Telecommuters Not Trusted Trust, not broadband, hindering home-work boom According to data from In-Stat, Nearly a third of US workers, or 44 million individuals, are expected to work at home at least part-time in 2004, a surge that can be directly tied to broadband adoption. According to a study done by a division of Toshiba in Australia however, the biggest thing hindering continued increases in telecommuting isn't broadband; it's trust. According to the study, half of Australian managers do not trust their employees to work away from the office, and 75 percent of workers think that their co-workers who work from home are not working at all. Those often inaccurate insecurities, the study concludes, are costing businesses money.
|
 | | Zombies Maybe it's more like the IT managers don't want their employee's virus ridden zombie email blasters on the corporate network.
I sure as hell don't. | |
|  |  JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD | Re: Zombies That happens with traditional commuters too. You don't have to be a telecommuter to bring your laptop home, get an infection, and bring it to the office the next day. | |
| | | wtansillNcc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA | Re: Zombies said by JTRockville:
That happens with traditional commuters too. You don't have to be a telecommuter to bring your laptop home, get an infection, and bring it to the office the next day.
My company has a policy of not allowing any home PCs to connect to the corporate network via VPN. If you have a corporate laptop loaded with AV programs, and a few other items, then and only then are you allowed to access the VPN, and then only from the laptop's enclosed dial-up software. I could not, per policy, plug the laptop into my network's router and use my DSL line...
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| | | |  GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
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Hollywood, FL | Re: Zombies Our policy requires you install company provided AV, firewall before you can even launch the VPN software client installer.
From there, you can access with your home PC or laptop if you like...as I do since I don't have a company provided laptop.
K.
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|  JakCrow
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Palo Alto, CA | You might want to check your corporate network for zombies and email blasters. You're not the only one surfing the net from work. | |
| | vic102482Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by mculbert:
Maybe it's more like the IT managers don't want their employee's virus ridden zombie email blasters on the corporate network.
I sure as hell don't.
There is software out there that scans if the machine has the latest patches and virus definitions before connecting to the VPN and it can be made maditory. Symantech and other providers make it.
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| |  mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
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North Babylon, NY | Blame the IT managers for not securing each computer properly | |
| | | | | Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Zombies That is like the kid plugging holes in the dyke with his fingers. Sooner or later it will blow up in your face. Linux is not the end all solution. And forcing people to use something they are not familiar with is even more of a problem waiting to happen.
But hey it's your choice as a manager. Just curious but did those laptops come with windows licenses ?
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| | | |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
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Da Bronx
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| Re: Zombies said by BosstonesOwn:
Linux is not the end all solution. And forcing people to use something they are not familiar with is even more of a problem waiting to happen.
I disagree! If an employee can't break-out of what they are familiar with, and learn something new, I don't want them as employees! I don't hire people who know everything, I hire people who can learn. The ability to learn is the definition of intelligence; and I do not hire people of low intelligence.
I may be an old-fart, but I have learned a thing or two in the past 50 years!
Bob
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| | | | |  NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
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Grand Rapids, MI
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| Re: Zombies said by TamaraB:
said by BosstonesOwn:
Linux is not the end all solution. And forcing people to use something they are not familiar with is even more of a problem waiting to happen.
I disagree! If an employee can't break-out of what they are familiar with, and learn something new, I don't want them as employees! I don't hire people who know everything, I hire people who can learn. The ability to learn is the definition of intelligence; and I do not hire people of low intelligence.
I may be an old-fart, but I have learned a thing or two in the past 50 years!
Bob
I think the thing that should be stressed is that Linux is not an end all solution. Also, since I don't do the hiring for the other departments, everyone who comes in knows Windows. IT is like customer service. To throw them Linux and say, "Learn Something" doesn't get you many brownie points. Maybe you can do that, but I can't. Which is why we have a few Linux systems and mostly Windows systems.
Call me an old fart, but I prefer to make people's lives easier by supplying them with the tools that will help them perform to the best of their abilities. Not supplying them with software where they will spend months behind the eight ball trying to learn it or where my IT folks will spend time trying to teach them.
Just my .02 cents. 
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| | | | | | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
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| Re: Zombies said by Nightfall:
Call me an old fart, but I prefer to make people's lives easier by supplying them with the tools that will help them perform to the best of their abilities. Not supplying them with software where they will spend months behind the eight ball trying to learn it or where my IT folks will spend time trying to teach them.
Just my .02 cents.
Agree.... Guess I just run with a different crowd. My office is 2 blocks from NYU, and I find hiring 3rd year CS students (major in programming) Ideal for my needs. We run just over 200 Internet domains, with about 10,000 users exclusively on Solaris, BSD, and Linux servers co-located around the country; all this with my partner and I, 2 field techs, one secretary/bookkeeper and half dozen NYU CS students working from their dorms; everyone except the secretary are telecommuting.
Just about every 3rd year NYU CS student can jump right in and do a task on our network with relative low risk and quite impressive results. They all know UNIX, and can get around a command-line driven OS easily; which is needed since none of our servers runs any form of GUI.
So, in my case, I am providing them with the tools they are already familiar with... VI, FTP, SSH, (the only "software" needed to administer a nix system) and a knowledge of C/Unix.
