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story category Irritation-Ware
First do no harm?
(old news - 10:23AM Thursday Oct 07 2004)
tags: software
Tipped by Karl Bode See Profile
Developers are producing ever more invasive copy protection schemes (see recent story concerning Star Force "stealth" drivers) that only delay piracy for a few weeks, but cause all manner of problems on user machines. This week finds yet another instance of copy protection going over the line, requesting the uninstall of certain software, then deleting needed files on user systems.

Forum user MxxCon points us to CDFreaks, where users first noted that the game "Knights of Honor" refuses to run if it detects popular CD emulation and backup softwares Deamon-Tools and BlindWrite/CopyToDVD. The protection scheme (believed to be JoWood Xprot) asks user to disable those programs before the game is installed. Once the user complies, the game deletes critical .dll files from those programs:
As I started the game the following pop up appeared: "Conflict, please deactivate or uninstall BlindWrite/CopyToDVD Patin-Couffin driver". After I uninstalled Patin-Couffin 24 (I"m using BlindWrite 5.2.5.138) I had to unlock DAEMON.DLL otherwise the game won't start. I unlocked it and was finally able to play the game. After reboot I got this error message: "C:\Windows\daemon.dll error". After checking the directories, daemon.dll was gone.

Sunflower, the game's publisher, quickly posted a response blaming the problem on the creator's of Daemon-Tools.

Concerning your question about Knights of Honor:

Knights of Honor does not delete any DLLs.

This is caused by Daemon-Tools itself, if it is running while being unlocked.

Kind regards,
Uwe Mathon

Localisation Manager

The folks from Daemon-Tools would have none of it:

Sunflowers - statement is simple untrue. We for sure DON'T delete our own .dll

It's rather a question of good behaviour to clearly notify the users of this mistake - this chance was NOT taken by sunflowers, instead they betray their legal customers. So it's our turn now to tell you that we are in NO way involved in this.

The .dll-issue is a DIRECT result of their copy-protection. The same can for sure be said about the unusual behaviour to remove Patin-Couffin-Driver.
For sure it isn't legal to simple delete/rename foreign files - I hope no one is affected by system-crashes!

As the attention this week grew, and users began dissecting the code at work, it became apparent it was the game's protection scheme after all to blame for the deletions. Sunflower was then forced to admit their error claiming it was a random bug that just happened to target Daemon Tools:

By starting Knights of Honor the copy protection checks for CD-emulation-programs such as "Daemon-Tools".
Due to a bug in the checker-routine the file "daemon.dll" is renamed to "daemon.bak", if it has been locked by the user, which it is not by default.
This is a known issue and will be fixed in the upcoming patch. To have "Daemon-Tools" working agin, the file "daemon.bak" has to be renamed back to "daemon.dll", which is located on the harddrive in the main directory of Windows (e.g. C:\Windows).

Obviously many gamers question the developer's sincerity. As stated, many of our users this summer noted the StarForce copy protection caused a long list of problems on their systems, something that developer also denied.

It's a brave-new world where copy protection quietly installs drivers that compromise system stability, mandates what programs users can run on their systems, and now - deletes files needed by other programs to function. The push in some cases is ironically leading some gamers, traditionally against piracy, to acquire pirated titles simply to be free of the protection scheme.

Is a several week delay in keeping titles off of torrent trackers worth alienating an entire user base and taking a public relation hit? While nobody suggests companies don't have the right to secure their intellectual property, surely they can devise schemes that - like the old medical mantra - first do no harm.

Related:
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  3. New Opera 'Unite': Everybody's A Web Server
  4. Google Starts Discussion About Speeding Things Up
  5. Google Voice Invitations Going Out
  6. Google Announces PC Operating System
  7. Vonage: Apple Approved Our iPhone App
  8. Australia Continues Quest To Purge Internet Of Naughty Bits
Forums » Irritation-Ware
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Post a:
Goldman

join:2002-06-21
Maumelle, AR

Don't Buy It

Gamers should stay away from these titles and the companies that produce them. There's no excuse for this type of intrusion into your box.
permalink · 2004-10-07 10:29:01 · Reply to this

reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL

Re: Don't Buy It

said by Goldman See Profile:
Gamers should stay away from these titles and the companies that produce them. There's no excuse for this type of intrusion into your box.
But how do I know? Anyone want to post a list of intrusive copy protection schemes.

