 |
 | | | Re: . If a US company decided to use foreign call centers wouldn't that company still be held liable for violating the do not call list? As for foreigners selling their products in the US, wouldn't they too be held to the do not call list? If you want to do business in another country do you not have to follow that countries laws? For countries with masses of shady fly by night operations pestering the hell out of us we should push for our government to impose sanctions against that country until it does something about the problem. | |
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| | | I know about this
i live in the uk and i used to work for a company who did this kind of marketing.
I was on the research side of the organisation so i had to call uk residents and do questionaires but twice i was put on the spam side (which was where the company's revenue came from) and i created several spam pages and sent them off into cyberspace. i apologise to everybody.
you'll be happy to know i dont work for them anymore | |
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 TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·CenturyLink
2 edits | You can run..... But you can't hide. This scenario was imaged in one of Robert Heinlein's books. In this future world you where fallowed around by a device floating in the air that hit you up with ad's and it was illegal to shut it off or damage it.
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Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you.
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|  AthlGrondPremium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: You can run..... Which Heinlein book was that? | |
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|  ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | said by Transmaster:In this future world you where fallowed around by a device floating in the air that hit you up with ad's and it was illegal to shut it off or damage it. That actually sounds LESS intrusive than the advertising methods I've seen in use today. When exactly does this future come about?  | |
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| | | what we all could do is flood the spammers with bogus purchases so as to crash out the M/F er`s who support the spammers. Somebody smart could figure a way to do it that wouldn`t get us tossed. | |
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kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL | Note to Vonage...... We need call screening/blocking! | |
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|  woody7Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | Re: Note to Vonage...... said by kaila:We need call screening/blocking! what needs to happen, but never will is for one of these morons to be made an example of.....I know I sound naive, but unless it really costs some one they will never go away....If the isp's really wanted it to go away, it would....I asked earthlink to block a couple of foreign countries, but they said they won't cause it would disrupt service for some people....I never visit these countries, so why should I get spam from them... .on the same note, block Florida, isn't that where it all originates.....
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BlooMe | |
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|  JimThePCGuyFormerly known as schja01.Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL | said by kaila:We need call screening/blocking! What are you going to block? You won't know what number they are calling you from in advance so you can't block it by number. They won't be "anonymous" so ACB won't work. And why is it just limited to VOIP users being the targets? Why can't a offshore VOIP spammer call POTS customers too?
This sux.
J
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I am Dyslexic of Borg. Fusistance is retile. Your ass will be laminated. | |
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| | kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL | Re: Note to Vonage...... It won't be perfect, but I'd be a step ahead if I could whitelist my phone book and send the rest to voicemail.
Good point about POTS, they have to be just as vulnerable to this as VOIP customers. | |
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| | | Fraoch
join:2003-08-01
Cambridge, ON Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy Cable
| Re: Note to Vonage...... said by kaila:Good point about POTS, they have to be just as vulnerable to this as VOIP customers. Perhaps not as there's an increased charge for this, i.e. SkypeOut.
But yes, it's still lower than full long-distance, so there is the potential, perhaps not as much as full VoIP though. | |
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| | |  RLF
@sftmyr01.fl.comcast. | "It won't be perfect, but I'd be a step ahead if I could whitelist my phone book and send the rest to voicemail."
I can do this with VoicePulse. It's called "Do Not Disturb." | |
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| | | | They can't call POTS lines because the DNC list applies. Just because the call comes from overseas doesn't mean DNC doesn't apply. The business is still subject to fines.
What we need is for the law to be clarified so it covers VoIP. | |
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| | | Just use VoicePulse. They have anonymous call blocking with prompting... | |
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| |  DerchPremium
join:2004-10-16
Cross Plains, WI | Re: Note to Vonage...... Easy for you to say, vp isn't in Oklahoma  | |
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|  knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | Amen to that, they offer everything the local phone company does except the ability to block anon calls or a call blocking list (like block all calls from XXX area code, etc) If they get that going via their admin page for customers, they would rock more than ever. I've yet to have any problems with my vonage VoIP line, it's been great! | |
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|  kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | A couple of months ago, I was getting harassing calls from this one number. I emailed Vonage and asked them to block that number. I never got a response from Vonage but amazingly the calls stopped coming.
