 
loserhead
3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA
| THe Blame Game well we might as well just get to it and start blaming the usual suspects:
George Bush (Daddy AND Dubya)
George Tenet
Micro$oft
Lindows (Linspire)
Osama bin Laden
Saddam Hussien
and of course:
ME (--AA--, dontshare, d0n7-5har3)
it's always my fault if they didnt do it.
just because it wasnt your fault doesnt mean they wont blame you. That goes for both of you, Vonage and Global Crossing.
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read my blog here | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Re: THe Blame Game said by loserhead  :
well we might as well just get to it and start blaming the usual suspects:
George Bush (Daddy AND Dubya)
George Tenet
Micro$oft
Lindows (Linspire)
Osama bin Laden
Saddam Hussien
and of course:
ME (--AA--, dontshare, d0n7-5har3)
it's always my fault if they didnt do it.
just because it wasnt your fault doesnt mean they wont blame you. That goes for both of you, Vonage and Global Crossing.
You forgot the telco's which are creating the outages to keep VOIP down.
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some people believe in astrology others believe in technology some people believe in all those -ologies but i believe in swordfish | |
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loserhead
3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA | Re: THe Blame Game very very true.
but you can lump them in with the terrorists and bush if you want to.
--AA--
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read my blog here | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Yeah, 'cause we all know the telco's are running around declaring jihad and trying to destroy America. And they have the support of Bush too.
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some people believe in astrology others believe in technology some people believe in all those -ologies but i believe in swordfish | |
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loserhead
3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA
| Re: THe Blame Game well put.
no i just meant that they all have their own agendas and are willing to do what is needed in order to achieve them.
AGENDAS:
Bush : World Domination/Oil
Bin Laden : World Domination/Oil/Death to American Pig-Dogs
Telcos : World Domination/$$$$$
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well, at least they dont want oil
--AA--
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read my blog here | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA | Actually they might so they can fuel their backup generators. | |
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loserhead
3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA
| Re: THe Blame Game so then the conspiracy includes:
Terrorists
Bu5h
telcos
the weather channel
barney
&
bi11 gate5
right? or am i missing any?
--AA--
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read my blog here | |
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stickside
join:2000-11-10
Worcester, MA
| Re: THe Blame Game said by Toguro :
And lets not forget Bert »www.bertisevil.tv/
That is one of the funniest freaking sites I've ever seen. ROFLMFAO!! | |
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magicalone
@comcast.net
 from:
pnh102
| Vonage's blame game Vonage needs to take responsibility for their own services, blaming a carrier for their routing just shows imcompetance and/or mismanagement within Vonage. Service Providers like Vonage need to have at least 3 carriers if not also having globally diverse datacenters that work together with each other to make sure quality of service is what it needs to be. Also, if Vonage were diverse enough to have multiple carriers and be running BGPv4 with its' upstream carriers then they could have just simply shut one of them off until a maintance window when it would have been least noticeable to end users to correct the problem(s). | |
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cob_
1310nm Of Goodness
Premium
join:2003-07-08
Tulsa, OK | Re: Vonage's blame game Tracerts have shown that they are multihomed with Wiltel and others besides GLBX. This is an unacceptable excuse for THEIR outage. | |
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| rationale
join:2004-07-27
30323 | I think the concept of 'start-up company' is escaping you. While you advice is good, I bet most start-up companies ran into trouble along the way to becoming big.
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When logic fails. | |
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magicalone
@comcast.net
from:
pnh102
| Re: Vonage's blame game I don't think Vonage can qualify as a "start-up" anymore, since they only have ~150-200,000 customers; I can see a company with under 5-10,000 users having some small issues, but with those numbers times say 29.00 (subtracting for regulatory fees) that still comes up to be a huge number and yes I do reconize the costs associated with running a network of Vonage's size. Network Engineering and Security should be on the top of their priority list; especially since this is not their 1st outage in the last couple of months. | |
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| | | bp5138
Premium
join:2004-08-08
Plano, TX
| Re: Vonage's blame game FYI - Vonage is still losing money. They originally raised $100 million when they started the company and now need an additional $100 million to get back to break-even. They are losing customers monthly due to their quality problems. You are absolutely right about their needing to accept responsibility for their network issues. Had they built a true VoIP network like Champion Communications did instead of laying VoIP technology on top of the old switching technology they wouldn't be having many of the probems they are experiencing. | |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO | Maybe they just forgot to pay their phone bill... 
Old too soon...smart too late. | |
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| The Way Out
join:2003-01-20 | I see Vonage through Level3, Global Crossing, and WilTel. | |
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EGeezer
Summertime -
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country! | The real cause... Some farmer was using a backhoe to bury a dead cow and cut through the trunk line.
(Usual response from phone company when there's a major phone or dataline outage)
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Gaudeamus igitur, Juvenes dum sumus | |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs: | Re: The real cause... The excuse from Verizon that the beavers were eating out the fiber was at least funny.
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The Intel Prescott. One step closer to 50,000 watts of clear channel power! | |
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mooty
join:2001-01-28
Riverdale, GA
| Blame it on those poor animals Maybe it was those damn beavers - that is, if you read that article about the response one property owner had for a letter sent to him by his city govt. to notify him for the illegal diversion and construction of waterflow obstructing obstacle - the dam.
