 
mig288
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Merchantville, NJ | New Jersey always gets screwed! It seems to me that the state of New Jersey is always behind when it come to technology. This is just a reality check from verizon to the BPU, if Verizon plans to spend a quarter-billion dollars the prices have to go up. DoH! | |
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yock
Eschew the False Dichotomy
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: New Jersey always gets screwed! It seems that Verizon should figure out these sorts of wholesale rate questions before they move forward with $250 million investments in infrastructure. Verizon had to have the backing of their wholesale customers before beginning this, so the only logical conclusion is that they are trying to change the terms mid-stream. | |
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| Estragon
join:2003-06-20
Greenville, NH
 ·MV Communications,..
|  It's not just New Jersey
Honestly, the best broadband news I could get is that Verizon is filing for Chapter 7. Then maybe the next generation ILEC would treat me like a customer and try to provide the product that I want to pay for. | |
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1yearcoundown
@verizon.n
| Re: New Jersey always gets screwed! verizon has one thing on it's mind in NJ! MONEY!
if VZ broadband customers don't get the natural deployment of multimegabit technology within 1 year, just take your business to the cable company, Verizon understands one thing, MONEY, when they ask you that silly litle question:
"Have I provided you with outstanding service today, answer
NO, you have not. I will take my business to cablevision or some other broadband provider and when enough customers switch, its too bad on them. they will get the message- the customer has some leverage here as well. I would begin that 1 year countdown today, if by 4-10-2005 they have not increased broadband beyone that 1.5 megabit or nothing if your too far by then, go to the cable company... Innovate or die..remind customer service every few months as well that the countdown has started, and keep them updated.. mark your calendars... | |
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| | Estragon
join:2003-06-20
Greenville, NH
·MV Communications,..
|  Competition? Where?
said by 1yearcoundown:
I will take my business to cablevision or some other broadband provider
The hole in your plan is that some of us have no alternatives. So Verizon lets us putter along on half-speed dialup connections.
It must be nice to have a cable company. | |
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rid0617
join:2003-07-20
Greer, SC | We want maximum profit We have to look out for our CEO bonus program and of course the stock holders. Typical corporation. Hot dog, first post, never happened as long as I've been doing this | |
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shit
join:2003-07-14
Skowhegan, ME | DSL I hope this doesn't go national and raise my dsl bill,I get my service from one of its competitors. | |
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| keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
 ·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: DSL You get it from a competitor or a CLEC?
To me a CLEC, or anyone who uses Verizon lines, is not a competitor. They are simply sucking off of a resource that someone else established.
A competitor is a DSL line that is not owned by Verizon. This means the copper is your providers, not Verizons.
Cable is a good example. Wireless is a good example. Yahoo DSL (or whatever) is not a good example. These "piggy back" DSL providers are not any better than the people they truly pay. They have simply found a way to charge you less and force Verizon to charge others more for something else. | |
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| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| excuse me? said by keyboard5684  :
To me a CLEC, or anyone who uses Verizon lines, is not a competitor. They are simply sucking off of a resource that someone else established.
you know who that someone else is? the consumer, that's who.
that infrastructure was paid for by the consuming public - the bells were allowed their monopoly in return for building the infrastructure. In other words, these monopolies were guaranteed a rate of return sufficient to pay for that copper; there was no risk, they didn't "go out on a limb" and hope they made enough money to pay for their investment, the government decided they would make the consumers provide that money, sometimes upfront before anything was built. Go ask Pennsylvania about that last one.
you better go brush up on the history of the telephone industry as you are clearly suffering some delusional beliefs. | |
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| | amdace
BOHICA
join:2001-02-02
Westland, MI
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
| Re: DSL said by keyboard5684 :
Yahoo DSL (or whatever) is not a good example. These "piggy back" DSL providers are not any better than the people they truly pay.
I thought Yahoo partnered with SBC. SBC provides the copper, and Yahoo plays ISP. They both share in the profits.
Telco advocates say that companies should build out their own networks. I would like to see a company come into some of the built up cities in my area and try to get approval and rights of way to put in a whole new infrastructure, poles and all. It would be nearly impossible.
So, the only alternative is to allow CLECs to "piggyback" on the present infrastructure.
Telcos get compensated and a return on their infrastructure investment from "Attachment Fees".
Here is a snippet from an FCC ruling regarding a company trying to raise "Attachment Fees".
"The Bureau Order further concluded that the Cable Formula used to calculate an annual pole attachment rate allows a utility full recovery of its costs associated with the space used for the attachment as well as a return on investment and provides just compensation to the utility for the space occupied on the pole."
