 
ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Both Right About 14% of us are aware of things like speed and it's value. The rest care mostly about price.
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When Clinton lied -- no one died. | |
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 | cool_coda
join:2004-09-08
Brownsburg, IN
| Re: Both Right I am a big geek and love to dl stuff like the rest. But I made the jump from RoadRunner to SBC to save $20 a month.
$20 was much more important to me than download speed, and bonus for me is that my upload actually went up. Which is much more important to the likes that do a lot of picture uploading and such to sites. | |
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MikegotOOL
join:2001-01-21
East Setauket, NY
clubs: | Re: Both Right If I could get DSL or FIOS I would. | |
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
| Once "fast enough", $$$ count Speed is lovely.
But, once "fast enough", the additional speed is pointless.
We started our lovely new FiOS at 5M, to get the "feel".
After a couple of months, tried 15M for a week.
Couldn't really tell the difference.
So downgraded back to 5M.
Spend an extra $10 / month for a feature that we are unable to appreciate?
This includes my teenagers and their VoIP and Xbox internet games. Just can't tell.
In the future, there will almost certainly be new applications needing 10's or 100's of Mbits/second. But for now, "fast enough" speed, for us, is somewhere in the 3+ Mbit / sec range.
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Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill | |
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| | | | HawkI911
join:2002-04-08
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Once "fast enough", $$$ count "Speed is lovely.
But, once "fast enough", the additional speed is pointless."
true dat....
I used to have 1.5mbps DSL, 3.0 mbps cable, 10 mbps college ethernet, and now an OC192 at work. Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between any of them while surfing the internet. Yes, the OC192 is by far the best for downloading files, but since I rarely do that, 1.5mbps is certainly fast enough for me.
at the moment, nobody here can make a legitimate claim that they need 30 mbps for the home through FIOS. It'll be nice once everything like streaming HDTV, VOD and all that crap comes out, but that won't be for a while. | |
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wormsinapples
| Well, heres the deal.. cablemodems as of late have been becoming like apples with worms in them, in terms of speed caps, outages, blocked websties, etc. So, sometimes a good thing is not always a good thing and delivered as advertised. And if the consumers bend over and take it, there's no incentive to improve... so switch providers, it makes sense and saves money. | |
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Mis-Guided
| This really makes the public wonder what the genius's at the top of corporate america are smoking during thier execuitive meetings...
Who do they think they are kidding??? | |
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA | Re: Both Right They are kidding themselves. I just received a nice surprise on my cable bill. A $4/month increase.
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fRiTz+Nomad+ -- N|fRiTz | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Both Right Exactly. Stability. Latency. Load Balancing. Routing. Uptime. Support. These are the things to check for if you want quality. An 8Mb pipe is useless if it's taking 40+ hops to just get your email. Same goes for that "reliable" DSL line. Every ISP handles these things differently. The delivery format (cable, DSL, wireless, etc) should be less of a focus than these other factors if you really want a good connection.
A crazy example, but back in the day of early, EARLY DSL and ISDN I would find a good dialup service to actual beat out higher bandwidth in regards to getting websites loaded faster. | |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Both Right
Exactly. Stability. Latency. Load Balancing. Routing. Uptime. Support.
You got it right.
Over the last year, my cable modem has been more trouble free, lower latency and faster than any of the DSL lines I have had to date (US West, Sprint ION, Qwest and Covad).
So in my experience, this modern generation of cable modem has scored high in all categories and I have no complaints.
To be honest, cable modems seem to have become rather boring really, they just work, no tweaking or begging the support tech to set you to "fast-path" or any such thing.
I do remember how bad cable modems got back in the late 90s, my first cable modem got to be a nightmare on the evening and weekends during peak usage. | |
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mckenna797
join:2004-08-25
Astoria, NY | Re: Both Right my Cable connection via time warner road runner NYC is far superior to what i got with Verizon DSL, and I also use TW digital phone and DTV, | |
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| | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| said by Nightfall  :Most broadbandreports users care about something else that hasn't been discussed. Stability You know, my initial inclination was to scoff, but reading your and SRFireside's posts I realize you're right. I would prefer cable over DSL even if DSL were twice as fast, simply because it's nearly always a frickn' nightmare getting DSL installed and keeping it running. As it is cable costs much more. But it's worth it. (In Verizonland at least.)
