 
needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
Glendale, AZ
1 edit | I Use 3 Yep! I use Spybot, Ad Aware and the new one from Cox. It seems each finds a couple the others miss. The first one always catches the majority no matter which I run first. I haven't seen any issues where they don't play in the same sandbox together.
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Of all the people I know... you're one of them. | |
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anon1010001110101
@gpc.edu | old news this is pretty old news. other sites have already done the stats | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| Words to surf by! "Spyware Warrior points to a streamlined summary of the anti-spyware app comparisons recently completed by Eric Howes. Giant AntiSpyware - the best reviewed application - detected and removed only 63% of Spyware; the remainder were lucky to break 50%. The lesson? Something our security regulars have been saying for some time: use at least two anti-spyware applications.
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No Firefox here, move along! | |
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imtim83
You All Deserve The Economic Meltdown
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA | Re: Words to surf by! Yep! | |
| | wasanon
join:2005-01-18
Madison, WI
| Wait a minute. 63% is an F in any school in this land.
Thinking that it's OK just because it's the least spoiled apple in a barrel of bad apples just isn't right.
Say that it's "the best" totally misleads the sheeple into complacency.
63% is a record far worse than that of MS whom put us in this mess in the first place.
Time to wake up and place some quality demands on those that are slipping it to you. | |
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Logan 5
Wondering what happens next..
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Words to surf by! said by wasanon  :Time to wake up and place some quality demands on those that are slipping it to you. Ok, but what to do when the VERY companies you want to have more accountability say things like:
said by Microsoft:
""In Microsoft's world customers are confidant (sic) that we take responsibility," he says. "They know that they will get their upgrades and patches."
This is a direct quote from here: »nl2.vnunet.com/news/1160853 5th paragraph down.
It seems problematic to hold the companies themselves accountable when they themselves see nothing wrong with their business practices that may or may not be the cause of the problem(s) to begin with. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| said by wasanon :Wait a minute. 63% is an F in any school in this land. You can't say that here in California as you might hurt the self-esteem of the anti-spyware author.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
| | | | wasanon
join:2005-01-18
Madison, WI | Re: Words to surf by! OK. I hear ya both.
Sounds like a clear warning to just bend over and relax so this insertion doesn't hurt so much. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | wasanon
join:2005-01-18
Madison, WI
| Re: Words to surf by! Considering that the two primary entry paths are via human engineering and the infamous buffer overflow, we don't really stand much of a chance. At best only the buffer overflow can be resolved (and that's actually a problem internal to the processor, not the OS, that patching the OS can compensate for but would not have to if the processor were "fixed".).
So... the shaft seems to be coming from Intel, AMD, Cyrix, etc.... for the buffer overflow. The human engineering side is a bug left over from our creation and I'm afraid we're stuck with that one for a few more millenia.
As far as depending on one's self for support I doubt we'll ever get everyone trained. This is a problem that requires "idiot proofing" and nothing less will do. One fully trained in technical matters still has to deal with the human engineering problem so it's not over yet.
No... it's an entirely invalid statement that "ANYONE can avoid the entire process" .... All I have to do to prove it is point to your last 50 customers... or your grandmother... or the ubiquitous 8 year old next door web browsing.
Idiot proof it or just simply tell us to bend over. We like honesty even when it hurts, and we always know when we're getting the shaft.
I also don't want to be bothered with "Laws" designed to prevent intrusions by means of deterrent. Those are just a way of saying we're not going to bother to fix the problem. That we'd rather just inflict suffering as a form of retaliation and use this to fool ourselves into thinking we did something positive to fix things.
Just put the OS in ROM, make it inviolate. Quit wasting my hard drive space to hold massive compiled executables that never change until hijacked. It just wastes my R/W space and makes me vulnerable.
There... NOW I feel better.
Thank you.
... we now return you to your regularly scheduled program. | |
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PliotronX
My Katamari's Bigger Than Your Katamari
join:2000-05-13
Sunland, CA | Don't forget that it disenfranchises those authors who garner a lesser score! Big no-no in the people's republic of Kalifornia. | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO | Use at least two? Doesn't this seem just a tad bit ridiculous? I'm not normally one to start OS flame wars, but how Windows users can just accept that as if it's normal is beyond me.
