 |  | Goldman
join:2002-06-21
Maumelle, AR | Re: Absolutely This doesn't legitimize 180. We can now toss COAST onto the same steaming pile with Aluria, WhenU, Gator and the others. You're either with us or against us. | |
| | | 
koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA |  Re: Absolutely
| |
| | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Does this mean we toss in all of COAST's members into the big steaming pile too, or just whatever COAST as a group says?
I'd hope that Computer Associates, Webroot, etc. are not too pleased that they're about to fall into the same category as the crapware vendors themselves. | |
| | | | Goldman
join:2002-06-21
Maumelle, AR
| Re: Absolutely said by AquaBlaze  :Does this mean we toss in all of COAST's members into the big steaming pile too, or just whatever COAST as a group says? I'd hope that Computer Associates, Webroot, etc. are not too pleased that they're about to fall into the same category as the crapware vendors themselves. I think we do toss them if they continue their relationship with COAST. CA and Webroot will have to decide if they want to associate themselves with spyware companies or not. I hope not. | |
| | | 
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| said by Goldman :We can now toss COAST onto the same steaming pile with Aluria, WhenU, Gator and the others. You're either with us or against us. When I read this post I thought of the scene in the MTV show "Jackass" the one where they where diving from a ladder into a maggot filled pile of elephant crap. Yes I agree Poo diving would be a fitting thing to happen to them.
--
Real Men use Vacuum tubes, 25 pound filament transformers, and plate voltages no less then 2400 volts...BPL I'm coming to get you | |
| | | 
Rickez
Goinginsane
join:2000-09-02
Three Rivers, MA | Re: If you can't beat them; join them »www.coast-info.org/
Reading the web site of COAST it is easy to see they are just chock full of S***. | |
| | | 
salient
@rr.com
 from:
TamaraB
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them Another excellent reason to switch to Linux ... You may not have realised a glaring fact by now, but they have.
The fact is they need each other ... The AV and Antispyware groups needing to have scumware to scan for ... and the scums need some of their stuff to go undetected to survive.
Do you think it's an accident that these marketing groups have gotten richer and richer over the years? ... doubling in numbers, just like the antispyware company's.
If the antispyware apps worked half as good as they claim they do online marketing would be a dying business ... and they would't be getting richer and richer every year.
switch to Linux and shake loose of all of these scumbags ... starting with the biggest spy of all ... Microsoft. | |
| | | | 
RedXII1234
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
localhost
Host:
/dev/null
Broadband Tweaks
ISDN
Fiber Optic
AOL Broadband
edit:
January 15th, @03:59PM
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them I want:
-Auto mounting of removable media (Windows seems to already know the file system and ISO type... hmmm...)
-Native gaming support for all Windows titles
-Auto detection of all my hardware, hence the need to not run xorgconfig before running the GUI
before ever considering moving to Linux. It's a waste of my time if I can't plug in my USB thumb drive or my iPod without being able to immediately use it.
That said; you are probably running with very limited privileges which is something most Windows users never do, because they don't know any better than "internet explorer is the internet." If users ran as a limited user and only used the administrator account for certain administrative issues, then Windows would not have even have half the problems it has now.
--
Asus A7N8X-X, Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0GHz, 768MB Crucial DDR RAM (PC2100), GeForce FX 5600Ultra 128MB DDR AGP, nForce NIC, Samsung SD-616T 16x DVD-ROM and Sony CRX215E1 48x24x48 CD-RW, 40GB & 30GB HDD. | |
| | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them said by RedXII1234 :That said; you are probably running with very limited privileges which is something most Windows users never do, because they don't know any better than "internet explorer is the internet." If users ran as a limited user and only used the administrator account for certain administrative issues, then Windows would not have even have half the problems it has now. This needs to first start with the software vendors themselves. Most software (game titles especially) assume that the current user has full Administrative control at all times. Personally testing several games and apps, only a small amount were able to run w/o tweaking involved...and some had files located god-knows-wherever, that I just gave up trying to find out what I needed to give Users access to.
So, don't blame your average computer user for not running as a Limited User...most current day software doesn't make it easy for you to do so to begin with. | |
| | | | | |
RedXII1234
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
localhost
Host:
/dev/null
Broadband Tweaks
ISDN
Fiber Optic
AOL Broadband
edit:
January 15th, @04:19PM
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them Had no problems using this little guy:
As for "tweaking", the concept is the same in Linux as it is in Windows. The whole idea is to not to let them do anything they want on the system as a limited user, or easily for that matter.
Linux: Open console, type "su" then the password that goes to root, then exec the install.
