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T-Minus five years and counting
(old news - 04:55PM Monday Feb 14 2005)
tags: telco · TVIP
Microsoft sits at the heart of a five year transformation that should turn your local bell into a TV provider (provided they aren't Qwest). It's one of the most significant shifts in telecom history, with each bell attempting the transformation in a slightly different fashion.

Video via IP was the star of last year's CES, and should be an even larger player in Congress this year. One of the first major bills proposed this session was the "Advanced Internet Communications Services Act", which aims to put the bells on equal footing with the fairly unregulated cable providers.

"DVDs will remain the predominant mechanism for [film] delivery for the next five years," claims one Netflix executive, when asked by the San Francisco Business Times to chime in on SBC's TV plans.

An analyst recently predicted that within five years, SBC could gain 14% of the pay TV market in areas it deploys fiber (of course another predicts they'll quit the TV business by 2007). On a recent conference call, SBC told us that within five years, they hope to be the number 2 video provider in those areas.

The skinny on all the bell plans:

Verizon: Fios fiber to the home in select neighborhoods. Between 5 and 30MBps will be data bandwidth, the rest going toward video services. Microsoft has been signed as the software provider for their set-top boxes, and the IPTV service should start springing up in Fios wired markets mid-year.

SBC: Fiber to the node (or curb), with VDSL to the home in select neighborhoods. SBC claims users will see 20-25Mbps worth of connectivity (data and video) to half of their subscribers (18 million users) within three years. Microsoft will handle the set-top software as part of a $400 million deal. SBC says they'll begin field trials of the TV service they've dubbed "U-Verse" in the middle of this year, with some IP-TV deployment towards the end.

BellSouth:Fiber to the curb, with ADSL2+ to the home. They hope to offer 12Mbps of bandwidth over a single copper line, or 24MBps over a line-bonded pair. At first Bellsouth says they'll offer 4-6MBps of data bandwidth which they hope to nudge up as needed. Microsoft will also handle the software for their set-top device.

Qwest: While they have deployed trial VDSL to about 45,000 customers in Colorado and Phoenix, they've remained relatively quiet on the IPTV front, with basic survivability - not Survivor - on their front burner.

While Verizon's Fios will leave plenty of bandwidth for HDTV, both SBC and BellSouth's offerings will rely heavily on compression. As such, you'll notice a recurring theme among all three is Microsoft, who it's estimated has spent $20 billion to position itself as an IPTV player (Bell Canada is also on board). BSOD TV or Tivo 2?

As a wise stop-gap measure, SBC has struck a deal with 2wire to provide users with a satellite/DVR/IPTV hybrid device dubbed MediaPortal, which incorporates Yahoo content. The box should be able to carry SBC video customers from satellite to IPTV as the company works on network upgrades.

BellSouth has been heavily criticized, analysts claiming they're underestimating bandwidth needs. In an apparent response, BellSouth last week issued a statement saying:
"We believe it is possible to provide speeds fast enough to make triple play services over IP a reality using a mosaic approach of fiber and next generation DSL"
Via line bonding, BellSouth knows they can provide up to 24MBps of connectivity to users within a decent distance from the CO. With various compression flavors expected to slash bandwidth requirements by up to 75%, and VDSL expected to be a fairly inexpensive upgrade path, both SBC & BellSouth believe decent IPTV can be done without running fiber to the home.

Realistic?

Check back in five years.

Related:
  1. Tuesday Morning Links
  2. Qwest Finally Killing Off Old 'Choice TV'
  3. U-Verse Whole Home DVR Hits 7 New Areas
  4. Friday Evening Links
  5. AT&T Completes Whole Home DVR Upgrade
  6. Should Cable Operators Offer Wireless?
  7. U-Verse Hits Raleigh, Orlando
  8. SES AMERICOM Pulls Plug On IP Prime
Forums » Bell TV
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Post a:
samrocks
Premium
join:2003-07-30

edit:
February 14th, @04:40PM

Comcast finally lower prices? Not!!

Comcast will finally lower cable tv prices. Not!!! They will probably under estimate the bells.

ohboyhrwego

@optonline.net

Re: Comcast finally lower prices? Not!!

You mean a cable company might have to care about the quality of service? We might acutally get what they were talking about in 1995-1996?

I hope it doesn't take another 10 years before the cablecos upgrade to compete with fiber.... they might get an upset stomach from all the churn and burn, hehehehehe...
cevans59
Premium
join:2003-08-14
Smithton, IL

What about??

