Spamhaus: MCI is Spam Harborer Makes estimated $5 million from hosting Spamhaus slammed MCI late last week for their lack of effort to shut down a number of spammers (and Trojan/proxy spam software distributors) who have taken up residence on the company's network. According to Spamhaus, MCI is making $5 million a year from hosting 189 known "spam gangs" around the world. "MCI executives have refused to stop providing service to these gangs, insisting that the sale and distribution of stealth spamming software is "not against MCI's policy," claims the report.
|
 BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | What's Wrong With That?Okay, I haven't READ the article (  ), but what's wrong with "sale and distribution of stealth spamming software"?
Is there such a thing as illegal software, DMCA notwithstanding? I've not heard that e-mail software of any kind is illegal, or even immoral. What makes the spammers' software so objectionable as to violate the average ISP's terms of service?
Of course, if MCI is allowing the ACT of spamming via its services, that's a whole 'nother story...
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
|  | | | Re: What's Wrong With That? said by B:Okay, I haven't READ the article ( -- B Maybe you should. You might answer your own question. | |
| | | BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Re: What's Wrong With That?
Okay, I did. The article uses the word "illegal" several times, with no supporting documentation.
Should MCI be shamed out of this activity? Sure.
Is there any legal reason they should stop? Not that I'm aware of.
For the scummy spamming gangs, what particular advantage does having a storefront hosted by MCI have over a storefront hosted by someISPinTheThirdworld.net ? Again, even after reading the article, it only appears they're DISTRIBUTING SOFTWARE, not spamming.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | | | Re: What's Wrong With That? I'll agree that a bulk e-mailing program in and of itself isn't (and shouldn't be) illegal. There are plenty of legitimate uses for one of those (including running a valid, opt-in mailing list).
However, the software the article mentions is designed to hook up to trojaned PCs and use them to send out bulk e-mails. That first part (connecting to a trojaned PC) is the part that makes the software illegal IMO.
MCI is claiming that the software is "protected speech" and they would be censoring it by taking it down. This argument doesn't fly with me (or Spamhaus) because the software is designed to break into a user's computer. (The fact that a trojan is what is letting them in is irrelevant. You are still breaking and entering if an accomplice of yours gets into the house and opens the door from the inside.)
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
| | | | | BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Re: What's Wrong With That?
Well, but exactly. Crowbars aren't illegal! Neither are lockpicks as far as I know.
Should MCI stop dealing with scum? Absolutely. Is there a legal reason they should? I don't see it.
However, community pressure (like Spamhaus's) is entirely called for.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | | | | | Re: What's Wrong With That? Yes, but crowbars and lockpicks have legitimate uses outside of breaking into a house. Programs designed to connect to infected PCs do not. That's not to say they're illegal, but it sure makes it hard to justify hosting them. | |
| | | | | | Dissman
join:2001-04-26
Alexandria, VA | In most states, lockpicks ARE illegal to posess for anyone but a locksmith. They are referred to as "Theives tools." Crowbars, on the other hand, have a myriad of other uses then for B&E. | |
| | | | | | | BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Re: What's Wrong With That? Thanks. You're right. Apparently it varies by country, by state, and even locality. I found some more at »www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=3553
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
|
| | | | |  keith2468Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | In most jurisdictions, the sale of lock smith tools to anyone other than a licensed locksmith is in fact illegal.
Similarly, the sale of machine guns, rocket launchers, aircraft equipped to carry bombs and missiles, and nuclear and biological weapons, are all restricted.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
| | | | | | | |  I hear your arguement, and I have to say that I am generally hesitant to support paternalist mindsets and legislation. Still, I think that you are overlooking, in your arguement that the SPIRIT of the law has not been violated, that 'conspiracy', 'attempted' and 'accomplice to' ARE legal terms that apply here.
It _IS_ illegal to solicit homicide. It is not legal to have a site, for instance, that creates a resource pool for accomplishing homicide. While spamming and trafficking in malware is not quite homicide, it is significantly malicious in spirit.