To believe that every computer nerd is windows-centric is a mistake (a very expensive mistake). The best are actually C-Code Hackers and very Nix-Centric (like my NYU students); but like I said, we obviously run in very different circles This has worked for me for decades, since our days on the arpanet, and still works well.
The money I have avoided paying Gates over the years has bought my lovely yacht/home
Bob
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|
| | | Reviews:
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| Problem being is that new users to new technologies always going to make mistakes and some times people don't want them making mistakes on their systems. That is business. They don't want a new guy working on their 50 k cisco switch who is not familiar with the OS he is using. It makes your company look bad when the guy goes in and has to look threw 20 man pages for a simple command and it's switches or syntax.
Learning is a very important part of IT. If you don't learn you are obsolete, that is just the facts.
Pardon the pun on the "breaking out" part coming. When they "break out" of their box it is very possible they could "break out" a network or a very important server. Depends on where your clients lay. I know I have had to do some swaps before that made them very angry at even having the switch down for 2 or 3 minutes.
People learning quickly for you is good fortune shining upon you at this point. But it is not always the case. Me personally I know enough of how it all works to be dangerous with the wrong tools. But I also understand enough to fix any fubr conditions quickly and efficiently.
On the hiring point If I was an IT manager ( I have been reduced to contract switch monkey  from a tech) I would rather have people with a wide base to start and let them learn from others.
But When it comes to making them make a switch from windows to linux, that is in my book a big no-no, especially if the person has a very profound understanding of networking and security. Windows and Linux security are separate animals. The windows approach to security he may understand may leave a big hole in the system by accident. Besides what matter is the OS if the person is competent. I know many people who can do anything linux can on windows. And they run very securely threw multiple systems.
I have seen people take down whole servers by a one slip up in how ip chains takes switches. Was pretty funny having to fix it after the genius hammered it but It was not exactly an ideal situation when you have to travel 35 miles to do it in 20 minutes.
Sort of all over the place I guess but it comes down to learning is not the only thing. It is wrong to take a person who is great with one OS and force them to another solution. You take away their experience which puts them on a lower level. And makes them less valuable to your organization until he can become proficient in the new system. Which depending on the person could be months or years.
I am lucky I guess, I have knack for picking up on mostly anything tech based I read about, especially since I can pretty much memorize page for page of manuals.
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| Re: Zombies said by TamaraB:
said by BosstonesOwn:
Problem being is that new users to new technologies always going to make mistakes ...
Right on! However to me, windows is the "new technology", the new kid on the block; if it can't do UUCP it's raw-new!
Amazing how some people think nix systems are "new technologies", when they actually pre-date windows by decades!
Bob
No you misread.
I know how old unix is. However Linux is circa 1992-1993 so newer then windows.
And your misunderstanding is how I said new technology. To a life long windows user unix is new. So please leave the linux guru attitude at the door. It will quickly be wiped out when one fails to read into responses.
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| | | | | | | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
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| Re: Zombies said by BosstonesOwn:
No you misread.
I know how old unix is. However Linux is circa 1992-1993 so newer then windows.
You are quibbling about variations on an old theme. Linux is nothing more than a replacement for SCO Xenix (an X-86 version of AT&T UNIX) the difference is akin to the differences between PC-DOS, MS-DOS, and DR-DOS. If you can deal with one, you can deal with the rest. Linux (and X86 Free/Net-BSD) is nothing more than an X86 version of UNIX, which pre-dates DOS and Windows by years. They all work the same way, and differ very slightly.
Bob
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| | | | | | | Reviews:
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| But technically since the Linux authors claim it was a whole new rewrite of what THEY thought the environment should be it is a new technology same as windows was.
Different peoples looks on an OS. Very slight differences indeed but They are not the same technology since Linux was recoded. Again a difference of opinion by the authors of the software themselves. Same as the dos example.
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| | | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
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| said by BosstonesOwn:
Linux is not the end all solution.
I absolutely agree, it's not for everyone, not for most probably! It's just my solution, one I am comfortable with; probably not the solution MOST IT managers will implement. But I am an Old-Time-Fart!
said by BosstonesOwn:
and forcing people to use something they are not familiar with is even more of a problem waiting to happen.
I NEVER do that, I hire people who are comfortable with UNIX and with command-line administration and text-programming. This necessarily excludes those who have learned their IT skills on Windows systems, and can't manage without a GUI.
said by BosstonesOwn:
But hey it's your choice as a manager.
Certainly is! God Bless America!
said by BosstonesOwn:
Just curious but did those laptops come with windows licenses ?
The software originally on them was one of the MS/OS's and came with a Microsoft License, I have had varying results (mostly negative) with hardware vendors with respect to getting refunds for taking the MS software off the laptops; I have been told by a few vendors that they risk their lucrative contract with Microsoft if they do so ( I smell MAFIA here).
The Hardware is not MS, so there is no actual licence problem. But I have had big trouble getting reimbursed for NOT using the crap they installed, (the term crap is my very own assessment, and should not be construed as defamation) even after f-disking the drives and returning the CDs unopened! (again MAFIA Tactics)
I find this one of the biggest reasons NOT to use MS products. There is an implied Mafia-Style contract associated with these thieves, and it spills over to the hardware vendors as well (I realize they are under tremendous Mafia-Style pressure from MS).
