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Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Good Decision As much as I hate child pornography, the decision was the correct one. | |
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starstuff
Fly By Wire
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Mcallen, TX
| Re: Good Decision I have a solution... make every child under 15 wear a burka  | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
1 edit | Re: Good Decision nm | |
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| jhaas
join:2000-04-12
Coraopolis, PA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| as a PA resident, I agree... what many of the folks who have responded to this chain have missed is that this wasn't about LIBRARIES, it was about AOL and Earthlink and any other ISP serving PA customers being required to filter all internet content BEFORE it got to the respective destination... in effect, STATE MANDATED CENSORSHIP of all internet content. What was dressed up as an act to "protect children" was a blatant 1st Amendment violation and should never have been proposed in the first place.
ALL FILTERING AT THE LIBRARIES REMAINS INTACT.
Oh, may I remind them from WHERE our Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security came from?
And shall I also remind them that many of PA's public libraries are now only open 4 days a week due to a lack of funding? Or that those libraries are required to maintain the filters in order to keep what little funds they receive EVEN THOUGH REMOVING THE FILTERS WOULD SAVE THEM MUCH NEEDED FUNDS???
The internet was an off-shoot of a defense department project and was never intended for children. Unfortunately, most people think that surfing the web is a "safe" act akin to "watching TV" (sic), which is why their computers are drenched in "spyware" or turned into "spam zombies" and they have no idea how it happens. Some are so clueless, they think AOL "is" the internet.
Yet they probably let their children watch MTV or HBO or most other cable content totally unsupervised and think nothing of it... or buy them all the latest "let's kill everything that moves" video games for Christmas every year... and yet they claim "the evil internet" is the problem... wake up already.
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The sum of the Earth's intelligence is a Constant. Only the population increases. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Good Decision Probably true.
In our house we use internet content filters, V-chip supervision and buy only age appropriate games and movies. No reason for a child to grow up as fast as our society seems to push. | |
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EnzonE
join:2000-03-23
Indiana, PA | Re: PA Filter Law Unconstitutional Yeah how about they work on getting that $2 billion back Verizon shafted from us on the Fiber deal!
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Verizon 768k/128k @ 16,200 feet from CO.Activated June 13 2001.Now at 17,047 feet+ ! | |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
1 edit | What a relief. But... ... it apparently leaves intact the (Internet) censorship in effect at most libraries across the country. Appalling.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Re: What a relief. But... I like the filters at the library. Kids have unrestricted access to those computers and they should be filtered. If you want to see nudie pics do it at home. For other stuff such as legit research into say breast cancer usually all you have to do is let the librarian know and show proof of your age and they will allow sites to bypass the filters. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
1 edit | Re: What a relief. But... I'll second the support (FOR filters) on that one. | |
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| | C0unterfeit
join:2000-10-23
Lodi, NJ | So what should the age say to allow a "legit search?" | |
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bit_junkie
join:2004-05-04
Maricopa, AZ
| Re: What a relief. But... said by C0unterfeit  :
So what should the age say to allow a "legit search?"
well if you mean legit as in research for school projects and such for children, i think that should be left up to parents what is appropriate for their kids and at what age.
now if you mean legit as in a legal adult website, 18 or older,which i believe is the legal age in most of the country | |
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Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: What a relief. But... Agreed and I also thing for kids under 15 the parents should have to be present with the child. | |
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Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
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First, "kids" should not have unsupervised access to ANYTHING. The activities of children at a library should be monitored by their parents, guardians, AND/OR librarians.
Second, "nudie pics" have nothing to do with it -- only the truly creepy would surf for porn in a public library.
It has to do with little things like human rights, the first amendment, a free society, effective distribution of human knowledge, watching the watchers, unintended consequences, little things like that.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
| Re: What a relief. But... quote:
Second, "nudie pics" have nothing to do with it -- only the truly creepy would surf for porn in a public library.
I know this is off topic, but I was at my local kinko's a few weeks ago, there was this black guy sitting in the back of the computer area looking at porn... thought it was funny | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY | Re: What a relief. But... how do you know he was black? | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: What a relief. But... I would imagine from his skin color or hair texture. That's usually how people tell. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| said by B :
Second, "nudie pics" have nothing to do with it -- only the truly creepy would surf for porn in a public library.