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::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
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| | | | Re: Note to Vonage...... One item that should be considered is that CallerID can be easily spoofed with VoIP. I have an Asterisk server pointing at a variety of VoIP providers and can make my callerid read whatever I want by setting the outgoing callerid in SIP and IAX calls.
If a telemarketer really wanted to be mischievous they would setup overseas and spoof all of their callerids. | |
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| | | | One item that should be considered is that CallerID can be easily spoofed with VoIP. I have an Asterisk server pointing at a variety of VoIP providers and can make my callerid read whatever I want by setting the outgoing callerid in SIP and IAX calls.
If a telemarketer really wanted to be mischeiveous they would setup overseas and spoof all of their callerids. | |
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 oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Again the solution is simple... Fine the companies. They're selling a product from ABC Company. If ABC has a US presence hold them liable. Companies are routinely held liable for 3rd party contractors who violate the law. Hell if Viacom can be held liable for Janet's tit so can those who hire the telemarkers.
For those businesses that are overseas and have no US presence, a 50000% tariff (an effective ban) on their imports (whatever they're trying to sell) would finish them off unless they played ball with US law.
Then there's forcing VISA and Mastercard to close their merchant accounts and other more drastic measures that gov't can enforce should they chose to.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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| TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY Reviews:
·CenturyLink
| Re: Again the solution is simple... Sounds good but the country of orgin would howl and scream to the World Trade Organization that we where using unfair trade pratices.
What is so infuriating about this is You will endup paying for crap coming in on your telephone you do not want to hear, all of that bandwidth costs money and you are at the bottom of the money food chain.
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Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you. | |
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| | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: Again the solution is simple... I ALWAYS return the stuff. And I usually stuff a bunch of other ads without envelopes in there too...perhaps a dead bug  People say, doesn't hurt anyone but the poor person opening it...I say they shouldn't work for an organization who practices deceptive marketing then.
Same with junk USPS mail. Anything without my address on it goes out of my mailbox and into the outgoing box. Let the post office deal with reclaiming their litter.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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| | | | | Re: Again the solution is simple... Why stop there? Do like some terrorists and put Anthrax in them. | |
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| | | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Re: Again the solution is simple... said by ColdFiltered:Why stop there? Do like some terrorists and put Anthrax in them. Don't be a jerk.
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Win some of $250 in prizes. Try your luck with The Amazing Race Contest. | |
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| | | | | ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | Re: Again the solution is simple... Yeah. Reserve your stash for these foreign DNC VoIP exploiters...that s*** is expensive, after all! | |
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| JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO | said by oliphant:Fine the companies. Companies have of course been resisting measures to hold them responsible for the actions of whoever they contract marketing out to. But this is an example of where the "adspace" is going to be crowded with garbage to the point where even the most legitimate or relatively legitimate marketers will realize they are starting to have a problem getting their message heard and seen. When it gets to that point, I think we'll see the Direct Marketing Association and their large corporate members pushing for whatever measures are necessary to clean things up to the point where it's managable.
When the ultimate advertisers benefiting are US-based, they can be held accountable, and there should be some mechanisms to force most foreign firms to comply with US laws. | |
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| | | Sure, there are also people selling legitimate products, like Herbal Fake Viagra Pills, where there might or might not be a US presence, but I've already been called by Nigerian scammers abusing the Internet version of telephone-deaf-relay services, and I expect VOIP will be relatively simple as well. You can't put a 50000% tariff on what the Nigerians are trying to sell, because they're only selling promises they don't plan to deliver on, and in the classic version of the scam, the victim can't even complain to his local police because his involvement was obviously criminal (though newer versions, like fake lotto or the rich widow with cancer wanting to give away her money, don't always have this limitation.) | |
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 spamdPremium
join:2001-04-22
Cherry Valley, IL | They never learn. Why do we waste valuable resources on this? I mean really, do they really expect us to put up with this for very long if at all. Those loop holes can easily be covered or changed. But then again I hope it's over 150 calls a day. That way it will be a quicker death to that industry.
