 moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| This bill is trouble.... This bill is probably laden with back door clauses and vague language.
Ask for permission, wait 6 months then, IF Verizon says it will build, wait another 18 months before something happens with no guarantees. Guess someone is getting paid by Verizon.  | |
|
 | 
Sr Tech
Premium
join:2003-01-19
New Fairfield, CT | Re: This bill is trouble.... Umm sounds like Rendell is handing Verizon a monopoly. This will hit the courts, it wont last. | |
|
| | |
| 
downtownman
@speakeasy.n
| you're close. actually, if VZ doesn't offer the service, then they have 12 months to wait before they respond, and another 14 months to implement the service at whatever price they see fit. | |
|
| 
bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| Not to single-out any RBOC over another because they all do it…but it is interesting to note that the “Verizon Family” has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to PA politicians over the past years – in each major election year - under a variety of company and PAC names:
VERIZON
VERIZON PAC
VERIZON PENNSYLVANIA PAC
VERIZON PENNSYLVANIA STATE PAC
VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS
VERIZON WIRELESS
VERIZON PENNSYLVANIA POL ACTION CMTE
VERIZON/BELL ATLANTIC PENNSYLVANIA PAC
It’s known as FTTP (Fifties To The Politicians)…
Can I buy you now? | |
|
| |
wait
@optonline.net | Re: This bill is trouble.... Filthy rich tax coffers
To
The
Poor
House
you so' po' the Amish had to start gambling casinos just to keep up with the Verizon fleecing of Pennsylvania! | |
|
dslwanter
Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH
1 edit | Verizon I wish they would focus more on giving rural communities broadband first. I remember what it was like not to have it until about 7 months ago. | |
|
| Mizfit
join:2002-06-05
Whitehall, PA | Re: Verizon Exactly my point, so many areas in the black hole, let's not concentrate on a city that has 100 percent broadband coverage. | |
|
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Yeah right... Steal billions of PA taxpayers...then give them the double slap by blocking the deployment that VZ won't do.
Hey VZ, give back the billions you defrauded the taxpayers out of ya jerks! | |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
1 edit | This bill should have gone further Too bad this bill did not ban outright municipal involvement in the broadband racket. As if our property taxes were not high enough as it is.
The city-owned Philadelphia Gas Works is arguably the best example of what will happen should the city decide to offer WiFi broadband access.
--
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
|
| 
DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: This bill should have gone further Yeah, I mean this VZ bill could set a precedent for all private companies' involvement in local government.
Maybe MS could have a bill passed in Washington to make the government ask before they set up a Linux instead of a MS one.
Man, this isn't about what Philly is doing with tax dollars. This is about a BUSINESS telling the government, YOUR govenrment, how they should serve YOU.
--
] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
|
| |
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: This bill should have gone further said by DaSneaky1D  :Man, this isn't about what Philly is doing with tax dollars. This is about a BUSINESS telling the government, YOUR govenrment, how they should serve YOU. I know what this bill is about, all I am saying is that it does not go far enough in preventing municipal governments in this state from wasting more money from already high taxes on stupid things that we do not need.
Everyone in Philadelphia who wants broadband can get it already. There is no need for the city to offer broadband. As CtrlAltDel mentioned, the city has many other serious problems that it should be resolving instead.
--
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
|
| | |
DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: This bill should have gone further I see your point. I also see the point that private companies shouldn't dictate how you are governed.
This is the same as the RIAA using the Justice Department to execute their private interests.
--
] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
|
| |
downtownman
@speakeasy.n
| This bill should die a quick and merciless death Right on DaSneaky...I've been screaming that from the get-go.
I agree that Philly needs to work on at least 1,000 other things before wireless. (Potholes? The damned wage tax?)
But Verizon needs to keep their corporate hands off the legislative process. Period.
If citizens like pnh102 want to rise up and pound on their congresmen's doors, I'm all for it. That's America baby.  | |
|
| 
staticx57
join:2002-01-24
Toms River, NJ
clubs: | I disagree, true that that the city should focus on more important things, but leave it open for future options. banning them from putting community owned broadband options in the STATE is ridiculous. | |
|
CtrlAltDel
Worse Than Carter
Arbitrary Text
join:2001-12-30
Backyard
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year Stop the Wi-Fi, fire the city communications czar and hire more Police to end the killings.
Jerome Mondesire, head of the local NAACP, said on TV, "If any of these children had been killed by a white man, blacks would be marching on City Hall. Because all of these deaths were black-on-black nobody cares".
Philly needs to repair their highways and rid the city of blight. Wi-Fi will not help Philly. It will line the pockets of our corrupt mayor and his cronies (many of whom are already under indictment on unrelated charges).