Trust me, you'd be surprised.
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We don't report the news, WE ARE THE NEWS!-a friendly message from the media | |
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| | | | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| It might have nothing to do with "nudie pics" as you put it, but the library is a public place. Not everyone wants to look at what you think you should be able to see. If there is some thing that you really want to see that some might find offensive, do it at home. Not only does this keep any "lawsuits" from happening but it also helps keep down the spam and spyware if people canot run willy nilly all over the net. The computers are their computers, not yours. | |
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| | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: What a relief. But... said by jsouth :
It might have nothing to do with "nudie pics" as you put it, but the library is a public place. Not everyone wants to look at what you think you should be able to see. If there is some thing that you really want to see that some might find offensive, do it at home. Not only does this keep any "lawsuits" from happening but it also helps keep down the spam and spyware if people canot run willy nilly all over the net. The computers are their computers, not yours.
You're kidding, right? How long have you lived in this country? You are aware that ANYTHING you might want to read or view in a library is most likely offensive to SOMEONE somewhere, right? You're not honestly suggesting that the only things that should be available for viewing in a public library are those things that are offensive to NO ONE, are you? I guess you are: »www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/news/lo···2807.htm
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Re: What a relief. But... Offensive possibly but winnable in a court case no chance. That and keeping porn away from kids. Yes I do live with a library that censors the net. So what. if you are of age and it's not porn the librarians will open the site up all you have to do is ask. No problem. Also what do cds have to do with internet? Most people I know burn cds and give them to friends. | |
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| | | | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: What a relief. But...
Please remember that I'm not drawing a distinction among books, Internet, CD's, magazines, filmstrips, or any other library resources. Though I certainly don't think Internet access should be policed more heavily than the contents of the shelves (though it seems to be in many cases).
My point is that there is PLENTY of stuff in a public library that might be objectionable to someone. Books have been banned and burned for far too long. (I certainly don't want to rehash Twain and Vonnegut and Steinbeck and Salinger et al. here.) New media is not really very different (not that I particularly appreciate most new music or most movies or web sites, but that's the point too!).
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: What a relief. But... My point is that they are not censoring anything. The filters just keep things that children should not see out of their reach. Anything an adult wants with the exception of porn are there for the asking. All you have to do is ask. | |
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Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: What a relief. But... said by jsouth :
My point is that they are not censoring anything.
I'm sorry, but you're just not seeing it -- of COURSE they're censoring -- you just said so! They're censoring much of the Internet for children ("things that children should not see", whatever those are -- as defined by the censorware companies, I assume), and they are also apparently permanently censoring all "porn"ography!
Not to mention that having to ask permission to use unencumbered access is a bit intrusive and embarrassing, kind of like doing price checks on condoms over the store loudspeaker.
I'm not saying libraries shouldn't be selective, or that Hott Wett Slutz 2005 should be on the magazine rack, I'm just trying to define the discussion better.
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: What a relief. But...
I think the simple act of a dour librarian standing over your shoulder should be more than enough to keep both children and perverts in line. It's not as if the public computer terminals sit in little phone booths with shades.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Re: What a relief. But... I dunno, some of those librarians can be pretty hot...
-tom | |
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| | | | Desdinova
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD
| In the U.S. anyone at any age can legally see an R-rated movie if the theatre management wants to admit them. Movie ratings (except those containg pornographic content) are guidelines suggested by a civilian organization (the MPAA) that has no legal authority. | |
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| | ReneMH
join:2001-11-27
Cockeysville, MD | You have to be of legal age to research brest cancer ? | |
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| | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
1 edit | Re: What a relief. But... Effectively, yes! The point is that no filter can ever perform with 100% (or even 90%) accuracy in blocking all possibly "objectionable" material but ALSO allow reasonable access to the sum of human knowledge.
This also subtly penalizes those already least privileged -- those resorting to the library for Internet access.
