 BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Interesting Would be interesting to see the code for it. Would make a hell of a replacement for say xbox live and gamespy  although it is probably for blizzard games only.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|  | SoilFlames
Premium
join:2002-03-17
Anoka, MN
clubs: | Re: Interesting there already are such things, not integrated using the xbox live code but that would be alot of work . Bnetd i used at a point in time before the retail version of wc3 came out. It worked, but it wasn't ideal. | |
|
technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA | anti-competitive behavior This falls under a monopoly, you can't make people only use your server software. That's gay | |
| | tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY | Re: anti-competitive behavior word is "proprietary" | |
| | 
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by technick  :
This falls under a monopoly, you can't make people only use your server software. That's gay
Had the developer of BNetD created his own network, I'd agree with you. The problem is he bypassed Blizzards client software and used his client on BNet. It may be monopoly, but until the creator of BNetD is willing to front the cash to build his own similar network he's SOL (and rightfully so).
--
Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
| | | SoilFlames
Premium
join:2002-03-17
Anoka, MN
clubs:
| Re: anti-competitive behavior I would say it more had reason that the only legitamate use for a different server other then battle.net would be if you had a pirated copy without a legitamate server key. Blizzard doesn't make money running the server, they make money selling the games. So if some other guy came up with a server it wouldn't really be competition, because he's not directing any revenue of any kind towards himself from blizzard, other then making it acceptable to play the pirated game online with others who have pirated the game. There would be absolutely no reason to switch from battle.net unless you weren't using a legitamate copy of the game. | |
| | | Natfly
join:2004-02-26
Fairfax, VA
| said by yock :
said by technick :
This falls under a monopoly, you can't make people only use your server software. That's gay
Had the developer of BNetD created his own network, I'd agree with you. The problem is he bypassed Blizzards client software and used his client on BNet. It may be monopoly, but until the creator of BNetD is willing to front the cash to build his own similar network he's SOL (and rightfully so).
He didn't make a client, BNetD was designed as a server to emulate battle.net so people could connect to some other third party server. The only 'software' bypassed was the CDkey check code so people could play with illegitimate copies of the game. And the Battle.net key check algorithm is unobtainable, so it was impossible for him to even add it into his program. | |
| | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: anti-competitive behavior said by yock :
That makes considerably more sense, especially given the name of the program (the "D" at the end). I still stand by my argument though. Blizzard should not have to allow a knock-off of their gaming realm, given that you have to purchase the game to play online.
The thing is that BNetD didn't interfere with Blizzard's gaming realm because its aimed at a different area. BNetD was created to be used on LANs and such when connections to the internet were not available for things like LAN parties. It really wasn't designed to compete with Blizzard.net.
--
Victory Not Vengeance
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
| | | | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: anti-competitive behavior said by bmn :
It really wasn't designed to compete with Blizzard.net.
That seems to be inescapable. People would definitely use it as a means of bypassing licensing terms.
--
Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
| | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
1 edit | Re: anti-competitive behavior said by yock :
said by bmn :
It really wasn't designed to compete with Blizzard.net.
That seems to be inescapable. People would definitely use it as a means of bypassing licensing terms.
You are correct. But those are people who have already elected to steal the software.
Truth be told, for legitimate users (I own a legal copy of all of my games), this is still a loss. Unless you know where to get it...
--
Victory Not Vengeance
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
| | | | | | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH | Re: anti-competitive behavior True, but name for me one software license that is beneficial to those of us who pay for our software. | |
| | | | | | | | | Overlord630
join:2004-10-10
Westport, KY
|  Re: anti-competitive behavior
| |
|
| | | | | | |
| Hardcore
The Cow Says
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Albany, GA
·Mediacom
| said by technick :
This falls under a monopoly, you can't make people only use your server software. That's gay
Be sure to use that "gay" arguement with Blizzard's lawyers and a judge. I'll have to have the recording of said lawyers and judge laughing you out of a courtroom.
Teenagers.
Here's the deal - it's Blizzard's property, they can say who gets in or out. If BnetD used their own property, then the courts couldn't have said a thing.
If you run a game server, you say who gets in or out, right? If you banned me from your game server, NO MATTER THE REASON, I could sue you for it, with your reasoning, and yell out "your gay" over and over again in the courtroom.