--
Mission Accomplished 4 More Great Years. Democrats can stop whining now and try to help our Country with love instead of spewing the hateful resentment of losers. | |
|
| 
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year So you can only fight crime or provide Wi-Fi? Not both? | |
|
| |
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year said by Karl Bode :So you can only fight crime or provide Wi-Fi? Not both? Well what is more important, having your kid get to school to receive a crappy education without being gunned down or being able to get online? What would you want your local government to focus on first?
--
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
|
| | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year Yes I understand your point, but who says the Wi-Fi network is taking priority over crime prevention?
And what's to prevent the network from being used for government efficiency and law enforcement?
--
Vote Palpatine/Skywalker '05: Moral Values for the Republic! | |
|
| | | | 
Smokey
I killed the Wabbit
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year Well, apparently the city of Philadelphia is saying that. The Fire and Police departments there are not as well funded as they could be, and thats the point he is making. Sure, a wifi system would be nice, but lets think of where the money is best spent.
As to using the network for ES, sure they could do that, as my city has, but then why open it up to more users who could create real bottlenecks for emergency traffic?
That said, I as don't think giving VZ anymore incentives to deliver a system that was promised years ago is right either.
--
Ama me fideliter. Fidem meam noto decorde totaliter et ex mente tota sum presentialiter absens in remota | |
|
| | | | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year Well I think you make an important point....in that people can debate the merits of a muni broadband or Wi-Fi system on a case by case basis according to need.
Philly may very well need other things first.
But what's happening here is your bought and paid for lawmakers are passing a bill requiring communities to seek Verizon approval first.
I see no other point to statewide muni bans other than to minimize competition and prevent bell profit erosion. These bills holds Verizon to deployment criteria nobody can effectively measure, much less is willing to enforce.
--
Vote Palpatine/Skywalker '05: Moral Values for the Republic! | |
|
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by pnh102 : Well what is more important, having your kid get to school to receive a crappy education without being gunned down or being able to get online? What would you want your local government to focus on first? And why are the schools crappy?
1. Schools forced to take bad students (hence the reason test scores are lower.) Private schools can be selective.
2. Discipline in public schools is lacking. Can't even put a kid in time out without a lawsuit.
3. Parental involvement is lacking in inner city schools. Most parents either don't care or are too busy with their own lives to care about their kids. Also, if their child fails, it is the teachers fault, not the kid's fault even though they didn't do their homework or constantly skip school.
4. Teachers not having a level of accountability that makes them want to teach. Some are only interested in the latest union contract and pay rate.
As I said above, kids can be safe but the community (not just government) needs to put in their half. | |
|
| | |
| | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year quote:
Karl, Philly is a corrupt city
Which is why Verizon is getting a chance to pass a bill that's little more than a wish-list. In fact I'd be shocked if they didn't have some hand in writing it.
quote:
I cannot see how this project will benefit the citizens of Philly
But doling out gifts to Verizon benefits Philly? Banning every community in the state from muni-networks benefits Pennsylvania?
People can debate the quality of their muni plan, but these bans are not necessary. Their sole purpose is to prevent Verizon from having to face competition. Period.
How does that benefit you, Joe consumer?
--
Vote Palpatine/Skywalker '05: Moral Values for the Republic! | |
|
| | | |
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year said by Karl Bode :Their sole purpose is to prevent Verizon from having to face competition. Period. This is incorrect. Verizon already faces plenty of private sector competition in the Philadelphia region:
•For broadband service, there is Comcast, and probably some private wireless broadband providers as well.
•For local phone service, there are numerous CLECs, and any cell phone provider's basic plan is much cheaper than Verizon's toll rates.
•For cell phone service, there are 4 major competitors to Verizon Wireless in Philadelphia: Cingular/AT&T, NexTel, Sprint and T-Mobile.
No private business can successfully compete against a government run service. That is the only reason Verizon is trying to ban Philadelphia from running a wireless network. Personally, this issue shouldn't be on the table for any city, let alone one which already faces a horde of more dire problems.
--
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
|
| | | | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
4 edits | Re: 26 Children Killed In Philly This Year "Probably" some wireless providers and "numerous CLECS"?
Are you living in reality?
Verizon DOMINATES the landscape in the northeast united states. Cable is the only threat, and won't be once Fios comes out in five years and Verizon can offer video. The only competitive threat is cable, and Verizon wants to keep it that way.
You cannot spin broad muni-bans as being good for users and consumers, because the move is about pure profit.
As for Verizon Wireless, they do see competition, and actually provide quality service because of that competition.
quote:
No private business can successfully compete against a government run service.
And this statement is based on what? UPS? Fed Ex? They do pretty damn well.