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| | | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | No. It's just easier to keep nudie pics away from the kids that just want to see them and tell the librarian they are doing "research". | |
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winky
Turn Left At The Moon
join:2001-02-11
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | Check your package at the door please... It's not like we're talking about free speech here as far as the library filter system goes. That's tax dollars. If you want to take it further, take a vote and see how many taxpayers want their money to allow the local library to become a pornfest. If you don't have access at home, I guess you'll just have to buy porn like in the old days. As far as filtering the internet in general by anyone, I say HANDS OFF. If you want to stop child pornography, and who wouldn't, shut down the source. Until something other than filters (which are horribly lame) come about you'll have to do it the old fashioned way; shut down sites, sanction governments that protect them, follow the money. Don't try to pass off a half-a** attempt that screws everyone in order to please a few and makes it look like you're the good guy.
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL
| Re: Check your package at the door please... I agree that you shouldn't be looking at porn at the library. THe problem is that the filters at my school filters out free web hosts. There was even a problem with it blocking webpages that techers had hosted at places like angelfire. Also, the waybackwhenmachine is blocked because it's a "loophole". | |
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Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: Check your package at the door please... Then talk to the webmaster. If you need it to do school work I'm sure they could open the filter to them. | |
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL
| Re: Check your package at the door please... said by jsouth :
Then talk to the webmaster. If you need it to do school work I'm sure they could open the filter to them.
I would if it was worth it. The computers at my school, are locked down so well that it's not even worth it. The context menus are disabled when veiwing folders. And I can never connect to my own ftp server. Veiwing the source of a web page isn't allowed either.
Usually when students are using a computer, there is a techer or other staff watching. I'd never get away with looking porn. | |
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Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: Check your package at the door please... Well they are the schools computers. If your not using them for school stuff then too bad. | |
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ced06
join:2004-03-12
Towanda, PA | PA sucks! Just another fact re-enforcing my opinion that Pennsylvania is teh biggest shithole in the United States of America. | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
1 edit | Re: PA sucks! zippy | |
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | actually, that would be elizabeth new jersey. but thanx to verizons false promises, the broadband situation in pa pretty much suck-diddly-ucks.
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| | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| Re: PA sucks! said by xdeadhead :
actually, that would be elizabeth new jersey.
You are correct, sir!
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
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viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
 ·Bright House
| ACLU? what do you expect As much as I am for right to free speech, I am all for porn filters for kids at libraries. Libraries are there to read and learn not to be a smut house. Schools are hooked to the internet, they use filters, is the ACLU going to say that's unconstitutional also??????????
Porn sites are legitimate, it's what we find objectional for small kids. Filters aren't perfect but the intent is there. If the filter was blocking a wrong site then the filter should be adjusted accordingly but the whole law should not be struck down because of it.
We want to keep our kids safe but when the tools are taken away to keep them safe, what does that say about our society? Trying to hunt down sites that prey on kids takes time and money but does not solve problem right now. Anyways if the state were to try and shutdown websites prying on kids you'll just have the ACLU front and center saying it's unconstitutional.
The ACLU doesn't help society, they are around for self interest. I'm sorry but I don't want my 9 year old looking at smut or anything I find objectional at a library cause the ACLU says she can. | |
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| claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA
| Re: ACLU? what do you expect said by viperpa33s :
The ACLU doesn't help society, they are around for self interest. I'm sorry but I don't want my 9 year old looking at smut or anything I find objectional at a library cause the ACLU says she can.
Without the ACLU there is a good chance you would not have been able to post this inane statement and there is a good chance that we might not be able to read it, because someone might find it unpleasant or disturbing. May I suggest that you study the citizenship exam immigrants have to take to qualify for naturalization as US citizens; you might learn a thing or two about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. | |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: ACLU? what do you expect I sincerely doubt that the founding fathers would have approved of pornography in public establishments as falling under the umbrella of free speech.