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: Both Right said by B :said by Nightfall :Most broadbandreports users care about something else that hasn't been discussed. Stability You know, my initial inclination was to scoff, but reading your and SRFireside's posts I realize you're right. I would prefer cable over DSL even if DSL were twice as fast, simply because it's nearly always a frickn' nightmare getting DSL installed and keeping it running. As it is cable costs much more. But it's worth it. (In Verizonland at least.) Likewise, but I prefer DSL over cable for the same reasons. Sure it costs a bit more, but in my 3.5 years with my ISP I have had one yes ONE outage that was on their end, and that was fixed within 8 hours.
In the meantime, CC and other cable ISPs have "lowered" their cost or raised the speed for their services, but I really don't need much faster d/l, I like my low latency, I like having static IPs and I really enjoy not having any bandwidth caps.
Sometimes you get what you pay for. 
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Copyright infringement is illegal. Murder is illegal. Therefore, file sharing is murder. | |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| quote:
Most broadbandreports users care about something else that hasn't been discussed.
Stability
Nail, meet head!! Comcast is offering faster speeds at comparable prices to my DSLExtreme connection, but cable, while fairly reliable, was nowhere near as stable as my DSLX circuit. I'm willing to sacrifice 20% of speed to get vastly better stability and static IP addresses.
Judging from what I've seen from cable customers in my area, Comcast has had a couple of multi-month long evening latency issues over the last couple years since switching. It was a situation like that which caused me to switch in the first place. Comcast does eventually resolve the problems, but they are not pro-active enough and it takes them too long.
I also think Comcast is crazy if they think the majority of customers want more speed. I want to know who did this "study" and what sorts of people were polled. What did they do, poll Slashdot? From my perspective as a computer consultant, the majority of average joe computer users know that cable and DSL is a lot better and faster than dialup, but don't necessarily know the difference betwen 1.5mbps and 6mbps. They certainly want it to be reliable, and they would definitely like to see lower bills.
If more speed is what Comcast beleives customers want, that's fine with me, though. As a geek I DO want more speed, and if Comcast and Verizon are raising the bar, it just benefits me in the end, even if I don't necessarily agree it's what "most" customers want.
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\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network | |
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| | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Both Right
Again, because they KNOW most customers won't use all the bandwidth (even BitTorrenting) it's almost trivial for the cablecos to crank it up near 10 Mbps and brag about speed, simply because they've already got coax and equipment capable of supporting it; the current 2, 3, 5, and 6 Mbps limits are completely artificial.
In short, they're basically blowing smoke and doing as little as possible. Not that I particularly blame them. DSL technology is just really stinky in the real world.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| ebiebi
join:2003-08-13
Albuquerque, NM
| said by ronpin :About 14% of us are aware of things like speed and it's value. The rest care mostly about price. I think Comcasts regular HSI prices are competitive for what you get. The problem is, they try to make you bundle their overpriced CATV service to get that price. Or else you pay a penalty. And now you will have to pay a second penalty to get the next upgrade if you don't sub to their crappy overpriced CATV. If CC would have just been happy to charge me the regular HSI rate I would have stayed with them.. But they wanted to penalize me at 58 dollars a month and they wanted 68 dollars to upgrade me this summer. I am on Quest DSL for 25 dollars a month now and it is rock solid and I could not be happier. I am saving 56% off my broadband now and for the most part, I cannot tell the difference for my usage. But my uploads are much faster now with DSL. | |
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| | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: Both Right quote:
The problem is, they try to make you bundle their overpriced CATV service to get that price. Or else you pay a penalty. And now you will have to pay a second penalty to get the next upgrade if you don't sub to their crappy overpriced CATV
Same with DSL. They require a crappy, overpriced landline service before they will talk to you. I have a Cell and VoIP, so no need for a landline.
If you want Dry DSL and can find a company to provide it, pay +$10-30 SURCHARGE for that. | |
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Boricua65
join:2002-01-26
Puerto Rico
| Re: Both Right said by itguy05 :
Same with DSL. They require a crappy, overpriced landline service before they will talk to you. I have a Cell and VoIP, so no need for a landline.
If you want Dry DSL and can find a company to provide it, pay +$10-30 SURCHARGE for that.
Even with the surcharge, it'll still be cheaper than cable. Also, what I did is change my landline to measured, so now it's only a little $5.00/month. I, too, have a cell phone as my regular phone, so now my total with cell, DSL and the landline should be around $65 a month. | |
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EL_TB
join:2003-05-03
Fairfax, VA | I wouldnt mind having my bill reduced! | |
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lazarus_
join:2002-08-31
Resolute, NU
1 edit | said by ronpin :About 14% of us are aware of things like speed and it's value. The rest care mostly about price. Umm.. Well lots of people have kids. Yes, the parents like a lower cost, but they rather have speed and stability over crappy speed (cause their kids tell them this). I still find this funny cause this is almost double talk on the side of Cable ISP's.. "You guys like speed, but we will cap you to a monthly limit.."