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Alright, BIG MAN! So You Want To Make the BIG BUCK$, Eh??!!. . . . . . Do You Know How To Handle a Machine-gun? | |
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aitech
Guru. Kneel
join:2000-12-19
Boston, MA
clubs:
| Simple.. Simple solution.. IF Vonage believes it was Global Crossing, then provide technical PROOF of what they are claiming. Not as a press release to everyone, etc, but to some tech forums, something where we will understand it, and allow us to determine if Global caused the problem. Then they will remain credible with us, and we can go to bat for them.
Just my 2c.
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1536/384 Covad. 1380/360 actual. 20-60ms pings. Great!!Was a BITCH to install 60+ days and 100+ incompetent moron's along the way, but it's GREAT and SOLID now.. GO NYY!! | |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| Re: Simple.. If GBX sufficiently screws up thier routing table, then it is possible that people using certain ISPs will have trouble getting through to Vonage. Some routers will route traffic in an infinite loop. That's why TTL exists. If the routers don't catch the problem or they are lax about it then the problem stays around that much longer. If the upstream ISP wants all the traffic to Vonage to go through GBX, usually to save $$$, then it is usually impossible to get through.
Or it could be that Vonage is lying.
Just blame it on the Democrats. Like Albert Gore Jr. or something. It seems to be a very popular thing to do.
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The Intel Prescott. One step closer to 50,000 watts of clear channel power! | |
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Cybertoad
join:2001-11-08
Houston, TX | What Outage? I was on the phone almost all day yesterday and
didn't have any problems whatsoever with my
Vonage phones.
No outage here! | |
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hedyd4u
Premium
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY | It was Lee Harvey Oswald or maybe Fidel Castro
The MIB or Aliens | |
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loserhead
3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA | Re: It was i still say it was the Weather Channel | |
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scooterge558
join:2004-07-07
| Why play a game nobody wins I'm not as concerned with whether Vonage or Global Crossing is to blame, and quite frankly could care less. What I am more interested in is whether Vonage is going to credit the accounts of everyone for the outage? That's the question I want answered. I have a feeling they are not, that would cost them way to much and let's face it, we're talking about cutting edge technology, bound to be some hiccups. | |
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visio
join:2001-08-29
Clifton, NJ | No need to be credited 24 Hours (in a day) x 30 Days = 720 Hours
Vonage @ $29.99/month
29.99 / 720 Hours = ~$0.04 /hour
I was down for 2 hours, I'm not that hard pressed for the 8 cents...
Whats with some of you people? | |
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| hedyd4u
Premium
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY | Re: No need to be credited They could not do the math. | |
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MPScan
Premium
join:2001-08-24
Boston, MA
| It isn't the actual cost of the service lost, but the value of that service to the consumer. I am only 27 years old, but cannot recall once in my lifetime that I lost a dialtone on my old copper line. I think most of us would be hard pressed to recall such an outage on the good 'ole POTS lines.
My point is that the value of your phone going down can go far beyond that $0.08. That's the problem here. If Vonage wants to market their product as a replacement for POTS lines, then they have to provide the same uptime that users have become used to. Who's to say this won't happen again in another week with Vonage.... I can tell you one thing, I can almost 100% guarantee it won't happen with my Verizon landline! | |
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MPScan
Premium
join:2001-08-24
Boston, MA | Re: No need to be credited Your point? All that proves is that POTS really does have a phenominal uptime. Like I said, I am hard pressed to find one time that my POTS service crapped out. I bet you can't either. | |
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aaronfitz
Premium
join:2004-03-06
Cedar Rapids, IA | Re: No need to be credited I can see you didn't read the thread  | |
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MPScan
Premium
join:2001-08-24
Boston, MA
| Re: No need to be credited And you still haven't given me an example of when your phone service died?
The hardcord fact remains that for 99.99% of people, they have their POTS lines available 99.99% of the time.
You can post links to any thread you want, but you know what I just said is completely true. | |
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visio
join:2001-08-29
Clifton, NJ
| I dont understand why everyone has such as major issue with Vonage going down. It happens. Yes, I know, the Telco's dont go down as often as VOIP providers go down, but guess what..
(taken from Vonage TOS)
1.10 Service Distinctions
You acknowledge and understand that the Service is not a telephone service. Important distinctions (some, but not necessarily all, of which are described in this Agreement) exist between telephone service and the enhanced Service offering provided by Vonage.
If a company says they arent a telephone service, and you're holding them to the same standards as a telephone service, it's not the company who's at fault.
If you need a reliable telephone service (business, medical issues, etc) then you should sign up with a company that says theyre a telephone service. It's really that simple.
Looking as a cell phone for a replacement?
(taken from SprintPCS's website)
Coverage is not available everywhere, nor can we guarantee you will receive coverage at all times, or without interruptions or delays (e.g., dropped calls, blocked calls, etc.) in the coverage areas we identify. Actual coverage and quality of Services may be affected by conditions within or beyond our control, including network problems, software, signal strength, your equipment, structures (including buildings in which you may be located), atmospheric, geographic, or topographic conditions.
