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 | 
moe fuel to the fire
@optonline.net
| Re: Extortion That's OK, there's always sprint/nextel, t-mobile, and others that will bring jobs to the state.. so that's a bad bluff to call any Red state on...
GO FIBER GO!!!
Telcos are gonna learn sooner or later (like a certain Koren) that throwing a tantrum will get you nowhere fast, with or without nuclear weapons. | |
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| 
IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| I say install the fiber. Do you know how many call centers will be knocking on their door after they get this network up and running? One good example of this was posted here in the news the other day. »If You Build it, Google Comes | |
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| yac898
join:2002-12-06
Stony Plain, AB | if i understand this correctly, a GIANT telco, which had ALL of its underlying plant paid for by taxpayers, is scared of competition from a government owned consumer option? HAHAHAHAHAHA..... | |
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BK3
join:2001-04-10
Geneva, IL | Blackmail In my opinion, this is nothing more than economic blackmail. | |
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| Gilitar
join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL
edit:
February 25th, @09:44AM
| Re: Blackmail I smell a lawsuit coming.
Edit: You know the more I think about it, with all of Bellsouth's actions lately I'm going to dump them. C-ya BS!!! | |
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| | 
TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Blackmail said by Gilitar  :I smell a lawsuit coming. Edit: You know the more I think about it, with all of Bellsouth's actions lately I'm going to dump them. C-ya BS!!! The problem is that ANY company would do this. I'm thinking...gee, I'm glad I don't have BS/Cingular. But then I realized, heck, Verizon (Wireless) would do the exact same thing.
--
home | |
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lyls
@tele.dk | Re: Blackmail if any company would resort to blackmail then i guess the country and maybe even the western world is in a very sad state | |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: Blackmail Well since the government does the same thing all the time I guess we are all doomed.
--
Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
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| 
ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Hollywood, FL
clubs:
| I was thinking the exact same thing before reading your post.
Not sure who they would take this to in order to have Bellsouth whipped, but I think I would be looking for the correct entity now that it is public.
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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| |
Unregistered user
@cofs.net
| Re: Blackmail Take it to the court of public opinion. Seriously. If they want to force a vote in Lafayette, make this threat public. Make BellSouth look like the extortionists they are.
If this thing does end up going to a vote, then those who favor muni broadband have an obligation to band together and help the people of Lafayette. Make that city a test case in the use of grassroots organizing and fundraising. It has to start somewhere. | |
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| | | 
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Blackmail Sadly propaganda doesn't work that way.
The more they publicize Bellsouth claims that the fiber plan could result in layoffs, the more "layoffs" and "fiber plan" are discussed in concert.
"Joe" doesn't pay much attention to the conflict, but he does remember some talk of job losses. Better vote against that!
By simply injecting the possibility into the debate, you've scared off would-be voters too lazy to really dig in and understand the issue. | |
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| | |
unregistered
@corning.com
| "Re: Blackmail
Take it to the court of public opinion. Seriously. If they want to force a vote in Lafayette, make this threat public. Make BellSouth look like the extortionists they are.
If this thing does end up going to a vote, then those who favor muni broadband have an obligation to band together and help the people of Lafayette. Make that city a test case in the use of grassroots organizing and fundraising. It has to start somewhere."
That's the problem. When it goes to the public they get scared. Every person who works for cingular, their spouses and friends will vote no. Blackmail works. | |
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| haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA | If they followed through with it they could be sued...that was their big mistake...hell that kind of comment could be construed as a sort of economic terrorism with the patriot act. | |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: Blackmail What would they be sued for do you suppose?
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
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| | | haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA | Re: Blackmail Coercion, illegal business practice, breach of contract... | |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| Re: Blackmail said by haplo2112 :Coercion, illegal business practice, breach of contract... Since when is Coercion illegal and what contract is breached?
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
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| 
packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | *cough*
We as citizens need to take a stand.