What about those of us who can't even get regular DSL? I guess they will just bypass us again.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: What about??

said by cevans59 See Profile:

What about those of us who can't even get regular DSL? I guess they will just bypass us again.
What I find particularly hilarious is they think that it will do the job. By todays standards 24 mbit will do the job. for regular content and tv.

Fast forward 5 years when hdtv programs are more common and hdtv tv's are more widely spread and they have a serious problem. TV on demand is not going to take off like they assume. and streaming a channel in mid riff will cause some serious bandwidth issues when there is a popular show on.

They need to get their heads out of the sand and realize fiber is the future and if they want a piece of the tv pie they need to roll it out. Sure their vdsl may be good for data. But what happens when you start having multiple tv's run another pair to the home for another 24 mbit? The cost of the dslams alone and having to built remote terminals every 2500 feet because vdsl signal is easily degraded pushes their dreams on a fire. Not to mention compression tv looks like crap. Errr sorry I meant super compressed tv. What is next real player set top boxes ?

They expect to be the #2 tv provider in their area ? Ahh hate to say this but that is if they completely rely on that satellite feed. and then it won't be them who is the #2 it will be the provider they choose to carry the satellite signal.

And to keep on the rant This is why the people running these companies are allowed to screw people for millions they don't understand what people want, they don't understand technology, they don't care about any future but their own, and they only want to give their investors a penny on their shares today. Not $10 in 2 years.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
flushls

join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA

Re: What about??

It's time for that damn clown to follow up on your rant!

No the CryBaby bells don't really see the future, they are looking though the rose coloured glasses of their regulated past. This means they like many persons in former communist countries they really don't understand the free market.
The Cable Co's have all ready kicked the Sh*t out of them in the Urban markets leaving them only crumbs. The indies and the WISP's are really starting to braze their bologna out in the sticks. But they think that since they are the Bells they can do what they want ..... and we have to take it, however they are not in Kansas anymore.

Some one once said "entrepreneurship is more about destruction than creation." And I bet the next 2 years are going to show this in the BB telecomm bus. And then there will much wailing and nashing of teeth by both the employees of the Bells and the Stockholders.

Flushls

lolwhat
INSERT LOCAL LEGAL HERE
Premium
join:2001-06-11
everywhere
·AT&T Midwest

EXACTLY.

said by BosstonesOwn See Profile:
But what happens when you start having multiple tv's run another pair to the home for another 24 mbit?
Ding, ding, ding!

Look at it this way: A telco has a whole bunch of copper plant that may not be completely amortized. FTTPremises would throw all of that away, and start from scratch - hello, capital expenditures and rate increases. Copper-only solutions (all the way from the CO to the premises) would suck for obvious reasons. So, why not strike a balance between those two extremes, while utilizing the current copper plant to the fullest?

Not that I'm saying that's the right thing to do. That's just the mindset that these companies have.

antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25

said by cevans59 See Profile:

What about those of us who can't even get regular DSL? I guess they will just bypass us again.
No kidding. I am 20K feet away from the CO! Grr!

phxmark
What Country Are We Living In?

join:2000-12-27
Glendale, AZ
You must live in Phoenix.
flushls

join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA

Great if you live in the burbs

Oh and great if you don't have to wait on QWORST.
Rob850

join:2003-04-11
Mary Esther, FL

Re: Great if you live in the burbs

Bring it on. One small company hickorytech is already doing this. Cable TV over phone line.

Rob

»www.robfwb.com
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI

Defintely overly optimistic

said by Bellsouth:

"We believe it is possible to provide speeds fast enough to make triple play services over IP a reality using a mosaic approach of fiber and next generation DSL"
Voice, video and data over 24 Mbps simultaneously... I'll believe it when I see it... And I'll probably be disappointed.
--
64 bit CPUs and OSes? That's so 1996.
Viva La Fee' Verte!

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME


edit:
February 14th, @06:03PM

Re: Defintely overly optimistic

The "mosaic approach" is going to be BS's downfall. The existng "mosaic" of DSL availability and quality is why the already lose so much business to cable providers. Too much guesswork is required to order service. SBC's FTTN project has at least the promise that they would enable service on a neighborhod-by-neighborhood basis.
quote:
Voice, video and data over 24 Mbps simultaneously... I'll believe it when I see it... And I'll probably be disappointed.
I'm amused that the "solution" to the HDTV bandwidth problem is to compress the hell out of it. Hello? HDTV is about picture quality. These companies are gearing up to do all of this deployment for a service that's going to be inferior to the existing cable company. What are they thinking? DirecTV, I understand, handling local HDTV channels for the nation is a massive undertaking. But the Bells shouldn't bother deploying a second rate service. Verizon has the right idea. Deploy fiber and get it over with already.
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network

ColdFiltered

join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA

I would be curious to know what the two of you are thinking you know. SDTV channel using VC1 or MPEG4 is 2Mbps. Using the same video codecs, HDTV would be 8-Mbps. A 64-128 Kbps using the same QoS as the Video is all that it takes for reliable VoIP.

