 
DreamWraith
Premium
join:2004-04-07
Mount Vernon, WA | Re: Article the article writer fails to mention, or point out that providers are STILL dragging their feet. sure they are making increases, but they are VERY small ones, and not even close to being on par with that of download speeds. | |
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gwbuffalo
join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL
 ·Comcast
| Re: Article Yeah, and you have to wonder if the RIAA and MPAA are part of the reason. They have to be pushing to keep upload speeds down to try and keep piracy down. I don't get why cable companies will offer 10 megabit down but stick us with crappy 768 upload speeds. It drives me nuts!
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Alt-This -- My Tech Podcast | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
 ·Internet Nebraska
| Re: Article I have heard that it is a way to force businesses to pay a hefty price for their symmetric services, IE a T-1. Who would pay for a T-1 line if you could get a 5/5 Meg cable line? Actually, that is a can of worms Verizon is opening with their FIOS...
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Japanese scientists have created a camera with such a fast shutter speed, they now can photograph a woman with her mouth shut. | |
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| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Article t 5 ?
Did I miss a new level of service there ? I though oc are the next step up from a t-3 / ds-3.
Btw T1 prices are only 250 a month now and falling fast. t1 with an sla can be had for $250 but if you turn down the sla they can go as cheap as $99.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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scooby
Premium
join:2001-05-01
Chicago, IL
| Re: Article said by BosstonesOwn  :t 5 ? Did I miss a new level of service there ? I though oc are the next step up from a t-3 / ds-3. Btw T1 prices are only 250 a month now and falling fast. t1 with an sla can be had for $250 but if you turn down the sla they can go as cheap as $99. Links backing this up? Maybe for the line charges but not for both line and data. | |
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| | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Article said by scooby :said by BosstonesOwn :t 5 ? Did I miss a new level of service there ? I though oc are the next step up from a t-3 / ds-3. Btw T1 prices are only 250 a month now and falling fast. t1 with an sla can be had for $250 but if you turn down the sla they can go as cheap as $99. Links backing this up? Maybe for the line charges but not for both line and data. Call sbc or qwest. at this point they are quoting well below 250 if you are even remotely close to any co with a decent pop.
»www.t1market.com/ is the fastest look up service i know of but any call to the csr's in their respective business divisions and you will get a decent quote in 10 min max.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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join:2001-06-09
Allen, TX
| Re: Article said by BosstonesOwn :Call sbc or qwest. at this point they are quoting well below 250 if you are even remotely close to any co with a decent pop. You obviously havent been T1 shopping recently.
Tariff price on a loop is somewhere around 250 in the state of Texas. Add data charges to this, you easily get to 500. SBC quoted me just the other day at 545 plus tax.
It doesnt matter if you are close to a CO, within a POP, or anything like that. The monthly cost of a dedicated hi-cap line is pretty much the same across the board. There isnt much of a change between prices.
Its the installation costs that will get you. If you live in the boonies, you can get a T-1 provided the equipment is installed and they have a backhaul to a POP. Most do. Digging up and laying down a loop might cost you a small fortune though. | |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Yes there are T-5 lines and there are T-8 lines but no one uses them. To much money per month why you dont here about them. | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA |  Re: Article
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Televideo ergo sum.....I watch TV, therefore I am. | |
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| | | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Article I have never seen them on provider charts at all. But I will try and find their country of origin they may be equivalent of ds links in europe.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Article Got it. It's just that I've been doing telecom and data for 23 years and would hate to find out I missed something along the way. And yes, a lot of countries outside the US use E circuits. A lot of fun when converting between the standards.
Thanx for the info  .
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Televideo ergo sum.....I watch TV, therefore I am. | |
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John Galt
What...me panic??
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
| Re: Article said by hayabusa3303 :Most cable head end uses between 10 to 50 T-1 lines at once. Its not profitable using t-3 lines too much money. I'm getting quoted $650 for a T-1 and $2250 for a T-3, plus loop.
That's more than 50 T-1's??
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Re: Article If i remember right our T-1 at work is only 300 a month.
Thanks for the info there John on that quote it has me puzzled if thats what they say more power to them.
2250 is a cheap price but how much is the loop or is that added in? | |
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John Galt
What...me panic??
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
| Re: Article said by hayabusa3303 :If i remember right our T-1 at work is only 300 a month. Thanks for the info there John on that quote it has me puzzled if thats what they say more power to them. 2250 is a cheap price but how much is the loop or is that added in? The loop is additional, based on distance.