They got there hands bit off before why do it again? Or am I missing something here. | |
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| | VOIP voice spamming Couldn't you just check your caller ID before answering? Mine is set up to send calls from numbers that are blocked to voice mail, and I probably won't answer a call from a number I don't recognize. It's not a perfect solution, but it seems like it would stop most of it. I HAVE been getting a lot of empty voice mails recently; I wonder if it's already begun? Come to think of it, I've also been getting a lot of empty voice mails from a St. Louis phone number on my cell phone. Is anyone else experiencing any of this?
VOIP companies need to come up with a feature that will allow users to totally block selected phone numbers or IP addresses. | |
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 Ant718
join:2002-01-30
Bronx, NY | Whatever I NEVER answer a call unless I can see who it is calling on the Caller ID so problem solved for me. | |
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| JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO | Re: Whatever said by Ant718:I NEVER answer a call unless I can see who it is calling on the Caller ID so problem solved for me. Won't it start to be a problem when you get your 150th call for the day, after you've gone to bed? Your phone is going to be ringing, and the caller ID have to be checked, about every 5 minutes, under a load like this. Presumably they won't call between the most consumer-unfriendly hours of about 11 pm and 7 am - unless perhaps it's an outsourced collection agency call.
Should the burden really be on the recipient to pay for, and use, Caller ID and other technologies? What sort of burdens get imposed on those not readily able to use such technologies, including the elderly and the disabled?
If the numbers are anywhere near realistic, this has the potential to be a real example of "reductio ad absurdum", or an absurd and untenable result. Those who argue that it should be left up to the consumer to handle on their own, have to address a resulting situation that results not merely in the widely scattered waste of consumers' time that has less-than-obvious economic and social costs, but a level of abuse that starts to threaten the very usability of telecommunications devices. | |
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| | ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | Re: Whatever They do have line services that absolutely refuse any call incoming that does not have Caller ID enabled. I've come across some, and the pre-recorded voice message instructs you to use the *67 (or whatever) prefix to enable Caller ID for that call. | |
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| | Ant718
join:2002-01-30
Bronx, NY | said by JPCass:said by Ant718:I NEVER answer a call unless I can see who it is calling on the Caller ID so problem solved for me. Won't it start to be a problem when you get your 150th call for the day, after you've gone to bed? Your phone is going to be ringing, and the caller ID have to be checked, about every 5 minutes, under a load like this. Presumably they won't call between the most consumer-unfriendly hours of about 11 pm and 7 am - unless perhaps it's an outsourced collection agency call. Should the burden really be on the recipient to pay for, and use, Caller ID and other technologies? What sort of burdens get imposed on those not readily able to use such technologies, including the elderly and the disabled? If the numbers are anywhere near realistic, this has the potential to be a real example of "reductio ad absurdum", or an absurd and untenable result. Those who argue that it should be left up to the consumer to handle on their own, have to address a resulting situation that results not merely in the widely scattered waste of consumers' time that has less-than-obvious economic and social costs, but a level of abuse that starts to threaten the very usability of telecommunications devices. should I rec'v 150 calls a day I will drop the service. I doubt it will get that out of hand. | |
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 DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
 ·ViaTalk
·Vonage
| Couldnt ATT. MCI etc block them I would think it would be possibly for ATT, MCI and all LD to block them. These numbers would have to have CID, for system purposes. So the FCC can say block these people at the point of entry to the us, and the problem will be solved. The call has to go thru an ilec somewhere. | |
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okieopie1Premium
join:2004-02-06
Alexandria, KY | It's the telemarketers that will be using VOIP I read the article a little differently from the way everyone else is reading it. From what I understand the marketers will be utilizing VOIP to call everybody and their brother in the US because VOIP will be so cost-effective. They will not be targeting other VOIP users except in the normal random calling they do. "Do not call" lists will have no effect because they're not under US laws. Make sure you have anonymous call blocking on your account -- and that should take care of most of the calls. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
1 edit | Re: It's the telemarketers that will be using VOIP hmm if they are outside the US does this mean if they get me in a bad mood i can tell them im going to come and rip their head off and serve it to their family before i kill them and not worry about the FBI while giving a rude telemarketer a near heart attack. now id never carry out such acts but if they are outside the US its not like they can call the FBI as they arent in the US and protected by the FBI.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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1 edit | Has it occurred to anyone... Has it occurred to anyone that this might be more of the anti-VoIP crap that's being spread around by the disinformation agents working for the second- and third-tier local telephone companies, that do not want to see traditional landline phone service replaced by VoIP? I'll bet that if you dug deeply enough you'd find that a lot of this FUD has its genesis in the public relations firms hired by the "telephone associations" to push their agenda.
