jarablueAlways be true to yourself join:2001-06-11 Worcester, MA |
CharterLet me say holy moly. That is a nice speed boost. Charter you paying attention? That is one nice speed increase. Oh by the way do they have a set amount on total bandwidth used per month? | |
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Re: Chartersaid by jarablue: Oh by the way do they have a set amount on total bandwidth used per month? From what i hear is they don't, but if they think your "abusing" the bandwidth they will. Not sure if they ever said what that that accounts to.. | |
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| | 53059959 (banned)Temp banned from BBR more then anyone join:2002-10-02 PwnZone |
53059959 (banned)
Member
2005-May-24 11:21 pm
BITCHINexcellent work, cox | |
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| splix Premium Member join:2002-02-19 Oakton, VA |
to jarablue
Sounds good...sounds good. | |
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ffsg to jarablue
Anon
2005-May-24 7:41 pm
to jarablue
upload can be better.... if everyone's upload rates were higher the internet would go alot faster... | |
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| | TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
Tzale
Premium Member
2005-May-24 9:01 pm
Re: Chartersaid by ffsg:
upload can be better.... if everyone's upload rates were higher the internet would go alot faster... Not on a cable system. Cable systems have 5mbps to share with 100-2,000 people. COX has 700 people per node so they have to share 5mbps with them. If 2 people get the 15/2 for only $55/month and use it a lot there will only be 1mbps left to go around. Upload bandwidth is the problem with cable companies. You really have to consider the technology behind this. FIOS is a far superior more robust technology. The current FIOS network shares 622mbps with 16 to 32 users but it will be upgraded to 1000-2000mbps within a year. Fiber is the future but I do applaud COX for giving out every bit of bandwidth for a reasonable price (even if it's still $10 more expensive than FIOS). It's a good price / deal for people that don't have FIOS available to them. -Tzale | |
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| | | ms9723 join:2005-01-17 Springfield, MO |
ms9723
Member
2005-May-24 9:57 pm
Re: Chartera cable node has a capability of 1000-1500 users, the line is divided into 6mhz frequencies, some for tv, others for data traffic, upstream data trafic is in 2 mhz frequencies, so you are right about the upstream. the main difference is dsl requires fiber closer and closer to the home, and a big fat oc line close to the co ring ( sometimes an advanced sonet ring) to gain speeds, cable can simply open up more frequencies for data (each 6mhz frequencie can now carry upto 45mbps per second, there is firware in each node hub station that regulates this so noone can get over a specified amount, much like dsl capps. the funiest part of all this, is that sbc,verizon and other telcos who have many data centers and large robust backbones could already get your dsl line up to 9500 kbps (within 5500-7500 feet) verizon wont be upgrading its speeds even on fios for lower paying cust until the merger with mci goes through, unless they can wrk out the whole lease ip structure, much like sbc/at&t. at&t business class dsl already is @ 6-8mps through covads dslam and local sonet delivery option. heres a quick link to how a cable deleviry system works try searxhing some other options as well you can find info on how the dslam is integreted local fiber ring and xfrd to oc backbones and how exaclty these companies are doing all this I could go on for hours!!! » computer.howstuffworks.c ··· dem9.htm | |
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| | | | Matsayz Premium Member join:2005-02-08 Las Vegas, NV |
Matsayz
Premium Member
2005-May-24 11:39 pm
Re: Charterthat was a mouthful! but very informative. comcast needs to roller over and let Fios come into SE Michigan(Bloomfield Hills to be more to the point) | |
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hurl8 Premium Member join:2003-01-21 Ontario, CA |
hurl8
Premium Member
2005-May-24 6:36 pm
And the race beginsWith this push i think the rest of the cable companies will follow to keep up with competition. It's going to get interesting after this i think. | |
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| Jerm join:2000-04-10 Richland, WA ·Ziply Fiber
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Jerm
Member
2005-May-24 7:30 pm
Race is already WONCable @ 15mbps per customer my ass! There is no way on current cable systems this will work. Sure a select few may see those speeds @ 5AM. Two years ago I uncapped my cable modem (set it to 100mbps down & up) and my actual speeds were in the neighborhood of 7mbps down 1.5mbps up. [no don't ask me how to do this, I got caught and had to go back to 768/128 - boy was that painful!]