Dell, turns out to be the best in this respect, you can actually purchase a server from them without a MS OS on it, (and without the MS extortion fees); but most vendors will not even support or honor their hardware warrantee if it is not running the original MS pre-installed stuff! I find this akin to criminal behavior, and illegal (I am not a lawyer), but it IS a problem!
We do have a few SUN Laptops, with solaris installed, for the folks who do most of their work on our solaris systems. There is NO "Licence" issues there, as Solaris is free as long as you own a sun server/laptop.
My only license issues to-date have been getting my money back from hardware vendors who pre-install windows OS's... It's like dealing with a whore, once you give her the money, you will NEVER get it back. Nice rep MicroShit has (Yes I am BIASED, but thats my right as a free American no?) ehh??
Bob
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| | | | | | | | | | | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
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| Re: Zombies said by Nightfall:
In a perfect world, everyone would know both operating systems. If you are hiring right out of college, then you have more flexibility than 99% of us do and can demand Linux knowledge.
I don't think knowing any particular operating system has very much to do with it at all. What I look for in a potential hire is someone who understands how things work "under the hood".... In other words someone who understands how the internet works at it's most fundamental levels, totally apart from OS constraints...
How does mail get from point a to point b, How is a web-page "pulled up" by a browser, how does SSH and SSL auth provide a secure tunnel? How can we tell if "user@example.com" is a real address or a spoofed one? How does DNS resolve a name to IP and an IP to name? Anyone who demonstrates a real knowledge and understanding of how these processes function is a potential employee.
What I have found is that most windows-centric IT folks, lack this fundamental knowledge; and instead know how to manipulate a particular OS-Specific program or tool to achieve a certain goal; but do not understand what is happening "under the hood". I have interviewed people with a long list of Certs. MCSE etc, who have no Idea (or a cursory idea) of how things actually work in reality, but could sit down in front of a Win2K IIS/Exchange server and make it do practically anything. I find this totally un-acceptable.
Most of my problems stem from fundamental flaws or omissions in the underlying architecture, and without an understanding of these architectures, a tech or administrator is totally lost in trying to remedy the problem. It has gotten so bad lately that I now discount any job applicant who uses an MCSE cert as evidence of competency! If that is the prevalent part of a resume, it goes into the trash! If on the other-hand, an applicant demonstrates a knowledge of how reality functions, he/she is promptly considered, no matter what OS he/she uses to ferret out the trouble.
I fear Gates has done the IT industry, and the internet community in general, a great dis-service! Practically ruined it actually! The "click-here" mentality is the root cause of most of the garbage we see today. That mentality tends to foster a profound ignorance of how things actually work and replaces reality with some "graphical pseudo-picture" of reality, which 9 times out of 10 is totally irrelevant!
Take all of this with a grain of salt! I AM very biased when it comes to MS. I believe they have been the bane of the internet, and have ruined what could have been an enabling and instructive public medium.
Bob
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| | | | | | | NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
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Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
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| Re: Zombies I won't quote your entire post TamaraB, but I have to agree with some points. First off, you would think that most IT people graduating today would know the answers to the questions you pose. I know, if I couldn't explain routing or how to configure it on a Cisco, that I wouldn't get the job. The easy part is setting up email accounts, which I would expect someone at home to know what to do. The hard part is, as you say, how to know if an address is real or spoofed.
What I have found in my travels are IT people who self educate themselves and know very little. Windows people aside, I find Linux nuts who don't have a clue on the inner workings of a network or how to properly upkeep systems. I have interviewed people with MCSE's, A+, CNA's, and CNE's that have no earthly idea how to administrate a network. That is indeed sad. Which is why I hire those that have not only real world experience, but have the education to back it up. Certifications come in 3rd on the list.
I fail to understand how someone, who knows exchange and IIS, don't know how the web works or how to tell a spoofed address apart from a real address. Maybe I get curious and learn how to do these things. Either that or you are biased, as you say. Which is fine, you aren't hiring for my company.
Gates has done wonders for the computer industry that is for sure. He has had nothing to do with the IT side. The people who think going out and getting certifications for high paying jobs are the people to blame. The people who have no real world experience but think they deserve that 90k a year job because they have a college degree are at fault. Getting a good paying job in IT requires not only constant learning, but a good base of education to start out in. No one wants to start out at the bottom anymore. I don't blame Gates at all for the IT job market it is today. That blame falls squarely on the people who make it look so terrible.
The point and click interface has made computers so much easier. It was the Apple that got that started actually. For the end users, to make learning computers easy was the best thing that could have happened. In my opinion, if we were still using DOS and Linux, Apple would have won out. Just my opinion though.
I agree with some of your points though so don't think I am bashing you. I enjoy spending the time exchanging ideas with another IT professional.
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| | | | | | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
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| Re: Zombies said by Nightfall:
IT Manager here as well, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to secure a Windows computer, even remotely.