Windows: Right-click, "Run as..." and provide credentials for an account with administrator privileges.
So the average computer can still be blamed. Works in Windows 2000 as well, and including Home Edition of XP.
--
Asus A7N8X-X, Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0GHz, 768MB Crucial DDR RAM (PC2100), GeForce FX 5600Ultra 128MB DDR AGP, nForce NIC, Samsung SD-616T 16x DVD-ROM and Sony CRX215E1 48x24x48 CD-RW, 40GB & 30GB HDD. | |
| | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
edit:
January 15th, @04:29PM
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them I thought you were supposed to only do the "Run as..." was for Administrative tasks, such as installing software, chaging settings, etc.
I would personally have all my family PCs running as limited users, but the whole "making them have to do 'Run as...'" every time they wish to run an installed application would drive me nuts. Hell, it took me a YEAR to break them of the habit of opening up AOL to access the internet.
Me: No...we've been on DSL for the last few months, you don't NEED to run AOL to get on the 'net. You're always on! Just open the browser.
Family member: Web browser...you mean AOL, right?
Me: *sigh*
| |
| | | | | | | |
RedXII1234
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
localhost
Host:
/dev/null
Broadband Tweaks
ISDN
Fiber Optic
AOL Broadband
edit:
January 15th, @04:32PM
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them I guess we share something.
I am the only knowledgeable person in this house, we have 2 laptops and 2-3 desktops, one of which is mine. I run the desktop downstairs as limited users. They tend to get viruses and adware, not knowing the difference between Yes and No (they assume everything you have to say 'Yes' to).
If they want something installed, they have to ask me, and I do the Run as or login with my admin account. If they get infected, I don't want that computer compromising mine and nor do I want to fix it. They'd be very lost without me.
I would still want the said Linux features implemented though 
--
Asus A7N8X-X, Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0GHz, 768MB Crucial DDR RAM (PC2100), GeForce FX 5600Ultra 128MB DDR AGP, nForce NIC, Samsung SD-616T 16x DVD-ROM and Sony CRX215E1 48x24x48 CD-RW, 40GB & 30GB HDD. | |
| | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| (add on)
I think you're a wee bit confused. I don't mean that they have a problem installing things under a Limited user...I completely understand that.
I meant having a problem RUNNING certain applications...Diablo II comes to mind. By installation default, I wasn't able to run DII as a limited user, w/o setting the whole Diablo II directory to users having Full Control. Other programs involved giving limited users more rights to vague folders all over the system.
This is what I meant that software vendors need to do the first step, and make their software more "limited user" friendly by default. Don't make me search for whatever folder(s) your program has installed itself into, test & see what rights we need, etc...just have me be able to install as Admin, and run as a limited user w/o problems. | |
| | | | | | | |
RedXII1234
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
localhost
edit:
January 15th, @04:48PM
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them I can agree with that, not the user's fault.
I don't like Linux because it's "su command, run install; then the user configures, configures, configures, configures, ..." | |
| | | | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them Which is precisely why I have to leave my family PCs running with users w/ full admin rights. Otherwise, I'll be spending buttloads of time, trying to figure out exactly what tweaks I have to make to my installed programs to make them "limited user" friendly.
The current most popular app in use at home is WoW, and I think even that might not run correctly if launched by a limited user.
Thanks for your input, BTW. I thought I was the only one going crazy in this situation here. ^_^ | |
| | | | |
rte
@cable.rogers
| "
-Auto mounting of removable media (Windows seems to already know the file system and ISO type... hmmm...)
"
Gnome and kde do this already..hmm
"
-Native gaming support for all Windows titles
"
nope
"
-Auto detection of all my hardware, hence the need to not run xorgconfig before running the GUI
"
Hotplug does this...what distros have you been runing?? | |
| | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them Games and alternate Linux apps are kinda the current desktop killer for the 'nix alternatives. True, yes, there (usually) is a Linux alternative app for every app you're used to running in Windows, but the time spent on Googling/researching/finding these hidden gems is enourmous. Usually if the manufacturer didn't make a Linux alternative themselves for a certain kind of program, I just didn't even bother looking around. (spending hours on Google isn't my idea of fun)
Let alone system plug-n-play ability - wireless is a great example. Every hard-core Linux fan will say that "wireless is supported" in Unix...but I so far haven't gotten it to work. Hours of fiddling with various packages, settings, and system tweaks, and I have yet to get my wireless card to detect squat. So, yes, it might be supported, but if it requires me to dedicate a day of research just to get the stupid thing to work...most people (and I) don't even bother. $70-170 is well worth it to me (and most others) to spend on an operating system that hardware manufacturers BUILT the damn things to run on.
