 
TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX
edit:
October 14th, @03:36PM
| Democracy These who want a democracy can now see how easy it can be abused. Democracy is nothing without bright heads who make the choice. If you can tell people how to vote, what kind of a choice is this? Democracy should be backed up by education. | |
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX | Re: Democracy One needs to be bright enough to see through propaganda and make HIS/HER choice.
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-- Who drank has died, who drinks will die; is he immortal who is sober? -- | |
| | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | Re: Democracy it's one thing to be bright and another thing to be uninformed. Most times, honest groups have a hard time competing against organizations that have no compunction about spreading lies and fear-mongering. | |
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX | Re: Democracy "Make no mistake, [it will fail and you will pay for it]" | |
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dg2
Premium
join:2004-01-22
Lowell, AR
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Democracy I expect, since they're not prepared to properly serve these areas themselves (not a proper business model) for them to be quiet and go away when others decide to serve them. If SBC/Megacableco/etc. can't be bothered with these areas now, they have no right to try to "reserve them for future business." | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | Re: Democracy i am surprising they havent considered WIFI or something similar. | |
| | | | briand805
join:2002-10-05
Los Osos, CA
| Sorry bud but i know college professors with IQ's that would make your eyes bulge. They are some of the brightest people Ive ever met but they don't know jack about dsl.
Having knowledge about dsl doesn't make you smart, only informed on the subject of dsl.
Believe it or not being online is low on the totem for some folks. | |
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snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL
clubs: | Democracy SHOULD be backed up by education, but sadly its more often than not, backed up by large corperations. The above story for example./.. | |
| claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA | Look at Tacoma, Washington ...for a brilliant example that completely demolishes the SBC propaganda. »Click! | |
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montee4
Premium
join:2004-02-15
Chicago, IL | I voted Yes Just submitted my absentee ballot yesterday. I voted YES for the Municipal Broadband Bill. SBC will never roll out fiber here, at least not in the near future. We just got DSL in most areas out here. | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Re: I voted Yes Thanks for the YES vote! I hope everyone understands that this will not affect anyone's taxes. The SBC flier is a lie when it suggests "taxpayers will be left to clean up the mess". Private investors will be attracted to finance the system. If there are no takers to invest then the utility won't be built.
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
| same pig, different dress Tri-cities Broadband didn't fly, and since there now is broadband in the Tri-cities they've changed their name and are now harping about getting fiber deployed instead?
I wish them luck. If their argument against the incumbents like SBC is based on that flyer, they'll need it. That qualifies as "dirty tricks"?
Why don't they just build the damn thing if they are so sure it'll work out? Why the constant referendums? Don't they have the resources to run it? If this is as great as they say it is, everyone will want in, right?
And Karl Bode  , the three cities involved are hardly "Illinois". They are IN the state but their total population is a drop in the census bucket.
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Rise and take away their lies | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress Name change? what are you talking about? Same thing as last year....Fiber For Our Future @ tricitybroadband.com
Both the flyer and full page ad came courtesy of SBC.
Ridiculous. If they don't want to build it, why should they care if the cities are willing to do so? Time to get out of the way....
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: same pig, different dress That's what I said, wasn't it? Who gives a shit what SBC and Comcast do? Just build the damn thing and prove them both wrong.
If I missed "Fiber For Our Future" last time around I apologize. You folks are hard to follow out there...
Good luck. I still don't understand why you need a referendum if tax dollars are not being spent.
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Rise and take away their lies | |
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mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: same pig, different dress said by RadioDoc :
Good luck. I still don't understand why you need a referendum if tax dollars are not being spent.
Doc, I've been trying to get that answer out of them for over a year. I'm guessing they are just as much a flim-flam as the big companies they claim to be fighting.
Anytime an activist group says, "Just vote for this...it won't cost you a penny," you best run like hell in the other direction.
mocycler
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Well, that settles it! Edison the Cat doesn't want John Kerry to be President. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress Mo:
just because you don't want to listen....you can keep asking and i'll keep answering.
we've (the two of us) been through why it has to go to referendum any number of times, but for the sake of radio I'll say it again.
It's a legal requirement for a non-home rule community to have the authority to offer:
1. cable tv
2. telephone services
Geneva fits that bill. It has nothing to do with money, but state statute that allows the city the authority, via referendum, to provide those services. That is why the questions in Geneva are bizarre. (go to »www.geneva.il.us/bb/FAQ.htm)
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| | | | | | AuroraJock
join:2003-04-02
Chicago, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress So, if I'm a private investor and I want to lay fiber in your town and sell IP and TV, I have to get on the ballot? I can't start my business unless the citizens vote for it?
