 
mrchris
America the pitiful
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Still It's still garbage and we don't want it on our computers, WhenU! | |
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sivran
God Save The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs: | Re: Still mod this man up... | |
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Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
| Re: Still said by sivran  :mod this man up... Sorry, this is BBR, not Slashdot. Although, I can understand how you'd get confused. The distinction between the sites is blurring...
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I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap. | |
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reaver221
join:2003-05-08
Cincinnati, OH
edit:
October 29th, @06:05PM
| Re: Still said by Jeremy341 : said by sivran :mod this man up... Sorry, this is BBR, not Slashdot. Although, I can understand how you'd get confused. The distinction between the sites is blurring... It can't be ... our IT stories aren't blinding. | |
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Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost | Re: Still Well, aside from the crappy color schemes. | |
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Happyrat
Google Is Your Best Friend
Premium
join:2002-07-01
Disneyland
 ·Look Communications
| I can't wait! I simply cannot wait until DSLR/BBR has it's own "Slashdot Effect" rendering puny sites insensible with unintentional DOS attacks 
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Subtlety is wasted on the dense... »www.fuzzyrat.com | |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs: | Mod parent Your parents need modding | |
| | Hosebag
join:2002-12-25
Idaho Falls, ID | Re: Still As far as I am concerned it is no different from a virus, when it goes in behind your back without your knowledge or permission. | |
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dadkins
Go For It
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| Same as some apps (No names) Some applications, that shall remain nameless, are practicing the same avoidance. Crapware is crapware, period! The thing that get's me, most anti-ad/spyware programs are no longer detecting and removing these "problem" apps. Who paid whom how much?
Adware, spyware... don't want either one on my system! I don't care who makes it!
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Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out. | |
| | ariez
join:2004-01-09
00000
edit:
October 29th, @04:58PM
| Re: Same as some apps said by dadkins : The thing that get's me, most anti-ad/spyware programs are no longer detecting and removing these "problem" apps. can you elaborate on which programs no longer detect/remove | |
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felix_j
Premium
join:2004-08-24
Harrisonburg, VA
·Comcast
| Re: Same as some apps Using default settings, Spybot S&D 1.3 is set to ignore New.net, MySearch, and SideStep, though you can uncheck the ignore boxes for them. I forget the exact reasoning behind it, but it was something rather stupid like a change in classification [rolls eyes] | |
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dadkins
Go For It
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: Same as some apps Agreed! | |
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BM Fan
join:2004-08-20
| It's Adware, Not Spyware! I like adware, it provides useful function. it delivers targeted ads ( things i'm interested in) I can't count the amount of time i have saved,browsing the web looking for a certain product when the ads are delivered right to me. what a time saver
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"Well, I lost my virginity in a car. But it wasn't a very nice one."" -Brittany Murphy | |
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wapu
Broadband Ranger
Premium
join:2001-09-05
Germantown, MD
clubs:
| Re: It's Adware, Not Spyware! said by BM Fan : I like adware, it provides useful function. it delivers targeted ads ( things i'm interested in) I can't count the amount of time i have saved,browsing the web looking for a certain product when the ads are delivered right to me. what a time saver Even if no-one else will, I get your sarcasm.;)
Let's all start calling it crapware. BBR is big enough to start a trend.
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Let's Just PLay! | |
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clowny
Premium
join:2003-09-09
Crystal Lake, IL
clubs:
| Re: It's Adware, Not Spyware! said by wapu : said by BM Fan :Let's all start calling it crapware. Yes!  | |
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waldoooo
join:2001-12-15
Fountain Valley, CA | I agree these things need better definition, and BBR might be large enough to start a trend with the name calling but crapware shouldn't be it, I just dont see congress voting anytime soon on something called crapware. | |
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Sysadmin
NoBama
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-07
Sacramento, CA
edit:
October 29th, @04:57PM
| Which "adware" company do you work for?