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Once you watch it, you can't un-watch it! | |
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| DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA | I obviously want part of their research. I'd glady give up 50% of my 10/1 connection for $20 bucks a month off. | |
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| | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Not Right Which really points out how everyone is really lying their corporate asses off. They'd save practically NOTHING by limiting you down to 5 Mbps, simply because the bandwidth they offer is SHARED, the allocations they make are based on predicted average use, and practically no one really uses (or is ALLOWED to use) all the bandwidth they think they're getting.
I doubt it's much more than a blip on the network usage charts when a broadband ISP changes its offering from 2 Mbps to 3 or 5 Mbps. (You 10 Mbps Optimum Online folks are just so privileged you make me sick anyway.  )
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
 ·AT&T Yahoo
Host:
Chicago
Users Find Hot Deals
Users find Hot Dea..
Requests for Hot D..
Home Repair & Impr..
2 edits | Speed is more than just a word It's not just a singular value, it's hop's, it's routes, it's latency, and upstream/downstream.
All this talk about 8mb is great, but when your latency is in the 100ms range because everybody's sucking bandwidth for torrents, then what good is it?
I'll take a slower download rate, if it comes with lower latency. Also, uptime is a huge factor.
Ever lose your broadband? You know what i'm talking about then....at least DSL comes with Dialup for free....what to do if you loose cable? | |
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Jovi
join:2000-02-24
Mount Joy, PA
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: Speed is more than just a word I think they need to address some network/latency issues before they throw more speed to choke everything up. Higher prices is easier to swallow down IF the connection is stable and consistent.
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OutKast Clan | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| said by Dennis :...what to do if you loose cable? Go outside and actually interface with the world.  | |
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DirtyMic
join:2003-11-19
Pompano Beach, FL | yes... money is not that importanat lol | |
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Scuba2
join:2004-01-13
Under da sea | Show Me the MONEY ! Show Me the MONEY ! (Fast) | |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
1 edit | You get what you pay for....hopefully. Comcast has me spoiled rotten.
Their speeds are as advertised, tv picture quality is excellent and their call center employees speak understandable English. If Comcast's current price structure is what it takes to continue to provide excellent service then so be it.
Edit: And my latency is just fine, despite what the telco shills would have you believe. | |
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| BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: You get what you pay for....hopefully. said by ib50MbSoon :Comcast has me spoiled rotten. Their speeds are as advertised, tv picture quality is excellent and their call center employees speak understandable English. If Comcast's current price structure is what it takes to continue to provide excellent service then so be it. Edit: And my latency is just fine, despite what the telco shills would have you believe. That is just your area not all. other areas have problems.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
·Verizon FIOS
| Don't agree Most users are idiots, they dont know anything about their cap, they just know it is faster than their dialup connection was.
Most people are probably more concerned about the cost.
Im sure me and most people in this forum would rather have the speed though
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foamy | I'm psycho | |
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Jesus_Freak
@adelphia.net | Re: Don't agree I agree I would have no problem paying more for higher speeds. I'm a gamer so the more speed the better. | |
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| | DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA | Re: Don't agree No, speed shouldnt be an issue, latency and stability should be. The bandwidth required to play online games is not all that high. | |
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Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC | Charter has them all beat. Charter has all the other Big Cable outfits beat hands down. Because they Scoff at both Price Cuts And Speed Upgrades.:D | |
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MicahPriddy
@atgi.net | Re: Charter has them all beat. You're absolutely right....(in depression mode) | |
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Duh! When you survey people who are buying an overpriced product, of course they're not concerned about the price. Otherwise, they wouldn't be purchasing the product in the first place. Duh!
Maybe the cable executives should be surveying the people who are not buying their overpriced products!
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"The President has set high standards... If anyone in this administration was involved in [the CIA leak], they would no longer be in this administration."
- Scott McClellan, September 29, 2003 | |
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garmst
join:2000-09-17
New York, NY | Everbody wants things for nothing I wish cars only cost $1,000.
I wish my rent was $100.
I wish a plane ticket was $25.
I wish college costed $500 a year.
I wish a ride in Soyuz costed $1,000.
I wish a decent diamond ring costed $50.