Whats not being said here is that this group still ultimately relies on their government to get the ball rolling. This is what most people have the problem with. Keep the government out of private enterprise. Why don't you guys just get your investors lined up and build this network WITHOUT government intervention?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Muni broadband is fine for the small farm town type where a factory has just shut down putting 50% of the population out of work. For white-collar, rich, suburban Chicago, it's not a necessity. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress AJ:
We've been through this 10 times too.
No, you don't have to go to referendum. You want to put together your private company deal to build it? Go right ahead.
But if the cities want to offer the service, they do!
And as I've said before, if a community wants to take this on - regardless of their demographic - and votes yes to do so, who says it's wrong? The Bells or the Cable Cos?
If the citizens approve it, how is it not what the community wanted? As a citizen, you have several choices if you're opposed.
1. Don't vote for it
2. Don't use the service if the utility is created
3. Vote any politician involved in making it happen out of office.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| | | | | | | | AuroraJock
join:2003-04-02
Chicago, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress said by batageek :
AJ:
But if the cities want to offer the service, they do!
And as I've said before, if a community wants to take this on - regardless of their demographic - and votes yes to do so, who says it's wrong? The Bells or the Cable Cos?
Thats just it, the cities DON'T want to offer it. It's the citizens group that is bring it back to the ballot - not the politicians. The city governments openly admitted this was partly a scare tactic to get what they ultimately wanted... Cable modems. It worked. Now the "citizens" (i.e. Batageek and Octopussy) won't let the issue die.
Get your investors lined up and do it without the ballot, without the government. Take the "scare tactics" out of the equation. Way back when, you guys said you explored having another incumbent come in and do it, like WOW, or Time-Warner. What happened with them? You don't even need to answer - it's a bad investment to offer services and be the 4th broadband competitor so they passed. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress uhhhh and your point is what? the cities work for the citizens...not the other way around.
over 3,000 tricities residents signed petitions to bring this back to ballot.
if private investment is to back the entire build, eliminating all taxpayer risk, the what is the problem?
The citizens benefit, the cities benefit, and the private sector benefits.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| | | | | | | | | | AuroraJock
join:2003-04-02
Chicago, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress My point is that you've got 3000 signatures - great. The population is what, 70,000? If this is such a problem in your area, where are the 20,000 signatures, 50,000 signatures? Don't forget, the citizens spoke on this issue last time around - and IT WAS VOTED DOWN.
Your group claims that you have enough support to make the network work. Fine, DO IT WITHOUT YOUR GOVERNMENTS HELP. What you continually fail to address is that people don't want their government competing against private enterprise. Spin it any way you want, AMERICAN CITIZENS DON'T LIKE SOCIALISM, DON'T LIKE COMMUNISM. What your group demands crosses the line. You can come at us all day with "It'll save money", or "See, other towns have done it", but fundamentally lots of people don't want government involvement.
The fact is, no private provider is willing to build out a redundant network because theres no money to be made. You know this, so you are forcing the issue to get on the ballot again. Your group has no recourse. You have no funding lined up, you have nothing. Only the hope that if you can convince enough people to vote for it, somehow, someway you can force your government to move forward.
Tell you what, once and for all... when this thing gets voted down AGAIN, will you people please devote your energy to something more worthwhile? | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress I'm beginning to think you're just jealous....
Our governments here also provide electric to the citizens and businesses. Our rates are about 30% lower than towns served by ComEd. It directly benefits the citizens and the businesses. They've been doing it for over 100 years.
As to government involvement, you're entitled to be against it. Vote against the issue.
But who's a bigger bureacracy - the City of Batavia or SBC? The City of Geneva or Comcast?
Who's more likely to have my best interests in mind? My neighbor or Comcast? My Mayor or SBC?
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| | | | | | | | | | AuroraJock
join:2003-04-02
Chicago, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress Once again, dancing... who cares about bureacracy? Who cares about best interest? That's not the issue. Your municipal provided electricity was out of necessity. Municipal provided IP and TV is not necessity but luxury. Government has no place to provide these luxury items, period.
What am I jealous of? A fantasy network that doesn't exist? | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress you're right.
i guess we shouldn't strive for anything better than what the private sector deems us worthy of.
how could i have been so foolish. time to put away the dancing shoes and break out something sensible.