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| | | | | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by John Galt :said by hayabusa3303 :Most cable head end uses between 10 to 50 T-1 lines at once. Its not profitable using t-3 lines too much money. I'm getting quoted $650 for a T-1 and $2250 for a T-3, plus loop. That's more than 50 T-1's?? Thats weird Today i installed 2 t-1 to a tower in central mass and a t-3 to western mass tower and the quotes and prices we got were much lower then that. t3 to a mountain tower was 2750 with local loop. and the t's as back up were 275
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Re: Article Different bells i think have different prices on the t-lines. | |
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| | | | | Hobyboyz
join:2005-02-18
Wauchula, FL | WOOOT I was just quoted from Sprint two weeks ago on a T1 for $650 a month...Where you get your prices I would love to know.. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | For a lot of businesses T-1 is all about the SLA not the speed. | |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs: | Re: Article But you can get an almost-comparable SLA with SDSL as you can with a T1, which often provides twice the bandwidth for the same cost.
KM | |
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SpitefulCrow
Insert Witty Tag Here
Premium
join:2003-06-04
Berkeley, CA
| Fios is not a symmetric architecture. The PON system that Verizon is building provides 622Mbps downstream and 155 Mbps (I think those are the numbers, someone correct if I'm a bit off) upstream per line card in the CO.
Fios is also not designed for businesses. IIRC, not even the $200 30/5 package comes with an SLA. | |
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pwn2009
Powdered Toast Man
Premium
join:2004-03-20
ComeByChance | You get what you pay for...Bell Sympatico offers 4 levels of DSL service, where uploads range from 96kbps upto 800kbps, with a price increase with each tier. So you pay for what you get. makes sense to me. | |
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA | i got 6mb down 608 up | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| lots of corperate T-1 users also dont devote all 24 channels( think this is right for a T-1, been awhile) to data as lots of T lines also carry the POTs service for the building.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska
| Yes, More Upload I have been complaining about this every time there has been an increase in speed. I have gone through 2 download speed increases since I have started using Time Warner's network, and not one of those times included an increase in upload speed. 
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Japanese scientists have created a camera with such a fast shutter speed, they now can photograph a woman with her mouth shut. | |
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See 17 replies to this post |
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vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD | bout time bout time | |
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lotsoreasons
| Its lots of reasons Well, its actually lots of reasons..
upstream costs $$ more money for lots of reasons:
Think about these:
1.piracy creates legal liability for companies providing bandwidth.
2. voip lines are capable with each 64kbit channel upstream.
3. video starts at 512kbit and up (bye bye cable company revenue)
4. busineses need to send data over networks fast around the globe., so get as much$$ as you can (ie rip them off)
5. backbone providers get in on the action and charge more for upstream "SENDING" of data and opposed to receiving of data over networks in a context of the information your requesting is worh more to the receiver, than the sender but charge the sender for more speed per sec. (somebodies got to pay for those balmy 60 degree, F sever rooms, fiber optic cabling, tech gurus with the big beamers, etc, etc,)
It all spells Money, Money, Money, Mon-ay!
Eventually the costs will be passed on to the consumers and no deployment war will ensue, until there's a complete overhaul and SURPLUS of bandwidth (of LIT fiber, unlit fiber doesn't earn money) | |
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shellenberg
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Salmo, BC | Re: Its lots of reasons And one more thing: Most ISPs also sell (rather expensive) server hosting packages. | |
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TheOnerf
join:2003-05-30
Arlington, TX
| More upload! i wish verizon FIOS came to me area.....its on a city right next to mine(i live in arlington, irving has FIOS but arlington which is next to it and in same metroplex still not gettin FIOS), i also have a friend who has been waitin for FIOS to show up so we can have lan parties with some sort of internet,lol. | |
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cablebob
join:2005-06-13
Bellingham, WA
| Im happy with my 1.5 down 896k up. since it is almost symmetrical, it makes for a good experience for surfing, downloading and uploading. of course i would like more speed, who wouldn't, i am happy with what i pay ( i work for a telco so i get a good price) | |
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| bored_in_nh
join:2003-01-04
Stamping Ground, KY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Im happy Like mine sort of.