Unfortunately what you can't configure against is the employee who has a jones for some sort of porn, or warez! All the technical forethought can be easily thwarted by one employee who just has to see that snatch, or download that game now and then. Windows has the biggest exploit window of any OS, mainly because of it's overwhelming popularity.
said by Nightfall:
We have about 20 users who telecommute. Everyone of them is in the office at least once a month. It is easy to set up updates to run on the systems automatically. I am not talking automatic update either. I run these from a custom login script program called Profile Maker by autoprof
Right! And it take all of 20 seconds of vulnerability to get zapped!
said by Nightfall:
The key is that Linux is no safer than Windows. It all comes down to administration.
Oh but it IS! There are 2 orders of magnitude fewer exploits/worms/viruses which can infect a linux box than a windows box. Windows is the pre-eminent OS in the world, and 99.99% of maleware is designed to attack it, meaning the same attention to patches makes you 2 orders of magnitude safer with Linux. I agree, that technically Linux may not be any more secure inherently; but if you look at your port traffic once in a while you will realize that there is a blizzard of systems attempting to exploit any un-patched windows box on your network.
I also do not want to spend all my time "securing" multiple systems, when there is really no need to. The shear number of new windows exploits is mushrooming daily, and it is almost impossible to totally control any users habits.... even a small time-slip can mean an infected machine. It's too expensive, time-consuming, and I would have less time for fishing
Bob
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| | | | | NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
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| Re: Zombies quote:
Unfortunately what you can't configure against is the employee who has a jones for some sort of porn, or warez! All the technical forethought can be easily thwarted by one employee who just has to see that snatch, or download that game now and then. Windows has the biggest exploit window of any OS, mainly because of it's overwhelming popularity.
No offense, but you don't know how to secure a windows platform very well. Think you can't secure a windows system from either of those two things? What if I was to tell you that in our office, we have zero porn and warez site usage? Zero spyware as well. It isn't that hard if you know what you are doing and have the right software and equipment.
quote:
Right! And it take all of 20 seconds of vulnerability to get zapped!
If you aren't patched, then that is a problem. However, patching is easy to do. Major service packs are doled out at the local office. Small packs are sent out remotely as well. So far, after 6 years of using this method, zero exploits and problems.
quote:
Oh but it IS! There are 2 orders of magnitude fewer exploits/worms/viruses which can infect a linux box than a windows box. Windows is the pre-eminent OS in the world, and 99.99% of maleware is designed to attack it, meaning the same attention to patches makes you 2 orders of magnitude safer with Linux. I agree, that technically Linux may not be any more secure inherently; but if you look at your port traffic once in a while you will realize that there is a blizzard of systems attempting to exploit any un-patched windows box on your network.
I am not denying your figures on the attacks. I am saying that it doesn't take hardly any time for me to support these windows boxes. The right admin can secure anything, and with the right technology, it becomes easier. What can be easier than patching 100 systems at one time using a custom GUI login script? You install a client firewall on 100 systems and the policy is doled out from one location and changed at any time. Man, there is a lot of capabilities out there that you don't have any idea about.
quote:
I also do not want to spend all my time "securing" multiple systems, when there is really no need to. The shear number of new windows exploits is mushrooming daily, and it is almost impossible to totally control any users habits.... even a small time-slip can mean an infected machine. It's too expensive, time-consuming, and I would have less time for fishing
I am sorry you feel that way. It is probably your misinformation about how to secure a bulk windows systems. As I said, 6 years here as a manager, no spyware, no exploits, no viruses. It isn't that hard with the right technology, an open mind, a just a little time. I spend more time educating my users than fixing windows problems.
I am sure we can both agree that, with the right administrator, anything is possible. I support 150 systems in my company with almost 200 users total. We have 95% windows systems, and as of yet, I am still learning on how to be as efficient with my linux systems as we are with the windows ones when it comes to updates, protection, and so on. Would a Linux admin have better ideas for me? You bet. However, I would also have to say that maybe, a linux admin would keep an open mind to us Windows admins who know what we are doing.
So while you fish and know you are secure, I will play hockey and feel the same way. We will let our track records speak for themselves. Just keep in mind not to discount us knowledgable windows admins and the capability of securing the windows platform. It isn't as hard as you think with the right admin and technology.
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| | | | | |  Greg_ZPremium
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Springfield, IL | Re: Zombies Nightfall, you could not of stated your facts any better.
No wonder that you have such a wide following.
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| | | | | | | |
|  Vchat20Landing is the REAL challengePremium
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Columbus, OH | well, i got to completely agree with Nightfall here. my cousin works for the Bank One HQ in Columbus Ohio as a Programmer. afaik (dont remember offhand), hes been there for atleast 5 years and is currently making $70k per year.