Dogg | |
| | AEKDB
join:2004-03-07
Towson, MD | Re: Use at least two? Side question - is there any breakdown as to whether any combination of spyware programs remove all (or at least 90%) of spyware? There is a real problem if no combination of programs remove say 15% of spyware. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Use at least two? Read the article. The author finds that by combining Giant (now MS anti-spyware) with Webroot Spy Sweeper created the best results, and even that only nabbed 70%. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Use at least two? said by Karl Bode :Read the article. The author finds that by combining Giant (now MS anti-spyware) with Webroot Spy Sweeper created the best results, and even that only nabbed 70%. I ran AdAware last night after probably a month of not using it. Since I switched to Firefox I only raise flags on cookies. No installed apps, period.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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dddane
join:2002-01-10
Chicago, IL | Re: Use at least two? not to rain on your anti-IE parade... but I use Internet Explorer exclusively, and I too only ever have 'bad' cookies on my computer.
its the user not the browser stupid! | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Use at least two? said by dddane :not to rain on your anti-IE parade... but I use Internet Explorer exclusively, and I too only ever have 'bad' cookies on my computer. its the user not the browser stupid! What witch's brew of add-on software are you running? Do you only visit innocuous sites?
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
| said by yock : said by Karl Bode :Read the article. The author finds that by combining Giant (now MS anti-spyware) with Webroot Spy Sweeper created the best results, and even that only nabbed 70%. I ran AdAware last night after probably a month of not using it. Since I switched to Firefox I only raise flags on cookies. No installed apps, period. Same here since I just about ALWAYS use Opera, at least since version 5!!
Heck, even Slimbrowser and Kmeleon, which I've been playing with lately, have settings you can adjust that will prevent most spyware.
I do have and use Webroot Spysweeper, Adaware and Spybot along with Spywareblaster for IE, when I do use it, but for the life of me, I can't even remember the last time any of these programs found something other than cookies or MRU's.
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Spread Opera, fastest browser on earth or Cyberspace! | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by Smitedogg :Doesn't this seem just a tad bit ridiculous? I'm not normally one to start OS flame wars, but how Windows IE users can just accept that as if it's normal is beyond me. Dogg Just a small correction.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
| valuepac0
join:2001-05-30
Santa Monica, CA | Giant isnt what it use to be With the microsoft buy out of Giant features have been removed from Giant. An example would be weatherbug detection. Microsoft is recieveing pressure from the spyware companies and is caving in.rather than going through law suits. | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO
| Re: Wise words indeed Dude, that's no way to live. It should be a big red flag when you actually have to go through all that hassle just to browse around the web. Instead of accepting it, demand better - you guys paid for your software, you should get something usable in return for your hard-earned money.
Dogg | |
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Logan 5
Wondering what happens next..
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Wise words indeed said by Smitedogg :Dude, that's no way to live. It should be a big red flag when you actually have to go through all that hassle just to browse around the web. Instead of accepting it, demand better - you guys paid for your software, you should get something usable in return for your hard-earned money. Dogg Dogg:
You guys as in you are a Mac or *.nux user? This threads not about that old debate, but yes you are right about accountability because that crosses all borders and OS platforms.. | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO
| Re: Wise words indeed said by Logan 5 :Dogg: You guys as in you are a Mac or *.nux user? This threads not about that old debate, but yes you are right about accountability because that crosses all borders and OS platforms.. Yeah, I'm a dirty old GNU hippy, but like I said earlier in this topic, I'm not about the OS wars, I just can't believe that people find this to be somehow acceptable, especially paying customers. For the few (5 or 6?) commercial software packages on this computer, if something doesn't work as advertised I'm on the phone demanding a fix. I think if Windows users would start getting more upset about this and getting vocal, maybe Microsoft would actually listen and be more proactive. | |
| | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: Wise words indeed Yeah, but have you ever tried to call MS for an issue? I would rather deal with a fully infected machine browsing on a 14.4k connection then deal with trying to speak with someone that knows anything or would admit that it is something wrong with an MS product. | |
| | | Eye4got
join:2004-06-02
Lancaster, PA
| I have different computers that serve differing functions for me. I have a laptop that I do most of my browsing on, I have a non-laptop that serves DNS, FTP, SMTP, web caching server and filtering, VPN, terminal services and a lot more. Windows 2000, XP, or 2003 are quite workable, and just like anything else, you get back what you put in (Those of you who don't know about group policy, try looking around gpedit.msc to start taking control of your OS). If you are a "one size fits all" type of user, then the idea of different products for different purposes (whether it be OS, firewall, hardware, browser, or anything) probably won't make sense to you. My server doesn't run Windows XP. My server isn't used to browse the web or play games. It is maintained as a server should be, and was set up with the care and feeding any mediocre **IX user would use regarding their own **IX box. The truth is, a Windows based server can be very safe and reliable, but that may not happen if you "set it and forget it." When I first set it up, my machine ran Win2000 server, a few months ago I migrated it to Win2003. I occasionally go to the IRC hack channels and invite penetration attempts, and have for the past 2 years or so, not to mention trying it myself. Not one successful penetration nor DOS. The machine has run without trouble for 4 months continuously while performing quite well.
