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Broadband Gaps Persist
Minorities, rural users still not wired
The digital divide is still very much alive when it comes to broadband, according to a new study from the Commerce Department. While the number of broadband connections doubled from 2001 to late 2003, rural areas and minority users (1 in 7 blacks and 1 in 8 Hispanics have broadband) are still being left behind, the study concludes. During the election campaign, President Bush advocated affordable access to high-speed Internet services for all Americans by 2007.
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chesney09
Premium Member
join:2004-07-26
Howell, MI

chesney09

Premium Member

Can yA Blame them?

If there isn't any money in it.. You think they will wire it up... Just to be NICE? Yea right!

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D

MVM

Re: Can yA Blame them?

Who's to say there isn't any money in it?
MoJoe16
join:2004-09-17
Joplin, MO

MoJoe16

Member

Re: Can yA Blame them?

There isn't as much money in it.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Can yA Blame them?

That's why many of them receive subsidies. That's why we pay into the USF.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to chesney09

Premium Member

to chesney09
the profit margins arent as big, if they had to wire rural areas for HSI the CEOs of the telcos/cablecos might only be able to get a Cadillac that year instead of a Rolls Royce so they never would let that happen. the feds need to use the TVA and wire up rural areas. back when electric power was becoming popular only cities had it and farmers didnt because the corperate goons didnt see profit out there, government had to step in.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium Member
join:2002-03-05

NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

Re: Can yA Blame them?

So why should we waste taxpayer money to wire these areas? There are options for those who live in rural areas where DSL and cable Internet is not offered.

1. Dial up Internet
2. Satellite broadband
3. Some of these areas offer wireless Internet

I see no need to waste my money to allow these folks to have broadband. If they want it, let them pay for it themselves.

LoneGreyWolf
Premium Member
join:2002-09-09
Winter Haven, FL

LoneGreyWolf

Premium Member

Re: Can yA Blame them?

1. While you right anyone can get dial-up, for me being in College dial-up is rough on my research. I have limited time between work, family, and college as it is. I do my research at home because I have 4 children to take care of. The only thing available that's viable is dial-up. While I am researching I get page time outs, pages take minutes to load, PDFs take sometimes 20 minutes to load. The highest my connection will go is 28k. The nearest town to me is 10 miles away and this is NYS. I can't go to the local library because they only have dial-up as well, so the same would happen. The college is 30 miles from me so money wise it would be rough to go to the college when I am not scheduled to be in class. Dial-up is really not, as far as I am concerned being considered when doing webpages anymore.

2. Satellite broadband is not an option for my family. The FAP is not worth the price of the service. We are heavy internet users. I get invited to download betas all the time for games, now mind you it takes weeks to do, but I still am able to do it. Some of these betas would put me over the FAP in one day, not to mention the fact that our normal everyday usage would exceed the FAP. To me the price per month isn't worth the hassle of the FAP.

3. There is no wireless where I live either. It's hard to get cell service up here in the hills/mountains. I have talked to wireless providers and they will not put up a tower unless I can get enough people to sign up ahead of time. Well the people here aren't interested in broadband, but I bet they would be once it was up and running. They just don't want to sign up for it first.

As you can see, while I use dial-up, day-by-day it is becoming more of a hassle to use even for regular internet stuff as webpages become more broadband oriented. Satellite is not an option for the monthly price that it is and having a FAP. Wireless is not an option since they will not put up a tower for only me. I welcome a small raise in my taxes if it means I get to have broadband and actually be able to do what is now becoming a hassle with dial-up. IMHO broadband is now a necessity and not a luxury. Broadband is becoming the standard for everyday webpages on the internet.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium Member
join:2002-03-05

NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

Re: Can yA Blame them?

The bottom line is that you have access to broadband but due to the choices that you've made you don't have it. It seems rather selfish to expect taxpayers to foot the bill for something that is still a luxury. (Internet access itself is not a necessity, IMO. There are still plenty of people who do not have access to the Internet and are getting along just fine.)

Let's look at the choices you've made:
- You have decided that it is not worth the 30 mile drive to your college to have broadband access while doing your research. It is not impossible to drive that distance; you have just decided not to. The part about having kids... Well, there is day care and there are babysitters. If you really needed to be at the college during some time outside of class time, you could/would be there.