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Who are you going to pay off today? | |
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| 
Steve
ho ho ho dammit
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA | I believe the proper term is "extortion"
 | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Blackmail Extortion?
All it means is BellSouth adapted well to Louisiana. | |
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| tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL
 ·Speakeasy
| said by BK3 :In my opinion, this is nothing more than economic blackmail. It's called Extortion.. a felony in most states..
I think the appropriate punishment for Bell South Inc. would be the forfeiture of all assets in the state and a lifetime ban from doing business in Louisiana.
That would put All mega corps on notice. Make an economic threat and pay the price in spades. | |
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| | footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO | Re: Blackmail Saying they're going to take their ball and go home isn't extortion. OK, it is, but I don't think you can charge them with extortion in a courtroom. | |
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| 
Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
| And what pray tell, will bellsouth gain from their own actions?
And all because of one city wanting to provide broadband to their own citizens when BellSouth has failed to do so.
Just pathetic, straight pathetic. Pathetic enough to make me want to dance that I do not live in BellSouth Territory.
I got Qwest to play with.:D
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Just say "no" to bad code | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| what i dont understand is if a company doesnt want to provide a service to people who are will and able to pay for it why do they protest a city offering something they never will.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
Rob
In Deo speramus
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
edit:
February 25th, @09:44AM
| Ashamed.. I'm ashamed in BellSouth. They aren't playing very fair. They had years to get their act together w/o any interference, now that other counties are tired of their crap and want something done, BellSouth screams foul. Not very nice. I hope Lafayette takes them to court and wins.
--
YourIP.US - Quickly Locate Your IP!
EasyWhois.us - It's Never Been So Easy! | |
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yock
Eschew the False Dichotomy
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Ashamed.. These are the kinds of battles small localities have to deal with. Bellsouth shouldn't have to keep their call center there if they fear losing revenue. residents should be prepared to deal with these kinds of repercussions when they place these services in the hands of the government. What they should consider is the addition of government jobs. Will the new network require many new government employees? Will a new fiber network help attract other business and residents, and thus increased tax revenue?
They could come out very much on top by building a municipal fiber network and kicking out Bellsouth, and they wouldn't have to sacrifice jobs or tax revenue in the process.
--
Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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FiberNow
@tsged.com
| Re: Ashamed.. True, they shouldn't have to keep their call center here is they fear losing revenue. The only question I would ask is what does the Cingular Call Center have to do with fiber lines/service at all? It seems like this is just a dirty blackmail scare tactic more than anything else. | |
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yock
Eschew the False Dichotomy
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Ashamed.. said by FiberNow:
True, they shouldn't have to keep their call center here is they fear losing revenue. The only question I would ask is what does the Cingular Call Center have to do with fiber lines/service at all? It seems like this is just a dirty blackmail scare tactic more than anything else.
It has everything to do with the class of the worker. A tech-savvy worker will no doubt gravitate to the exciting new jobs created in fiber optic network installation, management, and support. That beats helping, in gross detail, a clueless cell phone user how to send a text message using only number keys. I'm sure you can imagine.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
edit:
February 25th, @10:48AM
| Re: Ashamed.. quote:
Bellsouth shouldn't have to keep their call center there if they fear losing revenue. residents should be prepared to deal with these kinds of repercussions when they place these services in the hands of the government.
And where you see it in the hands of government, when it's small-town government, I see it in the hands of people.
It's a scare tactic, nothing more. Don't buy into their rhetoric. Threatening to fire people from a wireless division if you create fiber competition is utterly classless. They're going nowhere.
If there is money to be made in an area, it will be served, regardless of whether or not one city runs fiber to a few thousand homes.
Perhaps it forces Bellsouth to upgrade their paltry network upgrade plans and consider fiber instead of scattered ADSL2+.
