 NetEng_Dude
join:2004-07-17 | BPL is Faux Broadband BPL is destined to be the broken-down bus blocking traffic on the information super highway. It just makes no sense for local politicos and utilities to pour taxpayer money down the drain on third-rate, proprietary Internet technology. | |
|
 | 
Ryno
The Wanderer
Premium
join:2001-04-07
Danielsville, PA | Re: BPL is Faux Broadband I would get it.
I can not get any decent broadband where I am.
I know 4 people who have BPL and every one of them is satisfied. 2 are gamers, one a p2p guy. | |
|
| | 
wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: BPL is Faux Broadband And therein lies the problem. What on Earth makes you think that if the cable plant head end or the Telco's DSLaM is not wired for broadband in your neighborhood - that BPL will solve it? Where do your friends live in relation to town or city center? Where do you?
Cable and DSL have their limits too on wire distance. Especially if cable does not penetrate your neck of the sticks, BPL which costs so much more on the home to implement in wide area deployment certainly will not.
I said it before, and I will say it again - BPL is a smoke-n-mirror one dog and one pony show. People will get bored with it when it does not scale according to plan and promises and move on.
--
Nothwest Arkansas' ONLY all Techno Radio Webcast, powered by SBC DSL! | |
|
| | |
Ryno
The Wanderer
Premium
join:2001-04-07
Danielsville, PA
edit:
November 3rd, @12:42PM
| Re: BPL is Faux Broadband oops, double post thx to the non responsive one way cable internet I have. | |
|
| | |
Ryno
The Wanderer
Premium
join:2001-04-07
Danielsville, PA
 ·RCN CABLE
| 2 way cable ends at the house next to me(Though about 950' away) They refuse to extend it.
Verizon RT about a mile from me(fiber fed for a decade), no tech has even heard rumors about them providing DSL through it.
Electric company did away with meter readers, it is read automatically and sent back via fiber. I can see the maps with fiber runnings all around the valley I live in.
BPL, is my best shot. No it won't be 7MB down, or fios. But I can live with BPL if they provide 2/3 of the 1.5 up and down. This should be no poblem as the people I know with it are getting the full 1.5 | |
|
| | | | Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
edit:
November 3rd, @02:44PM
| Re: BPL is Faux Broadband do you know how the latency is on bpl? | |
|
| | | |
wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Fayetteville, AR
| Well, there you go - if your BPL solution borrows some of that there fiber's broadband, you will blow everything away as far as speed is concerned! Sans interference as a result if they use that fiber. But still, you did not answer the question of where your BPL provisioned friends are in relation to town, and cross that with your distance from town. I am really curious to hear about that. I am surprised that power companies did not already use their "right of way" on their own utility poles and lines to string up a fiber loop network. *THAT* is the stuff to build BPL on, no free radiating wires.
--
Nothwest Arkansas' ONLY all Techno Radio Webcast, powered by SBC DSL! | |
|
| | 
sorne guy
@milwwi.ameritech | i'd buy it just to piss off all the ham operators that ramble on and on about 911 and how emergency services need them and and blah blah blah
if possible, i'd like turn up the interference, maybe with some steel rails under my lawn | |
|
| | | |
| | | hrobins
Premium
join:2000-10-15
Regina, SK
clubs:
| I agree with Wolfox, what a sad man. Thing is if you turn up the interference, The FCC would come after you. Ham Radio is under part 23 if I recall right. BPL is under part 13???
We have to be liceased to use our part of the radio band, and ham radio has a higher prioitry then BPL. In other words, you cause interference, not only would the BPL be turned off you would be facing some serious fines.
Howard Robinson
KG4GSN/VE5GSN
ARES/Skywarn | |
|
| | | szoruba
join:2004-07-25
Tinley Park, IL
| Go BPL! The sooner, the better. And don't trash people who do public service.
If you caused such interference, you would be breaking an FCC rule, which is punishable by fines and/or prison time.
A ham radio operator was able to communicate during a hurricane disaster (when the phone lines were down) and able to direct medical assistance to me. He saved my life!!!
How stupid can someone be to post their illegal intenions?