- You have decided that satellite broadband access to too expensive for you. I would suggest that if it were that important to have broadband access and satellite was your only way of getting it, you would find some way to pay for it. You would re-arrange your finances, take on a renter in your home, take on a second job... There are ways to pay for things that we feel are important. It is a matter of priorities, and you have decided that there are other priorities that are more important than satellite broadband. That's OK, there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect taxpayers to foot the bill for something you could pay for yourself. This would be like me saying that buying the NFL Sunday Ticket game package wasn't a priority this year, but we should have taxpayers cover the cost of it because watching football is a necessity.

I will certainly agree that broadband connections have become more important while surfing the Internet. But I will not agree that broadband is a necessity-- it is still a luxury. And luxuries are things that the government should not be providing to people at taxpayer expense.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Can yA Blame them?

Well two things. Broadband is very quickly shifting from luxury to an information utility.

Secondly you'll probably be paying for other people's broadband no matter what via the USF.

Since that's kind of an inevitable, I'd be more concerned with how this money is being thrown at companies to deploy in these areas with no real measurement criteria.

Look at the rampant scams they found in the E-rate program, which is funded by the USF fee on your phone and DSL bill.....

Pennsylvania taxpayers have shelled out something like $3 billion dollars for a 45Mbps fiber network never built. Industry is full of incentives doled at for products never offered.

I'd focus on making these programs work, first so that the taxpayer money that is going toward broadband programs isn't being wasted.

I don't think telling rural people to move is very helpful, IMO. They would have services if the tax-money already paid was properly used.

LoneGreyWolf
Premium Member
join:2002-09-09
Winter Haven, FL

1 recommendation

LoneGreyWolf to NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

to NOVA_Guy
"You have decided that it is not worth the 30 mile drive to your college to have broadband access while doing your research. It is not impossible to drive that distance; you have just decided not to."

It's not that it's not worth it, but I can't afford the gas to go there when I am not scheduled to go. The money has been budgeted for me to go when I have to be there. I can't go beyond those times, I can't afford it.

"The part about having kids... Well, there is day care and there are babysitters."

Have you checked the price on daycare? If I can't afford to put gas in my car to go to the college how do you think I can afford daycare? Babysitters? That's a funny one! I wouldn't subject the babysitter to my hell kids! I would go through them like thwy were water, trust me on that.

"I would suggest that if it were that important to have broadband access and satellite was your only way of getting it, you would find some way to pay for it. You would re-arrange your finances, take on a renter in your home, take on a second job..."

My finances have already been rearranged in order for me to go to college, they can not be rearranged again. Can't take on a renter in this house, only have 3 bedrooms and 2 of those are my children's, 2 boys and 2 girls, sorry can't put them in the same room, as far as I know it's against the law to do that. If I already work a full time job and go to college full time and am a full time father, where do you expect me to take on another job? if I was to do that I would fail in college.

I'm sorry that i don't find satellite viable for me, but it isn't ever going to be a vialble option for me. Please don't forget that my taxes also pay for these things as well and you know what, it makes me proud to know that some of it actually goes to help people in need!
LoneGreyWolf

LoneGreyWolf to NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

to NOVA_Guy
One other thing... I pay the same amount of taxes you do, and you know what? We don't get trash pick-up, have to pay for that extra, don't have water service, get that from a well, don't have sewer, have a septic system that needs to be kept up and costs money, but yet I pay those same taxes as you. If they are going to charge me the same taxes, it should go towards something like broadband subsidizing.
mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA

1 edit

mglunt to chesney09

Member

to chesney09
There are still places without cable tv. HSI is a luxury. Companies don't want to spend money that they won't be able to make up. In many areas, it is a bad investment.

BTW, bringing race into broadband? Pathetic.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

pnh102

Premium Member

Move to where the broadband is

<sarcasm>
Maybe all these people ought to move into Oregon's public housing projects so that they get broadband paid for by the rest of us.
</sarcasm>

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D

MVM

Re: Move to where the broadband is


Maybe people in Florida should move to where hurricanes don't hit so we don't have to pay increased insurance rates and higher taxes for federal relief funds.

Maybe farmers should leave the fertile ground they produce on just so they can catch up to technology.