Edit: If you are being sarcastic, please accept my apologies. | |
| | goalieskates
join:2004-09-12
Knoxville, TN
·Knology
·Comcast
| said by BM Fan : I like adware, it provides useful function. it delivers targeted ads ( things i'm interested in) I can't count the amount of time i have saved,browsing the web looking for a certain product when the ads are delivered right to me. what a time saver A rose by any other name ... If you are really dumb enough to click on adware, you deserve what you get (a slow computer if not a dead one). You should have to sign up for that junk if you want it, and leave the rest of us in peace. | |
| | nguyen27
join:2003-05-14
Quincy, MA
| said by BM Fan : I like adware, it provides useful function. it delivers targeted ads ( things i'm interested in) I can't count the amount of time i have saved,browsing the web looking for a certain product when the ads are delivered right to me. what a time saver Oh Please, last I checked on one of my user PC and it took me about 4 hrs to clean it up (I was about to wipe everything out) It delievered bunch of crap, and yet, your PC will be crawling no matter you running P2 or dual P4 processors or how much RAM you have. | |
| claco
join:2002-09-29
Tallmadge, OH | Sneaky Sneakersons Anytime "Adware" changes, moves, downloads, hide, or renames files so I can't remove it, it's a flipping Virus. Not Adware. Not Spyware.
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Six of one, 1,426/2,852 dozen of the other. | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
edit:
October 29th, @08:02PM
| Re: I do not like the word adware There is good adware and bad adware.
Same deal with adobe acrobat reader, real time player (free version), opera (free version). These things are all paid for by advertising.
How do you think this web site is paid for? I strongly suspect it is advertising and *maybe also* click-throughs. | |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
·Cruzio Internet
edit:
October 29th, @10:22PM
| Re: I do not like the word adware said by keith2468 :There is good adware and bad adware. Same deal with adobe acrobat reader, real time player (free version), opera (free version). These things are all paid for by advertising. How do you think this web site is paid for? I strongly suspect it is advertising and *maybe also* click-throughs. This is BS. Adware/malware lowers my quality of life by wasting my time. | |
| jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Clear defenition How is this for a clear definition of spyware?
Any software that installs itself without knowledge of the end user or that does not have a way to not install it (regardless if it is mentioned in the EULA or not). Also if it does not have a way to clearly uninstall it from the computer after the master program is uninstalled. | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Re: Clear defenition quote:
Also if it does not have a way to clearly uninstall it from the computer after the master program is uninstalled.
I'm not sure what that means.
I don't think we can expect vendors of things like QuickTime and Adobe Acrobat Reader to write them so that Ad-aware, Spybot S&D, CWShredder, Giant, and 57 other spyware removal products can easily remove them.
It should be sufficient that the product remove with the standard "add/remove" programs function in the control panel, and that if needlessly removed the wrong way, that a re-install and proper uninstall work.
Also I think that "spyware" needs to have a spying aspect to it. It has to be recording keystrokes or surfing habits, or sending off documents, without the computer users knowledge.
But maybe broadening the description, it should include products that install other products that don't support the advertised function of the advertised product.
A hidden search hijacker or email address harvester would not be a legitimate component for a CD ripping tool.
But ZoneAlarm installing TrueVector is okay, because that supports its advertised function. Adaptec CD drivers are another example, installed and used by the products of many other companies. A lot of products have hidden components that are written by other companies to do service functions.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
| | | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Re: Clear defenition What I ment was it needs to have a way to be removed just like any other program. You also don't have to have the spying aspect, just have the installed without the end users permission. The covers spyware, adware or any other name these morons can think of. | |
| | Pony99CA
join:2004-09-05
Hollister, CA
| said by jsouth :How is this for a clear definition of spyware? Any software that installs itself without knowledge of the end user or that does not have a way to not install it (regardless if it is mentioned in the EULA or not). Also if it does not have a way to clearly uninstall it from the computer after the master program is uninstalled. I agree with Keith. First, helper programs that install without user intervention or knowledge are fine. They should also uninstall when the main program gets uninstalled in that case.
