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alien9999999
Your Head Looks Nice
Premium
join:2002-05-21
B-3000
| Re: The way I see it... this might be seen as an attack on their network, you better not do that, if you come across one, go to their house and ring the doorbell or something... do it in person, and don't use their network, you don't want to be seen as a hacker...
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Alien is my name and headbiting is my game. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: The way I see it... said by alien9999999  :
this might be seen as an attack on their network, you better not do that, if you come across one, go to their house and ring the doorbell or something... do it in person, and don't use their network, you don't want to be seen as a hacker...
How is netsending on an open connection hacking? Thats like calling that guy using the wifi connection outside the library a hacker. I hardly call it illegal if your computer automatically connects to someones wifi router because they didn't give it any security, if anything sue microsoft because their software will automatically connect you. Its the OS doing your hacking, not the user. | |
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| | | Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC
| said by alien9999999 :
this might be seen as an attack on their network, you better not do that, if you come across one, go to their house and ring the doorbell or something... do it in person, and don't use their network, you don't want to be seen as a hacker...
That option is next to impossible in an Apartment Complex. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: The way I see it... No Good Deed goes Unpunished.
I would say just leave it alone. | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| said by xmrocks :
Is if you are technology-saavy enough to setup or own a Wi-Fi hotspot, then you *should* know the risks of the leaving the hotspot open to anyone who sees it.
Problem is its so easy to set this crap up now you don't have to learn exactly what you are doing. No one wants to learn how and what they are doing, they rather plug it in and leave it alone.
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some people believe in astrology others believe in technology some people believe in all those -ologies but i believe in swordfish | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: The way I see it... said by 72276539 :
said by xmrocks :
Is if you are technology-saavy enough to setup or own a Wi-Fi hotspot, then you *should* know the risks of the leaving the hotspot open to anyone who sees it.
Problem is its so easy to set this crap up now you don't have to learn exactly what you are doing. No one wants to learn how and what they are doing, they rather plug it in and leave it alone.
That is exactly the problem. I feel sick when I see them handing these things out like candy at the local bigbox, marketing them and such as being "totally secure". Yeah, they are, if you aren't totally stupid when you set it up. 
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Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
1 edit | Don't get involved This is really a situation where it's best not to involve yourself. At best, you fix one of a huge number of unsecured hotspots. At worst, you get brought up on hacking charges. All it takes is one paranoid homeowner to call the police and have you arrested for attacking their network. Unless you really care about being a good samaritan (and aren't there far better causes to spend your time helping?), it's best to just not get involved at all.
And if you discovered the hotspot wardriving, don't even think about letting the owner know. Even if you're well-intentioned, you're still probably confessing to a crime.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
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atangel
Now What??
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Bronx, NY
| Re: Don't get involved I always thought "no." Mostly the same reasons.
1) Since they aren't savvy enough to lock themselves down they'll think you are hacking them (how did you know??)
2) Sometimes I think yes, but I remember 1 above.
There are 5 unsecured APs I can see from my living room. Too weak to connect though. My own wireless router is locked down and broadcast is disabled.
Then there is the Internet cafe/computer repair shop across the street from me. It has an unsecured AP that I can see from my house an access from my stoop. How savvy is that?
--
The reason you think I'm way on the left is 'cause you're so far to the right.
Dell Dimension, XP Pro, 2.4 Ghz, 512MB, BEFSX41, ZAP 5, NOD32, BOClean, a2, Adaware, Spybot, MW Pro, The Bat! | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs: | Re: Don't get involved I think it's fine for an Internet cafe to have an unsecured AP. If they provide free access to people, what's the difference if they use authentication?
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
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atangel
Now What??
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Bronx, NY
| Re: Don't get involved I forget to mention, they charge you for using their machines (wired). There isn't supposed to be anything free about that place!!!
No I can only guess that they think everyone in the 'nabe is an idiot (or maybe they are????)
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The reason you think I'm way on the left is 'cause you're so far to the right.
Dell Dimension, XP Pro, 2.4 Ghz, 512MB, BEFSX41, ZAP 5, NOD32, BOClean, a2, Adaware, Spybot, MW Pro, The Bat! | |
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File Quit
Mac Geek
Premium
join:2002-11-28
| I would!!! Since I do an on the side consulting business setting up networks, repairing computers and building them, then finding unsecure networks and notifying people would benefit me and the other person with the unsecured network. more $$$ for me and security for them so they dont have people snooping data.