Some people live where they live regardless of their financial status.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

Re: Move to where the broadband is

said by DaSneaky1D:

Some people live where they live regardless of their financial status.
And whether or not there is broadband.

Nice to have...but can live without it.

batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium Member
join:2003-01-25

batageek to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
maybe they should move to PA where the legislature gives the state away to Verizon instead of its citizens.
runlevelfour
join:2002-06-12
USA

runlevelfour to pnh102

Member

to pnh102
So since youre going to make sarcastic comments about our tax money going to social programs for those who are working poor/Social Security etc. why not cry about the fat arsed government were supporting? Maybe all these people ought to move into the HOMES of our governing elite so that they can get broadband paid for by the rest of us. I think that would have been a bit more even dont you?

I am so TIRED of listening to people complain about the money spent on the poor. QUITE a few of these people are working poor, and I myself was raised in a family with one income. We were working poor, "low income" and it was because we had one able bodied adult. What little help we got wasnt enough, and I would spit in the face of anyone who declared my family lived off the generosity of the state. I was working as soon as I was able. You can thank the many employers who skate away with fat profits due to minimum wage laws, and exploiting those who need a job.

You guys want to complain and whine? Why dont you look at some of the governments OTHER spending habits? Including a war that we started which is costing us billions. I dont think all the social programs combined spending even approaches what were paying to keep fat politicians living in luxury while they throw our brothers, fathers, sons into a meat grinder in a country we invaded.

sweintz
Premium Member
join:2002-03-01
Chester, CT

sweintz

Premium Member

Re: Move to where the broadband is

Nagalaz, I could not have said it better myself.

Such a small percentage of federal spending goes to social programs it's scary. I'd bet the armed forces spend more on cofee in a month than the feds spend on public housing for a decent sized city in the same time period.

If someone wants to whine about providing 1 shared dsl line at $30 a month for all the residents in 1 apt bld in oregon to share, F*CK 'em.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium Member
join:2002-03-05

NOVA_Guy to runlevelfour

Premium Member

to runlevelfour
said by runlevelfour:

So since youre going to make sarcastic comments about our tax money going to social programs for those who are working poor/Social Security etc. why not cry about the fat arsed government were supporting?
I thought that was part of what people are complaining about. The government wastes plenty of money on social give-away programs; complaining about them is doing precisely what you are asking-- complaining about the government wasting money.
said by runlevelfour:

Maybe all these people ought to move into the HOMES of our governing elite so that they can get broadband paid for by the rest of us. I think that would have been a bit more even dont you?
I see... Your mentality suggests that you resent anybody who makes more money than you, regardless of the job they do or how hard they work, simply because they make more money than you do. Why don't you try living in their shoes for a while before you suggest that they're earning more money than they are worth?
said by runlevelfour:

I am so TIRED of listening to people complain about the money spent on the poor.
That's good. I'm tired about complaining about our government wasting money on the poor. We can end both of these right now-- the complaints, and your listening to them-- by simply ending our wasteful social give-away programs.
said by runlevelfour:

QUITE a few of these people are working poor, and I myself was raised in a family with one income. We were working poor, "low income" and it was because we had one able bodied adult. What little help we got wasnt enough, and I would spit in the face of anyone who declared my family lived off the generosity of the state.
Did you have cable TV? Did you have a computer? Did you have anything except the basic "food, clothing, and shelter" type things? If you did, then go ahead and spit at me. Those who live on social assistance should not be able to spend money on luxuries like cable TV and the internet. If they have money to spend on those, then they should be using that money to help support themselves by paying for their basic "food, clothing, and shelter" needs first. Paying for luxuries while living on public money is like spitting in the face of every taxpayer.

