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trebzon
join:2001-09-03
Grandville, MI
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: .... no thanks said by PhoenixDown  :I understand that everything is compressed at some point, but Windows Media 9? ... uh, ... okay Although I am not a huge fan of this strategy either we should not give the impression that everyone will see the MS logo and have Windows Media Player all of sudden running on there wide screen HD tv but rather will be using the same codec. | |
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| | audiog
join:2004-08-09
Detroit, MI
edit:
March 7th, @05:44PM
| Yes I agree.
WMP 9/10(MPEG 3) are up for DVDHD certification as the file format for the next gen DVD players. The other format is Blueray( MPEG 4) backed by Sony and the other computer hardware manufacturers.
Half of the DVD governing body wants WMP 9(MPEG 3) format and the other wants MPEG 4 video and audio. This has caused the MPEG 4 backers to break from the DVD governing body and to form the Blueray group a independent governing group. Now the IEEE guys are trying to mend the breakup and now the Blueray group is considering supporting WMP 9 and MPEG 4 as file formats.
So WMP 9( MPEG 3) is a natural test bed for IP TV but they should be looking at MPEG 4 also.
MPEG 4 is 30% more coding power the MPEG 3.
This link will explain the difference between MPEG 4 and 3:
»www.telos-systems.com/?/techtalk···ault.htm | |
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| | | pnosker
Premium
join:2003-03-26
Stockton, NJ
clubs:
| Re: .... no thanks Er.... this link is Audio (Layers referring to audio layers). AAC is a competiting standard against MP3. mpEG4 and mpEG3 are not the same.
From Wikipedia:
MPEG-3: Originally designed for HDTV, but abandoned when it was discovered that MPEG-2 was sufficient for HDTV.
MPEG-4: Expands MPEG-1 to support video/audio "objects", 3D content, low bitrate encoding and support for Digital Rights Management. A new (newer than MPEG-2 Video) higher efficiency video codec is included (an alternative to MPEG-2 Video), see H.264.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpeg explains it a little bit. | |
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Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26
| Re: .... no thanks pnosker is right, MPEG-3 doesn't exists.
Also, the Microsoft video codec is known as WM9 or VC-9 not WMP9 which refers to Windows Media Player 9.
Both MPEG-4 (H.264) and WM9 have been shown to achieve comparable quality to MPEG-2 at half the bit rate.
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Don't worry, it's not loaded. ~~Terry Kath, musician, Suicide playing Russian roulette. January 23, 1978 | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
 ·Charter Pipeline
edit:
March 7th, @08:14PM
| This thread say's it all »www2.broadbandreports.com/forum/···ode=flat
SBC executives in San Antonio have been testing the carrier's IPTV service for 45 days or so. The service is being fed from Austin, where five local San Antonio channels are being fed from Echostar, compressed with Windows Media 9, and sent via optical link to SBC's San Antonio offices. More fleshed-out residential trials for IPTV will begin in April. Yeah, so they do see the benefit of fiber -- just not for their peasant fiefdom? 'Frick'n genuises have no frickin clue how their meager f2 copper pairs behave when wet -- even at low 5mbs speeds. Their ratty f2 copper pairs are gonna choke at 20mbs. What fools. "If you can't afford to do it right (FTTP) -- you sure as hell can't afford to do it over". This'll be one of those MBA case studies in corporate stupidity. Incredibly SBC can afford $16 BILLION for some corporate incest with a dying company like AT&T -- but they're upgrading their cash cow on-the-cheap in hopes that their customers are too stupid to know the difference. I can tolerate idiots, but not fools.
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Lord protect me from your followers | |
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XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| said by audiog :Yes I agree. WMP 9/10(MPEG 3) are up for DVDHD certification as the file format for the next gen DVD players. The other format is Blueray( MPEG 4) backed by Sony and the other computer hardware manufacturers. Half of the DVD governing body wants WMP 9(MPEG 3) format and the other wants MPEG 4 video and audio. This has caused the MPEG 4 backers to break from the DVD governing body and to form the Blueray group a independent governing group. Now the IEEE guys are trying to mend the breakup and now the Blueray group is considering supporting WMP 9 and MPEG 4 as file formats. So WMP 9( MPEG 3) is a natural test bed for IP TV but they should be looking at MPEG 4 also. MPEG 4 is 30% more coding power the MPEG 3. This link will explain the difference between MPEG 4 and 3: » www.telos-systems.com/?/techtalk···ault.htm HD-DVD and BluRAY support WMV9, the differeces between the two formats is surprisly little except the size of the storage. | |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| Re: .... no thanks said by XBL2009 :HD-DVD and BluRAY support WMV9, the differeces between the two formats is surprisly little except the size of the storage. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray can support anything because the arrangements of the bits are irrelevant to the disc's physical format.
