 joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
1 edit | Link please? Can we get a link to the original thread? Thanks.
Edit nevermind - either it popped up or I'm blind. Sorry. | |
|  | nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA | VOIP Service (Telephone service) Have you ever see a Telephone service company that don't have their TELEPHONE number where people can call? How confident can you feel getting your telephone service from a company like that? | |
| | | 
aVoipuser
@aol.com | Re: VOIP Service (Telephone service) Get a Life.......I am glad you got caught.
I hope they hand your calling log over to the FBI, I am sure they would like to know who you are calling. | |
| |
VoipGuy2
@myacc.net
|  Re: Link please?
Why doesn't that guy that states he was ripped off show everyone on this and every other forum his Detailed Call Reports????
What does he have to hide? Maybe excessive and abusive usage?, maybe a calling business out of his house?
Show us.....
Once we have seen them, then let us decide?
Until tel, I think you are just blowing a lot of smoke.
Show us, or move on. | |
| 
cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI | rip off!! Read the story earlier. The person is getting robbed!! | |
| | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs: | Re: rip off!! They could always complain to their State regulatory agency. | |
| | |
gotwhathedeserved
@attbi.com
| Re: rip off!! The guy got what he deserved. It's pretty clear he figured he'd grab the service and try to bone the VOIP provider by making tons of calls he wouldn't normally make then cancel with no intention of ever paying them. This sort of entitlement complex in America needs to stop, and hopefully having to shell out half a grand will help this guy's attitude a little bit. | |
| | | | 
SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Re: rip off!! Maybe so, but the TOS also said they would charge for local calls as well. I can understand if there were tons of international calls and such, but local calls too? Even nationwide long distance for that matter. | |
| | | | 
devil24
Premium
join:2002-06-28
Houston, TX
2 edits | Not necessarily.
Some VoIP providers include a clause in their TOS that specify that only a certain amount of free minutes are included and covered during the trial period and if you exceed that amount, then you're responsible for the extra charges. Now, after reading VOIP2's TOS, they do not mention this at all, so I guess they are misleading their customers by not clarifying this.
To substantiate my post, check these two examples.
Packet8
TRIAL PERIOD. 8x8 offers a thirty (30) day trial period ("Trial Period") to new End Users for their first Packet8 account. The Trial Period commences upon the purchase of Services by End User on the Packet8 web site or purchase of Equipment from a retailer. If End User is not satisfied with the Services during the Trial Period, End User may obtain a refund of the Equipment cost, activation fee and monthly service fee. Shipping charges and any federal excise and sales and use taxes are not refundable. To obtain a refund, End User must: a) Notify 8x8 within thirty (30) days of purchase of the Services on the web site and obtain a return material authorization number from 8x8 for the Equipment, b) Return the Equipment to 8x8 within seven (7) days of cancellation of the Services, and c) Return the Equipment in its original, unaltered condition with all packaging intact. The trial period refund shall not apply to End Users that have trial period usage in excess of Three Hundred (300) minutes. Disconnection fees shall not apply if End User cancels service during the Trial Period. Retail Customers will be required to return the Equipment to the place of purchase within thirty (30) days of purchase to receive any refund.
Broadvoice
4.7 Money Back Guarantee
BroadVoice offers a 30-day money back guarantee, applicable to one primary line per account, not additional or secondary lines. Under terms of the Money-Back Guarantee, BroadVoice refunds the activation fee, first month of service, shipping charges and waives the disconnect fee. BroadVoice reserves the right to terminate or revoke the Money-Back Guarantee at any time, without prior notice.
User must cancel service within 30 days of the account activation. Equipment must be returned within 14 days. Usage must not exceed 500 minutes within the first 30 days of service. User is responsible for any charges for overusage, international traffic or directory assistance. Accounts exceeding 500 minutes of usage are not eligible for refund.
An example of this is nowhere to be found in VOIP2's TOS.
They only talk about refunding charges inherent to their CALLBOX and nothing else.
It's quite clear to me that they are just trying to rip off their customers with such a practice and although the guy in this story has a good amount of responsibility for accepting such terms, VOIP2 shouldn't be able to get away with it that easy. | |
| | | | 
WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| Obviously you haven't been frequenting the VoIP forum, or you'd know that the comments about VoIP2 have been predominantly negative. Basically, they advertised unlimited worldwide service and when people questioned how they could do that (given the high termination costs to some countries), Chip Greenberg assured people that it was indeed an unlimited worldwide plan. Well, I don't think they were up for even a full month before they started shutting off people's accounts for what they termed excessive usage (generally to high cost countries such as VietNam, but remember, people had raised this very issue and Mr. Greenburg had assured them that the service was truly unlimited).