A publisher has no right to tell me I can't use daemon-tools. My office is a mess. It would take a whole year just to find one CD. SO I need to use virtual CDs.
permalink · 2004-10-07 10:52:06 · Print · Reply to this
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

 Well, most software companies have a product satisfaction (or at least compatibility) guarantee with them. Also, on most (if not all) user agreements state that, should you not agree to their terms, then return to vendor for a full refund. It's pretty obvious software like this MIGHT conflict with your system set-up, and the product is then defective - at least in the consumer's eyes.

Now, I don't know how long (or if ever) a refund would take from these people if you exercise your claim on the software. But, I think if enough people sent these games back to the manufactuer due to their crappy "protection" schemes, the vendors would eventually have to see that these pester-ware bundles are LOSING customers.

Personally, I make it a point to NOT buy any software that requires media to run. CD-Keys are highly annoying, but managable...but CD authentication itself is just pure BS. America's Army, Enemy Territory, UT (Classic, '03, and '04) and others are the games I choose to purchase. The rest, I just don't support their business ethics, and I won't buy.
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:10:44 · Print · Reply to this
some_yahoo5

join:2004-10-21
Manteca, CA

 And what do you suggest that programmers and game companies do? I am a programmer and I have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

I will not work in the game industry just because I dislike being stolen from. If you want completely open, unprotected games, I have a suggestion. Take a year or two, hire 20 or so people, produce it, and then go to a computer store where some 14 year old kid offers to sell you your own game for $3.

Without copy protection, there would be no games.
permalink · 2004-10-21 16:41:02 · Reply to this

reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL

Re: Don't Buy It

said by some_yahoo5 See Profile:

Without copy protection, there would be no games.
Without gamers who buy games, there would be no games. So you better respect us or we may just not buy your games.
permalink · 2004-10-25 00:39:19 · Reply to this

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Bull****!

I had to get the Starforce Driver Removal tool to get that crap off of my system, too bad my GigaPocket(Sony software) won't play the DVR recorded shows any more!

Stupid ass copy protection Nazis! Worse yet, I got INFECTED by this Starforce crap from a game demo! WTF? Scared someone is going to copy the freakin demo? The POS that they are giving away? Colin McRae Rally 2005 *DEMO*.

Thanks for the headaches assclowns!
--
Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out.
permalink · 2004-10-07 10:33:44 · Print · Reply to this
sago

join:2001-12-19

pirated copies better

It's ironic, isn't it? People download an unofficial copy from the p2p to get a product that won't hurt their machine.

Very strange indeed.
permalink · 2004-10-07 10:44:13 · Reply to this

techwench
I Work For Food
Premium
join:2003-06-26
Sherman, TX

Re: pirated copies better

Beautiful!

Aah yes...If I had a nutsack, this would bring a tear to it.
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:07:01 · Reply to this
wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..

join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

Re: pirated copies better

You almost made me spit out a whole mouthful of iced tea with this one!!

puritan
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:06:38 · Reply to this

techwench
I Work For Food
Premium
join:2003-06-26
Sherman, TX

Re: pirated copies better

Better you than me.

Glad I could be of assistance.
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:09:10 · Reply to this

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
1 edit

Re: pirated copies better

assistance = ass is tense, i wonder why that is

with two letters switched of course
permalink · 2004-10-07 15:44:44 · Reply to this

techwench
I Work For Food
Premium
join:2003-06-26
Sherman, TX

Re: pirated copies better

Damn right, my ass is tense!
permalink · 2004-10-07 16:29:16 · Reply to this
missb_2000

join:2003-02-17
Mckinney, TX

They should be required to INFORM buyers

They should be required to list that information on the outside of the box along with the system requirements. The Sims 2 spits with Clone CD and older versions of Daemon Tools. Since the software is opened when the user installs it they are unable to take it back for a refund which screws them even further.
permalink · 2004-10-07 10:52:04 · Reply to this
Pony99CA

join:2004-09-05
Hollister, CA

Re: They should be required to INFORM buyers

said by missb_2000 See Profile:
They should be required to list that information on the outside of the box along with the system requirements.
That's a great idea. Many people don't check system requirements, but at least the company can say they proactively warned buyers before they purchased the program.
permalink · 2004-10-07 15:38:01 · Reply to this
Vivi
Mr Happy

join:2002-07-28
MD

teh

Funny how most of the games that use these illegal copy protection schemes are crappy anyhow.
permalink · 2004-10-07 10:54:18 · Reply to this

icp1
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Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: teh

said by Vivi See Profile:
Funny how most of the games that use these illegal copy protection schemes are crappy anyhow.
Not all. KOTOR makes you uninstall alcohol 120% to use.
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:00:01 · Reply to this

KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
·Comcast

1 edit

Re: teh

said by icp1 See Profile:
said by Vivi See Profile:
Funny how most of the games that use these illegal copy protection schemes are crappy anyhow.
Not all. KOTOR makes you uninstall alcohol 120% to use.
What a bunch of cr*p. Software simply should not tell you (the end user) what other software you can have installed on your system.
permalink · 2004-10-07 12:23:09 · Print · Reply to this
Ascensi0n

join:2004-06-24
CANUCKTOPIA

Re: teh

The Producers of Daemons and companies like Alcohol should sue the people who impliment this shit into the cds. Just like the Spyware ppl who sued Ad-Aware and alike because they were identified as spyware programs..

But this is even worse if it screws around with your system and already legally purchased installed programs on your system.

asc
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:25:49 · Reply to this

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
2 edits

Re: teh

legally purchased or downloaded freeware installed programs on your system.
i belive that's what you meant sence dtools is free
permalink · 2004-10-07 15:47:06 · Reply to this
fox171171

join:2004-10-09
Canada

Shooting yourself in the foot...

I don't have any CD emulation software, and KOTOR sometimes wouldn't run, displaying an error dialog saying "Conflict with disc emulator software detected."

Windows Media Player 10 won't play my (100% legal store bought) DVDs, saying "Windows Media Player cannot play the DVD because a problem occurred with digital copyright protection."

I anticipate a future headline "Piracy on the rise, because that's the only way to get something that works."
permalink · 2004-10-09 16:33:29 · Reply to this

Dennis
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Algonquin, IL

Host:
Chicago
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Users find Hot Dea..
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dongle?

why not include a physical USB dongle "key" required to play the game.

Simply plug in the usb dongle (32mb usb keychain things are so cheap) and require that for use. No more 32 digit cd keys or programs required.
--
I want to be different, just like everybody else.

Beer Review's
permalink · 2004-10-07 10:57:06 · Reply to this

Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state

1 edit

Re: dongle?

said by Dennis See Profile:
why not include a physical USB dongle "key" required to play the game.

Simply plug in the usb dongle (32mb usb keychain things are so cheap) and require that for use. No more 32 digit cd keys or programs required.
Because dongles are easily emulated/cracked also. People have been emulating/cracking HASP dongles for ages.

Also a dongle is essentially nothing but that same 32 digit cd key stored in hardware form. Most of the emulators work by simply intercepting the communication from the dongle, getting the key and storing it to emulate
--
Forum Posts:5307
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:01:13 · Print · Reply to this
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus

 Yeah, but if you ever did work with software that required a hardware key (or dongle as its sometimes called), you know that there are programs (emulators, cracks, etc.) that can emulate the key with it being there.

They work good for a short time. That is, until someone figures out how they work and emulates them.
--
Victory Not Vengeance
Viva La Fee' Verte!
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:03:46 · Reply to this
Sancus

join:2002-10-17

 So that they can make sure they lose as many customers as possible to piracy who want to be able to play their own games without finding one of several dozen stupid little dongles that may get lost?

Gimme a break. I already download CD cracks just so that I can play my legally purchased games without having to bother with idiotic CD insert authorization.
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:03:49 · Reply to this
djhexer

join:2002-10-07
Sparks, NV

 Just great not only do you need not to loose the CD/DVD now you nned to worry about loosing a USB device. BAD IDEA!!! most people use programs to crack CD/DVD so they do not need to keep the CD cole by they could store it away and use it only to reinstall if needed
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:52:39 · Reply to this

SND2005
Premium
join:2001-09-15
Im Over Here

Hmm..

Sounds like they should be added to the virus watch lists.
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:04:06 · Reply to this
yazdzik
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join:2000-07-26
Honesdale, PA
·New York Connect
·Verizon Online DSL

1 edit

small claims anyone?

Dear Friends,

The legal term for "first do no harm" is culpable liability.

As a matter of law, it is up to the person whose copyright has been breached to sue, not to cause property damage as a protection against a possible breach.

No, it is not lawful to fix the brakes on your spouse's lovers car because he may hire a hit man.

