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Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY | Back to Fees Just wait till your VoIP bill will be enhanced with 20% of taxes and fees.
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Semper Fi | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: Back to Fees said by Tomek  :Just wait till your VoIP bill will be enhanced with 20% of taxes and fees. I understand what you are saying, but it will still be cheaper then the equivalent ILEC service. An additional 20% on top of Vonage's $25 service is still cheaper then my similarly featured $35 Verizon service, and that price doesn't even include all the fees/taxes I have to pay. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Back to Fees There are significant costs involved because currently some VoIP providers have the barest minimum of connections in a metro area, and in some states this requirement would mean that they would have to connect to every PSAP--literally hundreds of new trunks.
In those states that use 9-1-1 "routers" (which actually are circuit based switches performing a tandem switching function) the connections may be fewer, but your "ownership" question moves to the front burner.
In many cases, those 9-1-1 fees go in large part for paying the ILECs for rental of facilities at pretty steep rates.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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OceanaJones
join:2004-10-18
Suffolk, VA | A new tax on the horizon All these politicians really care about is the ability to collect more and more TAXES and employ more and more deadwood government employees! | |
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normljoe
Premium
join:2004-08-11
Arlington, TX | Re: A new tax on the horizon It has nothing to do with the gov wanting to employ more people. It has everything to do with the large telcos protecting their turf and flexing their ability to buy the best gov possible (for them). | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: A new tax on the horizon ...and having the government buy the most expensive 9-1-1 solution (from them)....
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Idiot Tax As I ranted in another forum, this Congressional action is yet another product of the idiots who use products without fully understanding what they are doing going and then whining to the government when said product doesn't work as expected. Most VoIP providers make it very clear their 911 service doesn't work as it would with POTS. If anything, the government should go after those providers who don't make this distinction clear instead of screwing over yet another new technology industry.
Better yet, prosecute the idiots whose willful negligence led to the death/harm of innocent people because said idiots didn't bother to understand VoIP and its problems with 911 service.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Idiot Tax Actually, I think this Congressional action is the result of a bunch of publicity hungry politicians watching an issue get news coverage and then jumping on it.
If the big story of the weekend had been trampoline safety, you'd have seen Hillary and company wanting to regulate trampolines, instead.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Idiot Tax said by calvoiper :If the big story of the weekend had been trampoline safety, you'd have seen Hillary and company wanting to regulate trampolines, instead. As much as I can't stand Hillary and company, there are political whores on both sides of the aisle. But I'm not worried, I know that no steroid-crazed baseball players will hurt me when I'm not looking!
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montee4
Premium
join:2004-02-15
Chicago, IL
2 edits | Reaction to the Press I beleive that their heart is in the right place here, however this is a reaction to the press, which seems to drive a lot of decisions these days.
It would have been better had they worked with the likes of Jeff Pulver of FWD and others to develop a strategy that makes sense. Not all VoIP users use their account in one place.
I am curious how this will affect the VoIP WiFi handsets that are going to be released. Will it have to route you to the nearest emergency center near your hotspot????
And what about softphones which let you use your account on any PC.
I doubt that anyone who make these decisions even know what a soft phone or WiFi handset is. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Reaction to the Press said by montee4 :I doubt that anyone who make these decisions even know what a soft phone or WiFi handset is. This would be a great question for a reporter to ask. Can you imagine any one of those idiot Senators when asked:
"How will this affect WiFi enabled VoIP handsets?", quickly followed by "Do you even know what a WiFi enabled handset is?"
calvoiper
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DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
| Trouble for outbound only & nomadic VOIP services Congress and FCC is trying to fit some new technology
into a pair of old shoes. While Vonage solution was inadequate and misleading, the outcome came out to be overregulation that prevents different uses that the conventional telephone would provide.
It looks like recent FCC decision will be great trouble for nomadic (mobile) and outbound only VoIP services.
In particular, outbound only calls do not have an associated fixed phone number which is a requirement for 911 service.
Nomadic use could also be impaired because it is next to impossible to ensure that the user is at its registered location or information is updated correctly.
The current decision is more likely the outcome of big telcos getting rid of cheap VoIP competition and hiding their motives behind 911/Public safety FUD vector. | |
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL | Re: Trouble for outbound only & nomadic VOIP servi I think this should be done as an optional certification program. If the carrier wanted to offer 911, they could display a logo on their website. | |
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DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
| Re: Trouble for outbound only & nomadic VOIP servi said by reub2000 :I think this should be done as an optional certification program. If the carrier wanted to offer 911, they could display a logo on their website. FCC ruling mandates anything that looks like a telephony service to offer E911 service. Unless they revise the final ruling this would be definitely be end of outbound only service still given it is outbound only service indicates that user probably has a service (PSTN) that offers 911 connectivity. Outbound only service should be equivalent to calling card or 10-10 dial around services but we will see if that distinction will be made.
This will also the end of SypeOut service since it cannot comply with 911 ruling either. | |
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defense
@eas-ubr2.atw-ea
| Re: Trouble for outbound only & nomadic VOIP servi I'm pretty sure Skype is a U.K. based company and I don't think U.S. laws would apply. Maybe that's what all VOIP providers should do. Just go foreign. Then they wouldn't have to worry about being taxed, regulated, or simply "offed" by the United States government on behalf of the monopolistic telcos. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Trouble for outbound only & nomadic VOIP servi This may work for the outbound only side, but if you want to offer inbound service with a US area code, you pretty much have to be here and kiss the FCC's @$$.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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dslwanter
Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Of course Of course they'll try something like this AFTER the trouble happens. How many lives could have been saved? Every phone whether it be cell, landline, or VOIP should be regulated, 911 wise, for safety reasons.
