WiFi equipment in a private airport membership lounge would be struck down, pre-empted by Federal law among other things. Not to mention being totally stupid.
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When there is nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire. | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
moderated:
August 6th, @09:33PM
| Re: It's Logan... said by RadioDoc :Nice try, but you were outed on this one big time. A lease provision which prevented use of FCC approved WiFi equipment in a private airport membership lounge would be struck down, pre-empted by Federal law among other things. Not to mention being totally stupid. Your assumption that a ruling would go a certain way is pretty much just that. You provide no supporting logic. Now, granted that the Airline might be able to force the Airport to allow the placement of an AP withing their leased spaces, by your argument there is absolutely nothing to stop the Airport from then surrounding the Airline's spaces with half a dozen AP's operating at maximum legal power and broadcasting one on each channel. That would ensure that there is practically no spot within the confines of the Airline's space which can get ANY service at all. Obviously this situation is not what the FCC envisioned when establishing the current rules.
It is therefore impossible for you, or anyone else, to say for sure exactly how the FCC and the courts would decide on this matter.
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Improve your wireless signal! | |
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BronsCon
join:2003-10-24
Cleveland, OH
·Cox HSI
| said by PDXPLT:
The FCC is the sole regulator of non-U.S. Goverment use of the radio spectrum. Congress said so in the Communications Act of 1934, and again in 1996. Wi-Fi operates on C.F.R. 47 Part 15 as unlicensed, "free for all" spectrum; i.e., you can use it on a non-exclusive basis, but you have no protection from interference from other users.
on logan's property, if they say no unauthorized wireless devices are to be used on said property, that has nothing to do with the airwaves.
then all they have to do is define authorized, most likely as "Any device which is registered with the airport for use with the airport wi-fi system for the day or operates outside the CFR band". This would allow cell phones, 2-way radios, basically anything that is not wi-fi equipment.
as a side note, and this is the only thing i'm posting today that i'm not entirely positive of (ask a lawyer about the above statements and they'll tell you i'm right): I'm pretty sure they can legally prevent such devices from being enabled or used within range of their property as well. | |
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Interested Party
@apcinc.com
 from:
RadioDoc
| Re: It's Logan... Try reading the following from the FCC.
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···44A1.pdf
In response, we reaffirm that, under the Communications Act, the FCC has exclusive
authority to resolve matters involving radio frequency interference [RFI] when unlicensed
devices are being used, regardless of venue. We also affirm that the rights that consumers have
under our rules to install and operate customer antennas one meter or less in size apply to the
operation of unlicensed equipment, such as Wi-Fi access points - just as they do to the use of
equipment in connection with fixed wireless services licensed by the FCC.
The rules prohibit homeowner associations, landlords, state and
local governments, or any other third parties from placing restrictions that impair a customer
antenna user's ability to install, maintain, or use such customer antennas transmitting and/or
receiving commercial nonbroadcast communications signals when the antenna is located “on
property within the exclusive use or control” of the user... | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
·VoicePulse Connect
·Teliax VOIP
·Speed Factory
| said by fiberguy :Logan, or the Airport, can certainly make all the rules they want for the Airlines to follow, it's called a lease. Disclaimer: IANAL, just someone intimately familiar with the OTARD rules. 
The FCC OTARD rules (better known as the "dish law") trump the lease...the OTARD rules cover antennas used for Wi-Fi ("fixed wireless") just the same as they do for the DirecTV dish on my roof.
From everything CO has said, it's obvious that CO very clearly meets the OTARD standards and is entitled to offer its free Wi-Fi. The President's Club lounge is leased exclusively to CO under a relativey normal commercial lease (it is not a shared space like a gate or a baggage handling area is) and so is an area where CO has "exclusive use and control", and the antenna is within said area where CO has "exclusive use and control" -- specifically, it's an AP sitting on a shelf in the lounge. Massport has not met the burden required to override the OTARD rules -- Logan is clearly not a historic preservation area, and Massport hasn't specified any clear safety reason for not allowing the antenna, only vague statements that "it might interfere with security operations" (and an AP sitting on a shelf indoors, in an interior part of the airport, can't be considered an unsafe antenna installation by any reasonable person.) The "shared antenna" rule doesn't apply in this case since CO can't offer the service of its choice (free to employees and club members) via Massport's system...it's no different than being allowed to put up a DirecTV dish when a condominium only has a shared dish for Dish Network, like one down the street from me does.
This is quite clearly a revenue grab by Massport and nothing else.
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
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| | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA | Re: It's Logan... OTARD covers reception not transmission. Since COs AP is sending the signal it isn't covered. | |
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| | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: It's Logan... said by cmaenginsb :OTARD covers reception not transmission. Since COs AP is sending the signal it isn't covered. Actually, the FCC expanded the OTARD rules to included wireless internet access, which is both RX and TX. They further clarified that this includes "mesh" type wireless access, which could emcompass Wi-Fi topologies.
