 GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA | This is wrong. If I were a Vermont resident not in Brandon I would feel like this is not something I should be assisting in. | |
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Optimized
Premium,Mod
join:2001-05-03
Pompton Lakes, NJ
clubs:
Host:
RCN
Patriot Media
Cellphones, provid..
Other Manufacturers
| Re: This is wrong. quote:
The state subsidy is part of a $200,000 pilot program authorized by the Legislature, according to Thomas Murray, deputy commissioner of economic development.
Initially, there were 15 applicants and nine finalists looking to share the funds.
Three other areas got $50,000 grants: Westmore, in northern Vermont near Lake Willoughby; the West Windsor-Reading area; and the South Hero-Grand Isle area.
I'm not too sure how these towns were eventually selected and who goes in what order.
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Chilly likes it | |
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Cromwell, CT
clubs: 
| this is right said by GhostDoggy  :If I were a Vermont resident not in Brandon I would feel like this is not something I should be assisting in. Maybe there is more to worry about in GA? seems you sneeze money away at a much larger pace on "other" "WORTHY" projects?
This goes for any state. let the people there worry about it, and i would say there is more stuff being done in those states that should more then likley be CUT FIRST before affordable broadband!!!
$16 Billion Georgia Spending Plan Gets Last-Minute Pork Projects. »www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.as···&teaser=
»www.heritage.org/Research/Budget···ID=53126
»www.radicalgeorgiamoderate.org/2···ing-pork
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www.stopfcc.comI do not think the government needs to restrict free speech especially on a device that has an off knob. | |
| 
Industry_Pro
@comcast.net
thumbs down from:
Andrew J
| WISP's: Don't do it! Note to Wisp's from someone who has been there in a wholesale/retail wireless ISP deal - don't do it. TelJet will think it owns your customers. It's their network. You will find yourself on the short end of the stick at every turn. You will be unable to do anything because they can just move your customers to another ISP at the flick of a keyboard. You will find yourself expected to bear all the costs of collections and support while recieving only 1/2 the revenue (maybe).
Let's say you have a billing dispute. Who wins? TelJet
Service dispute? Refund for lost customer/bad service? Who wins? TelJet
You want to take your customers and leave? Oh, but TelJet will call personally on YOUR customers and tell them it's easier for them just to switch to TelJet's favored ISP partner of the moment.
Don't do it. Let TelJet have teljet's customers. THey will never, ever really be your customers while you are using TelJet's network. Build your own network and compete with teljet and it's ISP's - you should be able to easily undercut a wholesale/retail operation with a straight integrated provider that has it's own network. No way there is margin in there for two companies if competition comes in.
You heard it here on DSL Reports first!
Industry_Pro | |
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Industry_Pro
@comcast.net
| Re: WISP's: Don't do it! hyBTW,
I forgot to mention to the wisp's considering this wholesale/retail deal - YOU will be blamed by your users for all of TelJet's service problems and startup/growth issues. Customers may very well get fed up with your complete inability to do anything to fix their service, improve network performance, or generally do anything, since it's not your network to work on. TelJet will be mixing the traffic from several ISP's together on one network - that's GUARANTEED to cause routing problems and unneccessary complexity to the network. YOU will take the blame for this and here is the really disgusting part of a deal like this. If your users get mad at you because you can't fix TelJet's problems - they will switch to another ISP *ON TELJET* and teljet will simply screw you and continue to recieve the same income they recieved before. It won't matter to TelJet what ISP a customer is on - they make the same money no matter what. They will make it so easy for customers to switch, that no ISP has anything at all keeping customers with them and TelJet makes money no matter what your churn is.
Primarily realize that a shaky deal like this won't last more than a few years. Once an integrated provider moves in they will take prices down to a level where there is not room for two companies to make margin on an account.
You have to ask yourself as an ISP, "Why does TelJect want to do things this wholesale way? Why not take the customers themselves?"
