 
schmunk
Premium
join:2001-03-03
Defiance, OH
2 edits | Who needs the Government? They spend your tax dollars like a child in a candy or toy store. More like a thief with a stolen credit card. | |
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bpl-pro
thumbs down from:
Andrew J 
|  Re: BPL faster than CABLE
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| JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO
| Re: Who needs the Government? Oh, yeah. There's no paradise like Waziristan, Mindanao, the Golden Triangle of Asia, the Amazonian borderlands, the outer provinces of Afghanistan, or the Asian republics of Russia. Why is it that all the real hot spots have no functioning government? Or did I misunderstand the meaning of "hot spot" in those contexts? | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | What's new? This is apparently how this government works. You pay the right people you get what you want. It just become more obvious as the days pass.. Get used to it as it will never change. EVER! | |
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DirtyMic
join:2003-11-19
Pompano Beach, FL | Amen ^ see subject above. | |
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soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
1 edit | Citizens will do Nothing It will never change because people are too lazy to care. Most people just wants service that runs and don't have to think about. Only techophiles are hardcore about his subject. Politicians take lobbyist's money because it keeps them in office. The only way to stay in office is to run misleading ads to an uninformed public willing to believe lies told in campaign ads. Also Broadband does not rank very high on the political scale. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Re: Citizens will do Nothing I see and agree..
Problem is most people think ( oh my thoughts don't count ).
Well the only thoughts that don't count are the ones not said. | |
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some guy
@milwwi.ameritech
thumbs down from:
Andrew J
| Re: Citizens will do Nothing to government, the only thoughts that don't count are the ones made by people who didn't donate a few thousand to their campaign fund/party
a letter to your senator will only get you so far--a letter with a donation reciept will get you anything you want | |
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HardwareGeek
join:2003-11-15
Brooklyn, NY
| tax We all forget about the tax issue. If our local governments set up broadband even those who don't use it will be taxed in a way because of it. Plus if the local government is having a fiscal crisis you will see crappy service.
Plus if the state runs your wireless-net imagine all of the filtering they would have to add and all the lawsuits they will be hit with. The ACLU, the Parents against Obscene Material, The anti-religion people, the pro religion people all trying to get the state or town to allow or disallow something. Broadband run by the state will be like Broadband from China. Plus imagine how easier it would be for the government to spy on people.
We all think it's good because we hear the word FREE well we live in the USA there isn't anything free.
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Email/MSN: Michael at hardwaregeeks.comAIM: MikeR35292 | |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: tax You are missing the point.
I use the internet, so the government should offer a free service for my needs.
It's in the constitution.
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
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HardwareGeek
join:2003-11-15
Brooklyn, NY
| Re: tax Where in the Constitution does it say the Government has to provide you with a luxury for free?
Hell if that's the case where is my Free Cable TV? Where is my Free Medical? Where are the free hookers located at?
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Email/MSN: Michael at hardwaregeeks.comAIM: MikeR35292 | |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
 ·Comcast
| Re: tax The constitutionality of free Cable and Medical are easily proven. I spend monies on those, so that is where the government needs to be helping me out.
I just don't see support for free hookers at this time, since I don't use them. But since the constitution is a living document, perhaps next year I'll take a trip to NV and see how how the founding fathers had intended for that all along.
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
1 edit | Not all community broadband projects use tax dollars.
And suggesting a small town running fiber means they'll start spying on you is baseless. | |
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Orwell1984
@fdn.com
thumbs down from:
Andrew J
| Which Telco do you work for? | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Polititions are paid by our tax dollars, but since that doesnt cover a new BMW every year they accept kickbacks from big business.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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PliotronX
My Katamari's Bigger Than Your Katamari
join:2000-05-13
Sunland, CA
| Perhaps some of the munis want to set up free access (which may or may not be a good idea, IDK but it's not the point I'm trying to make), but most of the interest in muni-built access I've read about is for setting up broadband of some kind where the CLEC's and cable co's have simply avoided wiring up or are raping the residents. After setting that up, the users still pay for the service, just as if a CLEC or cable co. were selling the service, but the CLEC's/cc are just too comfortable denying broadband to certain communities, and blocking the ability to set up their own BB is just wrong IMO. | |
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The_man_with_no_name
@Dial1.Cinc
 from:
sweintz
thumbs down from:
Andrew J
| Yes and no. While municipal broadband's service may suck in non-technical areas, it does do one very important thing. It provides competition. Areas with municipal broadband have seen a sudden, sharp decrease in the cost of service across all providers.
Just because someone offers munibb doesn't mean that you have to sign up for it. If you dislike the service, there is competition. What this does is force the local providers to be more competitive... which is, of course, the exact opposite of what these companies want to do.