A consultation with a $50 ambulance chasing amateur would have made this issue clear to any software producer. Now, it is equally true that MS breaches statute on a daily basis, but they have at their disposal slightly better legal staff than most of us can afford.

All good wishes,

Yazdzik

--
Is there no laches in Buffalo?
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:07:09 · Print · Reply to this

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: small claims anyone?

said by yazdzik See Profile:
M$
You had to ruin a perfectly good post. I just stopped reading after seeing that, and disregarded everything you had to say. "M$" is no longer clever or funny, so just give it up. It's either MS or Microsoft.
--
I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap.
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:10:21 · Reply to this

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

2 edits

Re: small claims anyone?

said by Jeremy341 See Profile:
said by yazdzik See Profile:
M$
You had to ruin a perfectly good post. I just stopped reading after seeing that, and disregarded everything you had to say. "M$" is no longer clever or funny, so just give it up. It's either MS or Microsoft.
Censorship Jerw? Are you saying he has no right to choose his own words? Get over it.

It is anything he chooses to call it. Personally I think M$ is quite accurate, let us hope so for the stock holders. Then again, as I am a "dyed in the wool" MicroSux hater, I still have my "Bill Gatus of BORG" poster on the wall. But of all my favorites, this is one:
»osiris.urbanna.net/images/bill-g···1-03.jpg

Oh, did you notice they did a piece on how to switch from the "Big blewie" to "Firefox" on the Screen Savers today? Time for you to catch up, Jerw, 'cause the world is beating a path to Firefox, and with good reason.

Nother pic for your viewing pleasure:
»osiris.urbanna.net/images/piss_on_it.jpg

--
»www.wispdirectory.com/
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:21:49 · Print · Reply to this

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: small claims anyone?

said by DaDogs See Profile:
Censorship Jerw? Are you saying he has no right to choose his own words? Get over it.
Oh boy, look who's back with another new username. I can't possibly censor him, and I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to choose his own words. What I'm saying is that if he chooses to use words that I don't like, I have the right to disregard everything he has to say. And since this is an open forum, I also have the right to state my own opinion on what he has to say.

Thought control DeltaFox DaDogs? Are you saying I have no right to choose whose opinions I consider? Get over it.
--
I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap.
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:27:05 · Print · Reply to this

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

2 edits

Re: small claims anyone?

said by Jeremy341 See Profile:
said by DaDogs See Profile:
Censorship Jerw? Are you saying he has no right to choose his own words? Get over it.
Oh boy, look who's back with another new username. I can't possibly censor him, and I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to choose his own words. What I'm saying is that if he chooses to use words that I don't like, I have the right to disregard everything he has to say. And since this is an open forum, I also have the right to state my own opinion on what he has to say.

Thought control DeltaFox DaDogs? Are you saying I have no right to choose whose opinions I consider? Get over it.
As long as you have been on this forum and you haven't figure out how to change your user name without makeing a new account? LoL. That explains it.

Aye, you have the right to disregard everything he says, and the rest of us have the right to disregard everything you say, and we do.

Nother pic for your edification:
»osiris.urbanna.net/images/keyboard2.jpg
or two:
»osiris.urbanna.net/images/MSWORD97.gif
--
»www.wispdirectory.com/
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:33:57 · Print · Reply to this

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada

Re: small claims anyone?

um ok i'm going to step in on this one, microsoft is a company, that most likely made the operating system that you are using and critisizing (unless your a fack user, or linsux user) now winblows has it's problems but i quite enjoying using it because i'm a lazy person at heart.

and the crtl+alt+del thing is from the dos days and used for winNT login and some networks have it as standard for login so get another sterotype

someone that got that bored and decided to make that prompt is sadder then someone who makes a clone of a virus because they think they are being cool
permalink · 2004-10-07 15:55:19 · Print · Reply to this

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

1 edit

Re: small claims anyone?

BonezX;



Observe that it does not rattle my tree when you call linux linsux. Really that was the only point I wanted to make. It is just that Jerw and I have been "pals" for so long that I couldn't resist the friendly jabs.

I don't care if you use Windows. Use whatever system floats your boat.

I understood where Ctrl+Alt+Delete comes from, where it is used today, and believe it or not many versions of Linux will accept it as a reboot function nowadays.