I am not a lawyer but from what I've read in the VoIP forum, and in my personal opinion only, it sure sounds to me like this company was downright fraudulent in the way they advertised and promoted their company. Now, when people who signed up thinking they were going to get truly unlimited service are understandably unhappy and want to cancel, they pull a stunt like this.
I wouldn't dream of telling anyone else what to do (though I have been known to make suggestions)  , but personally I would never, ever do business with this company under any circumstances. They couldn't possibly have made a worse first impression! | |
| | | | |
You Call
@aol.com
| Re: rip off!! why don't you call voip2?
I have,and their story is a different then what this forum is saying.
Call.....954-491-5488.........as you are a dominant person here, give them a chance to explain their side as I have.
Get both sides of the story before you decide. | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Re: rip off!! Since you already called why don't you give us the run down on their side of the story? | |
| | | |
Not true
@excel.com | Voip2 is the once who shut all of us off.... and forcing us to cancel. | |
| | | | nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA
1 edit | said by gotwhathedeserved:
The guy got what he deserved. It's pretty clear he figured he'd grab the service and try to bone the VOIP provider by making tons of calls he wouldn't normally make then cancel with no intention of ever paying them. This sort of entitlement complex in America needs to stop, and hopefully having to shell out half a grand will help this guy's attitude a little bit.
Are you working for VOIP2.NET? Because your post sound exactly that kind of people try to defense themselve but wish not to show. And yet a company just DON'T change their TOS over nite and begin charging people for violating the new TOS without notifying users first, even your TOS claim that you reserve right to change TOS anytime without warning, but not to try to fix a problem that you get yourself into in the first place (In this case is offering UNLIMITED service) | |
| |
VoipGuy2
@myacc.net
| Let him produce his call reports.....!
Then decide, Remember we live in the US, Innocent until prover Guilty....
You have condemned VoIP2 without seeing the evidence.
Show me.
His calling records are easily obtained, let him produce them and if they show he was screwed, I will pay the $500 bucks.
That is my challenge! Produce......! | |
| rapidrick
join:1999-10-28
Bear, DE
| Robbery Regardless of what the TOS says. It is a ripoff. Companies make the TOS multiple pages long, in a tiny font, making it almost impossible to read. We won't even go into the wording, that your average consumer may have trouble understanding.
Reminds my of the new car ads on the radio, where they speak 500 words per minute very softly, about all the exclusions. Especially when finally the ad plays, the volume is overly load to the point of making you jump!
I believe the gov requires them to state exclusions, so they do. Just NOT so that anyone can actually hear or understand them. | |
| 
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | pay by Credit always i had similar experience, but i used credit, and disputed all of it. Never pay by check, or direct debit from checking.
--
Go back to HS, just start a political discussion. It will be just like you were a kid! | |
| | 
EL_TB
join:2003-05-03
Fairfax, VA | Re: pay by Credit always Just do what my mom did with Sprint. Dont pay. | |
| | | 
DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC
 ·Suddenlink
| Re: pay by Credit always said by EL_TB  :Just do what my mom did with Sprint. Dont pay. Isn't she the neighbor lady always asking to use our phone?:D
--
Strappin’ the ol’ yowza-pow milk truck to grampappy’s riverside wikka-wokka. | |
| |
innocent people
@excel.com | Seems like voip2 has a script which they read to the bank and the bank wins | |
| 
Voyager2K2
join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA | Here's the Message. Don't do business with VOIP2.
I wonder what other surprises they have in store for their customers?
Well I won't be finding out.  | |
|
dumbpeople
@mfi.net
| trial period, I TRIAL period is just that. If you use it as more then a trial, a few calls here and there then you should be obligated to pay the excessive use fees you occurred. Making so many calls means the service was just fine. Too many people try to scam businesses in this manner.
As to disputing the charges, yes you can, but that is fraudulent in itself since you agreed to the contract and you are only are suppose to dispute fees that you did not authorize or if a company truly did not deliver what they offered in their contract and you swear to it in writing.