Spyware is complicated stuff. I remove much of it by hand. The Spybot-AdAware 1-2 punch gets the vast majority of it, what remains (or is recopied on delete or reboot) needs to be recognized, and removed by other means. As the functionality of an OS increases, so will the level of complication. An operating system is a lot like a car. A car can drive through rivers and climb hills (Jeep) or can drive the road like nobody's business (Dodge Viper). They're both cars, but they are geared towards different uses, pun intended  and they both require care and feeding appropriate for their purpose. I wouldn't expect the Viper to climb the hills and cross the streams, and the Jeep may not take the mountain roads at 150 MPH.
I think, for both an OS and a program, that I would rather not say there is one that is best across the board without considering the differences. Personally, I like the HijackThis way - provide the information, it's up to you to interpret it. On the other side, I have seen a few falses by the MS beta, based on directory and filename only. Why no string matches, and why is it presented as definite? When I am not feeling lazy I will create some dummy files and dirs of well known spywares and run Spybot and AdAware against them to see what happens. I prefer either more information or a miss, to an all-out false. A miss can be covered properly in an update. A false may (will likely) have some users removing legitimate software.
I would rather say that there is one that is most appropriate for a use. Still, I think that it should be easier to remove spyware, but because I understand the deep roots that spyware digs for itself, and the parts of the OS that it overwrites or replaces, and the places it hides itself, I do understand why there are many spyware removal programs. Have you seen the latest one that hides itself and runs from the recycle bin, even in safe mode? It only makes itself plainly evident by the inability to empty the recycle bin. Nasty.
There will be at least as many programs to remove spyware as there are definitions of spyware. "MS Error Reporting Service?" Weatherbug? SearchBuddy? Anything that sends or collects any data could conceivably fall into the unethical category unless it has been tested by a trusted, independent authority. I see the day coming where many people will only obtain software that has been checked by the trusted authority of their choice, not just because of the spyware problem, but also because of interoperability and performance issues. | |
| | 
heels_fan
1.20.09 The start of Socialism
Premium
join:2003-02-07
Columbia, TN
| but is all that necessary?
I mean i have Nat Router, Software firewall, Anti-virus, 2x anti-spyware and I use Firefox for my browsing.
I am not your usual everyday internet surfer either, i go to the bowels of hell concerning the internet. I have never been compromised nor have i have any major spyware (unless you think cookies are spyware)
I think that you can take it to the extreme, and overkill
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If guns kill people, then I can blame my spelling mistakes on my keyboard | |
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Logan 5
Wondering what happens next..
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
·Pacific Bell - SBC
4 edits |  Re: Wise words indeed
said by heels_fan :
but is all that necessary?
I mean i have Nat Router, Software firewall, Anti-virus, 2x anti-spyware and I use Firefox for my browsing.
I am not your usual everyday internet surfer either, i go to the bowels of hell concerning the internet. I have never been compromised nor have i have any major spyware (unless you think cookies are spyware)
I think that you can take it to the extreme, and overkill
I guess personal choice and the freedom to run whatever apps one wants to mean nothing here, because some think it's TOO MUCH?
I'm real curious to know when a person can have too much security, and who decides how much TOO MUCH really is.... maybe one of you can answer that for me?
EDIT: Example - Would Fort Knox be considered overkill for storing the US Gold Reserves because it has better security because of more checks and balances then having 2 unarmed rent-a-cop's guarding the gold in an unlocked shed? EACH measure works best, depending on the situation does it not?
I do online banking and shopping and even some stock trading and the security of my personal information is important to me for what I do.
Some of you obviously do far less so a lesser layered approach works in those cases....
This should really be about what works best for the people since unfortunately, people need to take personal responsibility for securing their own computers, because as it's been demonstrated by the Software Companies themselves, it's not THEIR problem so no one else will..
"If you want something done right - Do it Yourself" | |
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heels_fan
1.20.09 The start of Socialism
Premium
join:2003-02-07
Columbia, TN
| Re: Wise words indeed your right it is up to the individual on how he wants to handle his own security.
I do all my banking online (well 98% of it)
I bought just about all my Christmas this online, and I manage my 401K and several other finicial business I have online.
I am very comfortable about my security and the way my system is set-up.
I am not knocking any bodies line of thinking in the way they have their own security set-up.
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If guns kill people, then I can blame my spelling mistakes on my keyboard | |
| | Taranis
join:2001-12-06
Mount Vernon, WA
2 edits | I use about 1/2 of what Logan does. A/V, two spyware apps (not resident), NAT router w/firewall & an updated OS. That and "Practice Safe Hex" has worked very well for me over the years.
