 t10
join:2003-05-25
Woodbridge, ON | Hahahahaha That is brilliant!!!!!!!
I love the world we live in. | |
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jose3030
Premium
join:1999-08-17
Manassas, VA | Re: Hahahahaha Wild. | |
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atangel
Now What??
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Bronx, NY | We are all in trouble if the spammer wins......... | |
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| | kpatz
MY HEAD A SPLODE
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH
| Re: Hahahahaha If the spammer wins, I'll cancel my internet connection and go back to using the phone and snail mail for all my correspondence.
I live in the same city as that spammer too... I could administer physical LARTs if so desired. Sneak in and squirt epoxy cement into the ethernet jacks on their computers or something...  Nahh, that would be stooping to their level, but it's fun to fantasize! 
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SMTP: Spam and Malware Transfer Protocol. Also used on rare occasion to transmit e-mail messages. | |
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tomkb
Premium
join:2000-11-15
Avon, OH
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Hahahahaha said by kpatz  :If the spammer wins, I'll cancel my internet connection and go back to using the phone and snail mail for all my correspondence. I live in the same city as that spammer too... I could administer physical LARTs if so desired. Sneak in and squirt epoxy cement into the ethernet jacks on their computers or something... Nahh, that would be stooping to their level, but it's fun to fantasize! Thankfully I saved my Commodore 128 and my copy of Wildcat BBS 5 | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY
| Re: Hahahahaha said by seaquake :What's next, a school kid suing another school kid for tattling to the teacher and resulting in detention? Well obviously the tattler has caused the bully lost income from lunch money shakedowns that would have occurred. Then there's the emotional damage from having to endure detention.
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
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antiphishing
Nigerian 419 Scam Baiter
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| Re: Hahahahaha said by Jason Levine : said by seaquake :What's next, a school kid suing another school kid for tattling to the teacher and resulting in detention? Well obviously the tattler has caused the bully lost income from lunch money shakedowns that would have occurred. Then there's the emotional damage from having to endure detention.
..and getting his pee-pee whacked by the cynical nun.
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»www.antihotmail.com
Dslreports.com Profile: »profile.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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Jafo232
You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Boonville, NY
| This guy is nuts, if you SPAM, then you are not welcome in my book.
However, I will be interested to see where this lawsuit goes.
I am a webmaster who has run a mailing list for several years, and logs every request when someone joins the list, logs responses to the verification email, and has designed the list software himself so as to instantly remove unsubscribers.
Even with all of those protections to insure only wanted users join my mailing list, I still get an occasional SPAM complaint in which I have no recourse even though I have all the records one could possibly get to prove the user signed up to the list.
Perhaps this suit might set some sort of criteria proving someone has been SPAMMED. Probably not, but I do think those that run a mailing list should be given the opportunity to prove the recipient had signed up on their list before an ISP takes any action against them.
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Register Your Gaming Clan at Clan-Council.com | |
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Ark
join:2002-06-08
Hudsonville, MI
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Hahahahaha The same thing happens to me on a mailing list I run. The thing is, every single complaint to my ISP has been seemingly automated from AOL.
I think AOL users get some junk button like you see in Thunderbird, but there is no way to take it back if you accidently click it, and users don't realize that it triggers a complaint to be sent out in the background automatically. They just think its as good as unsubscribing once they no longer want to receive the list's mail. | |
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Jafo232
You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Boonville, NY
| Re: Hahahahaha I hear that. I stopped accepting email addresses from AOL just for that reason. I get a few complaints from users about this, but I am like, complain to AOL, not me..
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Register Your Gaming Clan at Clan-Council.com | |
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rob_in_chatt
Premium
join:2004-09-17
Chattanooga, TN | spam dammit i coulda had first post but i went and read the article first  dohhhh! | |
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mAlfunkti0n
join:2003-12-16
Loveland, OH | Only in America. ..... Just another reason why the good ol US of A are full of idiots, they can prosper under our legal system. | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Donations. I urge folks to donate even miniscule amounts to Stuler, solely to help out with his legal fees. Normally I wouldn't sound all boo-hoo'ish about something like this, but spammers are now resorting to absolutely _absurd_ tactics to try and "prove their point" (whatever point that may be).