My apologies if you grew up in a household that just provided the basic "food, clothing, and shelter" type things... It's just that I'm sick of hearing every liberal out there whine about how we should all be giving more money to the poor. Most of them are hypocrites-- they whine about everybody not giving more to the poor, while they do nothing about it themselves. If it's so damn important to them, perhaps they should stop wasting their time posting about how everybody should be forced to give and start spending their time giving themselves.
said by runlevelfour:

I was working as soon as I was able. You can thank the many employers who skate away with fat profits due to minimum wage laws, and exploiting those who need a job.
Your perspective is really skewed, my friend. Employers pay people what the job is worth. Thanks to minimum wage, some employers pay people more than what the job is really worth. Besides, if you didn't like the job you had, you could have always looked for others.
said by runlevelfour:

You guys want to complain and whine? Why dont you look at some of the governments OTHER spending habits? Including a war that we started which is costing us billions.
War? Oh, you mean the liberation of a nation of people... One thing many of you liberal fascists seem to ignore is that IRAQ WAS A THREAT. Another thing liberals seem to ignore is that SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS A MADMAN AND A DANGER TO EVERY PERSON IN HIS COUNTRY. Another thing that liberals seem to ignore is that THE UN SANCTIONS WERE NOT WORKING, mainly because of nations like France and Germany (who were supposed to be our allies?) who were dealing with Saddam Hussein in secret, undermining the sanctions. This was a just action, and a noble cause.

But go ahead and keep on believing that this was Bush's war. Go ahead and keep on believing that Bush lied to us (even though Kerry and many Democrats agreed with him until it was politically expedient to not do so). Go ahead and keep on believing that we aren't doing any good in Iraq. I surely won't be the one to convince you that you're living in stupidity-land.
said by runlevelfour:

I dont think all the social programs combined spending even approaches what were paying to keep fat politicians living in luxury while they throw our brothers, fathers, sons into a meat grinder in a country we invaded.
Give it a rest already. Are we going to have to listen to another four years of whiny drivel from every liberal out there? This once was a good site to visit, but recently has become nothing but hostile toward anybody who has a viewpoint other than the official liberal "give the world away and make the rich and middle class pay for it" stance. I guess that's a great example of how tolerant the liberals are of any alternative views. Every time the Democrats claim that they are the "party of tolerance" I have to try hard to keep from laughing or throwing up, depending upon how serious the person making the statement appears to be.

Oxygen
Times Square can't shine as bright
Premium Member
join:2001-12-04
Huntington Station, NY

1 recommendation

Oxygen

Premium Member

You want to experiment?

Drive around a nice white neighborhood with Netstumbler, and you'll find your self 50 access points to connect to.

Then, take a spin through a run down neighborhood where the hispanic and african-american population dominates, and you'll notice a significant drop in WAPs. Why? Because they simply don't need it and because putting food on the table is more important than downloading nakedhotgirl.mpg at 500kb/s.
53059959 (banned)
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone

53059959 (banned)

Member

Re: You want to experiment?

actually it would be nakedhotgirl.avi (divx compression)

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D to Oxygen

MVM

to Oxygen
That is the biggest assumption I've heard all day. Maybe it's because no one in that area has a need for a wireless AP? Maybe it's because that area is mainly served by cable companies, and cable companies DO NOT push cpe with wireless capabilites.

In my neighborhood (predominately black area), you see countless AP's. Why? Because SBC pushes those 2wire modems/wireless routers like crazy.

City/"minority" does not constitute poor.

roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

roamer1

Member

Re: You want to experiment?

said by DaSneaky1D:

That is the biggest assumption I've heard all day. Maybe it's because no one in that area has a need for a wireless AP? Maybe it's because that area is mainly served by cable companies, and cable companies DO NOT push cpe with wireless capabilites.

In my neighborhood (predominately black area), you see countless AP's. Why? Because SBC pushes those 2wire modems/wireless routers like crazy.

City/"minority" does not constitute poor.
Funny you mention it -- in many cities, it's actually easier to get DSL in poor/minority areas than in affluent areas because homes in poor areas tend to be close to the COs that serve them, while homes in affluent areas tend to be far from the COs that serve them and are often on DSL-killers like DLCs, FTTC, etc.

-SC
ToasterOven4
join:2003-12-02
Madison Heights, MI

ToasterOven4 to Oxygen

Member

to Oxygen
Nothing is more important than downloading at nakedhotgirl.mpg at 500kb/s

ATTek
Got Sand?
Premium Member
join:2000-12-13
Glendora, CA

ATTek

Premium Member

Minority? Low income? Right.........

If I had a dollar for every order I've had to put $30+ DSL service on a $10 "universal lifeline" account I could have bought a small island by now.
cooperaaaron
join:2004-04-10
Joliet, IL

cooperaaaron

Member

Re: Minority? Low income? Right.........