Ask Mommy to explain this to you  | |
|
| 
aztecnology
Space 4 Rent - 10 tool points
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA | I would only consider it as a last resort... | |
|
| nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA
| said by NetEng_Dude  :BPL is destined to be the broken-down bus blocking traffic on the information super highway. It just makes no sense for local politicos and utilities to pour taxpayer money down the drain on third-rate, proprietary Internet technology. BPL isnt a faux broadband, but given it enough time, you will see the out come. I would imagine people who hunger for broadband, but DSL is outta reach and Cable is just ripping off for 60-70 a month instead of 30, they will go for it.
Just wait and see. | |
|
|
5mbps-1gen
| I sat in on a BPL demo and ran a test - showed just under 5 mbps using current generation eqpt. Next gen coming out in 1st qtr 2005 will get avg 25 -30 mbps to home. | |
|
|
| Roop
join:2003-11-15
Ottawa, ON |  Re: No
DSL and cable blow it away. emerging city wide Wi-Fi is a much more worthy cause. | |
|
| 
jwsmiths
Part Man, Part Mac
Premium
join:2003-10-25
Savannah, GA | No way, I don't want this interference causing waste of internet anywhere near me.... | |
|
| 
Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs: | I would say something else but alot of people would take it the wrong way I think. | |
|
fjn026
join:2004-03-29
Lake Worth, FL
| Single point of failure? The only thing that I would say to go against it would be that it reduces every thing to a single point of failure - especially if phone service is integrated into the mix like they're talking about doing. Here in South Florida, we've renamed the power company to Florida Flicker & Flash rather than FP&L, simply because the power goes out so often. Another issue would be with situations such as a hurricane. We were out 10 days after Frances, then 5 additional after Jeanne. I still don't know how long they were out after Ivan or Charley. That's a long time to go without being able to contact your family. | |
|
| 
rob_in_chatt
Premium
join:2004-09-17
Chattanooga, TN | Re: Single point of failure? move the hell out of fla then | |
|
|
sflorida
@sprint-hsd.net | 10 days we were out. 2-3 mile from the eye of Charley and 120 mph winds at my house. still on a temp line. | |
|
Go_Offline
join:2001-10-12
Surprise, AZ
| The proof is in the puddin' Seems like a viable alternative.
I hate to say it, but from a business perspective this could mean a whole new market for AOL to invade.
Anyone have any insight/references on more technical considerations?
--
Godspeed. | |
|
ceocio
join:2004-04-16
Columbus, OH
| yeah right, it's just another study... while I don't have the full report, It seems to me that their conclusions are based somewhat questionable assumptions.
-- "At $29.95 per month—below typical prices for internet access via cable or DSL—only 9 percent were still very interested"
Says who typical DSL price will stay this high? And says who BPL will be priced at this point? BPL might be priced at $15 or even 5. The real question is whehter BPL can have cost advantage over others, a critical question that can't be answered by surveying potential customers! The study is good to estimate the willingness to pay but is no good in determining the real competitiveness of BPL.
---"they would be even more interested if their utility offered BPL in partnership with a major internet provider.”
Yeah ISPs must be happy to hear that. I am not sure how they reached this conclusion, but it all depends on how you frame the question..I am sure they would have got a totally different response if people are made aware that partnering with major ISPs could mean higher bills...Will they still be MORE interested?
well, a study is just a study, you can debate on and on for days for their methodology and validity...but still can't resisit to point out a few of the obvious.. | |
|
| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: yeah right, it's just another study... said by ceocio :And says who BPL will be priced at this point? BPL might be priced at $15 or even 5. No way BPL would be $15 or less. Unless this was complete barebones connection (no email, no webspace, etc.), I wouldn't expect it to be less than DSL. Even if it were $15 for barebones, imagine paying another $15 for AOL BYOB. Back up to $30 and less of a value. | |
|
| | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: yeah right, it's just another study... who actually uses their webspace though? and how many people use their ISP's email servers? thats the question. but why use those when you can get a GMail Address? and $15 for access anywhere with a power outlet is a really good deal. | |
|
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: yeah right, it's just another study... First off, I use my email accounts. Gmail doesn't appeal to me in the least. Second, I use my webspace for hosting pics (unlike other "free" services that limit linking.)