If you've never been in a legal battle with a company or organisation before, let me educate you for a moment, as I have been through one: even in the event that the defendant "wins" the case, ultimately, he still turns out to be the loser -- his attourney fees will haunt him for many MANY years to come. The basic technqiue of the plaintiff is: if you can't beat your opponent, take him to court and destroy him financially. When it comes to anything legal, the phrase "time is money" is quite steadfast.
Also keep in mind that financial issues of this kind will likely affect Stuler's credit rating, which could keep him from living a financially "normal" lifestyle.
Sadly, we United States citizens live in a sue-happy country. Take a moment and help someone out who obviously has a good set of morals, and will take time out of his day to report immoral and illegal behaviour to proper authorities (re: complaining to ISPs about unsolicited spam).
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Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
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4REAL
@swbell.ne | Re: Donations. How do you know he is legit and not trying to scam you out of a few bucks? | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Re: Donations. said by 4REAL:
How do you know he is legit and not trying to scam you out of a few bucks?
Read the legal documents. They're not even OCR'd -- they're literal image scans of the summons and the case.
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Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
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lilricky
@rr.com
| Re: Donations. Ok, thats fine, but the question was, how do you know that his is legit and not trying to scam you out of a few bucks? I could make up anything and scan it. Perhaps we should search here. | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
| The whole court thing is time consuming, stressful, and cost money. I went to court against my former employer last year, and I was lucky enough, the "plantiff" decided they didn't have enough of an arguement, so they decided not to show up. By default, I won. After that I contacted them about reimburstment for my time, lawyer fee's, and other expenses regarding the case. At first they didn't want to do crap but hang the phone on me, but I threatened to drag them to court for it. Three weeks later, I had a check in my mailbox.
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"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius - - - - - - - - - - - Streamfire.net- - AIM - CoNFuCiUsNiCk | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Re: Donations. said by technick :Three weeks later, I had a check in my mailbox. That's impressive. Consider yourself lucky that your previous employer didn't show up -- had they, things might have turned out a lot differently (re: refusal to pay legal fees).
Glad to know you came out on top, though.
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Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
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SSX4life
Premium
join:2004-02-13
>_ lolz | cry me a river Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get the FU*K over it!
--SSX-- | |
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| mAlfunkti0n
join:2003-12-16
Loveland, OH | Re: cry me a river I hope your saying this to the spammer, otherwise your an idiot. If the spammer wins this, that means its going to be easy for anyone who complains about them to be sued too. | |
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SSX4life
Premium
join:2004-02-13
>_ lolz | Re: cry me a river of course 2 the spammer. Everyone knows I need to refinance my mortgage on my house seeing how I don't even own one.... Oh and did I mention the enzyte and other crap in my inbox on a daily basis?
--SSX-- | |
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| | | mAlfunkti0n
join:2003-12-16
Loveland, OH | Re: cry me a river Oh oh oh but those enzyte comercials .. "he was firm" .. ROFL | |
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coop_dog
join:2004-08-12
Orangeville, ON | whouldn't it be funny.... Wouldn't this be funny if this were a very well prepared scam for cash..
Boo Urns to spam!
Mike Cooper | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY
| The Charges It looks like he's being sued for "Tortuous Interference with a Contract" and two counts of Defemation. The first charge apparently hinges on the fact that the defendent reported the spamming to the ISP who then cut off the spammer's Internet access. Sure, this interfered with the spammer's contract with the ISP, but he was just reporting an abuse of their services. If this is accepted by the court, then anyone sending spam onto abuse@isp.com will be opening themselves to a lawsuit.