And it goes on...... | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: Everbody wants things for nothing said by garmst :I wish cars only cost $1,000. I wish my rent was $100. I wish a plane ticket was $25. I wish college costed $500 a year. I wish a ride in Soyuz costed $1,000. I wish a decent diamond ring costed $50. And it goes on...... If all those things were true your employer would only pay you about one dollar a day. | |
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Aaaron
@verizon.net
| Executive's wrong This executive is dead wrong. There's no realistic way most customers are going to pay the nearly extortionate rates charged by cable companies without thinking twice.
Comcast, for example, imposes a special monthly surcharge if you have the audacity to order their internet service without subscribing to cable TV too. That alone is good reason to decide on DSL, without even mentioning Comcast's reliability and service reputations...
IF you're in a DSL serviced area, and you can get good download speeds (e.g. 2-3+ mbps), the speed advantages of cable just do not stand up. Unless you're doing some kind of massive downloading, or can't accept an occasional half-second delay accessing a web address, DSL--even with some of its issues--offers solid service at an actually reasonable price. And when ADSL2+/VDSL start coming out, cable's price vs. speed problem will only get bigger. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| It's about value One's view of value varies and can even vary from moment to moment. But everyone is going to get what they want for a price that they think is good for the product (fair value).
I personally pay about $24 for 3.0/600 and think that is a good value. I could lower my cost for $10 by going with less speed or even increase my speed for $30 more, but the gain/lose in speed is not worth it to me.
The problem with cable companies is that as long as their prices are higher they are not going to be as attractive to people coming off dialup. Which is why DSL is catching up to them. I have "converted" many people I support from dailup to DSL. Simply because they pay almost the exact same as their dailup account and get more speed then they could of possibly ever imagined. | |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| comcast will resist as long as possible there will be no price cuts until there is meaningful competition. in a huge portion of cable markets (90%? 85%?) there is no real competition; in some markets, there is no broadband competition (like where I live).
If the FCC has it's way, we will have a duopoly of cable and telcos providing broadband in the U.S. Once broadband really becomes essential, like gasoline, people will pay whatever it takes and the cable and telcos will charge whatever the market can bear. | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Yes.... UPLOAD speed. I went from 2 Mbps to 3 Mbps to 5 Mbps within the last 2 years, but my upload stayed the same at a meager 384 kbps. I could care less if they decide to up the ante to 8 Mbps or 10 Mbps, there really isn't any content out there that would require such speeds.
But there are more and more applications (VOIP being one of them) that require a decent upload speed, and cable companies just dont seem to grasp that. I was promised Video Telephony by the year 2000, and there are excellent software packages out there to do it, but the bandwidth is lacking.
I don't care about download speeds at this moment, its upload that I want.
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And i'm right. I'm always right, but this time I'm a little more right then I usually am. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Executive is Dead Right Cable has no incentive to lower prices because of two big reasons:
•They are already cheaper than DSL + phone service.
•You can actually get cable internet, unlike DSL which requires you to live in a few "select" communities.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC | Good Sense From a business stand point, why would the Cable companies lower prices? Despite lowering DSL costs, Cable Broadband is growing.
They really don't fear a mass exodus to DSL, so why give up the gravy? | |
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Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI
·Comcast
| Re: Good Sense said by Cyron :They really don't fear a mass exodus to DSL They will soon. I am looking into switching. If I can get at least 2Mb DSL I will switch.
In my area Talk America is rolling out DSL for $24.95 per month with the first 30 days free and that's not a promotional price. They advertise 4000/384 speeds. I'm several miles from the CO so I don't know what kind of speeds I will actually get. They are supposed to move my line over to a new system on July 29th. After then I will call them back and have them test the line to see what speeds I qualify for.
2Mb is good enough for me. The money looks better in my pocket than Comcast's. I'm sure others feel the same and will be willing to switch for the cost savings. | |
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Eek2121
Lovin Verizon FIOS
join:2002-10-12
Flanders, NJ
| For all the whiners For all the people that are whining that you can't get naked DSL and for all the cable zealots that think their service is superior...
Verizon:
Verizon DSL = 29.95/mo
Verizon Speed: 3/768
Verizon Basic Phone: 8.60/mo AFTER taxes
Final Bill: ~$40
Comcast:
Comcast Speed: 4/384
Comcast Price: 57.95/mo
Final Bill: ~$60 | |
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| itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: For all the whiners Funny, I'm in PA as well and went to verizon.com and tried to sign up for new service:
Budget Service -$0.00 (includes NOTHING)
Sub. Line Charge - $5.91
Line Connection Charge - Dial Tone - $6.08
Fed Univ. Surcharge - $0.61
Total per month: $12.60
$12.60+$29.95 = 42.55
Install is $40, not guaranteed DSL at all (as per my phone conversation with a CSR) and speeds are "best effort"
Speed is 3/768 and you can not use both at the same time.
