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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
| Re: um... said by PhoenixDown  :I know DirecTV and TimeWarner offer digital music stations, I am sure that must take up more bandwidth than simple FM. Probably not. The FM broadcast band occupies 20 MHz of spectrum from 88MHz to 108MHz. Since the cable system needs to maintain compatibility with FM receivers they cannot compress it or shift the frequencies. With satellite (including satellite radio) they compress the digital audio stream so you are able to fit more programming into a smaller space. If the FM broadcast band was all digital, you could squeeze a heck of a lot more programming onto the dial but it would all probably sound the same anyhow 
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
| | smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home
| You can fit a lot of bits into analog channels. Why do you think cable companies want everyone to switch to digital cable?
There is a lot of bandwidth in the analog channels. And Comcast is likely to be able to fit more than 1 digital HD channel onto an FM frequency. | |
| | 
nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
| said by PhoenixDown :I know DirecTV and TimeWarner offer digital music stations, I am sure that must take up more bandwidth than simple FM. You'd think so, but that's not the case. The spectrum from 88mhz to 108mhz on the cable system could fit 6 to 9 HD channels (depending on compression) or up to 20-30 Digital channels (once again depending on compression). In theory they could offer the entire FM lineup as a digital music station and taking up a fraction of the current bandwidth used for the FM stations.
But those who backlash are the same who backlash because it would mean more money for the cable co's as they'd need a digital box to recieve those channels. | |
| | | | dustman81
join:2002-05-28
Tallmadge, OH
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Here in NEO and I know WOH as well, that Music Choice comes free with Digital Cable as it uses the digital box to decode the channels. Luckly, most of the digital boxes offer A/V outputs and Dolby optical outputs so most people can run their digital box through their stereo. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| Re: Didn't know this was still available... said by Hall :I remember many, many years ago when I lived at home that my local cable company offered this. You simply split your incoming cable off, used one of those barrel pieces that ended with two screw terminals, and connected it to your FM antenna on the receiver. I was able to receive stations 80 miles away that I otherwise couldn't get. I remember the days before there were "stereo TVs" the cable company not only repeated FM broadcasts, but put a stereo audio feed of HBO and other premium channels on FM. That was pretty cool.
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Bush/Cheney '04! - Scared Straight
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it." | |
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alfnoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-18 | special splitters for this too They also used to make special splitters for this...
they look like a regular 2 way, but one is for FM and one is the Video.
peace | |
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kruser
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Chesterfield, MO
clubs:
| Charter had it Charter had it years ago. I guess it was actually Warner Amex back then.
They basically moved and squeezed all the FM stations down to the lower end of the dial and then from say 100 on up they supplied stereo audio from all of the pay movie channels.
I'm not sure if that is still the case as I have not had cable for many years. | |
| joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL | Here's a thought If a cable company announced they were ditching 9 HD channels to provide expanded FM service, do you think customers would complain? | |
| | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Here's a thought I don't see why cable companies couldn't repackage the existing FM onto digital TV systems. It would save bandwidth, and keep the existing services - everyone's happy. | |
| | | 
Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
1 edit | Re: Here's a thought said by en102 :I don't see why cable companies couldn't repackage the existing FM onto digital TV systems. It would save bandwidth, and keep the existing services - everyone's happy. Everyones not happy because that means they need to pay for renting a digital converter and/or subscribe to a digital package.
Some of these people just have HSI
There is no way to make both sides completely happy sadly
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Forum Posts:6500 | |
| | | 
lSteve
@astound.net
| Comcast and other cable company give the FM away as part of the digital cable package is southern California. They have about 30 stations and it takes up less bandwidth than an analog TV station! Comcast and cable companies can satisfy more of their customers without having to sacrafice the bottom line. They just don't want to carry FM radio anymore. FM radio shares audience and advertising revenues with cable. When you turn off the FM, you help eliminated the competition! | |
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crginc
Premium
join:2003-03-28
Thousand Oaks, CA
 ·Covad Wireless
| FM over Cable I think it depends on the area. Where I live behind some hills, I can only get a couple of FM stations off the air. So to have some available on cable is valuable to me.