And no, the existing DSLAMs and routers are not the target elements in the IPTV equation. Much lager DSLAM-to-Headend backhauls are planned. Next generation Alcatel DSLAMs terminate IP.

And the biggest consumer on the pipe will be video, which is only in one direction.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI


edit:
February 16th, @07:14PM

Re: Defintely overly optimistic

said by ColdFiltered See Profile:

I would be curious to know what the two of you are thinking you know.
And your qualifications are what ?

Higher quality video, in order to compete with cable first requires at least on the order of 10Mbps per stream...

As well, you have to consider multiple video streams for multiple devices (ie televisions, TIVOs, etc.)...

--
64 bit CPUs and OSes? That's so 1996.

Viva La Fee' Verte!

djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Westmont, IL
clubs:

Sbc

Sbc/ameritech sold off americast, and now they realize the mistake they made. Now they want back in the video business. Or it seems that way...
--
A message to you rudy. Fav song of all time.
Soundfx4

join:2005-02-08
Roanoke, VA

USA Internet is screwed

The Internet in the US is screwed...(sigh) right now only greedy companies own the equipment, and the wires that provide everyone in the us internet access. That is why the internet is slower here than in Japan, and that is why 5 years is the wait time for IP TV. There are only two things that will save the internet here in the US. The first thing is if a company buys everyone out and finally starts supplying the speed that everyone deserves, but nobody has enough money to do that. The other thing is if we start a revolution, and put pressure on the major internet suppliers of the US, like verizon. But neither of those are going to happen, so I hope you all like waiting, because when it comes to technology, the US is always going to be many many years behind what we are capable of.

TIS_sCREWed

Re: USA Internet is screwed

Well... perhaps they understood it twas' Valentine's day n' the internet needed a good screwing too
Soundfx4

join:2005-02-08
Roanoke, VA

Re: USA Internet is screwed

lol,

ColdFiltered

join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA

said by Soundfx4 See Profile:

The Internet in the US is screwed...(sigh) right now only greedy companies own the equipment, and the wires that provide everyone in the us internet access. That is why the internet is slower here than in Japan, and that is why 5 years is the wait time for IP TV. There are only two things that will save the internet here in the US. The first thing is if a company buys everyone out and finally starts supplying the speed that everyone deserves, but nobody has enough money to do that. The other thing is if we start a revolution, and put pressure on the major internet suppliers of the US, like verizon. But neither of those are going to happen, so I hope you all like waiting, because when it comes to technology, the US is always going to be many many years behind what we are capable of.
I think you need to do some research on how IPTV is delivered from a headend to the end user. Its not using the Internet for which you speak of. The insertion point for the content is well inside the local WAN.

Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Ypsilanti, MI
·Comcast

It has never hurt it before..

"DVDs will remain the predominant mechanism for [film] delivery for the next five years," claims one Netflix executive, when asked by the San Francisco Business Times to chime in on SBC's TV plans.

All the cable companies out there didn't hurt it, so how is some other T.V. service gonna damage it?

Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Charter Pipeline
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·AT&T CallVantage

Still a factor!

BellSouth knows they can provide up to 24MBps of connectivity to users within a decent distance from the CO.

Yeah, but what happens speed wise when your outside whatever distance? Hello SnowTv!
AboutBell
AboutBell
Premium
join:2004-12-13

Read between the lines

Let me try explain a few things. First of all, take anything the marketing departments of the Bells are saying with a grain of salt. It's mostly marketecture and not really based on actual network architecture and engineering fundamentals.

They are blasting out these press releases to try slow the loss of customers to the cable providers that are offering VoIP as part of a triple bundle threat today. The cable companies have the network architecture TODAY to offer just about EVERYTHING and anything they want including multiple HDTV channels simultaneously with VoIP and internet. The best the Bells can hope to say is that they eventually will be able to offer the same things but their networks are no where near close to that today by and large.

The only thing that excites me about the Bells future plans is Fibre to the home. That will give them more capability than coax. Anything else is just a stop gap and bandaid solution. As long as there is twisted copper pair to the home, you will be limited to much less than what the cable companies can do. Even if the fibre termination is at your driveway, your still not gonna get the same capability as a coax cable can pump into your home. Compression can and IS only doing so much. End of story!

