  vpoko Premium join:2003-07-03 Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| Quality vs. flexibility Quality vs. flexibility it ain't. People are willing to give up quality because most listeners can't distinguish a lossy format like MP3 from better-than-CD quality. Once the bandwidth is cheap enough I don't think anyone will have to sacrifice one for the other.
The part about discs going away in the future is common sense. | |
|
 |  |
 |  |   imrf Premium join:2002-06-06 Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by djrobx :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. | |
|
 |  |  |   yock Eschew the False Dichotomy Premium join:2000-11-21 Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by imrf :said by djrobx :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. I think the car idea is perfect. An enclosed space is the best environment for spatial audio. -- Statistical correlation need not imply causation. Technical Nirvana | |
|
 |  |  |  |   vpoko Premium join:2003-07-03 Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility Except that with a car it's impossible to isolate yourself from outside noise (and if it was, it wouldn't be safe).
You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |   imrf Premium join:2002-06-06 Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |   yock Eschew the False Dichotomy Premium join:2000-11-21 Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by imrf :said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. Real life is far from perfect. I have yet to see a perfectly designed spatial audio system where everyone in the audience can hear everything perfectly. Besides, that's what distance controls are for. -- Statistical correlation need not imply causation. Technical Nirvana | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Andoh
join:2001-02-18 Bettendorf, IA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility I guess that's OK as long as you are driving alone. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   yock Eschew the False Dichotomy Premium join:2000-11-21 Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by Andoh :I guess that's OK as long as you are driving alone. I'm as much a sound geek as the next guy (or at least as much as I can afford to be), but there comes a point where it's an obsession. I mean, c'mon, by your logic you'd rather not have it than to not listen to it "optimally." That's purely argumentative and I guarantee you all don't mean it. -- Statistical correlation need not imply causation. Technical Nirvana | |
|
 |  |  |  |   imrf Premium join:2002-06-06 Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| said by yock :I think the car idea is perfect. An enclosed space is the best environment for spatial audio. Unless you live in a hall or something a living room or home theater room is the same, but ideally with much better equipment. Car makers use crap equipment for their audio systems, while they can give you the audio in a 5.1 format, it won't be as accurate as a home theater system is, which is part of the idea behind DVD-A and SACDs. I have listened to the Acura TLs DVD-A system and it's ok, but not that great. | |
|
 |  |  |  Davros866
join:2001-07-23 Houston, TX
edit: March 22nd, @01:36PM
| "Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though."
DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! You are listening to the wrong layer of your DVD-A disk if you think it is. Dolby and DTS are compressed, lossy formats. DVD-A is an uncompressed, high bitrate, multichannel format. Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! | |
|
 |  |  |  |   imrf Premium join:2002-06-06 Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by Davros866 :DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! I never said it was. 
Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! Thanks, it already is. | |
|
 |  |  |   oliphant I Have 8 Boobies Premium join:2004-11-26 Corona, CA
| I have the TL and 5.1 is awesome and I'm glad I have it. Problem isn't quality vs flexibility...it's availability. Try to find everything on DTS, DVDA or SACD...few titles are available so of course they're going to be a tiny fraction of the market. I wouldn't buy a non-5.1 title again if given the CHOICE. -- Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
|
 |  |  |  |   SRFireside
join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Availability and price. Those systems are pricey and the media is pretty high as well. Although I admit $20 for a DVDA isn't that much more than some standard CDs out there going for $17, but then again I never buy my CD's at $17 neither. 
I'm guessing a few more years for the equipment to go down in price and the subsequent media will as well. I'll be living the high life (audio-wise) by then.