I would recommend frequency shifting the stations and moving them right next to each other in say the lower portion of the band. This would be a compromise and allow at least one analog station or several digital stations in the upper half of the band.
If one is fortunate enough to get FM off the air, than having it on cable servers no useful purpose and receiving it over the cable in the presence of strong off the air signals causes multi-path distortion unless the cable company uses frequency shifting.
Since carrying FM produces little or no revenue, I am afraid it is an up hill battle to retain FM over cable. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| What's In the FA said by »www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c···business :
Comcast still provides the service in a few dozen cities, like Concord, Clayton and Santa Rosa, where it is required to do so under its franchise agreement.
If it is not in the franchise agreement, it is not clear what recourse the effected communities have (if any). | |
| | 
calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: What's In the FA What a good question!
The answer for Marin County is "Nothing", because we have no Franchise Agreement.
Our local county joint-agency can't get its act together enough to force one, even though they've managed to approve one or two mergers/acquisitions since the last FA expired.
A cynic would say this has something to do with the free "suck up" airtime that Comcast provides to local politicos and interest groups, both on community interest channels and in the (pre-empted) last 5 minutes of each half hour of CNN Headline News.
The only thing better than no regulator is one that is entirely in your pocket!
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
2 edits | They scrapped that years ago around here We haven't had FM on cable since TCI owned the system 15 years ago. About the same time TCI started offering DMX (remember DMX?) they dropped the FM from the system. They felt no need to offer free music when you could pay extra for DMX. | |
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Fatal Vector
@aol.com
| Re: They scrapped that years ago around here
Those who remember years gone by know that FM/TV recieption in difficult areas whas how Cable was born. It began with neighbors getting together and putting up a large antenna, amplifying it, then feeding it via cable to their houses to the benefit of all. Needless to say, it wasn't long untill the usual greedy middle men started building systems and renting access. This is how most systems were born. Some of the smaller ones in itty bitty towns are still around.
FM was part of the regular service back then, as were the out of town stations one couldn't get before. Then, after satellite started there was HBO which, in the beginning, would show a movie then, inbetween, they played video such as your view as you rolled down a bike path on a bike, with a vaguely classical music track. No endless Time/warner promotion back then.
Then, there came music choice, 30 channels delivered by sattelite. This was the eventual death knell for the FM service on most systems so they could fit in more sattelite channels AND make you pay for another "service" that had been, essentially free. On most systems, FM is long dead and all of a sudden we have all this hand wringing over a rogue comcast system about to pull FM? Their equipment must be ancient. It's likely time to come into the modern world. Any bets this system is in some backwoods area and just got gobbled up?
But then, I dont see why som clever person couldn't build a small CATV head end just like the old days to feed the neighborhood...who knows what might happen, eh?
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| | | zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Edmonton, AB
 ·TELUS
| Re: They scrapped that years ago around here I still have cable wired to my home stereo. In fact my home stereo actually has a cable coaxial input on it. Its the first one i've owned where you didn't need to use one of those adapters.
Anyways I really like using it, because all the stations come in so clear. Especially my favorite hard rock station from seattle (KISW!! woo)!. I'd hate to see my cable provider take it away. | |
| | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: They scrapped that years ago around here I have been listing to 107.7 The End via internet streaming for that last couple months. The sound quality really sucks compared to a good OTA signal as it is a 56K Windows Media stream. The only good thing is there is no commercials on the internet stream, but they run these stupid little Punk Rock Minute or Seattle Music history minute spots over and over again to take the place fo the commercials.
I think KISW streams too from their website, at least they used to...
I am thinking of putting up a big FM antenna, Heck if I could get the Seattle TV stations HD feed OTA I would drop Comcast cable all together. I can't wait until all the digital stations are full power. | |
| | | | | zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Edmonton, AB
·TELUS
| Re: They scrapped that years ago around here yah the streaming quality of radio stations leaves much to be desired. I even have this program on my xbox that streams shoutcast stations.
