 
Italia3
Sweet, Succulent, Satisfying
Premium
join:2005-06-14
N.W. TN
| Interesting..... Probably b/c consumers does not consider this a wave of the future due to lack of speed. Or perhaps it is not widely advertised. It is a new concept to me. You just don't hear much of BPL. It makes sense since the powerlines are already installed. It is making more use out of something that already exists.  | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Re: Interesting..... Google..
Why did you invest in BPL..
Ok well i guess you are allowed one mistake.. | |
| | | 
ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE | Re: Interesting..... Ok well i guess you are allowed can afford one mistake.. | |
| | | | 
bplnow
| Re: Interesting...why some big companies like BPL re: A New Outlet for Broadband
By Eric Hellweg July 18, 2005
As several companies conduct experiments using electrical wiring in the home to provide broadband Internet access, the phrase "plugged in" may take on a whole new meaning.
Currently, most power lines are "dumb" conduits, used to transfer electric current. But they're actually capable of carrying data as well. Therein lies the excitement behind the emerging field of broadband over power lines, or BPL.
Last week, Houston, Texas-based energy company CenterPoint and IBM announced a trial run that will provide BPL service to 220 homes in the greater Houston area. And two weeks ago Current Communications Group, a Maryland-based company offering broadband over power lines, announced that it had secured $100 million in venture financing from Google, Hearst, and Goldman Sachs. Meanwhile, other BPL trials are currently underway in Manhattan, Cincinnati, and parts of North Carolina.
So, in the wake of the Supreme Court's recent decision that cable companies don't have to share their lines with other ISPs (the "BrandX Decision"), consumers around the country may soon have a third choice (in addition to cable and DSL) for getting broadband.
BPL technology has been in the works for more than five years, but several factors have come together recently to speed up its commercial viability. In October 2004, the Federal Communications Commission announced its support for standards for the technology -- an important step. Also, several states, including Texas and California, are developing their own legislation to iron out remaining regulatory issues among utilities and BPL.
Meanwhile, on the technology side, increases in chip speed have combined with cost reductions for key components, such as adapters and chips, to pave the way for more economical deployments of the technology.
"We've been chomping at the bit with BPL," says Ray Blair, vice president of IBM's BPL initiatives. "Now we can run."
Others are also enthusiastic. "We're finally seeing the pieces are all in place," says Kevin Brand, vice president of product management for Earthlink. The Internet provider currently has several small BPL trials around the country and Brand says subscriber feedback so far has been "very positive."
It's not just Internet providers and their consumers who could benefit from BPL. Utility companies themselves are bullish on it.
"We're looking to take our grid into the 21st century," says Don Cortez, vice president of operations support at Houston-based CenterPoint Energy. "BPL gives us the possibility of monitoring the different points on the grid and letting us know well before something happens if something is wrong. Right now we have no way to see what's going on."
With BPL, utilities can monitor line usage and problems, as well as read meters without dispatching a technician.
On the consumer side, BPL offers some potential advantages over broadband alternatives. For one, customers could use the technology to turn down air conditioning or make sure the coffee pot is off while they're away from home.
"When every power outlet becomes a communications tool, you can have that kind of intelligence in every room," says Cortez. CenterPoint will decide what type of commercial roll-out to offer its customers by September, according to Cortez.
BPL technology also provides a broadband option that may be simpler and faster. Current Communications Group has a BPL-based program running in Cincinnati, with subscribers "in the thousands," according to Kevin Kushman, CCG vice president of corporate development.
The company offers a three-megabit-per-second broadband package, comparable to many cable-based broadband offerings, for $35 per month. It's not price that Current is competing on, though, says Kushman, but the fact that, with BPL, the uploading speed is the same as the downloading speed, around 3 megabits per second.
In other broadband mediums, the upstream speed can be considerably slower than downstream. Further, Kushman says their BPL customers like not having to deal with a router. The company gives subscribers one free adapter with the service, and sells additional adapters for $30 each.
Wes Warnock, a spokesperson for SBC Communications, the largest telephone-line-based broadband provider in the country, won't comment on the IBM/CenterPoint trial, but says that SBC's consumers are satisfied with the 416 K bits per second upstream speed of DSL. "Our feedback shows it serves them well," he says.
Meanwhile, other companies are plugging away. "We're close to seeing large-scale deployments of BPL," says Earthlink's Brand.