This article I read today seems to be one of the more unbiased ones which I think describes the business realities of both sides, now and in future, very accurately.
»www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/···hnology/
wadewood
Premium
join:2003-05-04
Houston, TX
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: Read between the lines

I agree. Video, HDTV, is not going to work over IP unless you have a huge pipe. Copper twisted pair can't handle that, only fiber.

Qwest would have already been gobbled up, but is so far in debt nobody wants them. If you are in Qwest footprint, fiber to the home is not going to happen anytime soon for you.

ColdFiltered

join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA

Re: Read between the lines

said by wadewood See Profile:

I agree. Video, HDTV, is not going to work over IP unless you have a huge pipe. Copper twisted pair can't handle that, only fiber.

Qwest would have already been gobbled up, but is so far in debt nobody wants them. If you are in Qwest footprint, fiber to the home is not going to happen anytime soon for you.
Please explain, with example(s)! Look at the hardware suppliers for this. DSLAMs well within 10K' that are backhauled with +Gigabit connectivity instead of OC3. Paired (bonded) loops for 24-Mbps VC1/MPEG4 streams. Edge routing from DSLAM to headend. Exactly how much network do you think this is travelling?

mikepd
Discovery
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-26
New Port Richey, FL
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon Online DSL

Interesting times ahead

While fiber requires amps after a certain distance to maintain the signal, there will be no limitation as there is with DSL.

Verizon plans to allow every house they wire a full 622Mbs of bandwidth and they can increase that down the road once equipment is more mature.

VDSL is a stop-gap measure as it has too many problems and as long as the telcos can find good provider content and not just 500 channels of the shopping network then I think that they will provide the cable companies with serious competition and competition is always good for the consumer.

FIOS should be here before the start of fall and I can't wait to get my hands on at least the 15/2 service. MPEG 4 along with a lot of other pieces of the puzzle are coming together this fall and it promises to be an interesting time.
--
Always Reach Beyond Your Grasp
Soundfx4

join:2005-02-08
Roanoke, VA


edit:
February 14th, @07:26PM

Re: Interesting times ahead

said by mikepd See Profile:


Verizon plans to allow every house they wire a full 622Mbs of bandwidth and they can increase that down the road once equipment is more mature.
Were did you hear that? I haven't heard anything about verizons future plans for FiOS. I was thinking (and praying) that after their network is fully deployed they would offer 100 Mbps up/down speeds for internet, like in japan and other countries.

mikepd
Discovery
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-26
New Port Richey, FL
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Interesting times ahead

There were active discussions in the VOL forum. If you notice, there is now a Verizon forum dedicated to just their FTTP offering (FIOS).

You should follow the threads there as one of the frequent posters is a sub-contractor who is doing some of the engineering work. Another poster is involved the actual fiber installation deployment.
--
Always Reach Beyond Your Grasp

DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
clubs:

Stupid Bellsouth

All they are doing is prolonging their death. I dont know what is keeping them from just running fiber to the home. They just like to milk technologys for every penny they can, and in the long run, they will always be the last to do anything. If they just went ahead and ran the fiber, then they at least have ADVANTAGE. They would be able to run whatever they wanted on the fiber. And would be able to compete with everything. Then the money wouldent be a problem. The fiber would pay for itself 100times faster than copper ever did.
--
inc.ath.cx
Have a Networking problem or question? Stop by the Networking Forum and let us help you.
AboutBell
AboutBell
Premium
join:2004-12-13

Re: Stupid Bellsouth

said by DaMaGeINC See Profile:

All they are doing is prolonging their death. I dont know what is keeping them from just running fiber to the home. They just like to milk technologys for every penny they can, and in the long run, they will always be the last to do anything. If they just went ahead and ran the fiber, then they at least have ADVANTAGE. They would be able to run whatever they wanted on the fiber. And would be able to compete with everything. Then the money wouldent be a problem. The fiber would pay for itself 100times faster than copper ever did.
DaMaGeINC,
That is exactly what it is all about. Most Bells are rewiring their infrastructure as fast as they can. It's a massive undertaking though and fibre to the home is still VERY expensive. That is why they are only concentrating on doing it in high density areas where they can get the most bang for their infrastructure upgrade buck. For all their talk about fibre to the home, the majority of customers are years away from seeing it if at all. If your out in the boonies or low density areas then I wouldn't even give my grandkids a hope of seeing it.
Soundfx4

join:2005-02-08
Roanoke, VA

said by DaMaGeINC See Profile:

All they are doing is prolonging their death. I dont know what is keeping them from just running fiber to the home. They just like to milk technologys for every penny they can, and in the long run, they will always be the last to do anything. If they just went ahead and ran the fiber, then they at least have ADVANTAGE. They would be able to run whatever they wanted on the fiber. And would be able to compete with everything. Then the money wouldent be a problem. The fiber would pay for itself 100times faster than copper ever did.
I wish more people understood the truth like this guy here does. Sure it is expensive to run fiber, but that isn't the point. The point here is that they should have started running fiber years ago! The telco companies in the US are indeed greedy SOBS. And people that try to say otherwise know that this is the truth, but they try to believe that there are very good reasons that fiber isn't at their house yet. They say things to make them feel better about the situation, like, "well the US is so big", or, "It is very expensive to run fiber, I completely understand it taking this long". It is all about market pressure and if we REALLY pulled out all the stops and told the Telcos, we are sick of your BS, than they would be pushed to lay fiber faster. Every time I think about how 100 Mbps up/down is COMPLETELY possible and affordable it just makes my blood boil to know that people here are only getting 1-5 Mbps down, and 256Kbps - 1 Mbps up! (sigh) But nobody seams to even care...

ColdFiltered

join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA

Re: Stupid Bellsouth

said by Soundfx4 See Profile:

said by DaMaGeINC See Profile:


All they are doing is prolonging their death. I dont know what is keeping them from just running fiber to the home. They just like to milk technologys for every penny they can, and in the long run, they will always be the last to do anything. If they just went ahead and ran the fiber, then they at least have ADVANTAGE. They would be able to run whatever they wanted on the fiber. And would be able to compete with everything. Then the money wouldent be a problem. The fiber would pay for itself 100times faster than copper ever did.
I wish more people understood the truth like this guy here does. Sure it is expensive to run fiber, but that isn't the point. The point here is that they should have started running fiber years ago! The telco companies in the US are indeed greedy SOBS. And people that try to say otherwise know that this is the truth, but they try to believe that there are very good reasons that fiber isn't at their house yet. They say things to make them feel better about the situation, like, "well the US is so big", or, "It is very expensive to run fiber, I completely understand it taking this long". It is all about market pressure and if we REALLY pulled out all the stops and told the Telcos, we are sick of your BS, than they would be pushed to lay fiber faster. Every time I think about how 100 Mbps up/down is COMPLETELY possible and affordable it just makes my blood boil to know that people here are only getting 1-5 Mbps down, and 256Kbps - 1 Mbps up! (sigh) But nobody seams to even care...
Bellsouth did run a trial of FTTC solutions for which there are several thousand subscribers using it to this day. The reason, at the time, to not continue further deployment was costs.

I think a lot of you feel that the RBOCs have to answer to no one other than the end user, but that is pretty naive. And local-loop solutions, regardless of what form they take, is only part of the first-layer problem as there is a tremendous amount of network beyond the last mile.

As always, you can sit here and disagree, even call them stupid, but without a firm understanding of the technology, the financial infrastructure, and the politics behind a publicly traded company then you have little credability to lean on.

If the OP is so much brighter (ahem, less stupid) then he can certainly raise some capital and bring us the show, and do it in a shorter period of time. I'll even provide him with the sunglasses to help with that brightness.

oldduke

join:2001-06-15
Gulf Breeze, FL
·AT&T Southeast

Quality only the dog can hear

HDTV is the future, but it's also bogus. It's like stereo in the 20K range; great, but only the dog can hear it. HDTV through a fog of alcohol, cigarette smoke, poor eyesight, AND a barking dog isn't any better than the proposed IPTV. I don't have cable (in effect, I don't have TV) BECAUSE it's Mediacom. Their bundle and their service sucks. My landlord resists wiring the house for dish TV, and it wouldn't be particularly attractive in the middle of my front yard (which right now is under a foot of water). But, TV coming in on an existing wire with quality about what it is over today's cable and MAYBE "a la carte" or at least a wider selection! Count me in. I think the Bells, maybe by press of events, are about to provide a service many of us will want. When Bells are there with TV during a hurricane while the cable is out for weeks, we won't be having this conversation.
grantje
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Kokomo, IN

Open Video System

Will any of the Bells' IPTV systems be an "Open Video System" where third party providers could offer their own channels and charge their own fees?

Also, is it true that an OVS doesn't require a traditional franchise agreement with a local municipality as long as its operator already has the right of way?

golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff
clubs:

Just realized ...

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you're watching tv that is delivered over an "internet" connection can't a provider easily track what you are watching? (Nielsen lookout) And just think the evil empire is providing all the software.
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