Games are another field where, much like the Mac, a lot simply JUST DON'T WORK. Yes, you could run an emulator, (which alone eats up a great portion of system resources) or crack the files and later run into errors, (which, after hours of Google-searching, you find have yet to be solved) but it just isn't worth it.
Now, if Linux (or any other OS) could overcome those two hurdles, I'd be the first on board to happily switch over.
PS. Please don't respond with the "games that only run on Windows aren't even worth playing" statement. I love my games that run, even if it's only in Windows. Sure, it might've been shallow for the game programmers to not design 'ports, but it was their decision to make. | |
| | | | | | |
rte
@cable.rogers
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them There was an attempt to port Win games ot Linux at lokigames.com, but they went out of busniess. Maybe you'll find something there...
The problem is mostly in DirectX, but »www.transgaming.com/products_linux.php Cedega (based on WINE) is a for pay option. | |
| | | | | |
RedXII1234
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
localhost
Host:
/dev/null
Broadband Tweaks
ISDN
Fiber Optic
AOL Broadband
edit:
January 15th, @10:00PM
| Linux detects my hardware, all that scrolling text, but I can't run gnome without telling it yet again my hardware
Gnome did not auto mount my CDs. Sure, something popped up on the desktop but it claimed it wasn't mounted. So I had to manually mount it. | |
| | | | | | |
rte
@cable.rogers | Re: If you can't beat them; join them What distro were you using? I use gnome and kde daily (different computers) and they all have automount installed. | |
| | | | claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA | [q]Another excellent reason to switch to Linux ... [/q] What does that have to do with anything? There is just no sufficient installed base of Linux desktops run by technically inept people to justify any kind of adware effort. | |
| | | 
fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Atlanta, GA | I find it funny that Weatherbug is a member of COAST. ROFLMAO! | |
| | | nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA | Well, the latest news from them date back in May 2004, so I guess they kindda??? | |
| | 
Nanoprobe
Wandering in subspace
Premium
join:2003-05-11
Orlando, FL
| Agreed! And the internet will continue to decline into a money grabbing at all cost cesspool. No wonder so many users are leaving. 
--
Never look back.Something might be gaining on you. | |
| | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: If you can't beat them; join them The articles written about in the newspaper are purely speculation. They inverviewed a few disgruntled grannies getting porn, and assume that means there's a mass exodus occuring of people leaving the 'net. Current statistics show that MORE people are joining the 'net, and getting faster and faster speeds even. (more signing up for broadband every day)
Until the news agencies produce SOME kind of number, stats, or facts about "people leaving the 'net", the stories themselves have no merit. | |
| 
Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T Yahoo
edit:
January 15th, @01:03PM
| COAST can no longer be trusted anymore Now that they've allowed an adware company to join their
ranks, one must really question COAST's integrity and
trustworthiness. And by extension, this could now apply
to their member companies. Aluria we know has already gone
over to the dark side. And if CA and Webroot don't want to
be seen in a similar manner, it would be wise of them to
disassociate themselves from COAST.
BTW, are Lavasoft and PepiMK still COAST members? Or did
they pull out some time ago?
Edit: I just read over at grc.spyware that Patrick Kolla
refused to join COAST, while Lavasoft actually pulled out of
the organization some time ago. Also, a quote from one
of the GRC regulars that sums this up pretty well:
said by Mark V:
When you finally get enough foxes into the henhouse, only foxes
reside there. It is now a fox den, not a henhouse.
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors. | |
| | bobince
join:2002-04-19
DE
| Re: COAST can no longer be trusted anymore Lavasoft pulled out a long time ago, with some fanfare. PepiMK were never part of it in the first place.
This is the end for COAST. nCase have not made *any* efforts at all to reform; they are still installing on IE security holes to this day.
CA and Webroot will have to leave this laughing-stock of an organisation. Even WhenU and Weatherbug are going to find this association embarrassing. | |
| | | mcmanta
join:2003-04-21
Plainview, NY | Re: COAST can no longer be trusted anymore well its good to know that some software can't be bought! | |
| ced06
join:2004-03-12
Towanda, PA | ridiculous I hope someone DDOS attacks 180Solutions. No really, I do. | |
| | 
Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
| Re: ridiculous It's on the list, we'll get around to it 
But seriously, we need to send a clear message to members of coalitions like these who don't produce / promote / aren't affiliated with spyware products themselves that they are making a big mistake by signing on people from the 'other side', until they have proven that they have changed their stance.