How can this be made any more clear? The new "road" of our times is the internet. Who has traditionally owned and built the roads? cities.
end.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| | | | | | | | | | AuroraJock
join:2003-04-02
Chicago, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress said by batageek :
How can this be made any more clear? The new "road" of our times is the internet. Who has traditionally owned and built the roads? cities.
end.
Exactly - the new "road" is the internet and you've already got 3 providers who serve you. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress Exactly - the new "road" is the internet and you've already got 3 providers who serve you.
with a dirt road. and a year ago it was a foot path.
i'd like mine paved and be able to drive at "highway speeds."
and if my neighbors agree, so be it.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| | | | | | | | | | AuroraJock
join:2003-04-02
Chicago, IL | Re: same pig, different dress Dirt road? Please. That's your opinion, not fact. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| Re: same pig, different dress good God....is that the best you can do?
it's not a luxury. it's the future. it's where the market is going to be going anyway.
the citizens can take control of their telco future or be fed it by the private sector.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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See 10 replies to this post | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Not all of those 70,000 are old enough to vote or registered to vote. No one has to go out and get 20,000 signatures to prove anything to you AJ. There are votes for that - and there will be one held on Nov. 2nd.
If everyone were to quit after being defeated the first time out at the ballot box then we wouldn't see the constant school referendums time after time that we see. Or we wouldn't see some candidates get elected after running in 5 elections after initially getting beat. If at first you don't succeed, try try again! Just because a referendum doesn't pass the first time around does NOT mean it was a bad idea. AND, this referendum is different than the first one.
This referendum prohibits the use of tax-backed financing to create the utility. If the cities cannot find private financing then the utility will not be built. People were concerned about their taxes going up, so the citizens fixed that problem. No tax dollars will be allowed to be used to construct the utility. But there will be local service provided - which is what the Tri-City residents want. Local accountability and local service, like with our outstanding electric and water utilities. Say what you will about them, but they have served this area well for over 100 years, and you cannot argue with that fact and what rates have been charged to our residents. They are, on average, 30% lower than ComEd. Now, if you want to pay higher rates to BIG CORP USA for the heck of it, because you can, for other services, than go right ahead. But some people would like local service with lower prices for what they consider to be essential services (voice, video, and data).
Voters will decide if they will want SBC to continue to be the monopolistic copper phone line owner and Comcast the only cable TV provider for us. I guarantee that those two telco giants are not interested in helping our towns with economic development and any possible future municipal service to our fire departments, police departments, the electric and water departments, schools, hospitals, assisted living facilities etc... etc....
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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See 18 replies to this post | |
8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA | If only.. If only these companies would spend all that money used for their propaganda campaigns on running fibre and providing the level of service they claim to have, we wouldn't be reading this story. | |
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zabes63
join:2003-04-05
Batavia, IL | Re: If only.. That's what I keep saying | |
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thongsai
join:2002-07-04
Santa Rosa, CA
| polling for subscribers.. well there are no guarantees in life. it seems they can deploy anytime they want to. they are now backed by private funding, which should define it as a business looking to profit. they are polling to get an idea of willing subscribers?
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»thongsai-roms.shorturl.com/ | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Re: polling for subscribers.. In two of the cities this is an advisory referendum. In one it is binding. One of the cities needs the people's vote to go ahead...essentially. They are non-Home Rule. Which ever cities pass this, they need to attract the private financing. It is not a given, and it hasn't been pre-determined. But the cities are prohibited from using tax-backed financing to build the utility per the referendum questions. So there is zero tax risk to the taxpayers of the Tri-Cities.
That doesn't seem to matter to SBC who is still suggesting on their flyers and in their ads that this will somehow hit the taxpayer - and that is a lie. That is not possible. If private investors are not found (who assume all risk), then the utility won't be built. Period. End of story.
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| anon2k2
join:2004-04-17
University Place, WA
| Words of encouragement Continue on with the struggle to provide municipal broadband. There are too many reasons that it make sense, and the fact that the ILEC's hate it is, in of itself, evidence that they are currently gouging the consumer.
Years ago, insightful people in our region decided that municipal ownership of electricity production and distribution would make a whole lot of sense. They were harrassed by the "free marketeers" who wanted to enslave the region with monopoly electrical provision.
Today, we pay between 4 and 7 cents per kilowatt for electricity. Compare that to your last electric bill. And in 2000-2002, while the rest of the west coast was experiencing "free market" fluctuations in electric rates induced by enron and other private companies, we were still paying 4-7 cents per kilowatt.
Fight, persevere, win. Your children and grandchildren will thank you. | |
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Illinois Battles SBC
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