It's your server. You do with it what you want.
It's Blizzard's network. They do what they want with it.
--
How's about this - we get rid of the boobs, and the fuzzy balls? One guy posts a huge phallus, and gets banned from the site? What kind of crap is that when people have bare breasts as avatars? | |
| | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: anti-competitive behavior I am speculating here but......
If you have a PUBLIC server and ban me for a reason that is not in violation of ethics, your rules, or current law. Or if you do it to me for a reason that others are not banned for then I could probably sue and win the case.
The reasoning for that is simply that it is a PUBLIC server since there are no restrictions or requirments for entering. Kind of like McDonald's not being able to refuse service to anyone that is acting within the law. There are many laws in place preventing this kind of prejudice action.
As far as this decision goes I am not sure how I feel about it. I would agree Blizzard has every right to force a CD check if they want on the public domain (not on lans), however I disagree that they have the right to force you to play on only their network (I think). I guess my issue would be with other companies starting this. Then all of a sudden every game you have has to connect to some other network and support the game types they want. Then they start shoving advertising down your throat. Then they start charging for ad free service (sound familiar). Then they start charging for play time.
xLive I flat out disagree with. I think it is silly to have to pay to play games online. We are going full circle here. It use to be that you had to pay to play on services like TEN and DWANGO (I loved DWANGO ). Those failed as the internet became more common and now they are trying to stick it to us again.
It's amazing what corporate greed brings to the world. | |
| | | | JamesHutto
join:2004-05-09
Olar, SC
1 edit | Re: anti-competitive behavior McDonalds isnt a public business, its a privately owned establishment, therefore, its perfectly legal for them to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
I dont understand your argument on the public server. If "I" have a public server, its still "MY" server, therefore I can enforce any rules I see fit. If you use profanity, which isn't against the law, I will kick you from the server, and welcome a legal battle on those grounds.
A far as Blizzard forcing you to play on their servers. No they dont. The game has a single player mode. The only thing playing online requires is a valid cdkey. You can play on Open Battle Net, which connects you to another players "hosted" game. That again, only require an authentic cdkey, checked through bnet.
As far as Xlive goes, I assume you are talking about Xbox live. The fee you are paying monthly for xbox live, is because its their equipment you are using. You are connecting to a network that they created, and must maintain. Game companies also may charge a fee to play a game with online capabilties "online". This would be in addition to the xbox live fee.
If I read your post correctly, you want to pay $50.00 for a game, then be able to play it online free, which in turn is costing someone alot of money to maintain. Am I right ?
Cant have everything can ya ?.... | |
| | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: anti-competitive behavior I am speculating still.......
I would agree that McDonalds is privately owned, no doubt about that. However it is still a PUBLIC establishment and no they can't refuse service to anyone for any reason. If I, as a black man: homosexual: handicap: or grung skater, walk into McDonalds and they refuse me service because of such they have violated my rights. However if I enter there and violate their rules or laws they have every right to refuse me service.
The server may be yours just like the McDonalds may be but you are allowing it to be used publicly just like McDonalds. If you began "discriminating" against people you are violating the rights of these people just as they did at McDonald's. Whether it is face to face or over the internet is irrelavant. I did point out rule violations, which obviously if someone does not uphold your rules they can be freely removed. This of course is my personal opinion as I am not a lawyer so I don't have case law to support this. I am just applying logic to this. However, the law often has nothing to do with logic so I could be way off.
I don't know anything about Bnet as I don't play games that support this online. My comment was based on what someone else stated, but I think someone else cleared up how it works.
And yes I want to pay $50 for a game and play it for free online just like I can do with all Unreal Tournament versions, all Quake versions, both Soldier of Fortune versions, and Duke Nukem 3D. I could go on naming thousands of games that can be played online for FREE. Were you not aware of that fact that there are games beyond Blizzards and they can be played for (get this) FREE!!!!!!! That's right. I would be willing to bet there are over 50,000 game servers online right this second that don't charge a single dime to be played on. And I bet 95%+ of those aren't even ran by a multimillion dollar company. Pretty amazing huh?  | |
| | | | | | 
TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Riverview, FL
|  Re: anti-competitive behavior
Yeah it's free to you because you don't even consider the costs or even care to help support these servers. Some people would call that "free-loading" or "mooching".