I still like good ole FM though. If you use cable FM the quality is so good, it almost sounds like a cd. That and you don't have to move an antenna around to find the perfect spot for each station. Now if only the could broadcast AM on cable too.. haha..
I don't think Shaw (the cable provider here) would stop broadcasting FM over cable anytime soon, I don't think its entirely uncommon for people to use it up here in Canada  | |
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Keeping it real
@comcast.net
| If it's soooo important... Why doesn't the city or municipalities work with it's own people and install FM repeaters in their area where FM is spotty?
Why? BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN IT FOR THEM!
FM is not a god given right. Cable companies exist because of profits generated from monthly billings. (Actually, any business stays in business when they make money)
I do not see why ANY authority has the RIGHT to FORCE a private business to offer ANYTHING for FREE. Got a little lesson for the few that don't understand.. NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE.
I agree, If they REALLY need the FM service, which they don't, they could TRY to get Comcast to put it on a digital line up. YES, the residents that want FM service SHOULD have to rent a box at their own expense. Comcast could track a free FM code on any box requesting the FM service on ANY box that has been rented for the typical $5.00 per month(again, for tracking only) - in the long run, I would love to see how many people would REALLY want it out of the entire population. Also, I believe that this service should only be available to anyone purchasing a minimum of Basic 1 and rents a box.
I do not beleive at all that Comcast or ANY cable company, satellite company, or microwave company (if any still exist) should be FORCED to carry any service that they have to give away for free.
And for the record, Music Choice, or DMX (which is still offered on Cable and Sat) is NOT free... NOTHING is free... it's just bundled or 'included' in the price of another service or package.
Sorry Marin County, it looks like the free meal is over. | |
| | wolfemanj2
join:2002-06-26
Salem, VA
| I can't listen to the radio with cable hookup.. I used to live in a very rural area in Virginia (wise county, far southwest va).. Over the air by a regular antenna, can't recieve much at all due to being in a valley (except for all those local country format stations).
For years I have split the cable for TV and for my Stereo reciever using a power booster in between to keep my signal strong. I could recieve broadcast 50-75 miles away with no probs (sometimes 100+ miles in varing conditions).
My cable operator's enginner (Charter is the company) tweaked the system for FM because of the same reasons I had.. can't get nada over the air.
he relayed a FM antenna at a very high mountainous location back to the main office.
I wished where I live now (Roanoke, VA) the cable company had this feature. All the stations are blocked with Adelphia. Maybe when Comcast takes over they will start FM.
The Roanoke FM radio market pretty much sucks most are Clear Channel that should say it all lol and with the location close to the Triad area of NC all thier stations can be easily pulled in. | |
| | |
Keeping it real
@comcast.net
|  Re: I can't listen to the radio with cable hookup..
So, your statement is incorrect.
If getting FM service, as some people in these forums have called a lifeline (ha!) in to an area, then I think it should be the responsibility of the FM stations to see that it is capable of being received.
Where are the regualtors telling FM Broadcasters to "ensure your signal reaches these areas as a condition of your license or loose your license!" ? huh? Why are they turning to cable companies and telling them that they have to sacrafice revenue (which no matter how you spin it is the reason they exist) in the name of a few people that want to listen to music?
FM radio is NOT a lifeline service. There is NOTHING on FM radio that you can't get off your local TV stations. And, if this were the case, then what about all those local community stations that are there (at the expense of your LFA fees)to bring you this vital community information?
This brings up another valid point. What are these local community stations really offering? A play room for those that want to play with A/V equipment at other subscriber's expense? Why aren't the LFAs looking closer at the programming being offered on these stations? Why does it always turn back to the cable company to pick up the bill? I will tell you why! It's because your LFAs can't do their job. They are like any other government body.. they make unthoughtfull rules at others expense - because it doens't impact their own checking account - and anytime THEIR rules fail (remember, they make them) they turn back to the cable company to ask for more moeny to fund their idiotic and not-well-thought-up-lame-brain-ideas that very rarely work in the first place.