If it could be sold for $15 barebones, others would do it. $15 is a pie in the sky idea that won't happen. | |
|
| | | | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
 ·Time Warner VOIP
 ·1and1
| Re: yeah right, it's just another study... well thats just you using yours. i'm talking about everyone that gets it offered to them.
there are lots of free services that offer picture hosting no ads or nothing.
and actually BPL from ISPs that are offering now isnt badly priced its well below DSL and Cable both. especially check CG&E | |
|
| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: yeah right, it's just another study... said by hottboiinnc :and actually BPL from ISPs that are offering now isnt badly priced its well below DSL and Cable both. especially check CG&E Link? | |
|
| | | | | | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: yeah right, it's just another study... Current.net or something like that offers it. Its not really published.
CG&E also goes by another name. | |
|
| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Let's see:
speed to 1Mbps = $29.95
speed to 2Mbps = $34.95
speed to 3Mpbs = $39.95
3Mbps + static IP = $49.95
Looks like DSL pricing to me.  | |
|
COmon timeWARner
@aol.com | Maybe NO, if AOL has anything to do with it and doesnt give me a reason to change my cable meaning if the speeds are like 3dl/1up i would rip the cable off the walls and go cordless. | |
|
|
TACFogHorn
join:2004-07-28
Clayton, NC
| At least they are trying... Yep. I'd probably buy it... I live away from the core Cable and DLS focus, so no doubt I'd want it. It would beat the only option available to me (directway). From my perspective, they are at least trying where the cable and phone co. don't want to spend anything on the outlying infrastructure. | |
|
| RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: At least they are trying... said by TACFogHorn :Yep. I'd probably buy it... I live away from the core Cable and DLS focus, so no doubt I'd want it. It would beat the only option available to me (directway). From my perspective, they are at least trying where the cable and phone co. don't want to spend anything on the outlying infrastructure. I would almost bet that a RDSLAM or a major cable rework would appear in your area about the time they started modifying the power lines to pass the signal down toward your house (assuming your lines can handle it).
Qwest put a RDSLAM into our area when the cable company started redoing the local plant for cable internet. Before that they had no plans officially for my area.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
|
Mr Anon
@sbcglobal.net
| What would we be paying for. I quickly skimmed the article and I didn't find a reference to the hypothetical Service's speed. 30 bucks a month for... what? Now if it was 30 bucks a month for Symentrical serivce even 1.5 I'd do it, even if the pings are hich, I'd probably run web services off of it, but for 768 or less I'd pass. A-symetrical services it would have to be at least 3.0/384 or better.
As one poster put it why do you believe BPL is the answer when you are out of reach of DSL and cable, I believe it can be because of the lack of reporting the speed and distance limitations in actual implimitation not just studies.
Eh I guess I'm just glad I live in a very well connected area (although not as good as Japan [grumble grumble]) | |
|
|
See 6 replies to this post |
|
PlagueX1
Plague
join:2004-08-27
Twining, MI
|  Yes
Also tho, if DSL came in my area I would buy that instead. | |
|
envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA
| BPL=ok , IF.... I think BPL is a good idea, though somewhat late to the game. Not everyone needs a telco line or a cable line, but almost everyone needs power. But before it can be utilized effectively and enmass it needs it's problems resolved (reliability/downtime, latency, speed, RF noise galore, line upgrade efficiency), otherwise they're just throwing stacks of thousand-dollar bills into a furnace.
Funny thing tho, if one can get high bandwidth thru PL it would effectively phase out telcos and cablecos, atleast on the grand scale that they're at now. | |
|
| rollobancher
join:2003-04-11
Salinas, CA
| Re: BPL=ok , IF.... I would get it.
It is the only broadband that i can get. I would pay $30 a month in a heartbeat. I pay $10 ISP and $10 for 2nd phone line just for 56k! Ripoff !!!!! I would be thrilled if a BPL came to my town then i could finally have BROADBAND. | |
|
MoJoe16
join:2004-09-17
Joplin, MO
| I'ld tap it if I could. I say BPL is a waste of money and time.
The money and time should be spent running Fiber To The Premise! I want fiber, who wouldn't. I'ld tap BPL if I could get it here, but I woudn't be able to.