BellSouth isn't going to just pack up shop and run away because a muni is developed. If anything they'll be forced to improve, perhaps eliminating the NEED for the muni. | |
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yock
Eschew the False Dichotomy
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
edit:
February 25th, @12:47PM
| Re: Ashamed.. I'd rather see this tiny little town call Bellsouth's bluff, to be honest. They should be ready to lose Bellsouth, regardless of the reasons because that's the cost of advancement.
The perception of government is a personal thing. I'd certainly prefer this to happen at the lowest level of government as possible, but I'd rather have a corporation pump new money into the town rather than recirculate existing funds. Money has to come from somewhere and government jobs don't subsidise themselves like corporate jobs do.
--
Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Ashamed.. quote:
I'd rather see this tiny little town call Bellsouth's bluff, to be honest.
I imagine they will. They've received national attention, their dedicated to the idea, they've paid court fees to fight Cox and BellSouth.
The problem is when Bellsouth and Cox force this to a vote, both of those companies will reach into their endless pockets to wage all-out PR war, convincing people who otherwise know nothing about fiber that it's some kind of evil plan that will burn through tax funding and leave them all in ruin....
That's when I start to get irritated.
Disagree, fine. Pass bans and spend millions on disinformation, not so fine. | |
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| | | | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| The counter to their threat is to make known that type action will result in a move to revoke their various certifications that allow them to operate in the entire state.
The threat of significant revenue loss is the only thing that will motivate the opposition to play fair. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Ashamed.. The threat is aimed at the regular joes in the community who will hear it, and think that if they support this fiber plan, people will lose their jobs.
It's propaganda, nothing more.
The more the city addresses it, the more "job losses due to fiber plan" gets talked about in the community. These companies are masters of bullshit and media manipulation. | |
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| 
ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA
| When I first read the newsbit's title i thought that Bellsouth was talking about reducing BST labor force to offset work reduction as business is lost to Muni Broadband. Its not only expected, but normal for any business to reduce workforce upon lost work.
This, on the other hand, is blackmail. Since Cingular is a co-owned company of BST+SBC I find it hard to believe that they would get away with it since Cingular and this Muni effort are not really competing businesses.
As such, I would have much more respect had they simply said they would reduce BST workforce in the area by 50% and double to triple POTS deployment. But, in reflection I can see this as something they would NOT want to do as it would just drive customers away faster.
So, its a lose-lose situation for everyone. Curious, what was the public vote on Muni Broadband in Lafayette? Was there a poublic vote? | |
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| |
FiberNow
@tsged.com
| Re: Ashamed.. There will be one now, because Bellsouth won in court. Off topic, but it seemed almost like a dirty decision. Bellsouth filed suit a day late, which the judge completely ignored. He also ruled from the bench with no recesses in a couple hours, with a whole 10 days alotted for the hearing. Anyway, the thing that worries me about a vote is that there will be alot of misinformation, and people looking at this as a money only issue, instead of weighing costs vs. benefits for the future. | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| Re: Ashamed.. The judge didn't force a vote on this. The vote will only happen if the BS shills get enough public support for it, which they failed to do the first time.
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Jose A. Hernandez * IT Technician * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * My website: Zerochill | |
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rstrandb
Premium
join:2003-04-17
Albany, GA | Truth is...... they'll probably yank the call-center anyway and outsource overseas anyway. Screw them, put in the fiber.
--
Deep thanks to the people who defend America from those who would do us harm. | |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL
clubs: | Re: Truth is...... That's the whole reason I won't buy a Dell computer anymore. When I call in for support, I want someone on the other end that can understand me, and someone whom I can understand. | |
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zabes63
join:2003-04-05
Batavia, IL
| This is nothing new SBC always threatened to whack the locals if the Tri Cities project had ever moved forward. Now, we all have the benefit of knowing that they'll cut jobs regardless of what a muni does.
It was the same thing with the lawsuits against any muni that dares to go ahead and do it. We all know it was what was next in the bell's anti-mini playbook.