It was a joke, just a joke. Dont get your panties in a bunch.
--
»www.wispdirectory.com/
permalink · 2004-10-07 16:56:46 · Print · Reply to this

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada

Re: small claims anyone?

you are aware i did that out of blind boredom and the fact that it seemed like a good idea at the time.

that and it's good media when people fight, or look like they fight(think "pro" wrestling), gets the point across in an edgy new age manner.
permalink · 2004-10-07 17:32:20 · Reply to this

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

Re: small claims anyone?

Lol... I am aware now.
permalink · 2004-10-07 17:45:40 · Reply to this

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
said by DaDogs See Profile:
As long as you have been on this forum and you haven't figure out how to change your user name without makeing a new account? LoL. That explains it.
What are you talking about? I know how to change my username, and I have done it once before. I don't have any idea what that has to do with what I said, though.
--
I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap.
permalink · 2004-10-07 18:46:06 · Print · Reply to this

Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
said by Jeremy341 See Profile:
Thought control DeltaFox DaDogs? Are you saying I have no right to choose whose opinions I consider? Get over it.
Don't forget ikarus1 See Profile. How Ironic that he breaks out with the (incorrect) claim of censorship, and in the process attempts to "censor" you in the same way. Of course it all makes sense once you realize you are dealing with someone who only sees value in his opinion and the opinions of those who blindly agree with him.
--
John Kerry- doing for America whatever it is you want him to do for however long you want him to do it; except if you didn't want him to do it in the first place in which case he never did it.
permalink · 2004-10-07 18:11:25 · Print · Reply to this

See 9 replies to this post

DaDogs
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Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

1 edit
said by Jeremy341 See Profile:

Thought control DeltaFox DaDogs? Are you saying I have no right to choose whose opinions I consider? Get over it.
Did you see me say that? Go back on the meds, you are imagining things again.
»osiris.urbanna.net/images/DearWorld.jpg

You and Chuckie, what a pair, what a pair.

We need to end this thread though, I am about out of pictures and I don't feel like going here to get more:
»members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/
»members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/m···3-02.jpg
--
»www.wispdirectory.com/
permalink · 2004-10-08 00:05:58 · Print · Reply to this

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: small claims anyone?

said by DaDogs See Profile:
Did you see me say that? Go back on the meds, you are imagining things again.
Did you see me say that yazdzik See Profile "has no right to choose his own words"? Please, copy and paste my words because as far as I can tell, you're the one who is imagining things.
--
I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap.
permalink · 2004-10-08 00:11:02 · Print · Reply to this

DaDogs
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Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

Re: small claims anyone?


Kissy Kissy
Jerw... whatever son, lets kiss and make up.
--
»www.wispdirectory.com/
permalink · 2004-10-08 00:14:55 · Print · Reply to this

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: small claims anyone?

said by DaDogs See Profile:
Jerw... whatever son, lets kiss and make up.
Thank you for admitting defeat. It's about time.
--
I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap.
permalink · 2004-10-08 00:16:39 · Reply to this

DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA

4 edits

Re: small claims anyone?

Admitting defeat? I didn't even realize this was a contest. Thanks for bringing it to my attention that you thought it was a contest. Next time I promise to make it easier for you. LoL, child, I'm not even sweating yet. Contest? Please.

MICROSOFT =
Most
Intelligent
Customers
Realize
Our
Software
Only
Fools
Teenagers

Cool, huh?
By the way, isn't it past your bed time?

--
»www.wispdirectory.com/
permalink · 2004-10-08 00:22:23 · Print · Reply to this
hedyd4u
Premium
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY		 Have both firefox and IE and prefer IE for managing favorites over firefox.
permalink · 2004-10-07 16:27:15 · Reply to this

Lazarus
Slavin Away
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Westby, MT
clubs:
said by Jeremy341 See Profile:
said by yazdzik See Profile:
M$
You had to ruin a perfectly good post. I just stopped reading after seeing that, and disregarded everything you had to say. "M$" is no longer clever or funny, so just give it up. It's either MS or Microsoft.
I type it the same way is not even conscious anymore. Just a habit. Not a big deal to why make one o it.
--
In certain extreme situations the law is inadaquate.In order to shame its inadaquacy,it is necessary to act outside the law,to persue natural justice.This is not vengence.Revenge is not a valid motive its an emotional response,no not vengence. PUNISHMENT!
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:41:14 · Print · Reply to this