That's my 2 cents worth--I think that you are looking for a spelled out statement of what may be too obvious to state. | |
|
|  PhoenixDown-- Wants FIOSPremium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1 | Is it MCI directly or is some reseller utilizing MCI's backbone somewhere?
--
www.pulsetoday.com -- marketing forums! | |
| |  nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | said by B:Of course, if MCI is allowing the ACT of spamming via its services, that's a whole 'nother story... I used to work for an MCI-owned web hosting company (up until about June of last year). We had more than one customer that I would classify as a spammer. They were as much a problem for our networks as they were for their target audience. The suck part was, in order to repair our own networks, it ended up benefiting these asshats.
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
| | drewberPremium
join:2003-06-04
New Bedford, IL | MCI = WorldCom...... yes thier scumbags.. Not only did world comm fake the price of thier stock etc, do you know how many lives were ruined from it. Peoples retirement and profit sharing worth nothing now.
I personally refuse to do any kind of work with worldcom/mci.
So if a company has no regret over ruining someones retirement, thier profit sharing, laying off thousands of people just to make a buck, i wouldnt put hosting spammers past them. Just the type of thing that i expect from worldcom/MCI | |
| | | PhoenixDown-- Wants FIOSPremium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1 | Re: What's Wrong With That? You seem to forget that many of the employees of Worldcom got burned also
--
www.pulsetoday.com -- marketing forums! | |
|
| | | First poster; An idea...read the story and then you will not have to foot your mouth.
Mass mailing software is against any lucrative web hosting companies TOS/AUP. Working for the largest web hosting company in New Mexico(35,000 clients), we were told to contact a client who sold desktop mass mailing software on their site, as they were violating our AUP and also lead us into the RBL's, which are never fun to deal with.
They were surprised, but in the end they knew left w/o incident.
MCI needs to stop this practice, or be fined or sued if they do not comply. With the Fed's getting into this "thing called spam", you would only guess they have their hands far enough down MCI's pockets to either;
a. stop the practice
b. defend the practice
When money talks, the Government is all ears. I wouldn't expect anything more to come out of this, unless Spamhaus somehow has the financial strength to fight MCI and the US Government which supports them at all times. | |
| | | BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Re: What's Wrong With That? Where's my foot in my mouth, genius? When I finally read the article it didn't change my stance at all. Try reading the thread.
said by daniyel:Mass mailing software is against any lucrative web hosting companies TOS/AUP. Apparently not. Try reading the thread.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
|
 Link LoggerPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3 | Spambots legal I don't think so If MCI spammers use spambots to relay their spam (very likely) then there is no doubt it is illegal and I would think against MCI AUP, however I wonder how much AUP flexibility $5 Million a year gets you from low life scum management who care only about their bottom line and hence bonuses?
Blake
--
Vendor: Firewall Logging Software »www.SonicLogger.com - SonicWall and 3Com »www.LinkLogger.com - Linksys, Netgear and Zyxel | |
| | | NO SH*T !!! Ya think their might be a FINANCIAL INCENTIVE for SPAMMERS and SPYWARE writers and the SCUMBAGS who allow them to attack every PC online???
DUH !!! | |
| |  DaSneaky1Done wall to block them allPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
 ·Charter
1 edit | Re: NO SH*T !!! For once, I agree with you. Spammers throw HUGE service deposits to get service up and running. Then they leave the ISP to sort out the trash after they leave. As long as spammers have the money to do this, ISP's will keep supplying them network resources.
--
] :: my trivial ramblings :: [
h | |
| | | | | Re: NO SH*T !!! Classic example of money v. ethics | |
|
|  Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
2 edits | Not surprising in the least, considering who we're
talking about here. Worldconcom, the
company who garnered one of highest fraud fines in
history, even more than Enron or Tyco. And MCI, aka
Worldcom, aka UUNet, doesn't care about spammers being
hosted on their network, nor clueless worm infested
users whose machines have been turned into spam/DDoS
xombies, nor illegal spam/proxy software sites on their
network. As long as they get paid, that's all they care
about. Is it any wonder they are also known by anti-spam
advocates (particulary those on the newsgroup news.admin.
net-abuse.email) as spew-spew net?