Some cable FACTS (stolen from an FAQ here @ DSLR): Homes passed per node can be anywhere from 100-2000 and subscription rate depends on competition, marketing, and system performance. Most cable companies design for 10-25% subscription rates for cable modem customers. So this means anywhere from 10-500 modem customers are connected per node in most cases, depending on local cable system design. Usually cable systems are designed so a single downstream port is split to serve several nodes.
DOCSIS 1.0, 1.1, & 2.0 can do about 27 mbps per downstream port using QAM 64 modulation and about 38 mbps using QAM 256 modulation. Upstream is limited to about 5 mbps per upstream port using DOCSIS 1.0, 10 mbps using DOCSIS 1.1, and 30 mbps using DOCSIS 2.0
Read that again... 10-1000 cable customers can share 27-38 mbps downstream bandwidth capacity! More likely this is 150 to 300 or more on most cable systems today.
Verizon FIOS on the other hand currently has 622mbps for up to 32 houses with their current BPON fiber technology. In a year they are slated to switch to GPON which has 2.4 Gbps downstream, 1.2 Gbps upstream, to each cluster of up to 32 homes.
GAME OVER. VERIZON WINS. THANK YOU PLEASE COME AGAIN. (edit: removed flame bait) | |
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Re: Race is already WONNow if only you got YOUR facts right you might be believable | |
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| | SmokeyI'd rather be skiing Premium Member join:2003-05-20 Wild West |
to Jerm
Cox passes 750 homes on a typical node, and has the ability to split nodes very easily. | |
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| | | | SmokeyI'd rather be skiing Premium Member join:2003-05-20 Wild West 1 edit |
Smokey
Premium Member
2005-May-24 9:00 pm
Re: References...If you are going to talk about a MSO's setup, it might help if you knew how they set up their network, not how another MSO's is set up. While basically the same, Cox lays much more fiber, and gets it closer to the home than you may think. | |
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| | | | | nixenRockin' the Boxen Premium Member join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA |
nixen
Premium Member
2005-May-24 9:57 pm
Re: References...said by Smokey:While basically the same, Cox lays much more fiber, and gets it closer to the home than you may think. Pretty much the entire system in Fairfax County (a.k.a, Northern Virginia) is fibre. The only copper component is from the line drawn off the utility box to the individual home. -tom | |
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| | | | | Jerm join:2000-04-10 Richland, WA ·Ziply Fiber
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to Smokey
Nice pic...So lets see, take that "750/1000" homes per node. Assume they use all six channels @ 38mbps (=228mbps). Lets compare current technology:
Cox: 228mbps/750users = 0.3 mbps per user, much less if they use fewer channels.
Verizon: 622mbps/32users = 19.43 mbps per user (VZ says 32 houses is the max)
So Verizon is deploying over 64x the bandwidth per user. All I'm saying is which would you think is more likely to slow down at peak times?
Even if Cable upgrades their speeds in a year, VZ will be @ 2.4gbps per 32 houses which gives 75mbps per user. | |
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| | | | | | ms9723 join:2005-01-17 Springfield, MO |
ms9723
Member
2005-May-25 12:57 am
Re: Nice pic...my point excactly.............the telcos will win with fiber on an all ip infustructer, no amplifirers, no garbage!!!!! | |
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| | | | | | SmokeyI'd rather be skiing Premium Member join:2003-05-20 Wild West |
to Jerm
That is homes passed, not homes served. My home is on a node with 748 homes passed, but only 129 use HSI (as of November).