I went with him to work one day and all i saw was windows computers. every one of them i saw running windows 2k. only ones that were not running 2000 were the actual servers which were unseen and they were running Solaris iirc.
not only that, but to comment on wtansils post about not being allowed to use his own home broadband connection to VPN in: my cousin works from home occasionally. the one summer i was with him he worked from home about every other week. and every time he does hes always connected into his home connection with the work laptop.
may i also add in that his department works with big companies such as comcast? one email i remember reading while i was at his workplace was where he had to fix a few problems that comcast was having viewing the online statement. and he fixed it right there in front of me. although i had no clue what he was doing since he used nothing but telnet  but nonetheless, do you think that they want unsecured computers dealing in that kind of situation? very highly doubt it.
hope i got my point across there. windows can easily be secure as linux, you just need to have the patience to do the securing. | |
| | Greg_ZPremium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | said by mculbert:
Maybe it's more like the IT managers don't want their employee's virus ridden zombie email blasters on the corporate network.
I sure as hell don't.
No where in said articles does it even mention about computers spamming networks that are VPN'd to. What it comes down to is that there are officers and managers that come from the old School of thought of "A watched worker is a productive worker, an un-watched one is wasting company money!"
Get with it people, read the articles before jumping to conclusions, and also Telecommuniting is how most work is done nowdays, due to managers and sales people are rarely in their offices and are on the road, or traveling to job sites.
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| |  Ben CiscoEmbrace IntellectPremium
join:2001-12-13
Wormhole | The company I used to work for required company-supplied AV, firewall, and VPN app be used. Permission was given ONLY to those with a legitimate need to access from home. Never had any real problems with it in the two years I was there... | |
|
| | | | Re: Well It would be pretty sweet to work from home, but it's a lot harder to ensure that people are working =\
A huge portion of people, (I wouldn't go as far as to say the majority) will do as little as possible to keep their jobs | |
| | |
See 7 replies to this post |
 FutureMonIs voting for ObamaPremium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Long Beach, CA | Not just trust, but... It can also be said that if you are not seen in the office, your boss might have a harder time justifying your position when it's time for budgeting.
The perception at a lot of places is, if there is enough work to do, then they should be here doing it. At my place of work, there is someone who lives almost 90 miles away - and they refuse to allow her to telecommute - even though 90% of her job is on the phone doing support. Another person, a developer, is allowed to telecommute.
- FM
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| | army5
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Oklahoma City, OK | Re: Not just trust, but... said by FutureMon:
It can also be said that if you are not seen in the office, your boss might have a harder time justifying your position when it's time for budgeting.
The perception at a lot of places is, if there is enough work to do, then they should be here doing it. At my place of work, there is someone who lives almost 90 miles away - and they refuse to allow her to telecommute - even though 90% of her job is on the phone doing support. Another person, a developer, is allowed to telecommute.
- FM
I have to agree with you on this one. I have heard these same arguments from upper management with the company I work for.
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|
BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Yeah, and? This has been the story since well before the "telecommuting" term was coined.
Little has changed. VPN's are slightly easier to deploy, but managers are as scared as ever of losing control over their employees (and therefore over THEIR OWN jobs).
Saying that neglecting telecommutng costs businesses money is a bit weird; it's like saying that being stupid costs businesses money, or that not pursuing new markets costs businesses money, or that retaining loathed managers costs businesses money, or tha giving jobs to the President's niece costs the company money, or that creating a hostile workplace costs money, or that failing to train employees or listen to them costs businesses money.
It's all out of Business Consulting 101, and it doesn't change anything... Smart people run smart companies (or countries), and scared people run mediocre ones.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| King75King Of All And NothingPremium
join:2004-07-31
Stevensville, MD | Oh Please I know when my mom telecommutes that she isn't always doing work. Sometimes she just does nothing. On the other hand there are times when she takes conference calls at home when she isn't suppose to be working she checks her e-mail everyday including vacations and weekends so I guess in the end since verizon doesn't pay their managers OT that it is all fair. | |
| |  DataDocMy avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC
·Suddenlink
| Re: Oh Please said by King75:
I know when my mom telecommutes that she isn't always doing work. Sometimes she just does nothing...
Great job of outing your Mom! Once Verizon tracks her down using your post and member info, she really will be doing nothing. 
--
Strappin’ the ol’ yowza-pow milk truck to grampappy’s riverside wikka-wokka. | |
| | | King75King Of All And NothingPremium
join:2004-07-31
Stevensville, MD | Re: Oh Please Pfft. Like they care enough. Besides not to many people have a list of where every verizon employee lives. If HR gave that out to people my mom would never need to work again. And the only people who probably visit this forum are VOL employees which has nothing to do with what my mother does. Besides I don't think her boss really cares as he does it himself. | |
|
JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Gosh. How about checking their performance? If they're not actually working from home, they wouldn't be getting anything done, now would they? Perhaps these managers could actually do their jobs and actually gauge their employees performances instead of thinking irrationally. | |
|  amw5g
join:2001-06-14
Clermont, FL
 ·Embarq Now Centu..
| As I see it I've been a full-time telecommuter for over 3.5 years now. I worked for the employer in the office for about 2.5 years and then relocated quite far away. Since my move, I've gone through two new bosses- both of whom I've never met.
I do indeed feel that there is a belief that because I'm not seen, then my contribution to the company gets marginalized. Consider that the person I hired and trained and who has the exact same title as I do in the physical office makes more than I do. Consider that I've been told that since I work from home, I can "stick around" after hours on Fridays to clean up work that my counterpart didn't complete before he left. My belief is that I can't get away with not returning emails promptly and not answering my phone.