If you ask me hard copies will never go away. Maybe CD's might fade (in a few decades) but there will always be something out there. Look at how long they have been talking about paperless offices? It will never happen. | |
|
 |  |  |  |   imrf Premium join:2002-06-06 Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
edit: March 22nd, @04:32PM
| said by oliphant :I have the TL and 5.1 is awesome and I'm glad I have it. It's a shame that Acura didn't go for someone who knows how to make speakers. BOSE suck, they would have been better off scoring a contract with Dynaudio if they were aiming for high quality. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |   oliphant I Have 8 Boobies Premium join:2004-11-26 Corona, CA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility The same could be said about most of the TL...but then it would be $40-$50K instead of $30K. -- Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
|
 |  |  |   andrewe77 Gonads And Strife
join:2000-09-17 Blue Springs, MO clubs:
| "Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though."
I think you don't know what the hell you're talking about. | |
|
 |  |  |  |   imrf Premium join:2002-06-06 Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by andrewe77 :I think you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Hardly. But believe what you want. I don't care.  | |
|
 |  |  |  |   SRFireside
join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| To really reap the benefits of audiophile quality music in a car you would need a car that completely isolates the outside world. Not many cars do that. Personally I don't even want that. Not hearing the outside environment when driving is just asking for trouble. Yes high end audio in the car is wonderful, but having DVD-A or SACD quality would be a waste of money unless you are one of the few who want total isolation from the road and want the bragging rights. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |   yock Eschew the False Dichotomy Premium join:2000-11-21 Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility "Waste of money" is purely a judgement call and it really makes no difference here. There are applications other than entertainment for positional audio in a vehicle that could be useful. We also yet again get into this "optimal" argument. Why doesn't it have to be perfect to enjoy it? Last I checked most major movie theaters had positional audio. You all telling me that every seat in the house ps perfectly attuned to the positional audio system? Of course it isn't, but the effect is FAR from lost on the patrons. -- Statistical correlation need not imply causation. Technical Nirvana | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |   SRFireside
join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility What I am saying is the audio entertainment enhancements (audio fidelity) of the more advanced sound technologies tend to be lost in an environment like the car. Regular CD audio with good hardware to back it up makes for an incredible listening experience in the car. Surface noise, impedance, and other factors in your average vehicle (in my opinion) outweigh the subtle benefits the average ear would enjoy.
Four speaker separation can easily be simulated with crossovers (if even that). Sure it's not true four directional audio, but it works. Not that I'm trying to make a point over not having a 5.1 Dolby Digital Surround car system. Positional audio wasn't my focus at all. Just audio fidelity.
Yes some people would welcome SACD capabilities in their car and yes it's a judgement call on whether or not buying one for the car is a waste of money. But I did point that out on my last comment. For the average consumer it is indeed not necessary today. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   yock Eschew the False Dichotomy Premium join:2000-11-21 Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Well, 5.1 implies positional audio. It has nothing to do with audio fidelity. You can get four channels of distreet audio from a cassette tape...doesn't mean it sounds like a dream. =) -- Statistical correlation need not imply causation. Technical Nirvana | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   SRFireside
join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Well you brought up the usefulness of positional audio in the car. Not me . And stet I know there are vehicles out there that cut out outside environmental noise. I see the commercials all the time. But there are fewer of those out in the road than the noisy cars. My preference is to be able to hear a fair amount of what's going on outside. Makes for safer driving when you can hear things quieter than a siren or horn (or crash, etc). | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |   stet Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08 Warren, MI
| said by SRFireside :To really reap the benefits of audiophile quality music in a car you would need a car that completely isolates the outside world. Not many cars do that. Personally I don't even want that. Not hearing the outside environment when driving is just asking for trouble. I have a Chevy Avalanche (fully loaded) and when the windows are closed I don't hear much of the outside world at all. In fact, I hear more outside noises when I'm in my living room then I do when driving around. Also, doesn't Ford advertise that the interior of new F150 is almost completely sound proof? -- I am of the stars. I am called "Forever". Eternity courses through my veins. | |
|
 |  |  jazzy112
join:2003-12-05 Fargo, ND
| Quote: Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". To me both Sirius and XM sound like a badly encoded MP3.