IDSL is all I can do out in the sticks (heh, well, thats 2 miles out of a town with lots of broadband options. grr). | |
|
keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
edit:
November 3rd, @06:35PM
| Existing Providers Do Not Want Competition Existing high speed providers do not want more competition.
So Platts/McGraw-Hill has come up with a study to sell existing high speed providers for quoting in their anti-BPL campaigns.
Pure and simple.
Nobody knows the potential of BPL, it is too new. Nobody knows what it will cost, what its ping times will be, etc. in 3 to 4 years. That is all open for engineers to optimize.
Look at this years speed upgrades in DSL: After all these years in use, they find a way we can go 2-3 times as fast as they had been telling us was possible. If there can be break-throughs in technology deployed for over 8 years, there can certainly be break-throughs in technology that is still under development.
More competition is good for consumers. It gives us a place to go if we want to walk away from our current ISP (or if we want to threaten to walk away).
Competition will make ISPs more responsive to consumers desires. | |
|
| 
me1234
join:2003-10-15
| Re: Existing Providers Do Not Want Competition well this is what i get from my isp for 90 bucks a month...anything besideds sat. for internet service is more than welcome. really hope something comes around my kneck of the woods
--
Satmex5 1270.0MHz|XP Home SP2|DW6000 pro|linksys router 8 port|netgear 4 port hub|768 ram 1.8ghz| | |
|
| |
me1234
join:2003-10-15 | Re: Existing Providers Do Not Want Competition P.S. my downloads just failed. after about 6 min of downloading | |
|
canders
join:2004-11-04
Mobile, AL
| Absolutely Some of your responders have obviously not read the technical aspects of BPL. Add to your question the statement that BPL can operate at about 4X the speed of cable modems and watch the responses change. I can not believe any customer would not consider a method that provides 4X speed at about the same price. Through in that now every plug in your house is a potential access point and what is left to be decided? | |
|
|
wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: Absolutely Divide that bandwidth by the total number of customers on a circuit. 2 people, and your 4x faster than cable is suddenly 2x faster. 4 Customers - it's just as fast. 8 customers....half as fast....
Do a little reading yourself and see how BPL addresses multiple users on it's network topography.  As it loads up, speeds decrease, noise and spectrum pollution increases - collisions go way up and network efficiency drops. A rough, educated guess on just how fast this technology would work at full saturation is at about 3mb/sec before serious network degradation begins to occur. How many people in a circuit will it take to hit that 3mb/sec limit? Nobody knows - the trials are not that wide in customer base nor deployment areas to answer that question just yet. I wonder why?
Go read, ponder, ask yourself a few questions and then research the problems again on your own. Everything I can see that BPL offers is seriously flawed when compared t it's overall costs, requirements, and technology base. You'd get better performance out of a pair of plasti-dip coated coat-hangers twisted together.
--
Nothwest Arkansas' ONLY all Techno Radio Webcast, powered by SBC DSL! | |
|
| | 
felix_j
K I 4 I L U
Premium
join:2004-08-24
Harrisonburg, VA
·Comcast
| Re: Absolutely said by wolfox :You'd get better performance out of a pair of plasti-dip coated coat-hangers twisted together. Hmm, I wonder how much people would pay for that...?
*prepares business plan* | |
|
eternal-
@pnc.edu | bpl power surge accusations. Everyone is going on about how we will take greater risks of massive electrical surges. How is it any more of a risk if I have bpl than it is if I don't?
I live in the sticks, I am all for anything better than the dial up I am using now. | |
|
| lonewulf44
join:2004-06-14
Springville, IN
| Re: bpl power surge accusations. "I live in the sticks, I am all for anything better than the dial up I am using now."
Oh I can't state how much I agree with you. 19.6 kps connection gives me ulcers from the frustration. The accusations of interference are blown up to make BPL seem like it’s going to cause some kind of meltdown of our emergency personnel radios. If this was the case, or even the likely hood of, I really don’t think the FCC would put their blessing on it. I can understand an amateur radio user’s concern, but the use, demand, and outright worth of connecting the country’s rural communities via Broadband simply outweighs any argument against it. Go BPL and any other Broadband technology that reaches out to everyone! | |
|
|
|
|
Would You Buy BPL?