All that being said, they've kept me on this long without ever making an appearance so I must be doing something right. It's just a matter of how much paranoia is justified . | |
|  MusicscomPremium
join:2004-08-24
Washington, DC | How can I get one of those lazy butt jobs? This topic is so great; there's so much to add to it.
Telecommuting: [Dune]: working without laboring, travelling without moving, surfing the Internet without paying.
Aren't most of those "working at home on their computers" actually the managers?
And if that's true, they are not getting any work done, because they don't do any! They're just there to spy on everyone else. | |
| |  GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: How can I get one of those lazy butt jobs? My boss says that he thinks the work poduct isn't as good when working from home. He says, "even though you may be working just as hard and putting in the hours, I believe your work product suffers and isn't as high of quality as work done in the office."
My work seemed to get very high grades when I was working for a private firm and commuting 3 days a week.
All of a sudden I do crappier work on easier projects?
This thread nails it on the head. It's all a matter of trust and control. | |
|
TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| Productivity is the keyI telecommute, and find that I end up giving far more time to the job than I would otherwise give, if I had to show up at an office.
There are several reasons for this:
One, I feel that I have to constantly prove that I am working, and working well; so my output is up, and my communication with superiors is far better.
Two, I make better use of my time; get up in the morning, make coffee, and while awaiting that state of compus-mentus, I am clearing out my mailbox, and looking at the state of the network..... I may get out to the store at times, but find that I more than make up for it in the evening or on a rainy week-end day.
Finally, accountability, much of the work arrives in email or other electronic form, making it easier for all to know the state of the work completed and yet to be done.. this puts more pressure on the worker. How many times have I gotten up in the middle of the night and remembered something I promised to do and didn't... so, since there is no commute, I get it done, and go back to sleep.
Productivity can not be measured in terms of how much time one spends at ones desk! In fact, I have binged on jobs getting them done fast so I can "skate" on that Friday and go fishing, something I would not do if I had to be physically present! I can work 18-20 hours for 3 days, and have an easy 2 days, and all the time getting more done.
American businesses are for the most part Neanderthal when it comes to telecommuting (and most other worker-oriented issues), and are missing out on the most important benefits; productivity, worker loyalty, worker satisfaction and quality of life. You get far more work out of someone with honey than with salt; and a worker will bend over backwards to remain a telecommuter by putting out more and better work, while feeling better about their jobs and their life situation in general. Isn't that what technology is supposed to do??
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
| | | | Re: Productivity is the key said by TamaraB:
Productivity can not be measured in terms of how much time one spends at ones desk!
LoL, BINGO! | |
| | BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 |
Nicely said.
I didn't entirely believe it myself until I fell into the same trap, but MANY (most?) telecommuters tend to work harder and LONGER HOURS than their office-bound counterparts.
This is driven by a mix of guilt (at having a good deal), pride (at doing a great job), fear (at being thought a shirker), and convenience (at always being able to put in "just another few minutes" on a project staring back from the home office screen).
My only problem is I'm still loathe to actually take those Friday "skates" you mention, even after a few 18 hour days.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | | | | BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Re: Productivity is the key
I understand there are dish autotrackers for just this shipboard purpose, at least for satellite TV. Couldn't you just use DirecPC full-time and forget about the DSL and POTS (and ISDN)?
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: Productivity is the key said by B:
I understand there are dish autotrackers for just this shipboard purpose, at least for satellite TV. Couldn't you just use DirecPC full-time and forget about the DSL and POTS (and ISDN)?
-- B
Unfortunately Direct-PC requires an absolute stable dish. Any motion will cause loss of sat acquisition. A boat, especially a full-displacement trawler, tends to "roll" a lot! What is needed is a gyroscopicly stabilized platform holding the sat dish, like those made by KVH. Any motion of the dish (think about it, a 2 degree roll which is un-noticeabe to most mariners, will cause a 1,000 mile miss on an orbiting sat) causes a complete failure of sat-comms.
DirectPC does not offer a "mobile" service. The closest they offer is for truckers. The truck has to be stationary, and the dish will acquire the sat within 5 minutes.... this is for TV only... It don't work from a perpetually rolling deck :-(
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
|
| | bs Trust?? LoL If you have a job you should be accountable for the work you do. That is the way every telecommuter I know is managed in the REAL WORLD. They are held accountable! WTF is this bs about trust? Either you produce or you don't. Sitting on your ass doing nothing while telecommuting will get you fired just as quick as doing it at the office.
This just another example of BS theory incompetently thought up, employed and perpetuated through popular belief.... Incompetent fools should be executed for filling the world full of this crap logic. | |
| | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: bs Trust being the old "when the cat's away" mentality.
Even though results should speak for themselves, I think old fashioned bosses believe that even if you meet the numbers, you somehow are cheating them if you aren't sitting at your desk--even if you surfing porn or typing in responses to BBR threads. | |
| | | Reviews:
·Armstrong Zoom ..
| Re: bs I agree with what many here are saying. I could easily work at home, and do some hours, but something makes em feel cozy when I am sitting at my desk.