Eric Hellweg is an award-winning writer and editor who has covered business and technology for over 10 years. | |
| | 
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by Italia3  :Probably b/c consumers does not consider this a wave of the future due to lack of speed. Or perhaps it is not widely advertised. It is a new concept to me. You just don't hear much of BPL. It makes sense since the powerlines are already installed. It is making more use out of something that already exists. It may make sense since the powerlines are already installed, but the powerline itself is a small portion of what is needed. You need feedpoint equipment to feed the signal into the lines, repeaters to regenerate the signal, and way to get the traffic back to the Internet such as fiber or telco facilities. BPL has more severe distance limitations than cable and dsl. While the thought of power lines everywhere would make one think BPL could be everywhere, it isn't like having a real broadband medium like fiber, coax, or twisted pair.
You don't hear much of BPL because the most press it gets is when an equipment manufacturer makes a press release. When news comes out, like the recent San Diego BPL system, it's usually a small trial and not a commercial rollout. Ironically the interference issues with BPL have created alot of press.
BPL has been in testing and development as long as cable and dsl have been in production. But the physical medium BPL uses has more limitations that both cable and dsl. If it weren't for the ubiquity of power lines, BPL would have been written off years ago, but as I mention above the prevalence of power lines gives BPL a perceived advantage that is false and misleading. | |
| | | 
sabersaw
Premium
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH | Re: HaMs are now Safe! It was never a viable solution to begin with. But yes, it is a good thing not to pollute fragile RF spectrum. | |
| | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| said by P Ness :LOL...guess the .00005% of the people who use HAMS radio's and other radio signals that were interfered with are now safe...lucky you guys. Need to do a bit more research. I did a search for all the active registered hams in my town of about 62000 people, about 263. 0.4% is just a 'tiny' bit more than the percent you quote. That is just Hams, who comprise a small fraction of the myriad other private and public licensed radio operators.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by P Ness :LOL...guess the .00005% of the people who use HAMS radio's and other radio signals that were interfered with are now safe...lucky you guys. Again, it is not just HAM radio that gets interfered with.
said by P Ness :Unlucky = those who cannot get broadband Some people choose to live in certain areas and those areas don't have broadband for a myriad of reasons.
said by P Ness :Unlucky= those who get high priced broadband with no competition. This happens with or without BPL.
said by P Ness :Guess its a good thing this did not work right?  Actually, it is a good thing it is failing. Thanks for playing.  | |
| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: HaMs are now Safe! MP - nice one liners.. now, can you post reasons why for your comments?
Who else, other than Ham radio operators...
Why is it a good thing it's failing......
You are good for this type of post but you really offer nothing when you do this other than a simple opinion and we all know people have one. | |
| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: HaMs are now Safe! Sure, I can post responses. BUT will you even read them?
Seems most of the pro BPL crowd do nothing but yell about the benefits of a new medium to deliver high speed access but fail to recognize the problems with this particular technology.
So let's dive into to my comments:
quote:
Again, it is not just HAM radio that gets interfered with.
This is a fact. BPL (with the possible exception of the Corridor System) does pollute the frequencies used not only by Ham Radio but by other commercial and military entities. Even the FCC mandates that BPL systems may not be located close to certain military locations. Amateur Radio uses only 4Mhz total bandwidth under 30MHz.
Notching can only hide the problem so much. While one user may be safe, others will suffer.
quote:
Some people choose to live in certain areas and those areas don't have broadband for a myriad of reasons.
Fact is some people prefer to live in certain areas and, in fact, there was a huge discussion on here about the availability of broadband in general (no just BPL.) Cities will get it first followed by areas with a high density of those likely to get it.
quote:
quote:
Unlucky= those who get high priced broadband with no competition.
This happens with or without BPL.
Again, how many times do we still see areas with just one provider and all those "franchise agreements" that won't let anyone else in? What about phone companies that won't upgrade COs because cable is already there?
Even with the price drops of DSL, cable has not lowered their rates at all. Cable is upgrading the speed, Verizon is going to FIOS, and others are looking into faster forms of DSL. I doubt BPL can catch up PLUS (much to my disappointment) there won't be a cheaper, lower speed tier for casual users (email checking, web browsing, non-geek crowd.) | |
| | | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Fiberguy, with all due respect Moon Puppy has provided many salient details and responses regarding BPL in many other BPL based threads. Like you, he has been an active member of these discussions/debates, although on different sides of the issue.
If anything, it has been many of the BPL advocates that have made baseless and emotional claims devoid and evasive of the facts.
Although on opposite sides of the spectrum (pun intended!), I enjoy reading/disagreeing with your opinions since you are not a BPL troll.
Be well,
Rob
said by fiberguy :MP - nice one liners.. now, can you post reasons why for your comments? | |
| 
clickwir
join:2001-06-21
Dickson City, PA | I know why! It's really very simple. If it's not fiber, people don't care! I know I don't. | |
| | 
Blasterbator
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Jackson, MS
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: I know why! Who cares what kind of wire is used to deliver the service?