The second charge (Defemation) seems to hinge on the wording that the defendent used to describe the spammer. He used words such as "criminal" and "notorious spam gang." Of course, the spammers insist that their business is completely legal and that the defendent knew this when he made the statements.
What's at stake here for the defendent is loss of time and money fighting the case and loss of more money if he loses to pay for the spammer's attorney fees and lost income. Needless to say, this could financially ruin him (or at least put him in severe financial trouble). What's at stake here for the community is the ability to report spammers without worrying about being sued. If the judge rules in favor of the spammer, then anyone reporting spam will be opening themselves to a lawsuit. (And don't think that the spammers aren't watching this as closely as we are to see if they can begin a round of lawsuits.)
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
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antiphishing
Nigerian 419 Scam Baiter
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
edit:
January 17th, @02:43PM
| Re: The Charges said by Jason Levine : The first charge apparently hinges on the fact that the defendent reported the spamming to the ISP who then cut off the spammer's Internet access. Sure, this interfered with the spammer's contract with the ISP, but he was just reporting an abuse of their services. If this is accepted by the court, then anyone sending spam onto abuse@isp.com will be opening themselves to a lawsuit.
Their is absolutely no merit to this claim due to the fact that the spammer was in violation of the Internet Providers Terms Of Service which clearly gives them the right to end a contract because of complaints.
--
»www.antihotmail.com
Dslreports.com Profile: »profile.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| Read the facts I posted this in the security thread but I think it has merit here also.
This spammer's suit has no merit (as if that was a news flash)
If you read all the links provided, you'll find copies of e-mails such as this excerpt
"As a result of the listing in SPEWS, Lightship Telecom has terminated its services for Atriks and there are no longer any active services within their formerly allocated IP range: 216.204.150.0/23"
I can't believe this suit wasn't dismissed immediately. According to his ISP, his service was not terminated because of this guy, but rather because of SPEWS and all the the other blacklists he managed to get listed on. | |
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MemphisPCGuy
Senior Systems Engineer
Premium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN
edit:
January 17th, @10:04AM
| Not to mention... if the spammer wins, all Anti Spyware/Spam/Adware software would more than likely have to be pulled off the market.
Precedent setting cases such as this are what's necessary, however absurd they appear, to set the boundaries within the law. | |
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drkkgt
Boo
Premium
join:2003-08-26
Whittier, CA
| Re: Not to mention... Even SpamHaus shows entries back to 2002 by other people. Look at the bottom of their page with the years.
»www.spamhaus.org/rokso/evidence.···=ROK2839
Also, check out Atriks site and read the first paragraph about what they do. Seems to me their lists aren't just opt in.
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42 79 74 65 20 4D 65 | |
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PublicExecutionNow
| DEATH to ALL Spammers !!! Publicly execute these SCUMBAG SPAMMERS and we won't need to worry about malicious lawsuits, will we ??? | |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI | Rediculous!! Absolutely absurd!! | |
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damox
Premium
join:2002-01-07
Olympia, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Looks Like Jay Needs Help! While on the surface it would seem that Brian Haberstroh has no case, I think Jay needs to be extremely careful here. Unfortunately these days, lawsuits often have little to do with right or wrong, but rather who has the best lawyers! I believe that Jay needs the help and backing of one or more anti-spam organizations. Hopefully this case will get nation wide attention.
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DAMOX Proud to be a member of Team Discovery | |
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| hskrfan23
join:2004-03-18
West Sacramento, CA | Re: Thank the feds! yay, more power to the spammer, I hope ya make some good money off this, if what you're doin is legal..if what your doing was illegal..too bad ya got caught, hehe | |
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Anon_Name
| Re: This looks like a Fake??? All y'gotta do is to have someone go to the court house and ask to see the filing. It's public record. That should settle the argument about it's validity pretty quick.