Anti-munibb laws are inherently anti-competition bills wrapped in "consumer protection" clothing. It's a scam. We should have a nationwide wireless internet by now. Let companies compete fairly or not at all. Fortunately most of these bills are inherently flawed. They're either too weak and easy to bypass, or too strong and likely to be tossed out. The one in Texas is worded so broadly that it forbids local munis from even "providing information." That's right, your local city council can't even have a website. LOL. There's no way that's going to stand on appeal.
All these companies are doing, in the end, is throwing fuel on the fire of telco distrust. Anti-trust movements take time to build, but when it happens... look out. | |
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redseven
@uoregon.edu
thumbs down from:
Andrew J
| Re: Yes and no. Ah, information instead of cynical, libertarian cant. It's like a fresh breeze from a faraway land. You are a better man or woman than 99.9% of the people in this country.
Unfortunately, The Man with No Name, your hopeful point about "all these companies are doing in the end is throwing fuel on the fire of telco distrust" is not likely true, as you can see by looking at most of the other posts on this issue.
No, all that happens in the US when people get screwed again is that we all distrust the "govurmint." That's because in the US, we have about four PREFAB discourses that tell us tools (1)to be quiet about the crap going up all around us, (2) to sit on our asses politically, (3) work ourselves to death, and (4) obey the clergy. For instance, the upshot of a lot of the posts is: "Politicians take our money and buy BMWs and then them rich people buy whatever they want and there's nothing we can do about it, ever (because that would require about 20 people to simultaneously stop playing Halo II for a while)."
Has anyone around here ever noticed that other places in the world have publicly-provided or publicaly-subsidized and regulated (take Sweden for instance) broadband? If government itself were so inevitable, why are we always the ones with a government that gives everything away to the owners?
We do it because we're a land of radically modest needs. We're satisfied with a strict diet of big trucks, ranching subsidies, local sports teams, prescription drugs, white fraternities, and the touching promise that if we just hang in there, pumping away, we will be in the bosom of the Collective Invisible Friend when we're dead...while our neighbors whom we've competed with our whole lives will be tortured unmercifully in death. That's what makes us happy, and that's why we barely count as human. And why trusts rule in the US. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: Yes and no. wow! thoughtful post, I actually put down the controller long enough to read it!
the problem is that you cite the "owners" as being someone other than us. as I recall, "we the people" doesn't include Verizon or BellSouth.
Muni broadband makes sense. You whiners who complain about tax dollars just don't understand the issue, at all. Bond issues and service fees for the service itself mean Joe Sixpack doesn't have to worry if he doesn't want to use it.
The fact that companies are standing in the way of the local governments from helping out their citizens and employers should be enough to piss anyone off. I can only imagine the whohash flung here if the fire departments couldn't serve your homes because some law passed by the Magic Elf Fire Company in Podunkum, Miss. prevented local fire departments from being created. NOBODY would stand for that. Oh I hear ya-broadband isn't as important as fire departments...but why shouldn't local gov'ts help if they can? Just because SBC said so? | |
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PliotronX
My Katamari's Bigger Than Your Katamari
join:2000-05-13
Sunland, CA
| Re: Yes and no. Yup, well put, much better analogy than I would've come up with 
I just find it sickening that the telcos and cable co's would rather spend money lobbying against people being able to help themselves rather than spending it helping the people in the first place. They must be deathly afraid of what kind of a future that ethernet switched fiber holds. | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: Yes and no. said by PliotronX :I just find it sickening that the telcos and cable co's would rather spend money lobbying against people being able to help themselves rather than spending it helping the people in the first place. They must be deathly afraid of what kind of a future that ethernet switched fiber holds. Right on! | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | What were getting. Throttleband, NOT BROADband. | |
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| mythology
join:2002-10-16
Seneca, SC
| Re: This is why! "This is why 'My Broadband Sucks' - All on the first page of threads in the Cox HSI forum:
»[LA] Connection problems
»[LA] Anyone else having problems in the BatonRouge area
»[LA] Infuriatingly crippling loss
»[LA] not happy
»[LA] New Cox Customer!
»[LA] Slow download speeds. Walker, LA
»[LA] Cox slowdown Kenner LA"
MAYBE it has something to do with the 3 foot of rain LA has got? | |
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digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana
| Re: This is why! said by mythology :"This is why 'My Broadband Sucks' - All on the first page of threads in the Cox HSI forum: »[LA] Connection problems »[LA] Anyone else having problems in the BatonRouge area »[LA] Infuriatingly crippling loss »[LA] not happy »[LA] New Cox Customer! »[LA] Slow download speeds. Walker, LA »[LA] Cox slowdown Kenner LA" MAYBE it has something to do with the 3 foot of rain LA has got? Actually the service works better when it rains. Maybe the rain helps the signal transmit better on their shoestring network. 