I see no reason to blame the company, and calling them a scam because you don’t agree with their posted policies is just ignorant. I hope they sue you for libel. | |
| | 
Black Mammot
Enjoy The Ride
join:2000-06-12
Lovettsville, VA
| Re: trial period, said by dumbpeople:
As to disputing the charges, yes you can, but that is fraudulent in itself since you agreed to the contract and you are only are suppose to dispute fees that you did not authorize or if a company truly did not deliver what they offered in their contract and you swear to it in writing.
I suggest that you read the fine print in your credit card agreement.
--
I am a Software Engineer for hire or contract. Please Instant Message me for details. | |
| |
innocent people
@excel.com
| I cannot agree to this. The reason people had to cancel the service was because voip2 shut them down.
I read this anology some where in the fourm
Let us say att comes up with a wireless plan saying 600 minutes for 39.99 . So you pay 39.99 + tax and the cost of the phone say 100 is usd .Also let us assume TOS says that if you cancel you have to pay for the minutes used 40 cents a minute
SO now you invested about 150 usd
when they find out that this is not viable for them , they cut off every body and come up with a new plan , saying it is 99.99 for 600 minutes.
Who is to blame for you cancelling the service
So naturally you will call them up to cancel...and ... imagine what happens | |
| | dfinn6230
join:2004-09-19
Cary, NC | You have a point, but, $500.00? | |
| 
Denjin
join:2001-01-18
Schaumburg, IL
|  Read the original threads!
And, putting things in a TOS doesn't explicitely make them legal.
--
Ningen wa, ningen da. | |
| | electric_dsl
join:2004-07-20
Pickering, ON
| Re: Read the original threads! First off he was told he had unlimited calling.
I think he even sent an email saying can I call vietnam unlimited? The president guys daid he could no problems.
They cut him off after two weeks, then charge him a months usage of 49.00$.
He didn't want to continue because the service was crap so he cancelled. At that point they billed him the 500$.
So as far as I am concerned the President openly LIED to get the business then the cut him off early and still charged him.
VOIP2 is clearly in the wrong. | |
| 
zphattman1
join:2002-03-10
San Francisco, CA
| The original offer???very misleading....VOiP2 SmallWorld offers flat rate residential calling world wide! *
This is a Residential Plan only, and is not for Business use. The restrictions are gauged on a caller threshold, which means they are the average of calling times based on a per customer basis. We look at daily reports on individual usage, if these thresholds are exceeded you will be notified.
*Certain restrictions apply.
Currently India , Pakistan and Vietnam are not included in our SmallWorld flat rate. These countries are offered at our industry leading¹ per minute rates.
India : $.16 per minute
Pakistan : $.24 per minute
Vietnam : $.35 per minute
¹Compared to Vonage, Packet 8 and AT&T CallVantage
sign up for our annual plan and save another 10%!!
------------------------------------------------------------
As it states in there promotion Vietnam is (not included)
i have been looking at voip providers for some time.i have a t3 connection on comcast.residential service.it is very very very (unclear)as to how they word there rates?it states on a per customer basis?based on there calling thresh holds?thats the same as not knowing your limets on your broadband usage.
if he had read further he may of seen this.(RDU)I know he had emails with the vice president.Appearently there own vice president dosent know there current offers are.The only violation i can see is they did not notify the customer before cancelling his service.This is one comp i dont think id do buis with in any event?I cant see anything really wrong here.
It plainly states Vietnam is not in the plan.
Like it says read the fine print.
Zphattman1 | |
| | 
roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: The original offer???very misleading....VOiP2 said by zphattman1 :It plainly states Vietnam is not in the plan. Like it says read the fine print. Zphattman1 VoIP2 changed the rules on people mid-stream...
they first advertised the unlimited worldwide plan as having NO restrictions
then
they started turning people off for "excessive usage" (in some cases as little as 200 minutes)
then
they removed those three frequently called countries from the "unlimited world" plan to stem the flow of red ink
-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend
No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ | |
| | | nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA
4 edits | Re: The original offer???very misleading....VOiP2 The bottome line to this is, VOIP2 been doing some sh*t that does upset alots of users, other wise they would just stand up and defense themselve, I don't see that many posts bad mouthing Voip providers like Packet8.net, vonage.net or lingo.com and so on! There is an old saying "Without Fire, there is no smoke" There has something going on with the way Voip2.net service, I just read the TOS from their website (voip2.net) it kindda sketchy don't you think? Take this for an example
Residential Plans
If you are an VoIP2 unlimited Residential Plan Customer, services are provided for normal personal use and may not be used for any business related purpose. This includes home office, network marketing, telephone sales, telemarketing, automatic dialing or any other use deemed by VoIP2 to be non residential. The service may not be used by others for payment or by any other person for commercial use. * If usage patterns are outside or in excess of what Provider deems to be normal residential use, Provider reserves the right to immediately terminate service, upgrade the service to a Business plan or revert Service to a plan based on usage charging.