HD-DVD uses 35GB and requires very little retooling work to be done in manufacturing to get the drives out.
Blu-Ray uses 25GB on a single layer disc and 50GB on a dual layer disc and requires some changes to existing factories so they can manufacture the drives. It supposed to be initially more expensive to manufacture than HD-DVD.
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"The bad news is that we are told that Michael Powell, one of Washington's better bureaucrats, is calling it quits today after four years at the helm of the Federal Communications Commission." - WSJ 2005/01/21 | |
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| AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| No kidding, talk about technology running backwards.
Soon in the future, we'll all be running Atari 2400s!
I thought we always upgraded to the latest and the greatest, not ran with a "standard" that's a generation out-of-date. | |
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Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26
| said by PhoenixDown :I understand that everything is compressed at some point, but Windows Media 9? ... uh, ... okay Could be worse, remember Real Media codecs? 
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Don't worry, it's not loaded. ~~Terry Kath, musician, Suicide playing Russian roulette. January 23, 1978 | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: .... no thanks Also consider what they'll be competing against. Anyone who has used Time Warner's Scientific Atlanta digital cable unit and service knows that generally speaking with some exceptions, the image quality out there in the cable sector is not very high.....I think you could generally field crap and be competitive if it's marketed well. | |
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| | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: .... no thanks said by Karl Bode :I think you could generally field crap and be competitive if it's marketed well. If current-day politics has taught me anything, it's that this philosophy is very much alive and well. | |
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| | Zein
join:2003-06-14
Painesville, OH | Re: .... no thanks I am just still wondering what they are going to use ADSL2+ or VDSL2, and what speeds are we going to get? | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
edit:
March 7th, @04:42PM
| Re: .... no thanks Words of wisdom from Kirk Brannock, SBC Midwest Networking President.
"we're going to offer 3 mb bpon technology to the side of the home and most users won't use that...."
FTTN because "Fiber is an unproven technology" perhaps?
Such vision for the future.....ack!
see the dialogue here -
»www.tricitybroadband.com/videos/unproven.wmv
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Westmont, IL
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·A + Net
·Mediacom
·RCN CABLE
| Re: .... no thanks said by batageek :Words of wisdom from Kirk Brannock, SBC Midwest Networking President. "we're going to offer 3 mb bpon technology to the side of the home and most users won't use that...." FTTN because "Fiber is an unproven technology" perhaps? Such vision for the future.....ack! see the dialogue here - » www.tricitybroadband.com/videos/unproven.wmv OMFG!
"we're going to offer 3 mb bpon technology to the side of the home and most users won't use that...."
What are they ...
Im not even going to say it.
Thank you very much for posting that. That immediately was sent to numerous people.. One of them who lives in Batavia, IL.
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Watch the Tivo Guy! It's cute! Turn down speakers though. kinda loud. | |
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| | audiog
join:2004-08-09
Detroit, MI | Look at my post above. MPEG 3( WMP 9/10) is not as good as the new MPEG 4 which is 30% more coding power. MPEG 4 makes MPEG 3 sound and look like MPEG 2. MPEG 4 is the first to pass some of the loss-less test. Very little phase shift. | |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs: | I thought that WM9 is the best codec available.
It may be because it is from Micro$oft (OMG!! I uzed doller sine l0l!) and everything they make sucks by default. | |
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| agdam
join:2004-01-25
Glendale, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| They are dumb to give up fiber.
They are even dumper doing it with microsoft.
Xvid codec is virtually royalty free and open source, and fully mpeg4 compliant.
Microsofts codecs are very expensive to use and lousy.
But who cares, you will pay for it. | |
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Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26
| Re: greed and stupidity Xvid? Oh please, this is not a serious codec. MPEG-4 is at least developed by serious groups (ITU's Video Coding Experts Group and ISO/IEC).
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Don't worry, it's not loaded. ~~Terry Kath, musician, Suicide playing Russian roulette. January 23, 1978 | |
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| peggypwr1
join:2003-10-06
Fremont, CA | The thing that pisses me off the most is when the article mentioned that SBC can prevent viewers from fast fowarding through commericals after recording to their DVRs. | |
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ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA
| When Microsoft handed the VC9 video codec to the MPEG forum they did so giving them a gift. It was then indoctrinated as VC1. VC9 is a public codec, VC1 its formal MPEG release, and WM9 a Microsoft PC-specific version for which they retain the right to make changes to the WM9 codec.