If someone can figure out how to deliver a competitive, reliable service that doesn't muck up my HAM radio, who cares if they do it over barbed copper, cable, fiber or even barbed wire?
I just don't see myself spanking it to a piece of fiber optic cable sticking out of my wall (or any type of wire for that matter). | |
| | | 
war_by_proxy
join:2004-06-15
Houston, TX | Re: I know why! You may have a problem. No one cares if they muck up your ham radio (meaning everybody)  | |
| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I know why! said by war_by_proxy :You may have a problem. No one cares if they muck up your ham radio (meaning everybody) That's o.k. Nobody cares about you. | |
| | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| said by war_by_proxy :You may have a problem. No one cares if they muck up your ham radio (meaning everybody) I think I see your confusion: _your_ lack of knowledge of the utility of the entire HF and low VHF spectrum (that chunk from 2 - 80 MHz that would be affected by wide deployment of certain implementations BPL) has led you to an incorrect conclusion. Please research further before attempting to join in the debate on the merits or otherwise of BPL or your posts will likely be discounted.:) | |
| gmoney_indy
join:2004-01-29
Fishers, IN
·Insight Communicat..
| Has to get cheaper They will have to make the service cheaper to create interest. It is currently not a great deal compared to cable/DSL when you look at the dollars per Mbps. I would really love to see this service take off though. More competition/choice is always a good thing for the consumer.
Pricing:
»www.current.net/ServiceAndPricin···enefits/ | |
| | xirian
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY | Re: Has to get cheaper those prices look pretty much ok to me. | |
| | | gmoney_indy
join:2004-01-29
Fishers, IN
·Insight Communicat..
| Re: Has to get cheaper I didn't notice the 3mbps upstream speed. If thats the case, then I'd agree that it's not a bad deal. And, I'd even be interested in dropping Comcast to have that much UL speed.
However, we are not the average consumer base here at BBR. Most Avg. Joe's don't have any concept of upload speed nor understand why having more is a good thing. So, if they can get 1.5-3.0Mbps (dl) DSL for $24.95/mo they are probably gonna go with that (Or even 1.5Mb DSL for $14.95/mo if they're close enough to the CO).
I'm paying $42.95/mo for Comcast HSI that will be going to 6Mb DL speed shortly. | |
| |
Blasterbator
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Jackson, MS | 3 MBPS Synchronous for $39.95 and a free modem... sounds pretty reasonable to me. | |
| | | DONKEYKONG01
join:2003-03-21
Metairie, LA
| Re: Has to get cheaper said by Blasterbator :3 MBPS Synchronous for $39.95 and a free modem... sounds pretty reasonable to me. but but but but but but but buttttttt.... it cannot compete with dsl or cable soit's just a waste of resource and investment. | |
| | | | 
Doctor Dan
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Papiopolis
 ·inmotionhosting
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Has to get cheaper What about markets where there is no competition, e.g. rural areas where the Telcos aren't interested in deploying RTs and the Cablecos have no intention of ever offering service. In these areas, the "choices" are either dial-up or satellite, and neither will provide customers with 3 Mbps synchronous service.
- Dan
--
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." | |
| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Re: Has to get cheaper The rural argument has been tried and failed.
With the infrastructure needed to make BPL work, there will be no return on investment for the few people that would get it.
It is NOT as easy as plugging in a modem to an AC outlet. | |
| | | | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| The problem with rural deployment is that BPL does not propagate forever down the wires. It is not economical to send DSL or cable modems down miles of line because the broadband signal needs to be amplified every few miles. With BPL, that distance is 2000 feet, so to send BPL for miles either requires a non-BPL backbone, or a large number of repeaters. BPL could be made to work in a rural community, but so could DSL or cable. In general, broadband has gone where it is economical to do so, and with BPL, the infrastructure is not already in place -- all those amplifiers, repeater and couplers need to be installed. Generally, the BPL systems I have seen (13 and counting now) run fiber to a neighborhood and then BPL on the overhead primary lines, then onto the secondary lines feeding homes or businesses. ARRL has been concerned with BPL interference, and it can be extremely strong across tens of MHz of HF and low VHF. Fortunately, at this point, Motorola, Current Technologies, IBEC and Corridor Systems all have BPL designs that don't use spectrum allocated to the Amateur Radio Service. Current is the most widely deployed, and their design choice is a significant reason for their success. Motorola has the design that appears to be the most EMC friendly to amateur radio, and they will soon be nipping at the heels of the others, I would think. Even so, those systems operating at the FCC limit will cause local interference to other HF spectrum users, such as international shortwave broadcast. ARRL's information on BPL is at »www.arrl.org/bpl. Ed Hare, W1RFI@arrl.org, ARRL Lab | |
| 
sbhusted
join:2000-05-14
Bethlehem, PA
·PenTeleData
| PPL It is available where I'm at, I'm just not in the market. I did try it out a year ago at a demo, and it seemed to work pretty well with very solid pings to the servers I tested. Thats not a 'testimonial' or 'referral', just a statement.