They dont claim theyre not a telephone service, but they do say that coverage is NOT available everywhere. I'm not going to quote each and every cell phone carrier, but you get the idea.
Need telephone service quality and stability? Go with a company that says they'll give it to you. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
2 edits | Re: No need to be credited said by visio:
Need telephone service quality and stability? Go with a company that says they'll give it to you.
So what you're saying is that nowhere no way no how has Vonage ever claimed in any of its marketing blitzes that it offered quality or stability. I'm sure their marketing and sales people, as well as their entire consumer base that supports the product, has an entirely different take on the matter than you do. I don't know many telco consumers who purchase inferior quality & sporadic operability voluntarily.
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MoveOn.org -MFSO.org -ArnoldWatch.org - DigitalConsumer.org - FTCR.org - Privacy.org - Adbusters.org - Eff.com - Democraticmedia.org - HealthPrivacy.org - Hacktivismo.com - ClearChannelSucks.org - Epic.org | |
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visio
join:2001-08-29
Clifton, NJ
| Re: No need to be credited What im saying is that I dont believe Vonage has said "cancel your telco line and come with us". As for marketing, it's their job to get customers to check them out. They're not forcing anyone to make the switch. And if someone falls for the marketing and is under the impression that Vonage or any other VOIP provider is as gauranteed as a telco, then its that persons fault for not reading the fine print.
Its not that many people are going to voluntarily switch with the mindset of going to an inferior/sporadic service, but people are always looking to cut corners, save money. This is what they have to deal with as a result.
At the time I signed up for Vonage, I was out of my house from about 9am - 11pm every day for work. It didnt make sense to spend $60 on a service that i was barely going to have time to use. $29.99 for vonage? and all the same features plus some? I made the choice, and I knew the drawbacks. Cant blame Vonage for my decision.
Consider this, with any company, you can have any 2 out of 3:
1) Low Cost (amount you spend on the service)
2) Reliability (Service is up whenever you need)
3) Quality (How good the service is when you use it)
If you want low cost and reliability, give up quality.
If you want low cost and quality, give up reliability.
If you want quality and reliability, give up low cost.
I'm not saying thats how it should be, I'm saying currently, thats how it is. | |
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| | | | bp5138
Premium
join:2004-08-08
Plano, TX
| Re: No need to be credited You can have low cost, reliability, and quality today. Go to www.championcommunications.biz/1001725 and check it out. They may not be the "lowest" cost provider, but they are a low cost provider and an outstanding alternative to the baby bells. They have their own backbone with incredible reliability and quality. Champion was just established by iOnosphere, Inc. as their retail arm. iOnosphere has been in the VoIP business for over 5 years and have the only only end-to-end fully digital network out there with over 151 routes to the international market. | |
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| Vonage User5
join:2004-05-15
Hillsborough, NC | I can agree with your assessment but what if you had multiple lines for a business and you had a conference call with a new client at 11' oclock..... | |
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iforgotmypassword
@mzima.net | Re: No need to be credited If you have a such a critical situation, why in the world would you solely rely on a VoIP product?? That just seems like poor planning and bad decisionmaking | |
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visio
join:2001-08-29
Clifton, NJ
| With any business, if you're relying on service, you should go with who will provide you the best service.
Which is why many business go for T1 lines, not cable.
Which is why they order name brand machines, and not have the local Radio Shack drop some off.
Which is why they stick with Verizon(* Bell), and not VOIP.
Look at it this way. You're running a business. Verizon offers you lines that will run you $50 a month, or VOIP offers service that will run you $30 a month. Meanwhile, your clients are each going to bring in at minimum $100/month. In your planning, is it worth losing $100 to save $20? | |
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Doubledee32
join:2002-06-20
Charlotte, NC | Other Voip's were down also Seems like Broadvox and Voicepluse were down during the time Vonage was as well......Has anyone any info on Callvantage from AT&T was wondering if its been reliable or not? | |
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| bp5138
Premium
join:2004-08-08
Plano, TX
| Re: Other Voip's were down also AT&T has quality issues also. They chose to go with the H323 protocol instead of SIP. While H323 is more robust thant SIP, that robustness works against it in the VoIP environment. SIP is a simpler protocol that is very well suited to VoIP.
If you'd like to look at a VoIP provider that does not have quality or outage issues, go to www.championcommunications.biz/1001725. | |
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yuckie
join:2001-05-07
Bronx, NY
| Let's Shift the Blame Here!!! Let's not blame Vonage or Global Crossing about this outage. How about blaming Verizon for it? I'll say Verizon is about to introduce their VoIP products, so they try to promote their products' stability by simply using some of their telcos to disable VoIP accesses from providers like Vonage, etc. How does that theory sound??:)
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| TercelChick
join:2002-08-13 | Re: Let's Shift the Blame Here!!! *dons tinfoil hat*
If you have proof, give it. Otherwise, it was just an unfortunate incident. Remember the Ebay outage a few years back? The eventually got it together. Vonage will too, or be swallowed by another carrier who can. | |
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Vonage Blame Game
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