I won't voice any support or non-support for either side....  | |
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| remusrm
join:2003-04-07
Northridge, CA | sooner or later will b the good old wild west.... cant wait... | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI | Just so you know... the courts use MS Word (and Word Perfect, etc) just like the rest of us do. | |
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Kill The Spammers
@139.169.x.x | The documents do list an address for the spammer...
I say we go over and beat the truth out of him. | |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs: | Re: This looks like a Fake??? Why beat the truth out of him, just beat him. Round us up a mob, I'll get us some pitchforks.
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Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club | |
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| Plaguetard
join:2004-12-31
Oceanside, CA
| Re: Boy I hope I don't know why everyone is so surprised. The **AA started this fashion trend, so why on Earth shouldn't other people just as evil hop on the 'sue everything because we have more money then they do' band wagon? I'm sure all spammers will begin to be able to sue people who ask to be unsubscribed from mailing lists.
Next, the internet companies will sue everyone who complains about their internet not meeting the advertised speeds, and we will decend backwards through time to 56k modems at dsl prices. | |
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GamerSupreme
join:2004-08-31 | One question One question.
If this lawsuit is designed to financially ruin the guy doesn't it work both ways and also financially ruin the spammer? | |
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| BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: One question said by GamerSupreme :One question. If this lawsuit is designed to financially ruin the guy doesn't it work both ways and also financially ruin the spammer? The spammer I am sure has a built up account to prevent that from happening.
These people are people who do nothing with their lives and just spam, but any person who likes what they do would fight like there is no tomorrow if their well paying job has been axed. So why would the spammer not fight ?
If New Hampshire lets this fly, then, I swear I am gonna just move to some part of the amazon jungle where I can live off gathering fruit for the rest of my life.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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SnowHeart
@sbo-ubr1.sbo-ub
| Fake or Real legal documents First, the summons request sent to the sheriff and the complaint could be perfectly real and valid. Those types of documents are written on MS Word or Word Perfect, just like any other document. Many attorneys do the same thing with actual summons, as well. Contrary to popular perception, there is nothing magical about a summons or a subpoena. It comes from an attorney as an "officer of the court," not from the court itself. I'm a 3L law student here in Boston and when I was interning for a law firm last Spring, I drafted about a dozen "summons" just by opening up a word template we had created, plugging in names, checking off some boxes as to the type of summons/subpoena and sent it off to a process server in the relevant jurisdiction. So, these documents could be real, or they could be fake... there's really no way to tell just by looking at them.
And, until I see some real news coverage, I wouldn't use that paypal donation thing. The suit may be very real, I'm not saying it isn't, but there's nothing there that proves to me it isn't fake, either. Maybe someone could look up the lawfirm on that letterhead and see if it's legit? | |
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biochemistry
join:2003-05-09
92361 | How Do They Know? Forgive me if I missed reading this somewhere, but how in the world did the spammer find out who complained? | |
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mondoz
join:2000-08-26
Houston, TX | Re: How Do They Know? Part of the suit accuses the defendant of posting these complaints on message boards, as well as sending them to the ISP.
I'm guessing they're associating the two events, and assuming his complaints were the only ones against them. | |
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ERicken
@158.112.x.x
| If you go to Google groups and search for "Jay Stuler" in news.admin.net-abuse.email, you'll see how. It is no secret that spammers lurk in NANAE. There is no way they could have missed all the shrapnel coming Atriks' way.
Also, some of the evidence used by Spamhaus and SPEWS are picked up from NANAE, posted by regulars. Atriks has been on all kinds of blocklists for a very long time, something their entry in ROKSO speaks volumes of.
Stuler wasn't simply forwarding spams to Lightship's abuse desk, instead, he was vocal about calling a spade a f**king shovel in a public newsgroup. For this, he is sued.
Aberstroh needed a scapegoat for his desperation lawsuit and picked Stuler. In NANAE, there are at all times at least a dozen people who could theoretically be sued for the same reasons Stuler was, but it rarely happens until some major mouthbreathing spammer arsehole with an ego the size of Mt. Everest and morals the size of a pinhead comes along.