MPEG-2 video coded is old, ineffecient, etc. and I've know a couple of high-end projector manufacturers that were more than delighted to use WM9 HD clips instead of MPEG-2 based HD clips for demonstrations at exhibitions and conferences.
Using MPEG-2, a standard 19.1-Mpbs HD broadcast feed would require about 9GB of storage space and half that for VC1. And unless you have actually seen some of the Microsoft HD WM9 clips I think you would be standing on a thin foundation of bashing the codec.
A video codec is independent of the copy-protection and playback system being used. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | my current max sync is 1800k this gonna work? How much more bandwidth can adsl2 give someone like me that can't get that much speed to begin with? | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH | Re: I just read the article Signing a deal with Microsoft, though it may cost them $$$, doesn't mean they *have* to use WMV9 in the end. Sure, it might be considered money down the drain, but such is R&D. | |
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| | | audiog
join:2004-08-09
Detroit, MI
| Re: I just read the article WMP 9 is not a pure MPEG 4 format. That is the reason that the DVD governing body is in a fight over WMP9 or MPEG 4 for the file format for HD DVD. Pure MPEG 4 have 30% more coding power over MPEG 3. If the content is compressed at the professional level ( replication house) from the masters to HD DVD it is like seeing the original. WMP 9 is not as good of a format but it has file copy safe guards built in and it is not as good as the master. | |
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| The Chef
join:2003-12-09
| said by MarkyD :...This FTTN approach just seems extremely short sighted. What I want to know is this: Is SBC doing FTTP in new developments at least? Or are they doing FTTN EVERYWHERE? If they're not at least doing FTTP for new builds, something is seriously wrong here... They are doing FTTP for new builds. The article mis-stated when it said they were not doing Fiber to the Home. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Codecs aside... What about the other 50% of subscribers? Are they simply going to have no future other than what they currently have?
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Re: Codecs aside... Bingo!
These subscribers, I venture to guess, are people that are currently NOT served by remote terminals. So this unfortunately does not include me.
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] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
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| yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Re: Go MPEG-4 I hope so. I bet they won't though because MS already has all the stuff working for IPTV. | |
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Fraoch
join:2003-08-01
London, ON
| Will this look like crap? To distribute one channel of high-definition video, a network needs about 20 Mbit/s of bandwidth for MPEG2, 5 Mbit/s to 8 Mbit/s for Windows Media 9, and 6 Mbit/s to 7 Mbit/s for MPEG4. SBC says it will provide 6 Mbit/s to 8 Mbit/s per HD channel. Ugh. I've seen what bad MPEG2 can look like (Bell ExpressVu), I can't imagine how bad WM9 would be at less than half the bandwidth!:p | |
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XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL | Re: Will this look like crap? Lots of artifacts  | |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Video quality will be awful ... quote:
Using EchoStar Communications Corp.'s service as "the gold standard", the lab worked with consumers to analyze several levels of video quality and state their preference.
If Dish Network is their "gold standard", they're in real trouble. I'm a Dish network subscriber, and most channels are washed out, pixellated messes. You even see pixellation on their HD channels now, ever since they went to 3 HD channels per transponder. | |
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logcabinboy
join:2001-07-23
Whitmore, CA
clubs: | What about poor old Dish Network? How is this going to affect the relationship between the two? Was the partnership just something to hold their customers over with until lightspeed (lite-speed maybe?) | |
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| The Chef
join:2003-12-09
| Re: What about poor old Dish Network? said by logcabinboy :How is this going to affect the relationship between the two? Was the partnership just something to hold their customers over with until lightspeed (lite-speed maybe?) Dish Network will continue to be an option for those customers using ADSL (versus Lightspeed). People get all wrapped up in the "fiber" of Lightspeed and forget that approximately 50% of the customers will still be using ADSL. | |
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Mookfu
join:2004-12-06
Eden, NC
| FTTN could work! Who cares if they have FTTP right now? I mean its going to take others some time to get FTTP to their entire customer base, and it will still take awhile for the lucky few planned to get it now.
If done correctly I think FTTN could work. Just push the single over copper to the home for now, and when we start seeing a need for fiber we can run it from the already active node to the home. Of course they are going to have to do a lot of things right for this to work out, so lets just sit back and see what happens.
It seems to me some of you are sore because you don't live in verizon terroitory  . | |
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Inside SBC's Looming TV Service
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