Consider that these "free" servers not obligated to support these environments for your needs; XBOX live is. | |
| | | | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: anti-competitive behavior said by TechieZero :
Someone is PAYING for that bandwith and is PAYING for the server equipment that the game is running on. If you go out to some of the more popular web pages for these game servers---many of them are asking for a donation.
Yeah it's free to you because you don't even consider the costs or even care to help support these servers. Some people would call that "free-loading" or "mooching".
Consider that these "free" servers not obligated to support these environments for your needs; XBOX live is.
First off dumbass holier-then-thou, dont assume you know anything about me. You have no idea how much I contribute to support the web or servers I play on. And you certainly shouldn't act like you are any better then anyone else here including myself as I doubt seriously you are.
So if I have this correct.... according to you all of us should check servers we play on to see if they have a website that may be asking for donations to support their gaming habits? That is if they arent already passing the donation plate around when we enter there. We should even consider donating say $9.95 a month for playing there (even if we don't play for that month)? You know now that I think about it we should donate to every website we visit as well. Hell we should donate to every router that our packets hit and pay $.40 for every email we send. This stuff isnt free and we would hate to be classified as a "freeloader" by some god like internet user such as yourself. | |
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| | JamesHutto
join:2004-05-09
Olar, SC
| What you arent realizing is this : The only thing Blizzard is upset about it the circumvention of their cdkey check. It basically allows me to use pirated software on a different realm. I this guy was able to preserve the cdkey algorithms, which was impossible, then I seriously doubt anything would have been said.
Like someone else had posted, the program was not used ON Blizzards network, it was used instead of.... | |
|
| Overlord630
join:2004-10-10
Westport, KY
| I'm sorry to have to be a party-pooper on this one, and say very bluntly that anyone who disagrees with what I am about to say is a moron. If you look to the legal agreeement (License) attached to your Blizzard products, you will read in section 3C(iv) that (this is a direct quote) you are not to - "host or provide matchmaking services for the Program or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in the network feature of the Program" Maybe the smart boy who decided to make a third party hosting service should have wasted his unemployed time reading the obvious and unambiguous legal notice Blizzard had given him. Thank you ladies and gentlemen, that's a wrap. | |
| | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Re: anti-competitive behavior If that is a direct quote is there anything in this agreement that excludes LAN games? The way I interpret the above is that you aren't allowed to host ANY game as that would be providing a matchmaking service for the Program. | |
|
viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Hartwell, GA
·Bright House
| This was a stretch The article didn't give much information so I researched it on the net. From what I found this was a stretch at best by Blizzard. It goes so far as to show how closed minded Blizzard is.
I don't play battle.net and from what I read Blizzard don't charge to use it. I would say if a person or ISP emulated Blizzard servers and charged to play, then Blizzard has a case. If Blizzard games were created to be only played online then Blizzard has a case. I didn't see any of that happen here.
Blizzard is not providing any benefit to use battle.net other than the fact they are controlling how there product is used. Blizzard said they are trying to prevent people from using pirated software. They also said they are trying to prevent people from doing it who bought legal copies of the software.
It would be like Microsoft saying you can't use the network feature in Windows unless you go through Microsoft. It would be basically using the networking like a P2P of sorts. Most people would say that sounds ridiculous but Microsoft can do it if they want, they control the copyright.
As game companies become more closed minded, they will turn more gamers away. Gamers are a different breed, they don't like to be clamped down. I been playing an online RPG game for about 5 years now and I know how it is. | |
| | 
AuraReturn
Premium
join:2003-08-18
San Francisco, CA
clubs:
| Re: This was a stretch said by viperpa33s :
The article didn't give much information so I researched it on the net. From what I found this was a stretch at best by Blizzard. It goes so far as to show how closed minded Blizzard is.
I don't play battle.net and from what I read Blizzard don't charge to use it. I would say if a person or ISP emulated Blizzard servers and charged to play, then Blizzard has a case. If Blizzard games were created to be only played online then Blizzard has a case. I didn't see any of that happen here.