Now to your idea that Cox is beaten, they really aren't. They are one of the first MSO's to deploy 1ghz+ overlay systems, and can easily use the added bandwidth for HSI, or gigaE over cable. | |
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| | pcscdmahi Premium Member join:2004-01-14 Winterset, IA ARRIS SB8200 Nest H2D
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to Jerm
said by Jerm: Usually cable systems are designed so a single downstream port is split to serve several nodes. That's the part that those cable systems will eventually have to upgrade in order to get any sort of consistency with high speeds. They can get 3 downstream channels per node. They can get 6 upstream channels per downstream channel. I haven't seen any proof here that a cable provider has even done 2 downstream channels. I'm not sure if that's because it's cheaper to split a node or they just feel like node splitting is a really cool thing to do. | |
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| | Snickerdo3 Premium Member join:2001-02-28 Niagara Falls, ON |
to Jerm
said by Jerm:DOCSIS 1.0, 1.1, & 2.0 can do about 27 mbps per downstream port using QAM 64 modulation and about 38 mbps using QAM 256 modulation. Upstream is limited to about 5 mbps per upstream port using DOCSIS 1.0, 10 mbps using DOCSIS 1.1, and 30 mbps using DOCSIS 2.0 You're forgetting to take into account that there can be up to six channels PER NODE. That's 288Mbit/s down and 30-180Mbit/s upstream for a single node, which can be split if necessary. Not too bad when you're dealing with regular ol' coax. | |
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| | | Jerm join:2000-04-10 Richland, WA ·Ziply Fiber
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Jerm
Member
2005-May-24 7:59 pm
Does Cox have their network upgraded TODAY?The last two replies I appreciate, because they are both very good points. Yes cable CAN go faster, but most current systems aren't making the necessary modifications to do so. Even though they can fit more channels, very few if any do so currently.
And thats my problem with Cox. Did they actually config their network to handle customers @ 15mbps or did they just raise the caps and now will let everything go to sh*t.
Capping bandwidth at 15mbps is no problem. Delivering and actual 15mbps reliably over a real customer base IS.
Sorry for the rant, its just that Charter had enough problems providing 3mbps/256kbps to me reliably. I can only imagine what would happen if they allowed 15/2 | |
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Re: Does Cox have their network upgraded TODAY?They upgraded the NOVA cable system to DOCSIS 2.0, so yes they can give their customers that bandwidth. | |
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| | | | nixenRockin' the Boxen Premium Member join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA |
nixen to Jerm
Premium Member
2005-May-24 10:00 pm
to Jerm
I Fairfax County, they've spent the past 5 years replacing all the trunk lines with fibre. Why? Because, if they didn't, they'd not be able to sell broadband, at all, here. There's just way too many other alternatives in Northern Virginia.
-tom | |
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| | the niTz Premium Member join:2004-07-05 Sahuarita, AZ |
to Jerm
actually on the cox network here in AZ cox techs that i know have told me they get a easy 10 down and 10 up with the Motorola hack, they even told me how to do it, but the thought of me loosing access and going back to vpn or dial up is a good enough incentive not to | |
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| | ms9723 join:2005-01-17 Springfield, MO |
to Jerm
every cable company is different in the fiber technolgies, cox is dedicated hub to node rings no node splitting,the main problem isnt # of people, though it stands as a problem it is the back end conection to ip backbone, fios anticapates about 32 homes per cluster but is more likely once service evolves into andvanced ip service (iptv, video, voip, the quality, not bad service, dedicated packet service for all ip products dividing services so no line loss for tv, internet and phone) between 40-120 homes on full luanch availability, @ around 10-15 mps per household on interent conectivity for midrange product still. not any diff than what they offer now, better ip infastructure, but no more real bandwith per home for downloading and surfing!!! p.s cox had a massive buildout for fiber rings throughout its areas, no good ip backbone, all leased access that is leased again to them, small data centers, and most of all because of the cost of fiber and rapid loss of customers to rbocs, ilecs and dlecs, satalite tv and all, they keepon lossing money!!!! go verizon, sbc, at&t and ip leadrs of todays ( the future in now, iptv,fios,fttn,ip everything!!!!)