But the issue is broader than the OTARD rule. The radio spectrum in the vicinity of Logan Airport, or anywhere else in the U.S., is owned by the people of the Unitied States, according to Congress. Logan doesn't own it, and therefore can't regulate it. The FCC and the NTIA are the only goverment entities in the U.S. with the authority to regulate use of the radio spectrum. | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| * ding * "Massport told the airline it could route its wireless signals over Logan's Wi-Fi signal, at a "very reasonable rate structure." In response, however, Continental said using Logan's Wi-Fi vendor could force the airline to start charging its customers for the service."
Massport is attempting to change the terms of Continental's lease after-the-fact. What a laughable bunch of morons.
Logan has far more serious problems than Continental's lounge customers getting a WiFi freebie..
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When there is nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire. | |
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| BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: * ding * said by RadioDoc :" Massport told the airline it could route its wireless signals over Logan's Wi-Fi signal, at a "very reasonable rate structure." In response, however, Continental said using Logan's Wi-Fi vendor could force the airline to start charging its customers for the service."Massport is attempting to change the terms of Continental's lease after-the-fact. What a laughable bunch of morons. Logan has far more serious problems than Continental's lounge customers getting a WiFi freebie.. Yeah like doing the windows on every house around the airport because of the noise from the jets. Every 5 or so years like clock work
On a funny note a cantenna can pick up their signal from almost 5 miles away. ( coffee can )
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| Re: * ding * said by BosstonesOwn :said by RadioDoc :" Massport told the airline it could route its wireless signals over Logan's Wi-Fi signal, at a "very reasonable rate structure." In response, however, Continental said using Logan's Wi-Fi vendor could force the airline to start charging its customers for the service."Massport is attempting to change the terms of Continental's lease after-the-fact. What a laughable bunch of morons. Logan has far more serious problems than Continental's lounge customers getting a WiFi freebie.. Yeah like doing the windows on every house around the airport because of the noise from the jets. Every 5 or so years like clock work On a funny note a cantenna can pick up their signal from almost 5 miles away. ( coffee can ) Oh wow, Now there's a national security threat, Just like taking photos of trains can get one hassled by the cops. 
Logan Airport and MTA can shuck It, Go Continental!:D
--
Firefox forever!
»zoom314.blogspot.com/
»mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/ | |
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123abcff
@bellsouth.net
| So here's the thing... I was in some airport (forget which, I think atlanta) and they had the fee based wireless setup but I was sitting in a terminal that was outside of the Continental Presidents room and was able to use their free wireless (even though I wasn't a member, it let me sign on, no security/login/etc).
Whoopie for me. Keep in mind, the range really isn't all that far and there are rarely any outlets for power anyway. Typically only a few silver/gold continental travelers would benefit (and maybe a few savy users in the one or two gates close by), the other >90% of the people in the airport would be out of range to make use of it. | |
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Good Ol Dan
join:2000-05-15
Rochelle Park, NJ
| Re: * ding * said by RadioDoc :Logan has far more serious problems than Continental's lounge customers getting a WiFi freebie.. Just remember... we're talking about WiFi service in the President's Club here. Except for a few squatters who find the coverage just outside the Club walls, Club members have typically paid a couple hundred bucks each year for a package of services which includes WiFi service. Not exactly a freebie...
Good for Continental in standing up to these jerks! I've seen similar attempted power plays by tin gods at other airports around the country, notably SFO.
Dan | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | Re: * ding * Precisely. As a United Airlines Red Carpet Club member, I know of what you speak...
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When there is nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire. | |
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richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
| Huh? In an earlier article, Logan says that Continental's free WiFi is interfering with Aircraft electronics. Then, in the same paragraph, it says it offers WiFi at $7.95. Continental's is interfering and their is not.
The only thing Continental is 'interfering' with is Logan's income.
Too Bad | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| Re: Huh? said by richk_1957 :In an earlier article, Logan says that Continental's free WiFi is interfering with Aircraft electronics. Then, in the same paragraph, it says it offers WiFi at $7.95. Continental's is interfering and their is not. The only thing Continental is 'interfering' with is Logan's income. Too Bad I'll agree to that! Greedy aren't they??
--
Firefox forever!
»zoom314.blogspot.com/
»mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/ | |
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burgerwars
join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Yeah, right. If some bad person needs to use the internet to do something really bad, do you think having to pay for it will stop them? Are paying internet users more safe than non-paying users?
