 
Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26 | Deja vu It reminds me european 56K modems being selles in brand new PC, they were locked for only one provider. I don't think SIPphone will win this.
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Jesus saves, but only Buddha makes incremental backups. | |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| Re: Deja vu The problem may be with the advertising and packaging. No one could object if they were selling "Vonage service (includes Linksys or Netgear router programmed for use with Vonage)" BUT if their ads and packaging prominently feature the router and either do not disclose that it's "locked" to Vonage service, or disclose it only after the consumer arrives at the store and then only in fine print on the box (as an example - I haven't seen the actual packaging) then I think there is a serious problem. Customers have a reasonable expectation that routers are not tied to a single provider (just as when you buy a non-digital camera you don't expect it to be tied to a certain brand of film, to the exclusion of all others). If that is not the case, then it needs to be fully disclosed to the customer, certainly before they put any money down for the product, but also in the printed advertising so the customer doesn't make a wasted trip to the store to discover that the product is locked to a single provider.
Hopefully the stores that sell these intentionally-crippled devices will get a lot of returns, and decide that full disclosure up front is better for their bottom line. | |
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vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD | So you cant sell products in the stores???? I should sue because my xbox controller doesnt work on sony? I dont get it. | |
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| krobar
Is this thing on?
join:2002-09-15
Columbus, OH | Re: So you cant sell products in the stores???? This'd be more like buying an xbox that only works with XBox Live and not the EA Network. 
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Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat. | |
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lazarus_
join:2002-08-31
Resolute, NU
edit:
September 30th, @01:32PM
| said by vic102482  :
I should sue because my xbox controller doesnt work on sony? I dont get it.
Umm actually its like selling you a generic DSL or Cable modem that is loaded with a firmware that only works with the crappiest ISP in your area. And later on when you decide to change ISP you cant use your generic locked modem because its only usable on your original ISP's network. Sounds like Vonage is trying to act like a cell phone network and try and stop people from wandering to competitors.. If thats the case, I'm sure smart people wont want to have anything to do w/ this company since they will probably be bad news in the near future..
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Facts are meaningless; you can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! Facts, schmacks | |
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| | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| Re: So you cant sell products in the stores???? said by BosstonesOwn :
This is the repercussions of what happens when every company goes after microsoft. Now every company thinks it has the right to sue over anti competitive practices.
Nintendo and Sega were both sued over anti-competitive practises before MS, I think.
What's sad is, that the gov't itself isn't the one initiating these suits in the first place, which they should be, rather leaving the onus upon the relatively un-monied consumer to pursue the legal action.
I guess the question is, is this "Vonage-only" VoIP jack in the back of the router, considered an anti-competitive lock-out, like the lock-out chip in the old 8-bit Nintendo console was? I sincerely hope it gets tried by a jury trial.
PS. My old SMC 7004VBR's new firmware, changed the support for dynamic DNS, from a couple of providers to only one provider, probably based on a business transaction between them and SMC.
Personally, I wouldn't mind some pro-competetive anti-exclusionary regulation over the VoIP market. You know things are going to get ugly and proprietary before they are going to get easy and interoperable by consumers, right? This is only the first wave. | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA | Monopoly If you look at the judgements waged against microsoft for being anti-competitive and for monopoly practices, I think they might have a small wood leg to stand on. | |
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Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26
| Re: Monopoly said by technick :
If you look at the judgements waged against microsoft for being anti-competitive and for monopoly practices, I think they might have a small wood leg to stand on.
It's a partnership between Linksys and Vonage, to be considered as monopoly, Linksys has to offer their own VoIP service.
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Jesus saves, but only Buddha makes incremental backups. | |
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Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26
| Re: Monopoly said by DaSneaky1D :
Look at the following link:
»www.linksys.com/voice/default.asp
Tell me where it boldly shows these products work with SIPphone...or that they only work exclusively with Vonage.
Well, it's not clear that Vonage is the only one, but it clearly shows it doesn't work with all VoIP provider.
quote:
* A Voice over IP Service Package from a specific provider is required, and sold separately.
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Jesus saves, but only Buddha makes incremental backups. | |
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Mellow
Premium
join:2001-11-16
Salisbury, MD
 ·HostGator
 ·Cavalier Telephone
| You guys are way off base "Roberston said Sipphone filed the suit after receiving complaints from Sipphone customers who found they could not use certain Linksys products to access its service. Robertson said these customers were surprised to find they would be charged a monthly fee from Vonage in order to use the device. Furthermore, the device could not be used in conjunction with any other Net phone services."
The main reason they are suing is to get them to LABEL the retail boxes that it only works with vonage so they do not have to waste tech support time.
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Ocean City, MD Surfing Gallery | |
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| mchristsen
join:2004-05-10
Los Alamitos, CA | Re: You guys are way off base So why aren't all the VoIP providers filing suit? I bought the Linksys RT31P2 knowing that it was locked to Vonage. And I believe the display at Staples indicated that the RT31P2 and the PAP2 were to be used with Vonage.