Comcast was:
Basic Cable -$9.99
HSI - $42.95
Franchise Fees - $2.00
$9.99+ $42.95 + $2.00 = $54.90
Install was $30, guaranteed 4/364, no "best effort" and I can DL at 4mb and upload at 364k at the same time.
I'd gladly pay $12 more a month to escape the DSL hell I had the last 6mo with Covad (over Verizon lines). | |
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rideboarder
welcome to the social
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Snohomish, WA
clubs: | Re: For all the whiners Well, I'm glad I didn't pay any installation charges with Verizon and I'm getting rock solid speed at 2800/721 at any time of the day. And at the price of $34 after taxes, it can't be beat either! | |
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| | Eek2121
Lovin Verizon FIOS
join:2002-10-12
Flanders, NJ
| Funny how i used to LIVE in PA and had totally different rates from those, and i NEVER paid an installation charge (I had both comcast and verizon because i needed a dedicated pipe for one machine) and btw, your comcast 'rates' aren't guaranteed, read your ToS. | |
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| | | jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY | Re: For all the whiners Really! I would guess that unless you have a business line (T1 etc..) with a service level agreement, nothing is guaranteed. | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Over here I'm getting Earthlink cable broadband for $45. Didn't even need to buy cable television (which my complex offers for free anyway). I think it depends on your area and what's offered when it comes to price and/or quality. There is no such thing as one being better than the other in all cases. | |
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thisismyname1
join:2004-07-26
00000
1 edit | Really? Where is my speed then? 6Mbps/768Kbps for $53 a month I pay is not even competition in speed or price to Verizon FIOS for 15Mbps/2Mbps since without Cable TV the HSI costs $75 a month. They will be upgrading the speeds these summer since they care so much to compete in speeds to 8Mbps/768Kbps. However I am seeing roughly half of the upload and download of FIOS for a higher price.
This "research" is nothing but a big pile of bullshit.
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Freedom of expression should not be hampered by the unwillingness of others to accept things.-NinjaMaster | |
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nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA
| Price cuts is a must Well let see how the cable will fair out in the future, but rite now, all needed is 3.0/512 will be good enuf for even a heavy gaming user, they can focus on fixing the high peak time problem instead of keep raising the damn speed but I can barely get 1mbps connection during peak time while I subcribe to the 10mbps package. Also they can take all the damn free email/free webspace crap and give me back my $10.
Just my 2 cents:o | |
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wildcards2000
| Over Consuming Most home BB users don't using more than 10% of their speed, but faster sounds better. My CEO is an example, he only uses his BB for email and Internet. I for one would like to see BB spreads 3 mb and a lower price. | |
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andrewe77
Gonads And Strife
join:2000-09-17
Blue Springs, MO
clubs:
| My area Comcast is $19.99 for 12 months With SBC in the area offering $14.95/mo for a year, Comcast has begun offering $19.99/mo for year for new customers.
They are certainly worried about DSL price cuts in markets where consumers have a choice. Despite what some idiot executive says, they know if they scoff DSL price cuts they're going to lose customers by the boatload. | |
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screwed you
| Re: My area Comcast is $19.99 for 12 months Just wait until the honeymoon pricing permotion is up on your 1st anniversary.
I suspect you'll be getting a nice letter from your ISP stating something like; "In celibration of our 1st anniversary together, we're sure you remember the low prices. Well, that's over and we want to dig deeper, in fact, much deeper into your wallet. So how about coughing up $57.00 / month now. Oh, By the way, Happy 1st Anniversary !"
Signed Screwed You But Good | |
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| | HawkI911
join:2002-04-08
San Antonio, TX | Re: My area Comcast is $19.99 for 12 months umm... after 12 months he can always change ISPs, or take advantage of the newest promtional offer by comcast. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by screwed you:
Just wait until the honeymoon pricing permotion is up on your 1st anniversary.
Uhm, it's a promotion?! And you would not expect a price increase? Do you really think this is a shocker? I just don't get where you are coming from other than a bitter person that doesn't want to pay for something.
Let's see... SBC,
Happy Anniversary! Your $15.00 service is about to go up to $34.95 + all of those other pesky fees. We just wanted to thank you for letting us dig deeper into your pockets. Don't think about ditching your phone service either as, well, you can't! You have no choise but to buy our phone service to even get DSL.
Signed Screwed you but good.
So what's the difference... besides, IT'S A PROMOTION! and those prices go up. | |
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Cable Scoffs at Price Cuts
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