almost forgot @ last report, comcast, the largest cable companie averages 500-710 homes per node, they have less fiber than coax, except where at&t built, more nodes split, more packet loss, and more peoblems with voip than any other company, my sister works in noc for them | |
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| pcscdmahi Premium Member join:2004-01-14 Winterset, IA |
to hurl8
Re: And the race beginsOnly if they are being threatened by Verizon. Northern Virginia Cox will have 5mb download 2mbit upload for their basic tier. Us poor Mediacom users are going to 5mbit 256kbit. | |
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CompetitionCompetition rocks.:) | |
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Rob AAdjusting Premium Member join:2005-01-17 Pompton Plains, NJ |
Rob A
Premium Member
2005-May-24 6:39 pm
Still aint gonna compete with fios.Fios 15/2 for 44.95/month Cox 15/2 for 54.95/month Hmm....what is the better deal? | |
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| AbBaZaBbA Premium Member join:2002-07-10 Wildomar, CA |
Re: Still aint gonna compete with fios.yea and trust me, they WILL have bandwith caps for excessive users, especially the upload. It's the way cable networks work with the upload. Only one person on a node can send at once. So if too many people are uploading it can take out the whole network. Fios has no such problem. I can't wait | |
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| | NOCManMadMacHatter Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO |
NOCMan
Premium Member
2005-May-24 6:46 pm
Re: Still aint gonna compete with fios.Yeah plus people with any signal issues will not see those speeds and when you call and complain you'll get the "If we find no problem we charge you 55 dollars for the rollout"
Yeah I love my FIOS! | |
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to AbBaZaBbA
said by AbBaZaBbA:It's the way cable networks work with the upload. Only one person on a node can send at once. So if too many people are uploading it can take out the whole network. You are so incorrect I don't even know how to respond.... If that was true everyone on cable would only have a 56K upload..... A node has a certain amount of upload available, and with Cox going to DOCSIS 2.0 (to supply the 2meg upload) there is plenty available sins the super heavy uploader... | |
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Re: Still aint gonna compete with fios.Nice to see Northern Virginia getting 15/2 while Vegas still can't even get 768k up. Keep up the good work! | |
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| | | AbBaZaBbA Premium Member join:2002-07-10 Wildomar, CA |
to Fubar16
I'm not sure about 2.0 but I remember a few years ago really looking into it. Basically downloads get broadcast over variable frequencies. So they can be broadcasting to as many people as can fit at once. But with uploads, only one client can be transmitting at a time. (we're talking miliseconds though). But with eneough people uploading cable networks can get really congested. | |
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LarryTheCableGuy to AbBaZaBbA
Anon
2005-May-24 8:25 pm
to AbBaZaBbA
quote: It's the way cable networks work with the upload. Only one person on a node can send at once. So if too many people are uploading it can take out the whole network.
LOL! You work for a DSL company, right? Disclaimer: I'm not a real cable guy nor do I play one on TV. | |
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| | SpitefulCrowInsert Witty Tag Here Premium Member join:2003-06-04 Berkeley, CA |
to AbBaZaBbA
Only one modem is permitted to send in a specific time slot on an upstream channel. Multiple upstream channels can be allocated. More importantly, however, is the fact that this restriction does not mean that only one modem can have a two-way session taking place at once. DOCSIS divides the channel on a time basis (like TDMA for cell phones... come on, you didn't really think they had one frequency for every digital cell phone on a tower, did you?) and this is more than enough to allow modems to send multiple packets per burst and have enough turns to go around for all the modems in the node. Go get your facts straight. | |
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| technick Premium Member join:2000-12-16 Wheat Ridge, CO |
to Rob A
FIOS is only the better deal if it is available to you | |
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LeftOfSanity to Rob A
Anon
2005-May-24 9:53 pm
to Rob A
Wow...Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure none of us would have seen that. Good catch.