AHH! But that's the thing. To them, they ARE taking all the customers themselves. They just get YOU the dummy wannabe WISP, to take on all the customer acquisition cost (advertising/marketing/sales), you take all the risk (betcha anything the agreement says you still owe teljet even if the customer defaults), and you do the most difficult and frustrating part of the industry, support for novice end users. TelJet just sits back and takes gravy money for running a couple of access points and routers with no real hard recurring costs and minimal risk. You get 1/2 or less of the money and every customer you bring TelJet will end up being THEIR customer, NOT YOURS. They can switch customers to another ISP on their network with a couple of config lines.
Don't do it, WISP's - I've been there - IT'S A TRAP - and you will end up sorry you got involved. It's their network, let them run it themselves. You build and run your own network. Going with this wholesale/retail model is a formula for disputes and doom and it can't, ultimately, last.
It's their network. That says all a smart business person needs to know, really. I wish I had listened to my inner voice in 1998 on my first wireless wholesale/retail deal!!
Industry_Pro | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
 ·WaveCrazy.Net
| Stupidity reigns I must agree with industry pro, anyone who would do this has to be very stupid. As an owner of a WISP, this is the LAST place I would do business. The State of VT is not too sharp to think a business model like this would ever work. I could see the new state slogan for this one!, "Come to VT, build Your networks, lose Your money, and then go home and be happy". After all, You had the privilege of providing high speed internet for Brandon VT???......................
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/ | |
| | Maliki2
join:2003-12-17
Saint Albans, VT
| Re: Stupidity reigns Well being from Vermont, this makes no sense, I think theres a few hundred people in Brandon, while I sit between a gold mine of high speed internet between St. Albans, Highgate and Swanton and we can't get anything here. I'm sick of waiting for high speed...Adelphia, blames the electric company, who blames Verizon who blames Adelphia. Why Brandon of all places? | |
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KenFrom Vermont
@dynamic.cov
| How about this? Being a WISP located in Vermont (but not for much longer, I'm thrilled to say) there seems to be one point that the state in its infinite lack of wisdom seems to have missed, how a program like this affects any potential private development.
To put it quite simply, would you invest your money along with your future to build infrastructure in any area that can and will eventually provide your competition with free money? What sense would taking that risk make?
This is nothing more than a thinly veiled excuse to appease the people of Vermont that their state government is doing something - even though the reality is that the state has absolutely no clue what to do.
Too bad, the incredibly wonderful people that live in Vermont deserve much better. | |
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GregK
| There is another way... Greg Kelly of TelJet here. I've read the comments about the negative side of wholesale/retail WISP models and don't disagree that poaching takes place. It isn't limited to WISPs either; it happens with T-1 and DS-3 accounts as well. It has to do with the motivation of the parties involved, not the technology. The wholesale/retail models referred to in the prior posts also had a silent partner in the mix somewhere; the ILEC. The ILEC takes their revenue cut for the backhaul portion and the wholesale/retail partners split whats left; not a profitable formula.
However, in our case there is good reason for the wholesale/retail model to work. We've removed the ILEC from the picture and we get the backhaul revenue instead. We have built a 10GB fiber network that passes through 18 towns in Vermont, including Brandon. We make our money selling 100mb and above circuits on the fiber network, not by 'renting' the wireless infrastructure. The wireless infrastructure is simply a vehicle to drive traffic to our fiber network. What would keep us from entering the retail side and poaching the customer? Simple; we won't make any more money after paying all the additional overhead, so why bother? We'd rather have a happy wholesale customer, than a pissed off ex-customer. More beach time for us!
We want WISPs to have grow like crazy with lots of customers because that means they're consuming more bandwidth on our fiber network. We offer WISPs benefits not available over ILEC circuits; 100mb drops to pre-secured antenna sites, backhaul to their POP, traffic aggregation, cumulative billing, access to inexpensive Internet bandwidth and maybe, most important, lower capital outlay. We're trying something different; we think it will work. | |
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Wireless In Vermont