And take a look at Spamhaus.org's listing for MCI:
189 of them, with many (I stopped counting after 30)
ROKSO listings. They include such notorious spammers
as Scott Richter, Eddy Marin, and Brian Haberstroh (the
spammer who's trying to file a SLAPP suit against
someone who complained about his spamming - he claims
that he's in compliance with CAN-SPAM, when that is
clearly a lie.)
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors. | |
| | | keith2468Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | Worldcom ! Shuten Doji excellent observation. I'd forgotten that. | |
|
| | What would you expect from WorldCon? Is it really that surprising that the corporate ethics of this company has remained unchanged since their uncovered scandal? You can change the company name, but don't even begin to presume you have changed the company, its philosophy, or its business ethics. | |
| | | MCI WorldFraud I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Not just senior management was the problem at this company!
That attitude was/is pervasive.
Die, MCI, Die !
--
If you're not livin' on the edge, you're takin' up too much space ! | |
| | | Simply amazing MCI's response in the Washington Post is practically laughable. I hope MCI ends up in the corporate trashcan where it belongs. | |
| hedyd4uPremium
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
| Is Hijacking computers legal? MCI host the website that sells hijacking software. How do they justify that? Aside from the name calling when is hijacking someones computer a legal activity? And since MCI has major income from the promotion of porn, the rumors of a Verizon buyout would be bad for these people since Verizon will not sell those services. Since everything MCI does is questionable, they have the most obnoxious telemarketer, the only good thing they have is infrastructure. Maybe a buyout of MCI would be good for all of us.
This proxy spam ware is mostly written by Russians, and in particular by two Russians well known to Spamhaus and western law enforcement agencies. By no coincidence, new versions of their proxy spam ware appear to be released just as new Sobig virus variants make their appearance, and the proxy spam ware coincidentally has features to command the new viruses to operate in new ways.
The two Russians are Ruslan Ibragimov, author of the 'Send-Safe' proxy spam ware, and Alexey Panov, author of the equally illegal Direct Mail Sender ("DMS") proxy spam ware, both packages designed specifically for hijacking of 3rd party computers and illegal anonymous spamming. Both also sell lists of freshly-infected proxies to the spammer community. Spamhaus believes Ibragimov and Panov have far too many connections to the Sobig virus for these to be coincidences.
Ibragimov's Send-Safe in particular, has a feature called "Use proxy's MX" which is causing a large increase in spam for many ISPs. This Send-Safe feature instructs its hijacked proxies to send the spam out via the upstream ISP's main mail server (instead of the proxy sending the spam out from the infected machine itself). This means that billions of spam emails now flood the Internet coming from the main mail servers of large ISPs.
So where is this stealth proxy spam ware sold and distributed from? For Send Safe the answer is, www.send-safe.com, hosted by MCI Worldcom.
| |
| | | i love mci i love it i can do whatever i want thank you mci | |
|  antiphishingPhishing Scam TerminatorPremium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
kudos:2
2 edits | MCI Greed-Com does harbor spammers I sent MCI about fifty complaints regarding the site usa.pvitcael.biz which is run by Steve Goudreault.
It looks to me like the site is still online even after I aggressively sent complaints . This is enough evidence to prove that in fact MCI harbors spammers
canonical name usa.pvitcael.biz.