When the Internet first took off you started seeing negative stories about the Internet for the same reason - neither the phone companies nor the media types appreciated the fact that the Internet was taking away their business (people sent IM's and e-mail instead of making phone calls, and surfed the web instead of viewing so much TV or buying newspapers and magazines). So all of a sudden you started seeing all these news reports that if you didn't know any better would have made you think that the Internet was nothing more than a haven for sex perverts and thieves (even today it's rare to see the major media run a positive news story about the Internet). Well, if the phone companies hated the Internet, they loathe VoIP (except, of course, for the companies that are planning their own VoIP deployment) and they are certainly not above trying to manipulate public opinion to associate VoIP with negative things like telemarketing and lack of "enhanced" 911, while not mentioning the positives, like people saving some of their hard-earned money or being able to spend time talking to friends and relatives without having to limit conversations because a meter is running somewhere.
For stories like this, maybe we need a new acronym - PRUP - Public Relations' Untrue Propaganda! Because so far it is untrue - no one is receiving 150 calls a day, and if ever people started receiving that many calls you can rest assured the system would collapse under its own weight because no one would tolerate that. Heck, if I got 150 telemarketing calls a day you can bet I'd set up some sort of call screening system and ONLY accept calls from people I know, and I'll bet most other people would feel forced to do that also. And if you were telemarketing and your ad was one of the 150 that someone had received that day, what would be the actual chances of making a sale? People would become so immune to telemarketing calls that no one would be able to sell anything that way (oh, how I wish that were already true!).
One other thing, it is not true that it would be impossible to block such calls. As long as customers can set up their own filters, they can block calls from whomever they want. A few local phone companies and the VoIP company VoicePulse allow customers to filter calls in various ways based on the calling number. And you can prevent a lot of spoofing Caller ID over VoIP by matching the country and area code information to the IP address at the VoIP to PSTN gateway - if the call originates from an IP address in China but appears to have a U.S. Caller ID, you strip that Caller ID info out as invalid before releasing it to the PSTN. I think laws will be passed sooner or later to deal with Caller ID spoofing anyway. It may be a technical challenge to give customers the tools to block such calls but I can guarantee you those challenges would be addressed if everyone started getting 150 telemarketing calls a day! | |
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| cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Re: Has it occurred to anyone... said by WhyADuck:For stories like this, maybe we need a new acronym - PRUP - Public Relations' Untrue Propaganda! Because so far it is untrue - no one is receiving 150 calls a day, and if ever people started receiving that many calls you can rest assured the system would collapse under its own weight because no one would tolerate that. Heck, if I got 150 telemarketing calls a day you can bet I'd set up some sort of call screening system and ONLY accept calls from people I know, and I'll bet most other people would feel forced to do that also. And if you were telemarketing and your ad was one of the 150 that someone had received that day, what would be the actual chances of making a sale? People would become so immune to telemarketing calls that no one would be able to sell anything that way (oh, how I wish that were already true!). I agree. This really is FUD. Maybe there is a little truth in there somewhere, but the 150 number is just something someone pulled out of their ass. No one is ever going to get called 150 a day for marketing crap.
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Win some of $250 in prizes. Try your luck with The Amazing Race Contest. | |
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| | JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO | Re: Has it occurred to anyone... said by cdru: I agree. This really is FUD. Maybe there is a little truth in there somewhere, but the 150 number is just something someone pulled out of their ass. No one is ever going to get called 150 a day for marketing crap. Yeah, there is definitely an element of FUD here. But I can remember the day when no one would have believed they'd get a hundred or more e-mails a day making sleazy and often even illegal solicitations, either.