This is where they suppose to tell customers when they change their TOS, they either suppose to let them know or NOT! You don't just automatically upgrade some one from $19.00 to a $49.99 without notifying them! And I don't see anywhere they mention that they will AUTO upgrade without notifying customer? Do you? I bet if user useless minutes,or service than the one he signed up, DO they going to auto convert him to a lower one to save money? NO! (This I can understand, the nature of business to make money)
Some one take a screenshot of the VOIP2.NET's TOS when you sign up, date it the date you take it and compare it later and see what going on. Come on VOIP2.NET, you know if you keep going like this, you know where you will end up.
Satisfaction Guarantee
Service may be cancelled within thirty (30) days of the original Service activation date. Upon receipt of the freight paid CALLBOX is good working condition, Customer will receive a full credit for any payments made less the charges for completed calls at $0.03 per minute for United States calls related to an Unlimited plan and the actual billed charge for International calls.
Oh Please get real, not like your company is the only one with this type of service, and your service isn't any greater than other. Flow with the market...
And yet voip2.net don't even have a phone number for their support line, how convincing is that for some one to sign up for service without a phone number to call???
NOTE: In the subject line of the email window that opens, type your VoIP2 telephone number in the subject line. In the email, please include all the information listed below. We will reply with a call or by email with the information you need. Feel free to let us know whether you prefer to be contacted by email or phone (and the best number and time to reach you).
Which phone do you gonna call us from? Payphone down the hall? And yet, voip2.net should take the picture of the lady with the headset from their website down since that doesn't apply here. (Actually I found the number buried on the website, so at least they have a number?) | |
| | 
voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH
 ·callwithus
·Axvoice
|  Chuck said 'No fine print, (no TOS)
I'm glad I did. Chip was claimming unlimited world wide calls to any phone, then he claims that some user made a 12 hour call to Veitnam, so they started freezing accounts 2 weeks through the plan.
They made several simple statements on BBR stating that even cell phones at any destination in the world were included in their world plan. This didn't makes sense to me.
I don't expect them to have the same CC bank by the end of the week.
They made a collosal addition mistake, and even thou Chip said he had many years in the business, they did have the right to cancel the plan, but the owe everbody a full refund.
Copied from a post:
cgreenberg
Member
2004-09-16
Loc:Weed, NM
reply to claudeo
Re: [Other Providers] VoIP2 ??
"It has been brought to my attention we were being discussed on this forum, so I thought I'd post a reply.
Unlike many of our competitors, VoIP2's management has a strong telephony background. We have quite a bit of experience building least cost routes and managing networks. One of the reasons a plan like this is available today is there are so few expensive termination countries left. In my fifteen years of telecom I have never seen an INMARSAT minute cross the network of any of the companies I worked for! Our SmallWorld plan does indeed have no per minute costs. Forum users can not find the fine print because there isn't any. Period.
We've designed our product to be accessible to the average user. However, advanced users can configure there own CallBox and use there own router.
BTW, I've had very good results with FatCow and have used them to host sites for other companies I worked at in the past.
As some of you know I do answer my emails personally. Pls. feel free to email any questions you may have about our service."
Chip Greenberg
Vice President of Business Development
VoIP2, Inc.
The thread for this:
»[Other Providers] VoIP2 ??
Threads of interest:
»[VOIP2] List of Free Countries
»Re: VoIP2 Alternative ...... Check It Out | |
| |
See 9 replies to this post | |
batequeixo1
join:2004-11-23
Hollywood, FL
| Glophone is almost a scam Just wanted to warn everyone that the Glophone is very close to be the biggest scam around. If you can get in with your credit card and create an account and still cannot utilize your service, be prepared to wait over 60 days for your refund, if yo qualify for one.
Software has way too many bugs and the guys at the Help Desk try hard, but are unable to help much. They explained they lack the tools to work with, even after 24 months of the product being out in the market.
Definetely do not recommend. Wait at least another 6 months before jumping in. | |
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Read Your Fine Print
Chuck said 'No fine Print'