Reply: Have you ever listened to Sirius or XM without using those stupid FM modulators? If not, you can't judge the quality of service. These technologies are very hardware dependent. If you buy cheap crap you will get crap in return. I do agree that they aren't wuite CD quality, but I have yet to hear an MP3 off the internet that sounds as good. Heck, even the sirius internet streams sound better than most MP3's you find floating on the internet. | |
|
 |  |  |  jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10 Youngstown, OH
·Dreamhost
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility I agree with jazzy112 , the quality is rather good (much better than MOST MP3s). I would guess that at least 85% of XM (I have not tried Serius) is at least the quality of a high-bit rate MP3 (at least 200kb/s). It is either that or listen to static-filled, commerical filled, land-based FM. I heard a few years ago that FM was to go digital, but that is apparently bust.
Comparing satelite radio with FM terestrial radio is like comparing a Porshe to a Saturn. The Porshe is ganna sound better. Period. Satelite is as high-quality as radio is ganna get in this age, your ganna have to live with it. | |
|
 |  |  |   BigFresh
join:2001-05-04 Stratford, CT
| The bottom line with me and my satellite radio was that I got similar quality to radio, WITHOUT the annoying commercials!!! A twenty minute ride in the car now gets 5-6 songs, compared to 1 to 3 (if I was lucky!) The bottom line is that there are different strokes for different folks.
To say the disc is dead is a foolish statement. Even if their preminition is true, it's not something we have to worry about now anyway. I think comparing music discs (CD's DVD-A) to video discs (DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray) is foolish. I can accept a bit of loss on my music if it gives me portability when I want it. Personally, I'm anxiously awaiting the decision on HD-DVDs! I've held off my collection until they come about, because 480p won't hold a candle to 720p, 1080i, p, etc!! | |
|
 |  |   TheMadSwede Premium join:2001-01-30 Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| said by djrobx :Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". Are you seriously frightened by it? What's the (real) damage if someone doesn't know (or care) about everything being the best quality? -- home | |
|
 |  |  |  mad_chemist
join:2001-08-06 Salisbury, NC
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Although I'm not "frightened" by people not caring about high quality audio, I do think that more titles would be released on SACD and DVD-Audio, if there was more of a demand for them. If people are satisfied with mp3-quality audio, then what's the incentive to produce a 5.1-channel, high quality mix? I'll add, though, that I'm not knocking mp3's -- I enjoy the portability and storage of mp3 (I can put 100 songs on a cd-r and play it in my car, for hours)..but at home, I enjoy my (few) SACD's and DVD-Audio disks a lot more, and I can definitely tell the difference between them and the mp3's (on my home theatre system, that is). | |
|
 |  |  |  |   TheMadSwede Premium join:2001-01-30 Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Exactly!
There's a place for MP3s just like there's a place for vending machines, fast food, simple restaurants and fancy restaurants.
The problem is not always the ignorance of the average consumer, as some elitists would try to maintain, but rather that the average consumer has neither the money nor the desire. -- home | |
|
 |  |  EnTRANCEd
join:2003-02-04 Dublin, CA
| said by djrobx :Never underestimate the human's desire to collect things. Television shows on DVD made 2.28 billion dollars in 2004, despite the fact that most were freely available on TV networks. Lots of people have huge DVD collections even though they only watch movies once. I think on demand content will be a huge player in the coming years, but a true paradigm shift away from collectable media will likely take much longer than a century. i know that rings true for me. once the bug hit me, i started collecting DVDs. i don't even get to watch most of them, it's just the fact of collecting them. from November of last year i think i collected 145 DVDs, and that's not counting each disc from a series (ie Friends). -- Life is all about ass ... either you are covering it, kicking it, kissing it, or trying to get it | |
|
 |   yock Eschew the False Dichotomy Premium join:2000-11-21 Fairfield, OH
| said by vpoko :Quality vs. flexibility it ain't. People are willing to give up quality because most listeners can't distinguish a lossy format like MP3 from better-than-CD quality. Once the bandwidth is cheap enough I don't think anyone will have to sacrifice one for the other. The part about discs going away in the future is common sense. I listen t some music through Rhapsody, but if it's anything I truly enjoy I get the CD. The difference is very noticeable. -- Statistical correlation need not imply causation. Technical Nirvana | |
|
 |  p71rock
join:2003-06-16 Saint Clair, MI | Argg! then How am I suppose to get my Anime on DVD then.