Second, if the program isn't "spying", it's not "spyware". Adware that monitors your surfing habits to target ads better has some spying components, but spying also implies some level of secrecy. If the tracking program is disclosed, it's really just adware.
As another user said, if you can't uninstall it or it tries to hide itself, that moves into the virus category. A reasonable program should be able to be uninstalled easily. If a vendor has an agreement to ship adware with their product, removing the adware may disable the program, but some adware does disclose that, and that's reasonable.
I don't have a problem with programs using ads in general. In fact, I use Eudora 6 in Sponsored Mode, which includes some small ads in the client and an occasional nag prompt asking if you want to buy the program. I can live with that.
I do have a problem with programs that are installed without my knowledge that don't support the main program's function but are just revenue generators. I don't mind a company wanting the revenue, but at least let me know what I'm getting into before installing unnecessary (to the end user) programs. | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Re: Nothing wrong with adware if done correctly... ACDSee used to make an adware version of its product.
For a product I use for only a few days a year, I was happy with this. A few ads, in the product, and once a week (if I used it that week) it would take me to a website to see an ad.
In return for saving me $45. I was happy.
It is like BroadBandReports, Adobe Acrobat Reader, the free version of RealPlayer, the free version of web browser Opera, on-air TV. Things some consumers want to use, that are openly paid for with advertising.
We need to distinguish between these types of product that the user of the computer wants, versus products that install and operate secretly, or that resist removal, or that have hidden purposes.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
|
keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| WhenU and Claria Have a Point Software that installs without permission (blanket or specific), that contains unadvertised features that don't support the performance of the advertised application product, and/or that resists removal, is unethical to create or distribute and is probably criminal in many jurisdictions. I think we basically all agree on that.
My point is that the terminology choice some people and companies are making is confusing the general public, and is alarmist for some malware, and crying wolf with other malware.
I think an ordinary non-technical native English-speaker, would expect something called "spyware" to be capturing what is typed on the computer, including passwords, account names, SSNs, credit card numbers, or retrieving random document files off the PC and sending them off for some criminal to analyze.
A layperson should expect that something called "spyware" would create a true threat of "identity theft" or industrial espionage.
You'd expect that you'd be changing your credit care numbers, putting a credit watch on yourself, and so on.
Instead some security enthusiasts use the same term "spyware" for everything including website configuration cookies, tracking cookies, advertising sponsored graphics packages, advertising sponsored games, search hijackers, key stroke loggers, and maybe even remote access trojans.
And since most of the things in the so-called spyware category are cookies or search hijackers, hobbiests often fall into the trap of assuming that removing any kind of so-called spyware is merely a matter of removing a few files and registry entries. (I say "merely", it can be an all day task with an expert if it is CWS.) The trap is to never investigate or suggest the steps for the more serious varieties of spyware.
We need to be more specific when we talk to the general public.
We need terms that allow us to communicate with laypeople when they need to get a credit watch, contact the police, re-format the computer, etc.; and when they can just remove one or two files and registry entries and carry on.
The language that security enthusiasts are choosing is not making that distinction. It is a new evolving field. Our language needs to evolve with it.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
| | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: WhenU and Claria Have a Point Like I said just state that any software that installs without permission and has no way to not install or uninstall it. No way to wiggle around that. | |
| | Tinymouse
join:2002-12-04
Grand Prairie, TX
edit:
October 31st, @06:02PM
| Scumware gets my vote. (looks like the original topic was deleted or locked in the middle of my post or something! This was in reponse to "What should we call Spyware now?" if you want to keep this topic going)
Personally, I like the term an issue or two ago of 2600 was using, Scumware. Scumware denotes WHO gave me the software, and it limits the malware, adware, etc ... confusion. It's all scum-driven advertising. They know it's wrong, but they are "ethically flexible" enough to live with themselves.
Scumware is my vote. | |
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It's Adware, Not Spyware!
I do not like the word adware
(topic offline) Crap is crap is crap.