Thanx for stopping by. | |
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to Rob A
said by Rob A:Fios 15/2 for 44.95/month Cox 15/2 for 54.95/month Hmm....what is the better deal? I believe that to get the $44.95 price for Verizon's 15/2 you have to have something like Verizon's Freedom long distance package - which is around $50 a month, plus a cornucopia of other taxes and charges. Even so, without the package deal Verizon's 15/2 will be $5 a month cheaper than Cox's 15/2. If Cox truly wants to compete, they need to lower their 15/2 price to match Verizon's. The 5/2 speeds are priced the same, though once again you can save $5 a month with Verizon if you want to purchase the Freedom package. I will try to stick with Cox, but if I do switch I will happily pay the same $39.95 price, for 5/2 from Verizon, that I now pay for Cox, since I use a cell phone and the $14.99 a month Vonnage plan. | |
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to Rob A
Depends, I am sure there are probably neighborhoods where Cox could deliver any service and Verizon couldn't. Do you honestly believe that this is a real world potential? Neither covers 100% of the population. | |
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I2uss join:2004-01-15 Vienna, VA |
I2uss
Member
2005-May-24 6:54 pm
Good for all of Northern VirginiaMany places in Northern Virginia still do not have Fios, so this will be a welcomed upgrade for a lot of people. Others are happy with Cox right now and would like to get such an increase without the hassle of changing services. For those lucky enough to already have Fios, this can also be seen as a positive since Fiber can easily handle subsequent upgrades. This is a prime example why competition is a good thing and it will become even more interesting when Verizon has an accompanying TV package. | |
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BOOOcox sux lol funny name..it sounds like cox.. verizon bringing fios down to us and we havent had any highspeed other then direcway...booo cox booo | |
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zorgl
Anon
2005-May-24 8:11 pm
At least Verizon goes FTTHWhereas SBC with their halfass approach will have a system whose top speed max out really quickly compared to Verizon's system. | |
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I wonder...Will COX lead the pack and upgrade the rest of the nation? Or sit on their ass until FIOS is deployed in their regions, and selectively upgrade to keep pace?
I can say that if FIOS comes here and COX only upgrades then, to be competitive, they can kiss me goodbye because I like it when service providers take the initiative. | |
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Question Why would you need more than about 5-6 MB anyhow? You know that Caps are going to be high anyhow. This just makes no sense to me. There is no good reason why anyone needs 15 MB down. I do understand the upload but come on when is this going to stop?
KENNY
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| koma3504Advocate Premium Member join:2004-06-22 Granbury, TX |
koma3504
Premium Member
2005-May-24 8:44 pm
Re: Questionsaid by kennydillon:Why would you need more than about 5-6 MB anyhow? You know that Caps are going to be high anyhow. This just makes no sense to me. There is no good reason why anyone needs 15 MB down. I do understand the upload but come on when is this going to stop? KENNY I can tell you a few. 6 users even a simple 6mb conection couldn't handle this. browsing would be quit slow. user 1 watching msn vidieos. user2 playing online games. user3 playing online kids games. user4 ocasional browsing. user5 Website Editing. user6 website edititing,webcam broadcasting-voice stream; crusing this Forum Removing viruses-trojans-optamizing; Dsl users computer configurations, turning off unneeded services, securing their firewalls/2wire modems. Via Netmeeting (why this is they way they want it since they can watch and take notes and lern that way they have notes to refer back to since they was paying attention.) Thats why we have 3 dsl lines. Hopes this answers your ? on why any one would need that much bandwith. Have A nice Evening Broadband Reports Readers. | |
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| | moko join:2002-12-22 Fayetteville, GA |
moko
Member
2005-May-24 9:30 pm
Re: Questioni agree.....good anwser | |
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TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
Tzale
Premium Member
2005-May-24 8:57 pm
TzaleFIOS is a superior technology. No modem, FIBER OPTIC to the side of your house, 622mbps (soon to be 1000-2000mbps) for every 16 to 32 users not 700 like COX has. This is a GOOD deal from COX, but remember that FIOS is still cheaper $45.95/month compared to $55. I'd take FIOS any day, but if this is the only option for you I'd spring for it in a second.
The real problem is how will COX afford to split nodes at only $55/month? 15/2 is A LOT of bandwidth for a cable network.