aliases
addresses 63.111.25.9
Name Server: NS1.WCALOLAX.US
Name Server: NS2.WCALOLAX.US
18 23 23 23 157.130.216.46 pos6-0.ur2.atl7.web.wcom.net
19 23 23 23 198.5.128.142
20 24 24 23 63.111.6.233
21 44 44 44 63.111.25.9
Registrant Name: Steve Goudreault
Registrant Organization:American Loan Rate
Registrant Address1:8175 S. Virginia St
Registrant Address2:336
Registrant City:Reno
Registrant Postal Code:89511
Registrant Country:United States
Registrant Country Code:US
--
Don't shoot the messenger,shoot the spammer
»www.antihotmail.com
Dslreports.com Profile: »profile.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com
| |
| | | Govt.'s NOT ISP's need to step up The reality is that the governments should be stopping the sale of any illegal software, not an ISP. If I owned an ISP I probably wouldn't want them using my network for the distribution of this program, but someone is going to host them. Intelligent laws governing spam distribution needs to be in place, and governments are already putting those who write and distribute viruses in to prison. Chasing them from ISP to ISP is not a solution. | |
| | keith2468Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | FBI Tip URL There is a lot to be said for that position. It is a good postion.
While so many Americans are happy to bitch about foreign spammers they can do nothing about, they are reluctant to use the FBI web site to request an investigation on a company they can do something about.
»tips.fbi.gov/
Sending a tip does not mean a promise to testify. They'll take it from there.
(Sadly, I'm not in the USA so I can't directly do much myself on this.)
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
|
| | So is it end-to-end or not? Do you REALLY want your hosting provider to decide what you can and cannot sell via your connection? Sure, it's SPAM software today. Maybe it's pr0n tomorrow, though, and on down the line.
If this software is really illegal, that's one thing. But merely because software may be used for an illegal purpose doesn't make it illegal. | |
| |  burrowowlSonic.NetVIP
join:2003-01-22
Santa Rosa, CA | Re: So is it end-to-end or not? Note that Spamhaus is physically located in the UK, where they have far more restrictive laws regarding "protected speech" than in the US, especially in regards to spam, which can theoretically result in a £5,000 fine per incident.
I'm not familiar enough with the UK legal system to make an informed authoritative statement on the matter, but it may well be that such software is illegal where that article was written. The fact that the author refers to the "State of Virginia" instead of the "Commonwealth of Virginia" implies that he is no expert on Virginian law.
Take their claims of illegality with a grain of salt, but I don't see that as being the major ethical question here. MCI has apparently decided that they would rather be part of the problem than part of the solution. Hosting companies that encourage rampant network abuse is counter-productive at best. | |
| | | burrowowlSonic.NetVIP
join:2003-01-22
Santa Rosa, CA | looks pretty illegal to me Pardon me, it's right there in the Virginia law, Title 8:
§ 18.2-152.3:1 section a, part 1:
Knowingly sells, gives, or otherwise distributes or possesses with the intent to sell, give, or distribute software that (i) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of facilitating or enabling the falsification of electronic mail transmission information or other routing information; (ii) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to facilitate or enable the falsification of electronic mail transmission information or other routing information; or (iii) is marketed by that person acting alone or with another for use in facilitating or enabling the falsification of electronic mail transmission information or other routing information is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
The law goes on to state that this is a class 6 felony if the revenue generated from a UBE exceeds $1,000. In Virginia, a class 6 felony results in a term of imprisonment of not less than one year nor more than five years, or in the discretion of the jury or the court trying the case without a jury, confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.
In the event that it is just a class 1 misdemeanor, the penalty is confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both. | |
|
| keith2468Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | Do you believe in the right to distribute, for example, kiddie porn?
If yes, that is pretty darn wierd, or worse.
If no, then you accept that distributing some things is illegal.
How about heroin? How about nuclear weapons?
As Spamhaus says, there is talking about heroin, and there is distributing heroin.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
| | | | |  Re: So is it end-to-end or not?
 | |
|
| | The Law and the ISPs I still don't see any connection between the sellers of the software and the ISPs. If my neighbor was selling crack cocaine, I wouldn't waste my time calling the GLAD baggy company and complaining to them to stop selling the dude little wrappers. I'd call the cops.
Spamhaus wants to stop dude from selling his "illegal" software - don't call MCI. Call the Feds or the Virginia AG. If all that fails - call Spitzer in NY. He won't pass. He hates everybody.  | |
|
| |
|
|