From speedtest.chartmi.net:
running 10s outbound test (upload) . . . . . 906.41Kb/s
running 10s inbound test (download) . . . . . . 1.08Mb/s
I used to complain about my download, but my upload is sweet. Let me tell you, it's sweet to have dload and uload close like this.
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Honor Indian Treaties | |
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VanBuren
join:2004-01-20
Sweden
| Re: Im happy said by bored_in_nh :Let me tell you, it's sweet to have dload and uload close like this. yea its sweet
This is what i got @ home
TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.3.3a
click START to begin
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client to server) . . . . . 84.58Mb/s
running 10s inbound test (server to client) . . . . . . 87.80Mb/s
The slowest link in the end-to-end path is a 100 Mbps Full duplex Fast Ethernet subnet
click START to re-test
VanBuren | |
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Evil_Icon
Digital Pimp
join:2003-02-24
Bossier City, LA | ! and not to mention online gaming...
which is growing by leap and bounds
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More upload please! | |
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Jan Janowski
join:2000-06-18
Skokie, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| More UPLOAD PLEASE! 2 years ago I got in a big arguement on the Ameritech Forum when I said the "Suitcase" that SBC/Ameritech was useless because it was limited to 10Mb uploads...
I wanted to share a 33Mb Movie I made... And couldn't!!
That was 2 years ago... Now I'm talking Gigabytes!!!
Still limited to 10Mb uploads by SBC... Even IF I had an unlimited Sized and unlimited upload "Suitcase" I still can't upload them in a timely fashion, cause in two years my files have gone from MB to GB in size!!!
Just think what it will be in 2 more years????? !!!!!
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Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | Right on "More Upstream Bandwidth, Please"
That's what I am screaming! | |
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rrz103
RichardZ
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Canton, MI
| Comcast Resists I've complained to my ISP, Comcast, about how poor my upload stream is. Supposedly it should be something like 256 or higher. Every speed test I do it's somewhere around 80-120. As soon as naked DSL becomes a reality or some other feasible option appears I'm ditching Comcast even if it means slower download speeds. I'd rather have some practical balance in my broadband than hype of download. Damn you Comcast.
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Rich Z - »www.richardz.com | |
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grumpygeek
join:2004-12-14
Houston, TX
| Higher upstreams are available, if you want to pay SBC and RR both offer higher upload speeds, at a cost.
Problem is, when p2p software became common, you get about 5% of your customers who run 100% upload 24 hours a day. The nature of their usage makes them more sensitive to even brief outages during normal maintenance hours.
Wholesale bandwidth also costs money. A big ISP can get down into the $100/mb range. So if you're selling a customer 1mb of bandwidth for $50 a month, and it's costing you $100 a month....
Long story short, you can have upload caps, or you can have restricted bandwidth, or you can pay for the level of service you want.
Of course, RR has to be feeling some heat from SBC's $14.99/month DSL offer, and upping standard customers to 5down/768up would be a good way to demonstrate the advantage of staying with the more expensive service that RR offers *HINT HINT HINT* | |
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jonez
Got Anime?
Premium
join:2004-09-24
Stow, MA |  comcast
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when will the madness end | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: comcast said by jonez :it's funny how comcast seems to skip over any sort of threads having to do with this...especially when I had comcast and posted in the forums, they even locked one of my threads about more upstream. Man, that Comcast is ONE powerful company - they locked a thread HERE to stop you from talking about them? | |
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Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN
1 edit | Worms and spam Part of the problem is the burden that ISP's will have. Getting a remote computer to try and max your inbound 5 megs is VERY difficult. However, a botted computer that is pooled into a remotely controlled spam, ddos, whatever botnet will easily run a 2 meg outbound to its limits for as long as negligence allows.
Using your full download capacity nonstop: Tough
Using you upload bc of bot,p2p,hosting: Easy
Again coming back to commercial lines, a business that is paying much more for a top quality connection is much more likely to notice un-authorized activity that is cutting into their pricey bandwidth, whereas the Jones will basically notice that the internet either works or does not. | |
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thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
| 768 for $30? Yes, 88 KBps up for $30.
Did I mention the free usenet with ten day retention in many good groups?
Join the Verizon side, you know you want to.  | |
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
| 3M / 768K for $39.95 at Verizon Especially for digital photo uploads.
Client was using AOL DSL at 768K / 128K.
AOL DSL is being terminated, as each existing contract w/RBOC expires.
Now switching to Verizon Business DSL at 3M / 768K.