Trust is certainly the issue. Companies feel like they are being screwed because the employee is "absent" from the office. I personally get more done when I am "on the clock" at home than I do at work. Being in a more comfortable environment helps and strangely enough having flexibility seems to actually help with productivity instead of breaking it.
My job could completely be done from home yet the only reason I have to come into my office and sit at a desk is so a boss can see me there. My productivity cannot really be checked (nobody understands what I do anyway) so the company somehow feels like I am doing more when I am sitting at the desk. Someday I hope that will change, along with other companies. | |
| | | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| said by Goober:
Trust being the old "when the cat's away" mentality.
Even though results should speak for themselves, I think old fashioned bosses believe that even if you meet the numbers, you somehow are cheating them if you aren't sitting at your desk--even if you surfing porn or typing in responses to BBR threads.
And this is intelligent behavior on the part of management? It is as you say "old fashioned", not very bright however. If the US is going to compete in this new global economy, these "old fashioned" bosses need to retire or die off!
It's not that they think you are cheating them, it's a control-freak thing, and they play that game to the detriment of their company. See? I am typing a response to BBR right now, but it will not impact my day's work. Why? Because I am always at my desk! If a boss were to demand the amount of time I currently spend at my desk, but do so in an office, he would be arrested for slavery!
This is the one Down-Side of telecommuting, you give bad bosses far more than they deserve or pay for. THis is changing however, as these old-farts die off.
I have nothing against all old-farts mind you, I am one
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
| | | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Re: bs Well, old fart as in not progressive is how I assume you're meaning it. My dad's that way. I've tried to convince him otherwise, but he just doesn't go for it. And yet, I did very well for myself working in an environment where telecommuting was okay. Can't convince him. | |
|
FDM80
join:2001-07-16
Silver Spring, MD
1 edit | Productivity I used to work at a small data processing company. It was a small company of 6-7 people. 3 people (including myself) were on one side of the building doing the technical work, the actual processing of the data on computers/mainframes, etc. The other 3 people (secretary, driver, non-technical people) would watch soap operas on the little tv at the office every single afternoon. Doesn't matter where you are when you do work. It's more about the individual and if they are committed to really doing a good job. Not that I wouldn't love to be payed to essentially watch tv at the office, but I would be looked at funny when after working my ass off for 7 out of the 8 hours of the day making sure everything is done. If I work my butt off to the point that the last hour of the day I have nothing to do, I'd rather not be looked at cross eyed by the same people who spend 3 hours a day in front of the tv when I feel like leaving an hour early. For them it was all about being at the office for the designated time period. For me it was about doing as much work as possible without sacrificing quality of work, then maybe getting an extra 30 min head start on my commute.
Funny thing is you work to get a degree. You can get all the educational knowledge you would ever need. You can get a degree on just about any subject matter you've ever wanted. One thing you can't get a degree in is "how to know how to work". | |
| |  MichelBoltonI'M Planning To Plan
join:2001-10-24
Round Lake, IL | Re: Productivity Whooaa..very accurate. Its also a power issue. Managers and Capos want to be able see the minions they are presiding over. What a joke.
--
Republican Logic Fallacy #4: "Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to China and India. | |
| | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Ironically I do the same thing. When I am travelling between sites, I speed 10 or 15 mph over the limit on an hour ride it saves ya 10 min or so. And When I am at the site I don't take breaks or lunch at all. I get all my work done by 2:30 or so and have a nice cruise home till 4 or so and relax while getting paid till 5 It just makes life a hole hell of a lot easier to be able to pump out my work for the day and go home to relax then it is to be a stickler and sit there like a fool till 5 then try and commute home 2 hours in traffic.
Never had any complaints about quality of work so far.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Get back to work!! It's funny that we're all posting here during business hours isnt it | |
| | FDM80
join:2001-07-16
Silver Spring, MD | Re: Get back to work!! Haha, 5:06 PM EST on the post just up above baby! | |
|
 stev32kPremium
join:2000-04-27
Mobile, AL
kudos:1
 ·DIRECTV
·AT&T Southeast
·Mediacom
| Telecommuting works for me I own a small engineering company with 17 employees. All but two of them work from home. The guys are spread out all over the country from California to Chicago, and from Mobile, AL to Seattle, WA. We have worked with several engineering firms in Germany, Japan, and France on projects as large as $250 million and never had a problem with the quality of work or meeting schedule or budget.
As others have pointed out it's not what time you come to work and go home that's important, it's how effective you are while you are working. My experience is that managing a telecommuting work force is no different than a traditional central office work force. I believe that a person that cannot complete tasks at home will not complete them in an office. If they cannot do the work at home how could one expect them to do any better in the office?
The biggest issues we have faced are technology and reliably. The technology issues are related to specific individuals knowledge of computers and networking. The guys generally have a basic knowledge of computers, but things like routers, firewalls, networking, and security are new and there is a steep learning curve. The reliability issues are mainly ISP and power system related. It's rare week that someone does not lose power or their internet connection. | |
| |  korymGo Wisp'sExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA | Re: Telecommuting works for me Finally!! A business owner speaks and is pro-telecommuting.
Thx much for adding your input, Steve.