The ONLY people that Marin county residents should be angry at is the LFA in the first place. Comcast is a business - it's primary function is to make money, pay their investors, and go on in life.. it's not to give stuff away for free. May all sound good to say that they cable companies and phone companies are only thinking of their share holders... got news, it's the share holders money that built your internet connection, HDTV service, digital service, an in many places, phone service.
Now, In short? Government should turn to FM providers to ensure that THEY are getting their FM signals into the local communities, not everyone else. (And for the record, AM radio is more of a lifeline than FM in the first place - you want classical music at dinner, buy a freaking CD or subscribe to Music choice.. MC is cheaper than a CD anyway!) | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| Re: If it's soooo important... said by Keeping it real:
I do not see why ANY authority has the RIGHT to FORCE a private business to offer ANYTHING for FREE. Got a little lesson for the few that don't understand.. NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. From what I can gather, the availability of FM radio over cable was never "free" - customer costs were either buried in basic cable TV rates or separate "basic subscriber radio service" rates. In this case, it appears to boil down to Comcast having an opportunity to make more money off 20 MHz of plant bandwidth than FM radio offered. Without FM radio specifically line itemed in a franchise agreement, there is really nothing legally stopping Comcast from discontinuing FM radio service. | |
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Fatal Vector
@aol.com
| Re: If it's soooo important...
The point is that FM was/is a heritage service for customers. CATV in it's infancy was created by a group of people who got together and built the antenna and paid for the equipment to distribute the signals to their homes, Since FM was right between channel 6 and 7, it did not cost more to amplify it and send it along with the TV signal. This service was in wide use for decades, untill all the local systems started getting sold to conglomerates, who then proceeded to do anything they could to rake in profits. The advent of satellite delivery was, in most cases starting with "Music Choice", the demise of this service because it gave them an excuse to use the bandwidth for more lucrative satellite delivered channels. As allways, the larger a corporation is, the less it cares about it's customers in it's never ending quest for the bottom line for dividends for it's shareholders.
We see examples of this still, as SBC gobbles up AT&T (Ironically, the baby eats the mother), Cingular gobbles up AT&T wireless and on and on accompanied by a chorus of screams about high prices, etc that are ignored. It's amusing to see MCI, which, as memory serves, was one of the major players in the breakup of the bell system being devoured by one of it's spawn creations.
Like I said: You can allways band together like they did in the beginning, erect another tower and so on...You never know what might happen... | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| Re: If it's soooo important... In other words, it becomes the role of municipalities to provide services once provided by the cable company? Maybe muni's should try that with video and internet. 
I'm not certain that I follow the logic behind AT&T and MCI as examples of similar sets of circumstances that led to the demise of FM radio over cable. The vulnerability of both AT&T and MCI are resultant from moronic decisions made in the boardroom, which had little to do with a never ending quest for the bottom line for dividends for it's shareholders. | |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| Re: If it's soooo important...
You obviously didn't follow my post: "As allways, the larger a corporation is, the less it cares about it's customers in it's never ending quest for the bottom line"
We see examples of this STILL..."
And I never said anything about it being the role of municipalities to "provide services once provided by the cable company".
I think corporations should be good corporate citizens and actually serve the needs of the communities they have systems in. Many of these small town systems were started because the area had crappy TV/FM recieption. I dont think it is asking too much for them to provide FM service, perhaps frequency shifted at 400 Khz intervals, to the community that the community has had for decades after they gobble up the system.. Other than equipment to do so, which they likely allready have, it costs them nothing on an ongoing basis. This is the kind of thing that local cable regulatin authorities should require.
We give these corporation legal rights and we should expect them to behave in a civil manner to the people they serve. If it weren't for those legal rights they take for granted, their shareholders wouldn't be raking in the money they are. | |
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FM Fans Scrap With Comcast
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