-Tzale | |
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| SmokeyI'd rather be skiing Premium Member join:2003-05-20 Wild West |
Smokey
Premium Member
2005-May-24 9:06 pm
Re: TzaleOn that same logic, how can VZ afford the 2000 dollars per home to run FIOS? Cox already has some of the costs divested, and wont need massive field work laying new lines to each and every home. Most of the work is back office. | |
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SteveGR
Anon
2005-May-24 9:04 pm
Must be niceIt must be nice. I'm still happy my no name cable company upgraded from 512/128 to 1.5/256. They have a hard time keeping speeds reliable with that even. I can't imagine 5Mbps yet alone 15Mbps! The town I live in used to be nothing but farms, now its flooded with homes and businesses. I'm amazed DSL still hasn't arrived. My cable company has no competition so they can treat us like crap and know we'll accept it considering the only other option is dialup. I can't wait for the day competition arrives! | |
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Newegg4Comcast steals modems join:2004-11-14 Norcross, GA |
Newegg4
Member
2005-May-24 10:35 pm
Actuall capsThey better be 16Mbps and 2.5Mbps to make up for overhead but even with that nobody will reach 15/2. | |
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| statestress magnet Mod join:2002-02-08 Purgatory |
state
Mod
2005-May-25 12:11 am
Re: Actuall capsEven with the overhead factored in to 15/2, it's still quite a nice bump in speed. I won't complain for a few months | |
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| | SmokeyI'd rather be skiing Premium Member join:2003-05-20 Wild West |
Smokey
Premium Member
2005-May-25 6:26 am
Re: Actuall capsIf I here a single peep out of you, I shall set my hounds lose on you. | |
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ronbad
Anon
2005-May-25 12:42 am
DebateFunny all of this debate about who is the best broadband provider. Who cares? Go with what you have and if something better comes along that you current provider cant match the just switch! Those with multiple options should choose the best available and drive on. Sheesh... | |
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Re: DebateLets not forget that as cable companies start to move more and more of their channels to digital there will be a lot of space freed up for more offerings (more HD channels and more bandwidth for HSI). They have a lot of space they can use, just need to trash the analog spectrum.
And thast another thing. You are comparing telco's fiber all digital to cable's half digital half analog system. Compare apples to apples. | |
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RajuAbju join:2001-11-29 Beverly Hills, CA |
sbc, wake upwhere the hell is SBC in all this?
I swear it seems like every company out there, cable or dsl is at least making SOME effort in increasing speed, whether its a small increase to 5mb or huge to 15mb...
and here we are with sbc with their crap ass 3mb nonsense still! | |
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Too young to appreciate . . .I suspect that a lot of people on this board are too young (absolutely no offense intended) to remember just how bad it used to be. How many people remember when we had to pay by the minute to use the internet? And talk about slow; doing any kind of research was enough to bring screams of frustration as you went from slow loading page to slow loading page and, all the while, you were paying by the minute.
Only a few years ago, ISDN, at 128kbps, seemed incredibly fast. Of course it was very expensive and not readily available.
I am going to try to be thankful that we have advanced as fast as we have in the last couple of years. It can only get better. | |
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| Deckoh Premium Member join:2002-07-24 Chesapeake, VA |
Deckoh
Premium Member
2005-May-26 8:22 pm
Re: Too young to appreciate . . .true true, as momma said said by Momma: Dont bite the Hand hand That Feeds YOU!
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Oh, Goody! Faster Drive-By Spyware Installs...The scumbags of the earth will just love this... | |
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Lets clear some things up hereI had to join this conversation for the intentions to back up Cox in any way possible, I have been a customer since 1998, that was basically when HSI came out and I started to notice them, anyway I can tell you when it had first came out I had to dial up for upload, but from the day it came out the speeds were 3mbs, I live in AZ btw, I know for a fact from then on I knew that cox had a quite solid system here in Phoenix, from then on changes started, we moved on to upstream threw coax, the speed was then 3000down/256up impressive for around 2000 when that occured, from then on came the updates, we were running on QAM 64 for long time, within the last year we were moved to QAM 256, right away speeds increaced, hince why we were updated to the free 4mbs/512kbs, basically because of the QAM, anyway I will make this short and sweet, within the last 3 months I had ordered business service with Cox, the service runs on the same network so dont give me bs, I know because nothing changed when I moved over to business service, anywho the speeds were 7mbs/1.1mbs, within the last week or so they had informed me they will be moving speeds up to 15/1.1mbs and now tonight I have speeds of 15mbs download on a docsys 1.0 modem. I guess I just ended up writing this to tell you I know Cox has the proper resources to keep up or get ahead, in fact if things came to the worst Cox here in Phoenix could go to Fiber in a blink of an eye, considering all drop boxes are fiber, thats how close the fiber runs to the house in this town, I just wanted to let it out, thanks for your time. | |
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Re: Lets clear some things up here How much for that service Joe? | |
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