Humm, RePlayTV then I guess. | |
|
 |  |
 |  |   stet Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08 Warren, MI
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by 91439306 :Most people can't distinguish the difference because: a: they are listening on sub-$2,000 speakers b: they have never attended a classical music concert and have no idea what real music sounds like. c: a lot of people just never tried to tell the difference (ie: they never bothered to listen to the same song from different sources). -- I am of the stars. I am called "Forever". Eternity courses through my veins. | |
|
  UglyDork Premium join:2002-01-09 Buffalo, NY
·Vonage
| Discs are dead (of all kinds) If all kinds of disks are dead, then where will all the data that is served be stored on?
Some type of yet to be determined media?? 
Think about it. --
| |
|
 |   nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Discs are dead (of all kinds) said by UglyDork :If all kinds of disks are dead, then where will all the data that is served be stored on? Some type of yet to be determined media??  Think about it. Never heard of solid state drives, eh?
-tom -- "Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
|
 |   banditws6 Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18 Naples, FL | I imagine those little USB keys we carry around will eventually store hundreds of gigs of data, all on flash memory chips. No magneto-optical storage necessary. -- "I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
|
 |  |  jboyo
join:2004-06-10 North York, ON | Re: Discs are dead (of all kinds) Already done. There is (almost was) a company, www.go-l.com, that put a suped up custom version of XP on a massive Flash drive- instant boot (something like less than 2 seconds, I believe) | |
|
 |  |  jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10 Youngstown, OH
·Dreamhost
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Ever heard of optical memory, or the new memory Phillips is working on.
AKA 'Memory Cube'
My guess is the coming few years will yeald the long-awaited cube memory where a block the size of a sugar cube will be able to hold GB (eventually TB) of info at current USB drive prices. My guess is they will soon replace USB memory with optical, or Phillips' electrical. | |
|
 |  Samwoo
join:2002-02-15 Rancho Palos Verdes, CA edit: March 22nd, @01:34PM
| Hmmm isn't this article talking about.... (wth? my title isn't displayed in nested view?!) Broadband distribution? | |
|
 |
  anonzzzz
@sympatico.ca
| net replacing hdd's the average harddrive storage capacity is way too big to transfer over the net quickly. maybe what we need now is DVD sized (i mean its physical size) high-storage capacity ( 300 gigs )/ high speed drives/disks that let you basically take your harddrive with you wherever you go . so basically an external harddrive the size of a dvd or summin with 100's of gigs of storage. | |
|
  Unregistered user
@cofs.net
| I don't believe it I don't think discs are dead in terms of video. DVD sales aren't falling off just yet. Now, some folks may say that this will change once broadband can deliver better video, but just wait until that DVD you can now buy turns into a pay-per-view movie over broadband. Hollywood may love that idea, but consumers won't. And even if a broadband connection can deliver NTSC video, what about a 1080i image? That'll take considerably more bandwidth.
As for audio, sadly, many people are choosing lossy compression over quality. With hard disk space so cheap, I can't see why. OK, they may want to send the files to a portable player. Then why not allow the compression to be done by the consumer? That way, they download a good-quality file, then they can compress it for portability. Personally, I won't buy music that sounds like crap, and I have a problem buying overpriced CDs, so I guess I don't really buy much music at all these days. Am I in the minority here? | |
|
 |   Jason Levine Premium join:2001-07-13 Albany, NY
| Re: I don't believe it Well, I don't buy much music either, but it's mainly for financial reasons. My budget is too tight to spend $15+ on a CD that I'll listen to once a month at most.