Unfortunately, common users barely know what spyware is, much less understand how to remove it, or even why it's bad to have. I've made about $1000.00 over the last year repairing people's machines because of it. | |
| |
Tech-2005
@pacbell.n
| Logan 5...You pretty much summed it up and for anyone out there who has had past problems with spyware or viruses take this list as a must do for all your Windows based computers.
For brands... I might recommend using a top rated antivirus company for your virus protection. McAfee VirusScan and Trend Micro PC-Cillin are very good. Kaspersky is good. Norton is good but slows down your system more than the others.
For antispyware I use all the free ones Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, MS-Antispyware, and Ad-Aware SE (on demand mode). I also use the paid versions of McAfee Antispyware and Webroot's Spy Sweeper (latest version 3.5). Yes I use ALL of these with the MS Antispyware, McAfee, and Spy Sweeper ALL using extensive real time protection.
Besides my NAT router, for software Firewall I use the latest Zone Alarm Pro 5.5 with MOBILE CODE restrictions ON and privacy settings on high.
I use Norton AV 2003 for antivirus (McAfee works very good also and is a little easier on system resources but I use that on my notebook computer.)
Finally, I mostly use Firefox browser.
Needless to say, I get very few if any spyware or viruses any more. I HIGHLY recommend using all the free antispyware programs and at least ONE paid one such as Webroot Spy Sweeper 3.5 along with the free for now Microsoft Antispyware. They all catch weird and hidden spy bugs that like to hide and nest in the dark corners of your Windows OS. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Uh huh Most of you know me as the guy with MANY security apps(AS/AT/AV/A?), I usually have a clean system(really?)... last night I decided to get SpySweeper again, updated it and guess what. It found a couple traces of NavExcel. This *AFTER* running Ad-Aware, SpyBot S&D, MS AS, and SpySubtract.
Overkill? I don't think so. IE? Nope(usually Opera).
I suspect these traces are from some questionable software downloads(browser is irrelavent). I imagine some of you 1 or 2 app people might have a few things you do not know about.
Will I continue to do weekly scans for crap? You betcha!
When I do these weekly scans, do always find s***? Nope, just sometimes.
Will I continue to download all kinds of s***? Yep!
Will I surf where most of you fear? You know it!
Have I reinstalled my OS? Nope!  (see next line)
I also have/use Acronis TI... is that overkill? Hell no!
Living in fear and locking your computer down so far the internet is boring is NOT for me.
I can click any link, no worries!
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No Firefox here, move along! | |
| wispman
join:2004-12-21
USA
| I hate spyware too but.... I hate it just as much as the next guy, but look at it from a business sense. If a spyware program removed all spyware, then it would run the spyware people out of business, thus running themselves out of business because there would be nothing to detect. They will never change to detect them all. | |
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whatsthatnurbut
|  Re: I hate spyware too but....
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| | bicho6
join:2004-07-30
home | Does your theory hold the same with anti-virus app's and companies? | |
| 
Viper007Bond
Premium
join:2002-09-26
Portland, OR
| Microsoft's I use Microsoft's which oddly is good. It caught the Cydoor that comes with eXeem while ad-aware did not. 
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I have a signature. | I also have a website/blog. | |
| | eric87m
join:2003-12-07
Princeton, NJ | Re: Microsoft's I use MAS + Ad-aware SE + Spybot. I'm pretty sure they get everything. | |
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Seanrp
@comcast.net | Re: Microsoft's I personally use spywareblaster and I think that has helped me a lot. I'd rather see a best prevention and cure not just cure. Why not review best spyware prevention apps? | |
| 
k_o
Que Hora Es?
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Lakeport, CA
clubs:
| my layers of choice FF is my primary browser, so that cuts out a lot and I have much more control over what I have to wade through to get what I want (Thanks to extensions like AdBlock!).
Aside from the soap opera of endless Win patches, router and anti virus,
I use the pay version of Ad-Aware
Spybot (give 'em a $5 donation, fer cryin out loud)
IE-Spyad;)
a2 anti trojan/spyware. BTW a2 is adding more functions like a sys editing tool.
I heartily agree, this is a ridiculous regime for everday stuff! I have had a hard time educating friends and family to learn and use these kinds of tools. Getting them to update them is almost impossible if it isn't automatic.
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DC Cruncher for Teams ECO & Starfire * MoveOn * MysteryLake.com hosted by gottadeal.com | |
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Anti-Spyware App Performance
Re: Words to surf by!
Wise words indeed