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defense
@eas-ubr2.atw-ea | Re: Of course Why can't the telcos provide a free dial tone specifically for 911 even after cancellation of landline service. Cell phone providers must provide this for free to current, former, and non-customers alike; why not the telcos? | |
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dslwanter
Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..
·AT&T Midwest
2 edits | Re: Of course said by defense:
Why can't the telcos provide a free dial tone specifically for 911 even after cancellation of landline service. Cell phone providers must provide this for free to current, former, and non-customers alike; why not the telcos?
Where did you hear that crock of crap? I have never heard anything like that about Cell Phones. You sound like the kid that came in the ameritech forum telling us his buddy gets 24 mb/s.
911 should be quick and easy just like it is regulated to be with a landline regardless if you're using landline, VOIP, or a cell phone.
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"and he will raise you up, on eagles wings, there you are the breath of dawn, make you to shine like the sun, and hold you in the palm, of his hands" | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Of course It's not a crock of crap--most cell providers, if they still recognize the technology, will pass a 9-1-1 call from any phone.
On the other hand, anyone who says 9-1-1 is easy for VoIP doesn't understand the technology.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA | Pointless No broadband provider is even remotely close to five nine uptime. What is the point of additional emergency service requirements when service can be down for days? | |
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jasqid
Fiber In Your Diet?
join:2002-04-02
East Palestine, OH
| 911 is nice but.... You can still call Fire, Police, Ambulance directly.
With all the newer phones today, you can store the numbers and dial directly.
I mean, what's so hard about doing that? We all survived with out 911 before. (Those of us that "made it" over 30  ...) | |
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| patcat
join:2002-04-10
Georgetown, MA
 ·ViaTalk
| Don't kid yourself.......... This whole issue is being driven by the massive telco lobby in DC. They see market share losses and want to seize the opportunity to kill many of the voip start-ups. Your elected pols are not stupid....they know exactly what theyre doing. They are in the pocket of the big firms that financed their campaigns. It goes like this.....develop a technology that endangers the establishment... legislators find an excuse to levy taxes and other requirements to break your back. They gave the cell phone industry over 10 years to get local 911 up and running. Voip gets 120 days. Incredible. | |
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join:2003-11-15
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Don't kid yourself.......... Some VOIP concerns already use systems with e911 capacity. Any VOIP that uses Level 3 network have e911 in most areas. The other VOIP concerns just weren't prepared for such a backlash. I pay $1.50 a month for e911 and have never complained about it. Everyone is going to pay for the shortsightedness of the industry. In the long run the prices will still be lower than the baby bells. | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Don't kid yourself.......... Finally, someone moving away from the knee jerk reactions that have been spewing forth from the oh-so-smarter-than-thou/the-harm-was-deserved VOIP adopters and making an intelligent post. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| Re: 911 is nice but.... said by jasqid :You can still call Fire, Police, Ambulance directly. You can, but in many cases it will result in a significant delay in response time. I know that locally the evolution of 911 has led to both consolidation of Fire, Police, and Ambulance dispatch into a centralized center and consolidation of multiple jurisdictions into a centralized dispatch center. If one were to set up a speed dial such that it goes through a non-911 number directly to the center, within theory all that is lost is the enhanced service. If one were to call the published numbers for a specific Police Department, Fire Department, etc., the call could land on an administrative line - which may or may not be able to transfer the caller to the dispatch center or otherwise be able to dispatch the service(s) needed. | |
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rbb
join:2000-09-17
Fairfax Station, VA
| VOIP number out of state This is ludicrous. My Voip # is in NH and I live in VA. Why should I pay for 911 service to Manchester NH when I am in Northern VA? Are they going to send an ambulance from Manchester NH to Fairfax County VA if I call?
And what about the bigger problem of people who only have and use a cell phone? There are a lot more of them out there and 911 is a big problem. And what about the folks that I know who are military and keep their numbers from their last duty station? 911 won't work at all for them.
The simple solution is to just program your phone with the local emergency number and be done with it. No need for government interference at the behest of the telcos and greedy politicians. | |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
| Re: VOIP number out of state said by rbb :This is ludicrous. My Voip # is in NH and I live in VA. Why should I pay for 911 service to Manchester NH when I am in Northern VA? Are they going to send an ambulance from Manchester NH to Fairfax County VA if I call? And what about the bigger problem of people who only have and use a cell phone? There are a lot more of them out there and 911 is a big problem. And what about the folks that I know who are military and keep their numbers from their last duty station? 911 won't work at all for them. The simple solution is to just program your phone with the local emergency number and be done with it. No need for government interference at the behest of the telcos and greedy politicians. 911 doesn't work that way. With cell phones, the carrier uses your current location to dispatch your call, either via GPS (with some carriers / phones), or nearest cell-tower. If I travel to Atlanta with my Michigan phone number, when 911 is dialed, 911 is dispatched from Atlanta, even though I have a 989 area code.
Same goes for VoIP carriers (that currently support e911). In my situation, I login to a website where I can update my current "residing address". This is the address used to determine which 911 center is contacted, and also which address is sent down the pipe to the 911 center. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Where the H3// is the FCC text? OK, we're now 5 days past the FCC "adoption" of its 9-1-1 VoIP order, and they still haven't "released" the text.
The particulars are important for the industry, and these folks can't get their $4i+ together enough to distribute the actual language of the requirements?
(Oh--I forgot. They got the press release out, and that is all that really matters to them....)
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Congress Drafts VoIP 911 Bills
While pushing the small Mom and Pop providers out of business. For them, it isn't just the cost of 911, it is the non obtainable coverage that goes along with offering 911 services. These small operations that are needed by many and are just an upgrade from a calling card are being wiped out. If their gross profit is under a couple of mil, how can they stand up to a couple of multimillion $ suits just because the internet was down when a subscriber need to call 911? Would you insure them?