(Looking forward to FiOS at 5M / 2M)
»www22.verizon.com/ForBusinessDSL···ces.asp?
"Basic" package is $39.95 per month.
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Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill | |
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severach
join:2002-09-12
Jackson, MI
| Imagine Imagine a network where everyone has infinite incomming and zero outgoing. It's free because it requires no infrastructure yet you can advertize great incomming bandwidth speeds. A small increase in outgoing bandwidth requires a large increase in the infrastructure to carry and deliver the potential load.
There is no money in providing download bandwith to consumers. There's lots of money providing bandwidth to server operators. Every byte received was sent from somewhere. The server operators have money so end up paying most of the infrastructure costs.
The infrastructure builds slowly so the outgoing bandwidth creeps up slowly as well. Because of the inefficiencies in any large network, it would cease to function if everyone were given symmetric speeds. The total bytes/sec for all the transmitters must be substantially less than the total bytes/sec for all the receivers or nothing will get through. | |
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John Galt
What...me panic??
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
| Re: Imagine said by severach :Imagine a network where everyone has infinite incomming and zero outgoing. It's free because it requires no infrastructure yet you can advertize great incomming bandwidth speeds. A small increase in outgoing bandwidth requires a large increase in the infrastructure to carry and deliver the potential load. There is no money in providing download bandwith to consumers. There's lots of money providing bandwidth to server operators. Every byte received was sent from somewhere. The server operators have money so end up paying most of the infrastructure costs. The infrastructure builds slowly so the outgoing bandwidth creeps up slowly as well. Because of the inefficiencies in any large network, it would cease to function if everyone were given symmetric speeds. The total bytes/sec for all the transmitters must be substantially less than the total bytes/sec for all the receivers or nothing will get through. Really...it's FREE??!!
wow...
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HaizmanBrain
join:2001-04-23
San Diego, CA
| Upload is the only card ISP's have left to play... In the early years of Cable modems (late 90's), Time Warner and Cox both would site line saturation as a reason why uploads were capped.
I'm not sure what happened (Docsis standards?) but OOL is offering a 20/2 tier - along with their existing high bandwidth offerings.
I once had a SDSL 1.5/1.5 line at home until Northpoint went belly up. I loved being able to host files for family members. Those days are long gone. I think newer ADSL standards allow for higher uploads - hopefully that time is sooner as there is no reason for them not to increase upload speeds (except to control pricing levels). | |
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bac522
join:2003-08-04
Manchester, NH
| This is were DSL can beat Cable Ironically this is where the DSL providers could crush the Cable providers since copper phone lines can support upstreams rates at the same speed as downstream rates. Cable Companies are limited by the upstream channel which is capped by all the Distribution Amps and Line Extenders installed today. There isn't one cable company around that is about to go replacing all that equipment just to provide customers with fast upstream rates. Initially the upstream frequency on cable plants was designed to be a side band management frequency for line equipment. They got lucky in the fact that they were able to take advantage of it for broadband, but major, major plant upgrades would have to take place to increase that speed. | |
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kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Lancaster, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
 ·Dreamhost
| the option of higher upload should be offered I have I believe the best cable speed on the west coast when it comes to upstream, around 900KBPs. I have the highest tier available at 7MBPs downstream and 900KBPS upstream. The basic level I could get is 256KBPS down and 256KBPS up. So the difference in upstream speed betwwen the basic and premier teers is just about 3 and a half times faster upstream, yet the downstream difference between basic's 256KBPS and premier's 7MBPS, is an amazing 28 times faster if my calculations are correct! At the very least we should have more symetrical speeds for those wanting more upstream. Something like 3MBPs/3MBPS or 1.5MBPS/1.5MBPS should be an option. We have the downstream capability for fairly high quality streaming video and yet our upstream which should have the potential for multiconferencing for voice chat or sending high quality video, doesn't because I guess the cable and DSL providers are afraid to actually let us send content and they only want us to receive it! I'm even happy with 3MBPS downstream, but let's increase the upstream to at least greater than 1MBPS! I'd love to at least see the upstream be half the downstream. It's sad that road runner gives you a nice 8mBPS download but the upload still sucks at 512k! Get with it ISPs and give us upload and download! | |
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got2u
| only BPL can give you the fastest upload ... same upload and download broadband speed that BPL could offer but not with DSL or Cable ! | |
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More Upstream Bandwidth, Please
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Re: Higher upstreams are available, if you want to pay