The need for muni involvement should be addressed on a case by case basis. Particularly in areas where the incumbents won't serve (yet ironically want to ban community driven broadband anyway). | |
|
| Mizfit
join:2002-06-05
Whitehall, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·ProLog
| They need a hell of alot more then cops to ease parts of Philly, they need the national guard, maybe even more. But I agree in that Philly does not need a WI-FI network when they have more then enough problems abroad, but don't let Verizon be the ones to tell you that. | |
|
| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by CtrlAltDel :Stop the Wi-Fi, fire the city communications czar and hire more Police to end the killings. Jerome Mondesire, head of the local NAACP, said on TV, "If any of these children had been killed by a white man, blacks would be marching on City Hall. Because all of these deaths were black-on-black nobody cares". You know why no one cares? Because the community doesn't care.
Baltimore, MD. and Philly are very similar. Here, a child was killed by a stray bullet on his footsteps. People saw who did it. It took a week before someone finally ratted the guy out. Why? Because he was being protected by the neighborhood.
The NAACP doesn't do enough to tell the black community to turn in their brothers and sisters who are selling drugs and killing people.
said by CtrlAltDel :Philly needs to repair their highways and rid the city of blight. Wi-Fi will not help Philly. It will line the pockets of our corrupt mayor and his cronies (many of whom are already under indictment on unrelated charges). The blight will always remain when the community has apathy and wants the government to fix it all. | |
|
| 
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by CtrlAltDel :Stop the Wi-Fi, fire the city communications czar and hire more Police to end the killings. Jerome Mondesire, head of the local NAACP, said on TV, "If any of these children had been killed by a white man, blacks would be marching on City Hall. Because all of these deaths were black-on-black nobody cares". Well, Philly police has a serious problem recruiting quality applicants. You have to live in the city an entire YEAR before you can sit for the test, and that's before you deal with the consent decree currently in place.
With all the good colleges surrounding Philly, you would think they would get smart and include the surrounding counties like NYPD does. There a lot of very qualified applicants of all races and backgrounds that, even for the sub standard pay, would be willing to jump into what is, for lack of a better term, a quagmire, and turn it around.
I'm college educated, and have 7 yrs full time experience, and I would jump at the opportunity to work Philly PD, but I'm not moving to the city for a year just for the "off chance" I MIGHT get hired. No thanks, I'll stay out here in the suburbs answering false burglar alarms and doling out parking tickets. At least they let me live where I want..
Philly had better wise up and get their priorities straight as a city. Most of the East coast megalopolis has made quite a turn around in the past 15 yrs. Philly is the exception to this rule.
It really is a shame. | |
|
SSX4life
Premium
join:2004-02-13
| I actually heard about this on NPR! :-0 I actually heard this on National Public Radio!  Strange on how they described it. Basically they said that the "mass majority" pushing the bill are nothing more then a minority of computer geeks.  | |
|
Mizfit
join:2002-06-05
Whitehall, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·ProLog
| Un-believable There are so many areas of PA that are completely under served and ignored when it comes to the broadband market. Any politician or official that even thinks about giving Verizon relief should be shackled and burned at the stake. People are only trying to get what they don't have, is that too hard to understand. It's not really about Philly here in my opinion, as all of Philly pretty much has broadband options, its the other thousands of suburb and rural communities that Verizon and other telecom and communications companies ignore. | |
|
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | VZ says wait 'til 2015(?!) for 100% DSL deployment ...in Pennsylvania, and that's only if the bill passes!
I say if it's going to take that long for VZ to provide DSL to the citizens of Pennsylvania, the governor should dump the bill, and let the local governments do it sooner. | |
|
Awol411
join:2002-01-14
| screw wireless, fix septa its something like 10 million bucks the city would be spending to get the worlds largest hotspot. its too bad nobody will be here to use it. the public transportation system in philly (septa - septa.org) is 62something million in the hole. if we dont get help by january, like 1500 people will be fired, there will be no weekend public transportation, anywhere, severly reduced daytime service, weekday service ending around 8pm, and a massive fair hike. um without public transportation, the city will fall apart, without wireless internet, well, the city will still fall apart. but there is no reason to spend all of that money where there are things needing it like public transportation | |
|
waiting4fios
@verizon.ne
| Hmmm?? Let's see....
Scenario 1
1)Philly provides free wi-fi so "everyone" cancels their paid broadband provider (Verizon or Comcast)
2)Philly no longer collects taxes on profits from Verizon's broadband services.
3)Lost tax revenue + Free Wi-fi = higher taxes for YOU.
Can somebody explain to me how Philly can give you free wi-fi please? Where will the money to install and maintain it come from? Seems like the money would have to come through taxes, and as it is, it seems like the taxes you pay aren't enough for adequate police coverage. Those of you complaining obviously haven't learned a basic truth. NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. You pay for it some way or another, you should thank Verizon from saving you from yourselves.
(Besides I need Verizon to make as much money as possible so I can get my FIOS quicker) | |
|
|
|
|
Verizon & Philly Negotiate