Blizzard is not providing any benefit to use battle.net other than the fact they are controlling how there product is used. Blizzard said they are trying to prevent people from using pirated software. They also said they are trying to prevent people from doing it who bought legal copies of the software.
It would be like Microsoft saying you can't use the network feature in Windows unless you go through Microsoft. It would be basically using the networking like a P2P of sorts. Most people would say that sounds ridiculous but Microsoft can do it if they want, they control the copyright.
As game companies become more closed minded, they will turn more gamers away. Gamers are a different breed, they don't like to be clamped down. I been playing an online RPG game for about 5 years now and I know how it is.
All crap. The only reason why people use BNetD is because they have a illegal copy of the game. | |
| | | 
ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
| Re: This was a stretch It seems to me that the creator of BNetD intentionally allowed the use of pirated copies of Blizzard software. I am quick to agree that copyright laws and anti-piracy techniques have long since gotten out of hand and are not getting any better. The BNetD service however, intentionally flies in the face of the copyrights of one of the few developers out there still dedicated to producing quality games with the "It's done when it's done" mentality instead of cowtowing to their publisher to release the game when it's "most profitable". | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: This was a stretch said by AuraReturn :
said by viperpa33s :
If Blizzard is so worried about people using illegal copies of there games then why don't they make all there games online games instead of single player games? This way Blizzard can make sure everyone is buying there games legally. That's 1 way to put this whole thing to rest once and for all.
Because almost every game needs a single player.
Actually, I think he might be talking about the way that Valve is now doing Half-Life with Steam. You still have single player, but the Steam system prevents piracy by connecting keys to specific users, keys that can't be reused.
--
Victory Not Vengeance
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
|
| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by AuraReturn :
All crap. The only reason why people use BNetD is because they have a illegal copy of the game.
Not entirely true... Some people used it because they had illegal copies, but it was very useful for LAN parties. Like I said in another thread, we used it at a LAN party so that we could emulate the funtionality of Battle.net since we lacked an internet connection.
--
Victory Not Vengeance
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
| | | | hskrfan23
join:2004-03-18
West Sacramento, CA | Re: This was a stretch dont most of Blizzards games have a multiplayer option so you can set up a lan? | |
| | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: This was a stretch They do, but there are some limitations that can be addressed with using Battle.net emulation.
--
Victory Not Vengeance
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
| | | | | TercelChick
join:2002-08-13
| Yes they do. The idea of using a third party server was a legitimate one back when Starcraft was out, since you could play on a spawn, which was a multiplayer load of a game hosted by someone who owned the game.
Blizzard took "spawning" out as an option in Warcraft3, and IIRC, noted in the Terms and Conditions you will not use third party servers for multiplayer. So,if you do not use Battle.net (which is currently, and has always been, free) even if you owned a legitimate copy of the game; you are pirating.
I don't have anything personally against pirates, but you have to admit the fact that Blizzard retains the right to tell you how you can play their game (and abide by their license). | |
| | | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: This was a stretch said by TercelChick :
So,if you do not use Battle.net (which is currently, and has always been, free) even if you owned a legitimate copy of the game; you are pirating.
You aren't pirating anything you are simply violating a EULA as you probably do with a lot of the software you have installed. (I personally wouldn't know, I never read them. ) Pirating is making and distributing illegal copies of the game. | |
|
| Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| All they do is prevent someone from playing online with it which they can do with a simple CD key check when getting online. This method didn't prevent me from playing this game with a copy I did not buy.
I personally do not play these type of games I am more of a FPS guy. I was just looking for a change of pace so a buddy loaned me his WC3 CD and I played it for about a week or 2. Once I was finished playing I gave him his game back.
I didn't buy, I wouldn't buy, but I had no problem playing it. Now if I enjoyed this game and was into this type thing I certainly would have bought a copy to play online as I do with all my FPS games. | |
|
st4t1c
Nihilist.
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Boulder Creek, CA | Missing the point. Blizzard waants people on battle.net so they can advertise blizzard products to them. Obviousally. | |
| |
viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Hartwell, GA
·Bright House
1 edit | Re: Missing the point. said by st4t1c :
Blizzard waants people on battle.net so they can advertise blizzard products to them. Obviousally.