Atriks will lose this case, and Jay Stuler will continue to mallet spammer testicles until they are all gone. So will I. In the meantime, donate a fiver to Jay. You can eat McGarbage at your local fastfood joint today, or you can enjoy email for the rest of your life.
What's it going to be? | |
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Jay Stuler
@cboss.com
| Hi I stumbled on this page through Google, and I just thought I would respond to one thing.
Re: this being a scam, or the documents somehow being 'fake'.
1. Who I am...
2. Who my lawyer is...
3. Who Atriks is...
4. Who Atriks' lawyers are...
...are all fairly public information, a simple Google search will tell you this.
I'm certain that all law firms involved will confirm that this lawsuit exists and who their clients are. The lawyers' status can be confirmed through the NH Bar. This means that we would all have to be in on some sort of scam, all of us using our real names, and the lawyers risking their legal practices, all for some sort of Paypal scam?
I don't know how else to prove this lawsuit is real. If you still have any question then I suppose you will have to contact the New Hampshire court. They don't have a website listing civil cases.
I also assure you that all donations are going directly to my legal expenses. I can show you my last unemployment check if you think I am somehow making big bucks Paypal kind of sucks, but they are basically free, which makes it my best option to use.
To everyone else, thanks for the support, especially those who donated Even if you, for some reason, think I'm a big jerk and I deserve to be sued, then keep talking about it, the publicity helps too | |
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| 8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: Hi I don't think you have to worry, the case will probably be thrown out since it lacks merit as pointed out by others. First, an ISP will not terminate a users contract based on the complaints of one person. They are bound to a contract with their user, and I'm sure they would require compelling evidence of a violation of their terms of service before terminating their contract, especially with a commercial high volume customer. Even though most TOS and ISP contracts favor the ISP with the right to cancel who they want for about any reason, it takes a whole lot, like bad press or the risk of their whole net block being blacklisted, before they'll bite a hand that feeds them.
It's highly likely they had a rash of complaints about the spammer, coupled with the fact they were listed on the spam blacklists. I'm sure that they investigated thoroughly and/or monitored their activity to gather evidence to support their action. You should contact the ISP if you haven't already, and find out if they are being sued as well. They might even or support you in fighting the jerk, financially or by providing evidence or records of other complaints about the spammer.
If ISP hasn't been sued, that could add merit to your case. Lawsuits like this usually shotgun to every party involved in the action, and are usually directed at the ones with the biggest bucks to lose. If they bypassed the ISP, it's probably because they know they violated their TOS and have no case against the ISP. If they singled you out among others who complained, then it's just plain harassment and thrown out as a frivolous suit. If they were trying to recover a legitimate financial loss, they would sue the ISP since they have the biggest pockets.
Gather anything you can to support your complaints..articles on the anti-spam or other sites, any e-mails you have which may violate CAN-SPAM, any links or instructions on the ISP's website that invite the reporting of spam. Try to find out if other ISP's have terminated their service for the same reason.
If you deleted the spam, try using Google desktop search tool to index your system, and it may find and index some old e-mails that are still in a hidden disk cache somewhere. Outlook and IE sometimes lose track of their cache and start new ones, leaving the old stuff on your disk, so the indexer may find it.
Your calling the guy a 'criminal' may be a problem if he's never been convicted of anything, however defamation usually requires the victim to show that lasting or permanent harm was done. Your one to one conversations to the ISP shouldn't count. Internet postings are a gray area, since web sites are still a limited audience and not like the front page of National Enquirer. Web forums, while public, are considered expressions of opinion, not fact, and most people know that, I hope!
I don't think you have much to worry about. | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
|  Media coverage.
Also, for those curious whether or not "this Stuler guy is just a scam artist", his existance can be verified over at the OCLC, or by looking him up at Ohio State.
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Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
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Spammer Bites Back
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