Mike | |
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| hskrfan23
join:2004-03-18
West Sacramento, CA | *Broadband phone service from Vonage required. See product box for more details .....from Staples website who is selling this...so apparently it looks like it is on the box | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| Predictions come true, just not how you expect.... For all of you who were so strongly disputing my predictions that ISPs would get sued for favoring their own or affiliated VoIP providers, this lawsuit should be an indication of things to come. (Some two weeks ago, in an exchange with Tikker_los, highjinx, and odog, I mentioned false advertising claims as one of the possible legal pitfalls those favoring particular VoIP services might face.)
Yes, this involves a router vendor favoring a VoIP provider, but the issues involve substantial similarities. (Indeed, the favoritism claims may be even weaker here--because while individual customers may be, to a greater or lesser degree, limited in their ISP choices, it's harder to say they are limited in their router choices.)
Nevertheless, a lawsuit has been brought alleging someone else in the supply chain is improperly favoring a VoIP partner. This suit may in fact go nowhere, or it may have legs. Regardless, it is a pain inflicted on those who attempt to favor particular VoIP providers that will have to be dealt with.
We'll see more of these types of suits as other entrenched providers (both of goods and services) attempt to leverage their market positions into the VoIP field.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
| I agree with SIPphone Clearly the Linksys ads are "economic in the truth" and give a consumer a missleading impression. Certainly they don't indicate it only works with Vonage.
IF Cisco/Linksys want to put their bet on Vonage, with this hardware, why not come out and say it guys.
Right now therse router manufacturers are getting away with a lot of bad stuff. I have a new BEFSR81 V3 rounter and it is halving my internet speed compared to the model "41" I used prior. Do Linksys admit they are selling duff hardware...Nope. Do they say they are working on a "fix"|. Nope. They just charge full price, admit nothing and take the cash. It's time for a lot more honesty. And I am not picking just on Linksys. Netgear have long had disconnect problems with their 614 router range and where is the fix? | |
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sipphone blows ass
@vonage.net
| Re: I agree with SIPphone This is seriously the most baseless and retarded thing I have ever heard, and is not the right way to gain publicity, even for a lowlife company such as sipphone. If this case makes it anywhere but the garbage can, I will sure enough hang myself as it will become clear that the the end of the world has begun. | |
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| | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| Re: I agree with SIPphone said by sipphone blows ass:
This is seriously the most baseless and retarded thing I have ever heard, and is not the right way to gain publicity, even for a lowlife company such as sipphone. If this case makes it anywhere but the garbage can, I will sure enough hang myself as it will become clear that the the end of the world has begun.
An anonymous posting from "vonage.net"? LOL. Of course you would be biased in this regard.
Maybe you should hang yourself though - but for a different reason - associating with a company apparently engaging in anti-competitive and deceptive advertising practices. | |
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justmeagainanon
@mfi.net
| Its ok BUT It's ok for vonage to package hardware with whomever, BUT they need to disclose the fact that it will only work with their service. People WONT buy that router knowing it will only work with vonage VOIP, unless they are a vonage customer. Obviously Vonage knows this so is why they did not disclose that information.
In short they got caught in what was probably a marketing ploy to sell routers and lock people in to their service. Something like this is not just overlooked on accident. In other words they are trying to sucker their customers.
Just how I see it. | |
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schnuggles
Stays Crunchy In Milk
join:2003-06-07
Deming, NM
|  Depends on what "locked" means...
Rather than crying/suing, why not produce a firmware that would allow the use of the device with ANY voip system?
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Salus Populi Suprema Est Lex-Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) | |
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CrashOverride
@charter.com
| Calling All Morons!!! Grow up you idiots. Do you buy a car without checking into it? Can you read and write? If so can you not be morons and investigate it a little more on the internet or grow a brain and call Linksys.
I sell Sprint phones should people sue Sprint because it says it works on the Sprint PCS network and no other provider unless you are roaming.
Hello, calling all morons and stupid people!!! While I hold your hand while crossing the street so you don't get ran over (what a shame) there is a simple solution.
1. Change the box advertising and be done with it!
2. Return it when you realize you were to stupid to be using VOIP!
3. Use Vonage and Shut Up! | |
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Elcrazon
@rr.com
| Re: Calling All Morons!!! That is the whole point of the suit: to make them disclose ON THE BOX that it will only work with Vonage and that Vonage charges a monthly service rate. Nothing more, nothing less.
As for the Sprint analogy: of course no one would sue Sprint, they tell you upfront that it will only work with Sprint. The packaging on the Linksys boxes do not. | |
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webmastercartruckpac
@comcast.net
| packaging says vonage-enabled I looked at the packaging of the linksys router and the linksys phone adapter (pap2). it states that they are vonage enabled not that they are vonage locked. This is just tricky wording...linksys/vonage will win this because according to law full disclosure is not neccessary as long as they state what the product will do not what it won't do.
One question why would people even buy the adapter at the store don't they hand you a box when you order the service?
Linksys/vonage are not the only companies that are doing this anyway. One example of this is Lingo.
What linksys needs to do is offer the phone adapter(s) that are not locked to just one company at the same price as the adapters that are locked. More importantly the compaies selling these products in stores need to have a bigger display for the ones that are not locked and offer the alternative of the locked adapters. I've already noticed that some online stores like newegg.com don't even offer the phone adapters as well as the ones locked to one phone company. | |
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SIPphone Sues Vonage
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