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FWD#297248 | |
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| mythology
join:2002-10-16
Seneca, SC | lol maybe so | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Anti-muni legislation I like it. Means that if I decide to quit my job, lease some space on nearby water towers, and set up a wireless ISP, the local towns won't put me out of business with their own subsidized service.
Instead, I'll go out of business all on my own... | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: Anti-muni legislation OOPS! So sorry, but Verizon would preemptively put you out of business there too, since you could be classified as a "communtity-provided" ISP that would have to get telco permission under the new law.
And we're afraid of living in a totalitarian state...?  | |
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Edward27
join:2002-04-28
Canton, GA | It is embarrassing that.... The US is 13th in broadband internet service. While parts of the world have 30+ Mbps download speeds, parts of the US do not have anything but dial-up, and most of the US has less than 4 Mbps. | |
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| Iban3zPl4y3r
join:2003-02-24
Salem, VA | Re: It is embarrassing that.... eh, i saw a free upgrade today of 5Mbps and 400kb upload- i'm satisfied. | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: It is embarrassing that.... said by Iban3zPl4y3r :eh, i saw a free upgrade today of 5Mbps and 400kb upload- i'm satisfied. tell that to the guy 5 miles from his CO. I don't think he'll be as pleased. | |
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join:2003-02-24
Salem, VA | Re: It is embarrassing that.... that sucks.....but i've got cable- not DSL....besides- i'm just stating that it doesn't suck everywhere | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: It is embarrassing that.... said by Iban3zPl4y3r :that sucks.....but i've got cable- not DSL....besides- i'm just stating that it doesn't suck everywhere true. But that's part of the point I'm trying to make: VZ and others seem to be chomping at the bit to get FTTC in suburbia, but some parts of the city and country can't even get decent dialup, much less reasonable broadband of any sort. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Qwest.net
1 edit | Did someboby say Suck?
"I did not have sex with that woman" |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| misstated City and state politicians should have the backbone to stand up to self-serving lobbyists
You don't stand up to lobbyists. You either let them buy you stuff or you ignore them. It's not like they're beating people up at the capitol building, they're buying people dinner and sponsoring free trips. | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: misstated said by footballdude :City and state politicians should have the backbone to stand up to self-serving lobbyistsYou don't stand up to lobbyists. You either let them buy you stuff or you ignore them. It's not like they're beating people up at the capitol building, they're buying people dinner and sponsoring free trips. then "standing up" to them should be simple.
"Look, I told you, NO I don't want Eagles season tickets or that case of Cristal, you're just not gonna get that bill passed! Sorry!"  | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: misstated said by tapeloop :"Look, I told you, NO I don't want Eagles season tickets Hopefully they're giving out better stuff than that! Who'd want to watch the Eagles!!? | |
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artuero
join:2001-10-30
Chicago, IL
| Why not a co-op? Municipal broadband, like other services, forces people who don't want to pay for something to either pay or go to jail. Even where there are no direct subsidies (which is rarely if ever the case) there are typically costs borne by the taxpayer in the form of un- or under-compensated use of resources (rights of way, property for towers and equipment, employee time, etc.) and indirect taxes or tax expenditures (tax-free interest on muni bonds, strain on municipal credit ratings, risk of default, etc.).
If the service is truly profitable, there is no reason why people can't create a co-op or just a private business to make it happen. That protects other citizens who do not want the service from being forced to pay for it, while still allowing people to organize and get a service that they want. | |
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dibbb
join:2003-09-19
 ·Time Warner VOIP
|  The way I see it
Do I get free any of the above? I wish.
If I want more electric, I pay for it.
If I want more TV channels, I pay for it.
If I make long distance calls, I pay for it.
If I want broadband, I pay for it.
You get the point.
Are any of the above utilities subsidized by the government? IDK, are they? If they are, then so should broadband, if not, well too bad. | |
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| Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: The way I see it said by dibbb :The way I see it is broadband Internet is basically a utility service now. Like your electricty, phone, tv, water, gas, etc... Do I get free any of the above? I wish. If I want more electric, I pay for it. If I want more TV channels, I pay for it. If I make long distance calls, I pay for it. If I want broadband, I pay for it. You get the point. Are any of the above utilities subsidized by the government? IDK, are they? If they are, then so should broadband, if not, well too bad. Unless you have a well, then your water comes from the govt. Also there's a good chance that ALL the above services were subsidized through tax-breaks and interest free or low interest loans to companies to create the local infrastructure that they charge us all so much to use now. People aren't asking for FREE broadband, they're asking for competition in broadband so that price/service will be on par with the other industrialized nations of the world.
I'm definitely a laissez-faire believer.. as long as municipal networks are built correctly (protecting tax payers from overrides, and companies from unfair pricing) then they can only do good. | |
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Re: misstated