On 9/11, all the hijackers did pay for their tickets. Kind of hard to try and hijack a plane without a ticket. That said, a bad-guy needing to pay $7.95 to do something bad isn't going to stop him. Logan Airport just wants revenue. Plain and simple. | |
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pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
·ViaTalk
| Not a Problem In EWR,, ATL ,ORD,etc I have used the President's club free Wi-Fi in many of Continental's clubs. It seems to co-exist with the paid services in the terminals quite well in all other Airports.
Logan is obviously trying to get some more money for the MTA to pay for the cost overruns on the Big Dig. Lets see, it should only take about 2.4*10^9 paying customers before they get enough money.;)
What's next: they wont be able to serve free wine, beer and spirits because it competes with the vendors in the concourse?
I feel the WiFi and other amenities are not "free". I pay for them as part of my membership dues to the Club.
Tim | |
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nimbyolites
| bimyolites Not on my backyard-olites from the air port security capital of the world that let hijackers board planes to destroy the world trade center...
Yah! Right... an iddy biddy widdle wifi blu-ha-ha
What they don't have enough of in BOSTON is COMMON SENSE!! | |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| Re: bimyolites said by nimbyolites:
Not on my backyard-olites from the air port security capital of the world that let hijackers board planes to destroy the world trade center...
Yah! Right... an iddy biddy widdle wifi blu-ha-ha
What they don't have enough of in BOSTON is COMMON SENSE!!
At risk of taking a cheap shot, isn't Boston the city that is home of the "Big Dig", the multi-gazillion dollar underground highway project that took years to build, went astronomically over budget, and then after it was finished, promptly flooded, rendering it unusable? Of course, nobody would EVER think that water might collect in the lowest part of a freeway underpass. 
I realize there's probably much more to it than that, but I think that single project was fodder for several NBC Nightly News "Fleecing of America" segments. So, yeah, "Boston" and "common sense" don't exactly go together, apparently. | |
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| | broadbander
join:2005-07-21
Brooklyn, NY | Re: bimyolites Nah, there's not much more. You've pretty much got it. | |
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nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA | Threat? What a laugh. I lived in Boston and I'm really getting sicks of those claims by the Mass Port Authority, it is about time some to fight them back. You all heard of the BigDig project don't you? MassPort Authority is the author behind it. | |
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dipdewdog
join:2003-11-07
Washington, DC | Comcast... The article doesn't say it, but last time I was at Logan, the WiFi was provided by Comcast... | |
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voyager6868
join:2003-01-29
Waterloo, ON | 9-11 Too bad Logan wasn't as "concerned" about security. say, oh... almost 4 years ago... | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | Let me just point out... That these are essentially the same people you all want to run Muni's, you know...for the competition.
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Pi Piru Piru Piru PiPiru Pi! | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| Re: Let me just point out... said by Combat Chuck :That these are essentially the same people you all want to run Muni's, you know...for the competition. /sarcasm ON
Oh, no, I'd much rather have Verizon running the Muni's. Verizon or Comcast or Cablevision or any one of the big players. That way when I wanted to biatch I could spend two hours on hold waiting for a tech. That way I could pay whatever rate they negotiated with the Pols while agreeing to provide the kickbacks in the form of tarrifs. Hell no I don't want the people who built the Industry to remain in control of the last mile. Hell no, that makes too damn much sense to me.
/sarcasm OFF
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Improve your wireless signal! | |
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polockdoc
join:2003-07-07
Southampton, PA
| Probably just like Philly I'd bet that some politically connected scumbags at Logan stand to make a few bucks if the Continental ban goes through. Here in Philadelphia many of the airport (PHL)concessions owe their existence to the late Ron White, a very good friend of Mayor John Street. The mayor's brother was about to get a no-bid contract to maintain the baggage handling equipt. at the airport, until the word got out that Milton Street had ZERO experience.
Finish this sentence:
A politician is like a used condom because... | |
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quisp65
join:2003-05-03
San Diego, CA
| Logan must think lease doesn't cover it... I think Logan must feel their lease doesn't keep the airline from setting up free wireless otherwise that would have been the grounds that they would have went after them on. So instead they invented the security garbage. Given todays climate in the "Land of the Brave" it just might work. | |
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DarkSly
join:2004-12-10
Danvers, MA
edit:
August 5th, @11:43AM
| Comcast? I am pretty sure Comcast owns the spectrum there unless it has recently changed... there used to be "Comcast Wi-Fi Hotspot" signs all over the place in Logan.
»www.loganwifi.com/content/defaul···id=10156 | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: Comcast? Noone owns the WiFi spectrum. | |
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3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| Re: Comcast? said by ieolus :Noone owns the WiFi spectrum. »/useremail/u/1223435 owns it?
--
The preceeding post may contain dry humor. Be still, my love, my watermelon rind. I am consumed with your collection of agile fans and spare blades. | |
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Free Vs. Fee Wi-Fi