(and, no, I'm not being sarcastic; I mean it!)
Regards,
Kory
--
WISP & Wi-Fi Hotspot Industry News | |
|
| | Working Slave I own two small companies, and am an partner in a 3rd. Al of this is done virtually. My office consists of my laptop bag, cell phone via VOIP, and tmobile hotspots. They person who does some of my web design lives somewhere in Hong Kong, and another person lives somewhere in Wisconsin. We hired a lady who lives in Pittsburg to be our assistant and this is all done virutally, and other computing techiques. | |
| korymGo Wisp'sExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA | Gotta add my input too... I worked for a small logo design company where I commuted 80 miles one way for an hour and a half driving. Needless to say I'd get up at 5am to make it to work by 7am or so and wouldn't get home until 9pm (okay, I had a part-time job too ).
The funny thing is that the owner is from Pakistan and lives in Pakistan where most of his designers are telecommuting. I paid for a separate phone line (yeah, I'm broadband-deprived) including all the long-distance calls I made to clients out of my pocket. My monthly gas and tolls were about $500. When I asked to telecommute, I was told that I could for two days a week but I'd have to take a paycut. What could I do? There weren't any other jobs at the time so I took it.
Now, I'm working elsewhere (only a 30 minute commute through much of PA Dutch country) installing newspaper publishing software, making more money and am able to spend time with my family again. I'm doing much better.
Bottom line: telecommuting works only if upper management believes in it and doesn't make it hard on the telecommuter.
Just my two cents.
Regards,
Kory
--
WISP & Wi-Fi Hotspot Industry News | |
| | | - I work for a fairly conservative financial company where the corporate culture does not encourage telecommuting - to be honest, it's frowned upon.
The point haired ones believe that telecommuters are downloading pr0n or just jerking off (or both).
So even though I have 6000/768 ADSL, I don't telecommute.
It's not really a problem for me since my commute is only 8 minutes one way
I'm a software engineer so I could do my work at home without a problem but when it comes time to promotions and pay raises, the "pointy haired" ones will remember the times that I wasn't "at work". | |
| | | restrictions by a Fortune 500 company on VPN A friend of mine works for a very well known Fortune 500 company as a sales person working out of his home. His boss is on the other side of the country. He meets his performance goals and gets the maximum bonus every year. Yet, do they trust him?
Not really! His old company laptop started to die on him and the corp IT dept sent him a new laptop running Windows XP Pro. It's locked down so tight, he can't install the printer drivers for his own printer. His only printers that he can use are the printers 2500 miles away! Nothing he or his boss can do will change the corp IT dept's mind.
Part of this company is in DoD and other TS work, but his division is entirely civilian. I can understand the paranoia for the DoD side of the company, but there has to be some flexibility.
Also, he can't install any software, such as one that links Outlook to his company provided cell phone so that he can share phone numbers between devices. Talk about a waste of time keying in phone numbers twice. As a sales person, he has to keep track of hundreds on phone numbers and names.
I guess what I complaining about is the one size fits all mold, that the autocratic headquarters folks think will work in the field. If they actually tried to do a days work from their home, they'd realize that they need to trust their employees more and work with their employees. | |
| | vic102482Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: restrictions by a Fortune 500 company on VPN said by BullroarerT:
Part of this company is in DoD and other TS work, but his division is entirely civilian. I can understand the paranoia for the DoD side of the company, but there has to be some flexibility.
Also, he can't install any software, such as one that links Outlook to his company provided cell phone so that he can share phone numbers between devices. Talk about a waste of time keying in phone numbers twice. As a sales person, he has to keep track of hundreds on phone numbers and names.
Companies that do work with the DoD or really any government agencies have guidlines that they have to adhere to as far as IT and physical security. You cant just work for the DoD and be running win98 on all your machines.
Maybe that laptop is falling under that agreement, and thats why they refuse to budge.
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
| | | Ben CiscoEmbrace IntellectPremium
join:2001-12-13
Wormhole | Re: restrictions by a Fortune 500 company on VPN said by vic102482:
Companies that do work with the DoD or really any government agencies have guidlines that they have to adhere to as far as IT and physical security. You cant just work for the DoD and be running win98 on all your machines.
Maybe that laptop is falling under that agreement, and thats why they refuse to budge.
True enough, but no printer drivers when he's working 2500 MILES from the nearest printer? That's just common sense. They could at least install the drivers remotely if they felt the need for THAT much control...
--
Nobody's life, liberty, or property is safe while Congress is in session.
Badnarik 2004!
In Search Of...Firing Synapses
| |
|
| | Computer security for telecommuting As for the Linux thing, it wouldn't be that hard, as I threw Linux on an old 200mhz box and was up in the 5 hours it took to write to the 6GB disk. It then booted right up and I was online with my cable net connection. Not that I would use it for a company, as it may be hard for users to adapt to, but it is way more secure if only because there are not many linux machines out there, only a bunch of web servers.
As for locking machines down, I understand the need for control so that people do not put limewire on the computers, but they should allow people to put print drivers and firefox and stuff. They should just have a system where if someone wants to run an EXE they have to request permission from IT, or maybe have IT install things over VPN for them. | |
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