Why don't you get some of these broadband providers like SBC to donate the service then, give " low income " people a tier of 256 up / 256 down internet service tier, clean up those computers that companies ( like SBC ) get rid of and donate them ? Then drop the lifeline accounts so no one that is not " low income " has to pay for any " free service " that " low income " people use ???

The solutions are right in front of you....

So, after these things are done, I don't have to read about " low income " people being a drain on our country anymore...
cooperaaaron

cooperaaaron

Member

Re: Minority? Low income? Right.........

This in today's news: WASHINGTON — The IRS increased its audits of wealthy taxpayers this year, helping the agency haul in a record $43 billion in unpaid taxes.

Wonder why the rich stay rich ????



Use this money, the money these people hide to do some good in this country...

sweintz
Premium Member
join:2002-03-01
Chester, CT

sweintz

Premium Member

Re: Minority? Low income? Right.........

and that 43 billion is more thgan the government spends on public housing in a year.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium Member
join:2002-03-05

NOVA_Guy to cooperaaaron

Premium Member

to cooperaaaron
said by cooperaaaron:

Why don't you get some of these broadband providers like SBC to donate the service then
It wouldn't be a true "donation". The broadband providers would make it up somehow by charging their paying customers more for the service in the long run. Keep in mind that any time a business donates anything it's not actually the business that donates it... it's the customers of the business. If the business had not planned to donate money/equipment/etc. through the year, they could have lowered their prices to their customers, thus saving you and me some money.
said by cooperaaaron:

So, after these things are done, I don't have to read about " low income " people being a drain on our country anymore...
You will always read about low income being a drain on our country. Why? Simple. Because they are. Any time public funds are given to people who sit at home and watch "The Price Is Right" and "Guiding Light" all day, keep in mind that your taxes could have been lower if they didn't get money from the government. These people are, in essence, taking money from your pocket and my pocket.

sweintz
Premium Member
join:2002-03-01
Chester, CT

sweintz

Premium Member

Re: Minority? Low income? Right.........

said by NOVA_Guy:

said by cooperaaaron:
You will always read about low income being a drain on our country. Why? Simple. Because they are. Any time public funds are given to people who sit at home and watch "The Price Is Right" and "Guiding Light" all day, keep in mind that your taxes could have been lower if they didn't get money from the government. These people are, in essence, taking money from your pocket and my pocket.
Yes, they are taking money out of your pocket (and mine) -- but it's less than 1% of what you pay in taxes. There are much more wastefull things tax money goes to.

Scree
In the pipe 5 by 5
join:2001-04-24
Mount Laurel, NJ

Scree

Member

interesting

So by left behind, do they mean just affordability, or access coverage? If affordability, then I always thought broadband was a luxury, not a right. (Or did Dan Quayle make it a right, I forget...hahaha) So where's the "Luxury Car Gaps Persist" news report? hmmm But if they mean access coverage, well, not every place has paved roads either. lol

Luker3
join:2004-10-09
Blacksburg, VA

Luker3

Member

Rural areas aren't where poor people live!

Ok, sometimes people aren't poor, they just live very far away. Not everyone can affort 100+ acres, but a good amount in rural areas can, and are. I'd paid $150 a month for 512/128 out here, but it just isn't available out here. It is the compaines that don't want to help people like me, that is the real problem.

Only competiton in rural areas is dial-up, and I think broadband can beat that.

••••••••••••••
flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA

flushls

Member

Broadband Luxury Vs. necessity

5 years ago BB was a luxury item, however if you work from
home or run a farm which is what rural really is about. It is very much a necessity. I won't go into all the details but I will say time is money and dial up is a waster of time.
I think however that price for BB is more issue that coverage. You can get T1 most anywhere but in the country with mileage it cost over $1000 a month.

Also to cover a point about USF to the person above. USF does not cover general BB deployment ETC. And many area such as mine qualify for USF but don't get them.

Flushls
ToasterOven4
join:2003-12-02
Madison Heights, MI

ToasterOven4

Member

Re: Broadband Luxury Vs. necessity

Why don't 'they' pay for it like everyone else. If they can't afford it then every whiney liberal chip in and buy it for them - Just quit forcing me to pay for it!