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Mozilla Firefox. Switch today to rid yourself of IE and its flaws. »www.mozilla.org/firefox | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I would!!! said by File Quit :
Since I do an on the side consulting business setting up networks, repairing computers and building them, then finding unsecure networks and notifying people would benefit me and the other person with the unsecured network. more $$$ for me and security for them so they dont have people snooping data.
Careful or they might think you are trying to extort them. Gimme money or your network is mine.  | |
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| | Davvg69
join:2004-08-30
Loveland, CO | Re: I would!!! Careful or they might think you are trying to extort them. Gimme money or your network is mine.
\\\Isn't that how network admins work anyways? if you don't give them money they don't secure your network...it's a common business practice | |
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Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO
| Re: I would!!! said by Davvg69 :
Careful or they might think you are trying to extort them. Gimme money or your network is mine.
\\\Isn't that how network admins work anyways? if you don't give them money they don't secure your network...it's a common business practice
Don't pay me, I won't do a thing for you. Why is that wrong?
Dogg
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"Nope. Can't do that in a sig. Remove it, please." | |
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| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I would!!! Think about it this way:
You get a note on your home door stating, "Hi there, i noticed your front door was left unlocked so I took the liberty of coming in and giving you a free security survey. For only $20/month, I can make sure this type of break-in never happens to you." It's like a major invasion of privacy and most non-geek types would take the same offence if you went into their router/network. | |
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| | | | | damox
Premium
join:2002-01-07
Olympia, WA
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: I would!!! LOL! Yeah I see your point! It is considered breaking and entering in my state if you enter a residence without permission, even if the door is wide open! However, if I pick up a signal for a wireless network, and happen to click on the icon out of curiosity, that is not exactly the same thing!
I actually had a situation like that once when I was on DSL (not wireless). One day I clicked on network neighborhood and there were all of these networks. I tried almost every computer, and everything was wide open! I think there was only one computer that was secured. They had something like 12 computers. I fished around until I found a letterhead with a phone number. Then I called them to let them know! The guy I spoke with asked how I got their phone number, and I told him. At first there was dead silence, and I started apologizing, but I explained that I only fished around so I could alert them of the problem. I also offered my services, but the gentleman sort of brushed it off. I think they were planning to get one of their members to work on it. In the end I think he realized I was doing them a favor.
If I were to come across an unsecured network, I would let them know in a heartbeat! I guess I'd take the risk that someone might think I was hacking!
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DAMOX Proud to be a member of Team Discovery | |
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| | | | | Davvg69
join:2004-08-30
Loveland, CO | I completely see your point. But at the same time, going into someone's home is completely different. Your comparison is like comparing a 747 to a Matchbox Plane. | |
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| | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I would!!! Not really.
If you found out someone went into your home, you feel violated. Same thing if someone enters your car.
For most non geeks, the feeling would be the same way if people found someone was in their supposedly secure network that they do not know how to lock down. | |
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averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ | Open hotspots I have 3 neighbors with open WAP's.
I have spoke with all 3. They each say "I have nothing anyone would want". Obviously missing the point totally.
I am good and do not leach off their internet access, but what about roaming spammers? | |
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fire100_old
Premium
join:2002-08-09
Michigan
clubs:
| Re: Open hotspots said by averagedude :
I have 3 neighbors with open WAP's.
I have spoke with all 3. They each say "I have nothing anyone would want". Obviously missing the point totally.
I am good and do not leach off their internet access, but what about roaming spammers?
They may not care now, but when someone drives by to download a ton of music, and file share with their connection, and they get a letter from RIAA, they may then.
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My Weather Page | |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA | You're right, they just don't know they having something someone would want...namely their connection. | |
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outspoken72
An Irish Jayhawk
Premium
join:2000-10-03 | Re: my personal favorite I have done the same many times. Or if they had pics in their "My pics" folder, have printed the pic with a message. | |
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI | 'Sir, Your Hotspot is Open' Kudos to the copy editor, great headline! | |
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B777300
join:2002-01-02 | Depends Some people would like it and thank you for it while some i guess can tell you its non of your bussines.
just my 2 cents.
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Can you say fiber optics? | |
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jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13 | No Good Deed will go Unpunished Therefore, I suggest saying nothing. | |
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NoelC
D S L R Bliss
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-03
Florida | Bravo! quote:
No Good Deed will go Unpunished
The most sage advice I have seen in a very long time.
-Noel | |
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-Bob-
@qwest.net
| #1 Rule of Wardriving Don't ask, don't tell, don't question. I remember when I did tell an employee at a certain restaurant about their access. Didn't even know what I was talking about, but I'm sure the boss was notified.