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With a recovery like this... who needs a recession? | Tri-City Broadband | |
|
JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | How many jobs will Lafayette's network provide? I couldn't find information about how many jobs Lafayette's network would provide. Does anyone know?
Wouldn't jobs for Lafayette's network remain local, and not be subject to corporate threats? | |
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|
See 7 replies to this post |
|
masterwolfe
Resident Redneck
join:2001-03-07
Hiawassee, GA
·Windstream
| Out-sourced already One of the reasons I left BellSouth Fast Access (beside connection issues) was because their Tier 1 tech support is in the Phillipines. I had major problems understanding and getting myself understood when I would call in with a problem.
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Comcast HSI, Huntsville, Alabama | |
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ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA
| Re: Out-sourced already Really? I've spoken to several people within the Digital Services Group and they have no problem understanding and communicating with the Philippine Call Center (Help Desk). Unfortunately, their opinion of the HD in India is quite different and quite negative. | |
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masterwolfe
Resident Redneck
join:2001-03-07
Hiawassee, GA
·Windstream
| Re: Out-sourced already said by ColdFiltered :Really? I've spoken to several people within the Digital Services Group and they have no problem understanding and communicating with the Philippine Call Center (Help Desk). Unfortunately, their opinion of the HD in India is quite different and quite negative. Hmm I know the first couple of times, the people sounded like they had an East Indian accent, and finally one time I was having major difficulties understanding the gal, so I asked, and she said they were in the Phillipines. So they are in both??
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Comcast HSI, Huntsville, Alabama | |
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| | |
CC Wiz
@202.82.x.x
| Re: Out-sourced already It is quite normal for operations like this to touch base both in New Dehli (India) and Manila (Phillipines), as it is cheaper to run the operations out of India than it is to run it from the Phillipines.
They will attempt to route the very basic issues to India, whereas the more complex will be routed to the Phillipines where the linguistic skills are much more sophisticated than it is in India.
Essentially, it is all about the dollar.
India -- very cheap, low quality
Phillipines -- cheap, medium quality
United States -- very expensive, medium to high quality | |
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digital k
Premium
join:2003-12-25
| As a Bellsouth Customer  I am very sad to do be doing business with them. I read the story and it seems that BS and Cox cable are trying to kill this. I don't see what the big deal is , and I hope like hell Lafayette decides to go thru with it, if for no other reason than to be able to thumb their noses at greedy Bellsouth. | |
|
Sysadmin
NoBama
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-07
Sacramento, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Minority owner I think the city should move right ahead and proceed with the fiber-optic network and call their bluff.
Bell South only owns 40% of Cingular. I don't think the majority owner (SBC) would think that is a cost effective move and would nix any move attempt on Bell South's part. It will take them a while to recover from the AT&T Wireless merger as well.
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The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax. Albert Einstein. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| You know I'll bet you BellSouth is just looking for an excuse to close down this service center anyway, as it is a call center Bellsouth wants to outsource and what better way of doing it by blaming a city for the move. What a bunch of corporate assholes. I hope Lafayette tells BellSouth to go for a walk in a 'gator inhabited swamp. And Lafayette can call BellSouth bluff by telling them, if you close down this call center we will help to people you screw over find other work.
--
Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you. | |
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Drex
Beer..It's What's For Dinner
Premium
join:2000-02-24
La Place, LA
·AT&T Southeast
| New Business Wouldn't the city of Lafayette be able to benefit from this fiber network by being able to attract new businesses? They'd be able to offer them fast, reliable (we hope) connections for cheap.
--
Star Wars Galaxies -- The best form of birth control on the market. | |
|
| Maltese
join:2004-04-15
Lake Worth, FL
| Re: New Business Bellsouth FastAccess technical support is already overseas... so I say go for it... We as Americans should be up in arms as in Japan they get around 100mbit to their homes for the same price we pay for 4-6mbit. Greedy Corporate America. Why give 100 mbit when they can milk you for 1.5-6mps..