Remember, free speech is not absolute. | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| Re: ACLU? what do you expect I agree but I don't want one single individual from the current administration deciding what is appropriate and what isn't. remember Ashcroft is so ashamed to have a penis he can't look at marble statues that are partially nude so he covers them with curtains. if this man feels shame from looking at a statue than this man should decide nothing. my morality is my business. by the way I don't think libraries should have porn. | |
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| davidnix71
join:2003-06-17
Fort Lauderdale, FL
| Adjusting the filters isn't as easy as it sounds. There are too many ISPs grouping users under blocks of public addys(like AOL). If you block the addy, you block everyone there. If IPV6 is implemented and every device and user gets its own ip, then that would be alot easier to do. | |
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viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
| Excuse me? said by claudeo:
Without the ACLU there is a good chance you would not have been able to post this inane statement and there is a good chance that we might not be able to read it, because someone might find it unpleasant or disturbing. May I suggest that you study the citizenship exam immigrants have to take to qualify for naturalization as US citizens; you might learn a thing or two about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
When the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written we had no ACLU and we did just fine. The people were able to speak out with no reprisals. Sure we had some bumps but doesn't any society? Without the ACLU, my right to still speak out is still there. I still have the right to post this without the ACLU or the government hanging over my shoulder.
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights was created to give the people of the United States certain rights and liberties that was not granted under British rule at that time. Our founding fathers wanted to create a more free society but also protect society at the same time.
The PA law in now way takes liberties away. It merely protects the innocent that can't protect themselves as in this case, children. Most kids don't even understand between right and wrong. We have an obligation as parents and law abiding citizens to protect the kids from people who take advantage of that innocence.
The law does not take the rights away from adults. Like I said the filters could have easily been fixed without striking down the whole law. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights was not meant for kids to be subjected to smut. | |
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| rboe18
join:2004-05-19
Everett, WA | screw the aclu ACLU are a bunch of dirty lobbyists. Read up on 'everything' they support and oppose. It would seem they have their own list of 'civil-liberties'. | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: screw the aclu said by rboe18 :
ACLU are a bunch of dirty lobbyists. Read up on 'everything' they support and oppose. It would seem they have their own list of 'civil-liberties'.
It would seem you don't know what you're talking about.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: Excuse me? Really? We did just fine? Native Americans were two fifths of a person, white people could own black people, and women couldn't vote. Yeah I guess you're right, we "did just fine" back when the constitution was written! You could be jailed for speaking out against the government. Look up the sedition act, then come back here and say we don't need the ACLU.
Of course you're just sore because you're a typical ACLU-hater, this isn't about civil liberties at all.. it's about "under God" and public religion and (heavens no) defending NAMBLA's right to free speech.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
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sumo
I Love Dubs
join:2001-07-18
Old Forge, PA
clubs:
| "We have an obligation as parents and law abiding citizens to protect the kids from people who take advantage of that innocence."
I think this statement says it best. The keywords here are PARENTS and LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. In no way does that say GOVERNMENT is responsible for protecting our kids. I don't want MY government dictating to me what is right and wrong. Each of us have our own morals, religions, etc., and should be responsible enough to teach our kids right from wrong. If that requires a parent or guardian be present at all times during usage of the Internet, then so be it.
The problem is, most parents these days are too lazy or too busy with other "important" things, that they want others to take on their parenting responsibilities. So then, lame blanket laws like the one shot down are created to do the parenting without the real parents or guardians having to think about it. In the mean time, it takes away our freedoms and forces the ACLU to get involved.
No, I don't like the fact that there are sicko's out there offering child pornography, nor do I want my children accessing pornography, hate sites, etc. However, *I* want to make that choice as a parent. | |
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DonoftheDead
Premium
join:2004-07-12
USofA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Free Speech When I was in Oregon the libraries didn't filter the internet but the librarians paid attention to what people were looking at.( There's limited rights of privacy in public places.) That's how a paedophile was banned from the library. Then some friends and I exposed him for what he was and he had to leave town.(he was warned about being used for a boat anchor) Then it turned out there were 2 cops that were perverts and a judge. We got rid of the 2 cops, but the judge is still on the bench, so I moved before I lost it and went after him, too. The aclu has an agenda like all organizations, but I'm glad they're around. I'll fight them when they're wrong, and back them up when they're right. Let the parents watch out for the kids and give librarians the authority to monitor what people are using the computers for. It's a public place and you can't reasonably expect enough privacy to jerk off in a library or download instructions for making weapons of mass destruction. Screw the censorship and go after the ones that are abusing their rights, and ours in the process. | |
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PA Filter Law Unconstitutional