Even if you do tell them, you might just be wasting your time. This was my mistake. The hotspot is still unsecured, but now I get the feeling someone is always watching me.
It's like they want to secure it, but don't know how. | |
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Nam Vet
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Allentown, PA | Hell no I read, not too long ago, someone being arrested for doing that!
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There's No Place Like 127. 0. 0. 1 | |
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djtim21
It's all good
Premium
join:2003-12-22
Buffalo Grove, IL
clubs:
| Re: Hell no This is a funny subject, as just the other day - I too was having issues with my Wifi. My router is locked down with wep/mac addressing & SSID off. So, I rebooted the router, But in the meantime, I was still able to surf. Found out one of my neighbors had a open router. It was a netgear, I tried the defaults and guess what - I'm in. It was set to the same channel as mine, So as a favor, I locked it down for him. (also changed the channel so that it wouldn't inner fear with my router.)
I didn't change the password on the router, but I turned of SSID put WEP on and Mac, as soon as I enabled the MAC, It disconnect me. Hopefully this will stop other people from getting in, but the owner will still be able to change anything on there.
I've only done this once. This is how I was a good neighbor - Just like State Farm  | |
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| | raythompsontn
join:2001-01-11
Oliver Springs, TN
| Re: Hell no said by djtim21 :
(also changed the channel so that it wouldn't inner fear with my router.)
I doubt your router or your neighbors router has any such emotions such as FEAR, especially INNER FEAR.
Interfere would have been a much better choice. | |
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| | sasquatch55
join:2004-01-26
Seneca, MO
| The biggest problem with changing your neighbors channel, is now he has no service from his router either, *unless* you also advised him of the change and set up his wireless pc card to accept from the new channel.
You weren't doing him any favors.:( | |
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| | Liquid Panic
join:2002-08-25
Hollywood, FL
| More than likely, when you enabled MAC filtering and it disconnected you.. it probably disconnected him too unless you put in his MAC address on the Allow list..
I wonder if he has been pulling his hair out trying to figure out whats going on...
-LP | |
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SlickEnW
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Seattle, WA
clubs: | Yea, as much as i would like to help the tons of noobies around my hood with their wi-fi its best i stay out if it and let them deal with it, they won't let me do anything about it anyway :P. | |
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| Galvage
join:2004-02-11
Taconite, MN
| Re: I'm not sure They could be like me in that they purposely leave the hotspot open.
I myself use open hotspots all the time for getting the research I need for class. I only feel that I should return the favor to those who might also need it. Of course my open hotspot is also secluded inside of a wired router so its an entity of a network by itself as not to interfere with the security I have setup. | |
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| | | mAlfunkti0n
join:2003-12-16
Loveland, OH | Re: I'm not sure Im all for being nice at times .. but you know what, If I dont know them, I dont care. Its too much of a risk to just be a nice guy .. espically if they are idiots who think your just trying to break something or get money out of them. | |
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| | | | xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs: | Re: I'm not sure That is very true. | |
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Brinic Ash
join:2004-08-30
Newbury Park, CA |  i've gotta question.
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pipdipchip
8 Megabits A Second
Premium
join:2003-12-04
Hanover, MN
| Most People Don't Care From my own experiences, most people just don't care. A friend of mine across the street has an open WAP and I told him. He said he only has one laptop that he doesn't use much so I could go ahead and use it. I still use my own but it's a nice back up. It's kind of that "Human Knowledge Belongs to All" thing. Some people like to share their internet with people. | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Why tell when you can frame? Own a machine on their net, set it up to upload hacked firmware. When it reboots, log in and change the channel to 14, change the password, and crank the power way up. When the federales come to investigate, laugh.
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11337845
Live free or die
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA
1 edit |  Well.....
I changed the SSID to "I Feel Like Chicken Tonight" and was able to garner their email address because they used PPPoE DSL, and it was in their router config.
I sent them an email telling them who I was and that their router was insecure, and at the very least they should enable WEP. I also offered my assistance if they needed it.