They can't email you advertisements if you opt out unless they advertise in the game itself using the chat function. As I just seen, not only Blizzard can advertise but allot of other companies can advertise as well. Guess that's how they get there money to support the battle.net servers. To tell you the truth, I would rather pay than be bombarded with advertisements in game.
»www.battle.net/advertising/ | |
|
Luker3
join:2004-10-09
Blacksburg, VA
| Blizzard has free servers that should stay free Well, Blizzards main concern is priracy. They offer an excellent server for Warcarft 3, and it is free to use, which is great. To support this they need money. The money they get from selling the game, and have a advertisment banner at the top.
When it comes to sueing someone you need to make sure you will win. You need to have the best reason for sueing them you can. BNetD is a third party program, and they state all over the Terms and Conditions about them. Hint: Don't use and third party program with their products. Unless you have permission to do so, just stay away.
I agree on some of the concepts of BNetD. I don't know what they acctually added, but since it was made by a college student then I believe that he did it so that they could have a chat section on the LAN and could share the same game.
Analize this situation and you see that it really could seem ok. They are on a LAN, than is NOT using BNet servers. That means Blizzard is not losing money to people using their servers. Blizzard is losing money to people not buying the game, which is why they sued.
Blizzard didn't have a problem with BNetD as a program (if they don't have to support them on their servers, great), but that it allowed people to use a pirated game. | |
| | 
jimi419
Dadof3
join:2002-03-14
Round Lake, IL
clubs:
| Re: Blizzard has free servers that should stay free well i played diablo 2 for 2 years and had to quit cuz of all the hax in game. so piss on blizzard they dont even keep
hackers out of game, but i can only play on thier server
which even if u went to closed battle.net for d2 u see starcraft players sittin the d2 lobbys, cant get into rooms b/cuz they r full or just some bs i could go on and on with this rant about blizzard they are just another greedy part of corp. America | |
| | | SM5
join:2002-04-19
South Wayne, WI
| Re: Blizzard has free servers that should stay fre Blizzard wants people not to dupe their gaming network, then let Blizzard maintain their gaming network properly. I played bnet a LOT for about a year. And was constantly getting kicked off and disconnected and being treated like a cheater because blizzard couldn't properly maintain their hack-prevention software. I NEVER cheated at all, never used 3rd party programs, yet several times a week I was booted when there was some gliche in the connection to bnet, and made to wait 10 minutes before I could log back in because their programs were seeing the activity as hacker activity. I won't even begin to mention the issues I had with game lockups, and the time spent on the phone with them trying to solve issues that were clearly programming issues in their Mac version of Diablo 2.
Their head of tech support ADMITTED to me on the phone that the exact case above was happening. That legitimate users were caught in their insipid web of hack-scans and booted as cheaters. I was told that the Diablo 2 v1.10 update would solve ALL of this. It did not. Not to mention that NOW Blizzard has enabled several extras, Runewords, some new items etc, that are available ONLY to online bnet users and they simply REFUSE to write a new patch and release so that people can play TCP/IP games with these things included. There are instant-death bugs in the TCP/IP version, along with several other bugs that Blizzard fixed online but won't include in a single or tcp patch.
It's pathetic. Blizzard has an entire OPEN realm where people can cheat online and use any damn hack they want to. So all the arguments against allowing BnetD because it's a cheaters realm are just moot. The ONLY thing it does is not check for a CD Key. So what, there are CD-Key generators (No I never used one I own 3 legit copies) readily available online, and there are thousands of people playing with illegitimate serial numbers on bnet right now.
I quit playing on bnet, not because of hacking or cheating, but because of Blizzard's outright refusal to do anything about bugs they know exist in the game. I play single or TCP games and have much less issues. I don't know what the huge deal is with someone setting up a server similar to bnet except just what the topic is, that blizzard is afraid they will lose money on added-on advertising and match making services. Well they won't get it from me anyway, because while all the bugs remain I will just continue to host my own games for up to 8 people. So what if someone does it for a lot more people than that. | |
|
Speedy8
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
clubs: | Worthless Pretty much the dumbest thing about this is that this only hurts legitimate customers. People who warez the games will still download the emulator anyway. I don't like any of Blizzard's games myself though. | |
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