»www.pplbroadband.com/
--
Scott B. Hustedhttp://www.Husted.cc | |
| kdandaoc
join:2003-10-13
608052427 | competition Any competition against the major players im the broadband market would benefit the consumer. Seems to me whoever, that there is a concerted effort against this particulur medium, which in my opinion, makes me want to take a closer look at it. | |
| | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: competition Any competition regardless of the attributes of the competing candidate technology?
You're prepared to accept any solution vs a well-conceived, well-engineered solution?
There are voices speaking out in opposition to BPL with good reason; I suggest dilligent research before embracing this candidate competitor. | |
| 
chrissy460
Premium
join:2005-06-24
97220-5013 | Competition will pan out Technologies come and go. BPL may work, it may not. From what I have seen I will gladly stay with my DSL. I want more speed because I can have it. No other good reason. Who ever give me the most bang for my buck will most likely see my dollars. | |
| RuralTech
join:2006-01-27
Julian, CA
| Rural User Paradigm Shift... This is not meant to be an authoritative post, but I can imagine that the shape of society, and demographic layouts would change dramatically if broadband became available in rural areas. This would bring so many current uninformed users to the table.
There are a myriad of areas that you could project change. Imagine the futures markets affected by farmers giving real-time updates about crop status'. Or imagine how many more people, jobs, companies would relocate to unincorporated areas. It really would change the face of society in a tangible way, to have true broadband in rural areas.
This is great!
Metro clutter would spread out to the country, and cause currently small cowpoke tows to begin expanding at an attractive rate for Real Estate investment. Land values increase. I don't think the technology is anything phenominal, but getting real solid internet to rural areas would have a sincere effect on where most people choose to live.
Really, most large cities started as rural areas at some point in history, it was just trade lines, travel routes, and postal delivery that caused it to expand. I have lived this first hand. I grew up in a rural town with a population of a little under 2000 people. A town about 22 miles away was about 15000 people. Just in the last ten years, with at least reasonable costing dial-up, and some other franchise spread (Subway, Dairy Queen), it has exploded to nearly 12000 population.
And that nearby town, that used to only have a mom and pop grocery store chain, and couple of gas stations? Well now it is at nearly 100000 population, and has a Walmart, a Sears, a Dennys, 3 major name grocery stores, and is now looking like the next biggest town nearby did 15 years ago.
I know it is not really in the PowerCo's best interest to get Broadband internet to the rural areas, but I am totally excited at what opportunities that would present to a self-employed software engineer, and business automation consultant. Many businesses that still use a tried and true cash register, or even the old hardware store that uses a calculator and a paper invoice to sell, could move up to mini-Home-Depot status. The internet would not only bring connectivity, but it also brings people into the age where everything begins to get upgraded. Good money for us Tech-Related rural entrepreneurs.
I know some hicks really hate the killing of Ham by the standard technologies involved in BPL, but I am curious why Corridor Systems Inc. (www.corridor.biz) is not getting more press. Their technology puts out much less peripheral noise than a WiFi. To the tune of -10dbi compared to 20dbi of Wireless LANs. I guess its just a matter of time. The ramifications are profound, and joking aside, could very easily reignite a new technosocial age of innovation.
Again, the technology is not gigabit, only 216 megabit max so far, but that doesn't matter if its not used to connect major cities, but rather used to connect less densly populated rural and sparse sub-urban zones. I think it has a place, and certainly a future. For the big pipes, fiber is the way to go, no contest, but for local rural outreach powerline to the tune of Corridor System's model, cannot be touched.
That is just my take! Any guys from Corridor reading this, I certainly would like to talk to you! I have a test market that would love to get hooked up. Literally 1000+ people that would use the service. | |
| RuralTech
join:2006-01-27
Julian, CA
| Addendum I forgot I don't think BPL is worth exploring for large cities, metro, or anything within 15 miles of COs. Since that area is already well covered by technologies that are sufficiently fast. The only real change I can see is needed in those areas is an increase in the upload speeds without such lame jumps in price, but I also think WiMax for cities is perfectly do-able. Verizon is already a good proof of concept on that one. Though you still can't beat the low latency of a wired connection.
I think even though the market is small, BPL as per Corridor's technology, would be good to get out to rural areas until the market is big enough to attract big money fiber-pipe layers to the scene. Then powerco's expand to the next rural area that is created by the expansion.
We live in interesting times, but then each generation says that. | |
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BPL: Under 0.5 Percent of Broadband Market