I never got a reply, but they did enable WEP, though they still broadcast their SSID. | |
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BT_Guy
join:2003-06-17
Behind You
clubs:
| War Chalk it Personal I would warchalk it, and let the poor sap figure it out for themsleves, after all if they are going to use wireless they should research on how to secure it
»www.blackbeltjones.com/warchalki···_07.html
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If you dont like Microsoft, then dont use it and stop complaining, there are other operating systems out there. | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: War Chalk it I have never, in my life, seen actual warchalking. Although sometimes the symbols are adopted by people running free access points such as universities and coffee shops, I've never seen actual graffiti marking an unsecured hotspot.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
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BT_Guy
join:2003-06-17
Behind You
clubs:
| Re: War Chalk it said by Rhobite :
I have never, in my life, seen actual warchalking. Although sometimes the symbols are adopted by people running free access points such as universities and coffee shops, I've never seen actual graffiti marking an unsecured hotspot.
its not always in an obvious place. it could be a couple of blocks from the actual hotspot with directions on where it is or very small (size of a hand) if you don't know what you are looking for they could be assumed to be random graffiti.
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If you dont like Microsoft, then dont use it and stop complaining, there are other operating systems out there. | |
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | I've seen it in the Seattle Airport, on a sign saying that there was an internet cafe nearby. | |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
 ·Teliax VOIP
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| Secure It Just do it yourself. I know a "friend" that would find open access points around his home that would interfere with his. So he would log into the router, change the frequency it operates on. This would at least improve performance of "his" network.
Then secure the access point. Send instructions to the shared printer on how to access the network once again with the SSID, WEP keys etc and how to get it enable on the PC. You can also, sometimes, leave something on there desktop with instructions as well. Many people with XP do not have a password for the admin account because they trust everyone in there home, right?
It is easy to figure out the router model and default password (which if they did not enable WEP the password is probably still the default). In many cases the model number is in the authentication scheme.
Yes, you accesses an open network, changed a few things, and secured there network. A couple minutes of your time and the world is a better place. You really did not damage anything, just made them aware and informed them how to stop such things from happening again. | |
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SqueeksDad
I Miss Her
Premium
join:2002-09-14
Hyattsville, MD
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Secure It said by keyboard5684 :
So he would log into the router, change the frequency it operates on. This would at least improve performance of "his" network.
Then secure the access point. Send instructions to the shared printer on how to access the network once again with the SSID, WEP keys etc and how to get it enable on the PC. You can also, sometimes, leave something on there desktop with instructions as well. Many people with XP do not have a password for the admin account because they trust everyone in there home, right?
It is easy to figure out the router model and default password (which if they did not enable WEP the password is probably still the default). In many cases the model number is in the authentication scheme.
Yes, you accesses an open network, changed a few things, and secured there network. A couple minutes of your time and the world is a better place. You really did not damage anything, just made them aware and informed them how to stop such things from happening again.
Hey Mister Neighbor!
You left your front door (network) open, so I just took it upon myself to come in and rearrange the furniture (settings/channel) and while I was at it I changed your locks (WEP). Call the hardware store and they can provide you with the new keys, here is the code XXXX
I am quite sure that you appreciate me wandering around in your home and will thank me for this.
Friendly Neighborhood Net Man.
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If a cow laughs hard, does milk come out its nose? | |
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| | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA | Re: Secure It My furniture was not on your lawn, if it was could you rearrange it?
If I left my door open with my stereo blaring would you walk over and close it? | |
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richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
| I'm a couple minds about this First, leave them alone, let them learn the hard way. Several people have posted 'I have nothing to hide' or 'I'm not using my connection much, go ahead' or just 'so what'. I have gotten reactions similar myself. On the other hand, someone local I knew was setting up wireless and after a while I asked him was it secured or open - a 'hot spot'. I got this belligerent reaction, how did I know, what files had I taken - ending with a legal threat! I hastily assured this person that I didn't even HAVE wireless [a lie:(], I worked in IT and was trying to be helpful.
So on one hand, let them learn the hard way.
On the other hand, be a good neighbor and get threatened .
I'm sure what I encountered was an extreme case, most people would shrug it off & a very few might ask you for help in securing their wi-fi device, but it just goes to show you what can happen.
BTW, don't good guys finish last, anyhow? | |
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| cghh
join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA
| Re: I'm a couple minds about this Just wondering, if someone accesses an open residential WiFi network and does something illegal (child porn, discusses a proposed terrorist act, etc), is the owner liable? Of course, that is after the authorities smash down the front door, confiscate the computers, and haul the owner off to jail in cuffs in front of a bunch of reporters. | |
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richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
| Re: I'm a couple minds about this Good Question
Going by what the courts decided when the RIAA sued someone they said downloaded hundreds of songs but the owner of the computer said they used it only for e-mail, their grandchildren used the internet, I would say the owner of the connection is liable. | |
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'Sir, Your Hotspot is Open'