IT Guy
Ow, My Balls
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join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
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said by Jeremy341 See Profile:
said by yazdzik See Profile:
M$
You had to ruin a perfectly good post. I just stopped reading after seeing that, and disregarded everything you had to say. "M$" is no longer clever or funny, so just give it up. It's either MS or Microsoft.
Are you the not-so-free speech police now? Lighten up, it may not be funny or cleaver, but last I checked there was no requirement to be a stand-up comic to post to the forum.
permalink · 2004-10-18 18:28:01 · Print · Reply to this

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: small claims anyone?

said by IT Guy See Profile:
Are you the not-so-free speech police now?
Yes.
--
I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap.
permalink · 2004-10-18 18:47:00 · Reply to this
yazdzik
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-26
Honesdale, PA		 Sorry, it is indeed a habit - post edited.

All good wishes,

Yazdzik
--
Is there no laches in Buffalo?
permalink · 2004-10-07 14:39:21 · Reply to this

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: small claims anyone?

said by yazdzik See Profile:
Sorry, it is indeed a habit - post edited.
yazdzik See Profile, since the idiot decided to join the thread, I lost track of the original intent of my post. I appreciate the edit, and I'm sure you understood the intention of my post.
--
I do not trust Firefox. Spread anything besides that horrid piece of crap.
permalink · 2004-10-08 00:14:02 · Print · Reply to this
superunknown
Premium
join:2003-05-21
Spring, TX

Doom III

Doom III does the same thing. It refuses to run if you have Clone CD installed.
permalink · 2004-10-07 11:10:22 · Reply to this
Sunburn

join:2000-10-05
Denver, CO

Re: Doom III

said by superunknown See Profile:
Doom III does the same thing. It refuses to run if you have Clone CD installed.
A downloaded version installed fine with Clone CD. Guess there is a good reason not to buy this crap.
permalink · 2004-10-07 12:07:27 · Reply to this

OrigZaphod042
Didn't You Hear? I Come In Six Packs Now
Premium
join:2001-07-22
Round Lake, IL
clubs:

Only the purchasers are hurt..

This is a prime case of only the "Law abiding folk" (used losely here) getting the short end of the stick...

I personally Live by the copyright code that states I am allowed to make an archival backup of any work I OWN.

I do this to all software I by, I finally got tired of having a cd go bad, (yes publishers it does happen), then being stuck with a copy I can no longer use, and being forced to buy a NEW copy...

Yes I know they Love that, but i dont..

Potection like this only hurts the ones that want to own it,and drives many to the p2p areas to get a backup, thus negating there plan anyway....

When will these idiots learn.....
--
RAM: Window's drug of choice since 1986
Forum Posts:(To many to Count, not enough to brag about)
permalink · 2004-10-07 12:23:36 · Print · Reply to this
russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

Re: Only the purchasers are hurt..

According to US District Judge Charles Shaw, you don't own software, you merely license it. Thus 17 USC 117 (allowing for archival backups) doesn't apply.

Personally I think US District Judge Charles Shaw has a weaker grasp of the law than a fictional beagle invented by Charles Schultz, but for now that's the law, at least in the Eastern District of Missouri.
permalink · 2004-10-07 15:51:39 · Reply to this

Ben677

join:2000-07-08
Monroe, GA

Re: Only the purchasers are hurt..

said by russotto See Profile:
According to US District Judge Charles Shaw, you don't own software, you merely license it.
I don't own the software how ever I purchased a license to use the program. I didn't buy a CD but a license to use their "product". So really it doesn't matter if it came on a CD or a lettuce leaf I grew in the back yard. I've paid to use the program.

Yes some judges need to get a clue. Finishing college and law school doesn't raise your IQ. Kinda like educated idiots.
--
P4 2.4c@3.4,P4P800,512meg hyperx pc3500,256megPNY FX5600,SBlive,2x36G WD Raptors raid0,18.1" Sunmicrosytems LCD, yada,yada
permalink · 2004-10-07 18:51:14 · Print · Reply to this

OrigZaphod042
Didn't You Hear? I Come In Six Packs Now
Premium
join:2001-07-22
Round Lake, IL
clubs:

 Well if that is the case, then software companies need to get a clue as well (well ok a few clues)..

There needs to be a method in place then to allow easier replacement of the lease. Since the license is not time limited, I should be able to have it forever. But I know then they are going to say the life of the product, which they would then say expired when the cd broke...