--
Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club | |
| 
mrchris
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Pathetic Who in their right minds would invite an adware company into COAST? Sad day. | |
| | Kai Kln
join:2005-01-15
Monroe, WA
| Re: Pathetic Just playing devil's advocate here...
COAST is the Consortium of Anti-Spyware Technology. It's not the Consortium of Anti-Adware Technology. They're saying 180solutions isn't spyware. That's all. Advertising isn't illegal, you know.
Like I said, just playing devil's advocate. | |
| | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Pathetic Yes, but promoting practices like installing via IE exploits, deceptive EULAs, installs that can't be canceled out of, and software that doesn't fully uninstall IS Spyware, and exactly what 180solutions and other "Adware" companies do. Their programs are exactly like viruses, only with an EULA hidden deep within the crapware so they can legally weasel themselves out of responsibility.
People wouldn't have a problem with Adware if:
A.) They clearly informed the users that they were getting advertisements by use of such software. (no, size 1 font fine prints doesn't count)
B.) When the user canceled from an install, it REALLY canceled the install. (not just going ahead and installing the spyware anyways)
C.) Have the software easily uninstallable if the user wants it out of their system. (no 1001 "are you not not sure you want to not uninstall?" screens, no hiding the uninstaller, and no leaving a component to just re-install the spyware 1 hour later)
But, since these companies would never agree to terms that allowed their customers to no longer be under their patronage...they will continue to harass PC owners everywhere until someone steps in with some heavy-hitting legal action. | |
| | | angryoracle
join:2005-01-27
Stratford, CT
edit:
January 27th, @08:07AM
| I agree. From what I've read, 180's transition from apps that clearly violate privacy standards to applications that are more respectful in this regard will take 90 days. Their alleged intentions are rightfully seen as laudable. But I say let's see what they're made of. Maybe some of the more prominent adware companies have taken notice of CoolWebSearch and related groups and realized that malicious installations and dishonest conduct isn't a sustainable business model.
All the mudslinging against COAST seems like the same anti-business refrain we've seen in the wake of the corporate accounting scandals. The implication is that every single adware company is guilty until proven innocent. They're not to be judged individually based on their own conduct, but by an impossible standard of justice that proceeds from the idea that all advertising, anywhere, is bad. | |
| | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Pathetic said by angryoracle :The implication is that every single adware company is guilty until proven innocent. Considering the destructive tendencies of their software, running histories of just sheer "nastyness", etc...yes, I'd probably demand a hell of a lot of evidence to the contrary.
These guys are worse than used car salesmen, lawyers, and pawn sharks combined. Would you automatically "take their word" every time they just pledge "we've changed"?
Hell, a lot of the "spyware-safe" applications out there (KaZaA for instance) play this sob song until the cows come home...but not only is it STILL spyware in every sense of the word, but it's simply crippling in terms of what it does to the installed system. | |
| xm4yh3mx
join:2005-01-11
Princeton, NJ | lets hope ad-aware stays legit. lets hope ad-aware stays legit. does anyone know what clan spydoctor is in? | |
| claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA
·Speakeasy
| For inside info What better way to figure out how to beat anti adware solutions than to get inside info on anti adware techniques? That's why most of those scumbags probably watch forums like this one, and spamming tool developers probably also subscribe to spamcop--they want to stay abreast of the latest detection techniques so they can work around them, and the cat and mouse game goes on...
People who use legitimate but free tools without ever making a donation should think hard about this... It's awfully hard to stay honest without revenue. | |
| 
viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
| Best interest or self interest? This to me is like ADT home security making deals with the criminals. We depend on ADT to protect out home just like we depend on a anti adware/spyware to protect out computer.
When a person can no longer depend on a adware/spyware vendor to protect there computer, what does it say about the anti adware/spyware community as a whole? Who can we depend on or not depend on? As we seen, we have Microsoft that is in 95% of the computers making deals with adware/spyware vendors.
Maybe these anti adware/spyware companies can be sued for false advertising? How can a anti adware/spyware company say they will make your computer adware/spyware free when they are making deals on the side with the very companies they are suppose to protect the computer user from?
There are many questions being asked but we are not getting straight answers. | |
| 
Doci
Toothless Fairy
join:2003-02-01
·Bell Sympatico
| hilarious What is fuckin hilarious is, their install confirmation does not come close to their uninstall torture they put your through. During the uninstall process they want to be so certain that you really want to do it that you can equate it to checks and balances for a nuclear strike orders.
--
An ISO 14000 registered service provider. | |
| | | |
|
|
Absolutely
If you can't beat them; join them