When I do buy CDs, however, I typically get them used. There are some really good deals to be had on Half.com, Amazon, and the like. The most damaged purchase I made was one where the case was shattered. I simply switched it out into a new case and it was as good as new. -- -Jason Levine http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/ http://www.PCQandA.com/ http://www.urateit.com/ | |
|
 |  |
 |   mr_slick
join:2003-05-22 Lynnwood, WA
| I have all of the media I want (located in my optical non-moving parts high density 1" sq. computer wrapped in tin-foil, locked away and buried under a public park encased in concrete with an atomic battery and liquid nitrogen cooling and 1.2Gb encrypted wireless access to my LAN-- try pinning that on me **AA!!!).
I will buy none. Good NEW music/movies do not exist... it's all been done. and re-done and re-done. | |
|
 jboyo
join:2004-06-10 North York, ON | HA! Not with today's business models... Imagine trying to back up large data files when you ISP has puny caps! I dont download much, but I backup dozen's of gigs of client data to disc.
I cant imagine when ISP's will be that flexible to allow this without psycho prices! | |
|
 |  |
 |  |  Samwoo
join:2002-02-15 Rancho Palos Verdes, CA | Re: HA! Not with today's business models... yup... disk disappearing is more of a 22nd century prediction... in this 21st century... its not going to happen not with how slow our communications networks are, and the lack for any company's will to upgrade it. | |
|
  Scree In the pipe 5 by 5
join:2001-04-24 Mount Laurel, NJ
| always fascinating So how many people still use video tapes? Quite a LOT, I bet. Discs will be around a long, long time, simply because they are the most common and affordable methods. I would love to see a little microchip thing able to store 1 TB someday, but that's just it... it's WAY off in the future, at least to be affordable. lol -- What is the mind? No matter. What is matter? Nevermind. UH-HEH-HEH-HEH | |
|
 |  averagedude
join:2002-01-30 Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Re: always fascinating My wife tapes day-of-our-lives. She loves taping - it is easy and can be reused. She never has to worry about losing shows, unlike her dad who has lost shows with DVR. Stupid simple and easy to use. Yea I know, fuzzy picture and all, but she doesn't care, mostly listens while doing house stuff.
So the short answer for our family is - VHS tapes are here to stay. Not to mention the vast libarary of Disney videos on VHS. I am not about to loose that investment. | |
|
 netmasta
join:2004-06-06 Randolph, MA | Disks vs. Discs I doubt that discs e.g.: cd's & dvd's will be gone soon. But we can just forget about using floppy disks forever. I don't even remember the last time I used one.
BTW disk = magnetic media disc = optical media | |
|
 zentec
join:2002-01-05 Monroe, MI | Hey Wired! Never underestimate the bandwidth of a UPS truck filled with DVDs. | |
|
 |  garrettm
join:2002-05-23 Beaverton, OR
| Re: Hey Wired! I agree with Zentec. The reason the optical disc has existed so long is that it is dirt cheap for a storage medium that is portable. This is an irresponsible statement by Wired Magazine. Are they saying by 2012 or 2007? All of us in this forum can predict that someday there will be a new storage medium and probably have 95% confidence in the statement. Most corporate business plans span 5yrs at most so I don't think I would go throwing out my optical disc plans over the next 5yrs.
I wonder what the neighborhood bandwidth looks like that allows everyone to watch a high definition movie that releases that day and will be watched at 7pm that night. What about the download limits? Will those go away in the next 5yrs? | |
|
 |  Samwoo
join:2002-02-15 Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
| mmmm.... lets see if a ups truck hold lets say 1000 4gb dvds and has to travel 50 miles at 60 mph... how much bandwidth does it carry between the two location?
(1000 * 40 / ( (50 / 60) *60*60) = 1.3 gbps
 | |
|
 |  |  |