They are all clueless, money grubbing........etc.....

oh well.. at least for the tech savy we can get around most of it....
--
RAM: Window's drug of choice since 1986
Forum Posts:(To many to Count, not enough to brag about)
permalink · 2004-10-08 10:17:57 · Print · Reply to this

rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:

'

Karl...better check your keyboard. It appears sometimes if you type an "s" you also get the apostrophe activated. Hint: plurals are almost never formed with an apostrophe in English. Apostrophes are supposed to be used for either contractions or possessives. You're ordinarily a good writer, but this piece is different.

--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here
Jeopardy! replies REALLY suck!
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:09:33 · Print · Reply to this

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: '

Aw....come now, there was only two instances of it and I was pre-java max-saturation level at the time.

My crack team of forty interns likewise missed it, and they will be disciplined accordingly.

I think they're all now corrected, thanks.
permalink · 2004-10-07 13:49:17 · Reply to this
Pony99CA

join:2004-09-05
Hollister, CA

SpyWare

While I understand software conflicts may prohibit using a program, I think a program that scans your system for software it can work with but doesn't "like" (and, worse, modifies that software without your permission) should be considered spyware.

I wonder if the new anti-spyware legislation considers it such. If so, there might be legal remedies (beyond the typical suing).

Steve
permalink · 2004-10-07 15:34:16 · Reply to this

boog
Premium
join:2000-07-24
Trenton, OH

Re: SpyWare

I think I would call it a virus for scanning a system and deleting/renaming files.
permalink · 2004-10-07 19:31:12 · Reply to this
Pony99CA

join:2004-09-05
Hollister, CA

Re: SpyWare

said by boog See Profile:
I think I would call it a virus for scanning a system and deleting/renaming files.
It's definitely not a virus. A virus has to have some means of self-propagation, and it doesn't sound like this does.
permalink · 2004-10-07 21:22:22 · Reply to this

Portmonkey
scurvy
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Southern IL

It Used to be MY COMPUTER

Sometimes I feel like I'm standing in the front yard with a big stick fighting the hordes of intruders all the while they're pouring in through the window$, chimney, and back door.
It's hard enough to protect ourselves from the constant onslaught of viruses and spyware little alone something new hitching a ride with the things we used to trust.
Every day it's more tempting to just go graze with the sheep in the field, but until then I'll throw another log in the fireplace, board up the windows, and brick up the back door.
--
"A Bartas can do what a Bartas will But simple I according to my skill" Anne Bradstreet
permalink · 2004-10-07 17:26:32 · Print · Reply to this

Payback

@shawcable.net

Orwell was 30 years off...

Microsoft has gotten in shit for making sure other programs (Java?) can't run when installed on the same computer, so why are these geeks getting away with this?

Soon:

Buy antivirus program, it disables any firewall that isn't from the same publisher.

Buy an iPod, suddenly your computer won't play WMA... (actually, that's not such a bad idea, but you get my point...)
permalink · 2004-10-09 17:45:13 · Reply to this
jimbo2150

join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH

Copyright gone bad

What ever happened to the hay-days of VHS tapes? Noone ever gave it a second thought who was copying what movie or show.

Now I hear all these problems with CDs being copy-protected and, in the case of audio CD, causes computer problems and will not play in some older CD players.

Now I hear of games courrupting files not belonging to themselves?

I say get rid of all copy-protection before it hacks into your system takes over your whole house.

I have also heard of some audio CD in Europe (some by American artists) that have cause lock-ups and crashes from some CD with copy-protection that was, none-the-less, being 'tested'.

Here is what I belive: P2P file sharing is a great resource for getting information and promoting new programs, music, etc.
Just as well, it is legal to use and will deffinitely be used by many to get music of all types as long as the companies constantly release poor-quality games (I recently bought a game that had Nintendo-style graphics and no gameplay value for $30! I had no clue it was that bad or I would not have bought it!), music with no value (I will leave that up to all of you), and then add copy-protection that is less-than-par in terms of functionality.
I would say it is also illegal to alter another program's files without first notifying the user and/or the edited program's company for permission. If not then it should be as it is not thier property (which does violate the copyright laws right there). LOL! They tell everyone to stop violating copyright laws when they themselves are doing so, I guess that is 'big business' for you. What was all that about spyware programs should be easy to delete and not interfere with normal operation? It should be applied to all programs.

As long as all this BS is going on, your not ganna win any court battles as you, as well, are performing illegal actions, if not immoral ones.
permalink · 2004-10-19 10:24:25 · Print · Reply to this
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