I say screw them all... let our communities do it ourselves and let them bid/compete for our connections. | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: New Business Would you support a monopoly in the telecom industry if it could get you 100Mb/s? | |
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FiberNow
@tsged.com | Re: New Business Yes, because that would certainly be better than the monopoly that currently exists here that offers only 3 megabits/second. | |
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Drex
Beer..It's What's For Dinner
Premium
join:2000-02-24
La Place, LA
·AT&T Southeast
| From the article I read the USA Today article and just love this part:
quote:
It told local regulators in Lafayette that they should use the FCC's "Part 64" accounting rules, which have long been imposed on local phone companies, as a benchmark to set rules for the city. Lafayette countered that those rules would be an unnecessary burden.
Yet within days of making that argument last fall, BellSouth turned around and asked the FCC to relieve it of the Part 64 rules for its broadband services. It complained that the rules were onerous and outdated and force carriers to keep "extensive and tedious" records.
--
Star Wars Galaxies -- The best form of birth control on the market. | |
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flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA
| The begining of the end This could be a tipping point in the war for the Telco's
where they might win another battle but they will lose the war.
It goes back to the old saying cutting off their nose to spite their face.
It think they should pull their call centre it would do wonders for their already tarred image.
They are already looking for an excuse to send it to India anyway.
Flushls | |
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DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| *shrug* A perfectly legal and legitimate tactic. I can see the Bellsouth execs now: "Hmmm. Our call center in Lafayette is...costly. It'd be cheaper if we moved it to Tampa, Call Center Capital of the World. Ah well. Such a pity."
It can't truly be called extortion. The definition of extortion is 'Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage.' Bellsouth is not really attempting to do this. Let's look at the article:
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Oliver said a successful LUS venture could create a monopoly in the parish.
Why would BellSouth want to keep all its operations in a parish where it had no other significant business interest, Oliver asked rhetorically.
The call center, which handles customer service tasks for Cingular, could be located in "Timbuktu" and still perform the same services, Oliver said.
"Would you still keep people there?" Oliver said.
---
I cannot fault the man's logic; it is inescapable. Why put money into a community that they cannot make money from? They used the same logic at Earthlink...and to Earthlink's greater profit and increased stock values. I honestly am unable to fathom why a for-profit corporation would think otherwise. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: *shrug* quote:
Why put money into a community that they cannot make money from?
That buys into the logic that they can't make money there. Says who?
Because 1-2,000 people sign up for fiber in a Southern city, suddenly it's a profit graveyard? Because of one small competitor?
It's one of two things (or both):
Propaganda designed to get locals tying job losses to the fiber plan.
An excuse to use as cover for a pre-made decision to send those jobs overseas. | |
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Soundfx4
join:2005-02-08
Roanoke, VA | A$$hole corporations Mother f**king Greedy Corporations. This is exactly why the USA is so far behind in technology. Sh*t heads... | |
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| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: A$$hole corporations The US was the leader in the telecom world till sometime in the 80s.
Sure, blame it all on corporations. Whatever lie you want to believe is fine wth me. | |
|
AboutBell
AboutBell
Premium
join:2004-12-13
edit:
February 25th, @12:21PM
| The big picture Looking at the big picture. The benefits of a public FTTH infrastructure should more than offset the loss of jobs in the long term IMHO.
Lots of high tech companies are looking for just that sort of infrastructure to set up shop. Google just announced they are thinking of setting up an office in a tiny town in Oregon partly because it's wired with a public fiber infrastructure.
It's still too early to tell if this is how things should be heading but this public information highway way of thinking is even farther ahead in Europe. Sweden is the leader. I think a large percentage of their country is wired with public fiber to the home.
It's not that new of a concept. After all, if it makes sense for the highways to be publicly owned then why not the information highways?! | |
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jmuskratt
join:2000-11-21
New Orleans, LA | Four letters for Bellsouth to contemplate... RICO. | |
|
BellSouth: Lay Fiber, We Yank Jobs
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Send them on