I have wondered for a while if the use of VOIP by overseas call centers didn't have the potential to make sales, and other, calls much cheaper and more frequent. Even 10, 25, or 50 unwanted calls a day would start to get pretty bad. | |
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| | I doubt it'd get that bad. I can see overseas telemarketers skirting the US's Do-Not-Call list and making long distance/international calls on the cheap using VoIP. However, I don't think that the amount of these calls will go from 0 to 150 per day overnight.
Instead, I'd expect to see these occur bit by bit with an increasing frequency. Eventually, though, the volume would increase to the point that home and business users would demand a solution from their phone companies. Unlike spam e-mails, these would be relatively easy to block. Just record the phone number of the telemarketer and block it. (Anonymous call blocking plus a whitelist would work too.)
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
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| | Three tone .wav file I have the same three tone .wav file on my Voip line that I have on my pots line. Makes the autodialer think that this is not a working number. Then my autoanswer comes on and says "Thanks for calling.........."
We never answer the phone !!!!! If I want to talk to you, I'll call you back....................on my Voip line!
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If you're not livin' on the edge, you're takin' up too much space ! | |
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| | | Re: Three tone .wav file said by Cyber2lz:I have the same three tone .wav file on my Voip line that I have on my pots line. Makes the autodialer think that this is not a working number. Before the DNC list started I had purchased this gadget from Radio Shack a few years back called the TeleZapper, which connected between phone and jack. Upon answering it would send a tone that supposedly duplicates the first tone of a non working number message tone that was supposed to make the autodialer of a telemarketer delete your number from their list. I did notice a sharp reduction in calls, not sure if I can credit the telezapper or not. | |
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| |  MinvarenPremium
join:2001-07-26
Houston, TX | Re: Three tone .wav file quote:
Upon answering it would send a tone that supposedly duplicates the first tone of a non working number message tone that was supposed to make the autodialer of a telemarketer delete your number from their list.
This used to be the case many years ago. Now that most telemarketers/"unwanted callers" are using PRI (ISDN), they can obtain what's called a SIT code back. The SIT code is the phone company's version of what happened on the call. So if their phone system gets a Connect SIT tone, then hears the first two tones of a disco(nnect) message (or even the whole darn thing), the phone system/automated dialer will laugh and stay connected.
Telezappers are pretty worthless nowadays. Get a privacy manager if you want to avoid unwanted calls. It frustrates dialers and the people behind them, and they can't be easily tested-for like a Telezapper. | |
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| | | | | Re: Three tone .wav file What is a privacy manager? | |
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EKS2
join:2004-09-14
Round Lake, IL | It's already happening to me Chase Manhattan bank cals me at least once a week with an automated system. The caller ID just displays the number, and if I answer it it is a credit card solicitation.
Funny thing is, if you call the number back it gives you two options only. One for applying for a card, and the other one to be added to their do not call list. It doesn't matter how many times I've been added to the list, they keep calling me. It really gets me when they do this crap at 9pm on a sunday. | |
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| | | Re: It's already happening to me have you considered that when you add your number to their "list" it actually verifies that you got the call and heard it.... maybe you should stop doing that | |
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| | | I wonder if enough of us who get these solicitations could in someway say O.K. to their pitch without it costing us, maybe by re-directing it back to their servers. If enough action was sent back to them, could it crash them? I guess it would be classified as fraudulent. they got the game rigged in their favor. | |
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|  jlramirezPremium
join:2004-10-01
Sugar Grove, IL | With AT&T Callvantage service, I've blocked the credit card co. from calling through for solicitation as I'd get the same things, along with payment protection, another great offer, etc. All calls without ID get redirected...
Two options they give you, send directly to voicemail or block entirely with a message "...not accepting calls from this number" or something along those lines generated by their system.
Doesn't ring the phone for me...
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. | |
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|  TrimlinePremium
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL
·Callcentric
| Here's the SIT tone.... place it at the beginning of your v-mail.
Cheers.
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FWD#537129 | |
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 pcscdmaChocobo Chocobo Random BattlePremium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA | Vonage sez: Regulate VoIP! | |
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| | ??? I'm confused. I have Vonage and the # is on the Do Not Call List. And guess what? I have no telemarketing calls.
If it's people using VoIP only (Skype), etc. Then fine. Pay for a real # and you will ditch this problem. | |
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