You can read the full ruling here. »www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders···1181.txt
You also said "Cable is a good example."
I would like to point out that, at least in my area, the cable company, which provides not only video but also data and voice on its own wire, "piggybacks" on the Telco pole (again, the Telco charges Attachment fees).
I am using the Telco as the example for owning the poles. It might be the electric utility. Whoever it is, they are getting compensated by at least three companies (in my area) for attaching to the pole (We have two cable companies, a Telco and an electric utility all on the same pole. In some areas there is so much crap hanging on these poles that they bend from the weight and have to be supported with up to five guy wires.). I would say that some company is being compensated quite well for having others "piggyback" on their infrastructure.
Here are some interesting links.
»asac.ameritech.com/documents/for···0P-1.pdf
»www.sbc.com/Large-Files/MI-LD/Ap···0206.pdf | |
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rid0617
join:2003-07-20
Greer, SC | Disregard well, it appeared to be the first | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Verizon vs. NJ (and AT&T) Verizon has been participating in a vicious negative ad campain against AT&T in response to ads from a group calling itself New Jerseyans for Technology and Economic Growth (whom Verizon claims is a frontgroup for AT&T) for a few months now. While Verizon brought up some good point in their ads, I wonder how much money they wasted having these radio ads run a few times an hour for months on end?
Verizon got a rate increase, yet they are now going to hold NJ for ransom to get back at the BPU and AT&T. Currently Verizon is pretty much the only competition Comcast, the cable company in the majority of the state, has in NJ. The longer they hold off the stronger Comcast will become and the more of a chance that Comcast will be the only provider of high speed services. This isn't a good move for the public and its also not a good move for Verizon. Comcast must be loving this though.
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"snmp: the standard e-mail protocol on the Internet" - LinkSys user manual (page 17) | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Verizon vs. NJ (and AT&T) True, but none of those mentioned. with the exception of Sprint DSL. compete with Comcast cable and Sprint uses Verizon's lines.
Comcast isn't the only cable company in NJ, they're just the largest.
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"snmp: the standard e-mail protocol on the Internet" - LinkSys user manual (page 17) | |
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Free America
@bellsouth.net | Let's turn the clock back! I love the idea of letting the governments run the companies and the broadband services! It takes me back to the good old days of the Soviet Block. At least they could made the trains run on time. | |
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dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Maybe its time for someone else? Maybe it is time for Verizon to be replaced as thier State Telco. God knows that they have not made any investment in West Virginia. My POTS line doens't were very well and I am tired of calling verizon. | |
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Alex G Bell
join:2002-07-02
Boston, MA | Fiber to the Moon Maybe they can find a better regulatory environment there. | |
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Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL
| Extorion? If you have a problem with extorion, the best solution is to go completely Medieval on the extortionist.
If Verizon has decided to employ fraud and extortion as their standard tactics, I cant imagine that anyone in New Jersey would shed a tear if they were deprived of their telephone franchise.
After all these extorionists are criminal terrorists trying to loot the citizens of NJ.
I don't seem to recall New Jersians as willing to bend over at the slightest threat. | |
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bonnyman
join:2003-04-16
Rome, GA
| The cable guys must love this announcement! Verizon is playing chicken with its own future survival.
Over the long term, the Bells need to deploy fiber (or coax, but why would they do that??) in order to compete with the cable TV companies which have much higher bandwidth cable networks.
The cable companies own video to the home. They dominate broadband to the home. Starting in 2005, they'll start taking away a lot of voice customers with Voice over IP (VoIP).
The Bells can let this happen or they can respond by going after the cable companies with all 3 services.
Excluding Qwest, the Bells are (for now), much better capitalized than the cable companies. They can do this in theory, but in reality they don't have the savvy or the stomach.
I think of the Bells as dinosaurs marking time waiting for the big meteor strike that's headed their way.
They'll join Western Union in the ranks of former communications giants. Perhaps they should start studying the money order business now ...
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Al Bonnyman
Fiber Planners Inc.
See my weblog at:
Community Broadband Networks for FTTH, municipal broadband and powerline broadband news | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: The cable guys must love this announcement! said by bonnyman :
Verizon is playing chicken with its own future survival.
I couldn't agree more. The only thing that keeps me hoping the telcos go down in flames is the fact that it would mean cable wins. That's scary enough that I almost want to root for the telcos.
the quote below sorta says it all:
"It's a bizarre business strategy where you are stopping investment in a state where there are so many businesses and you have the second-highest income in the nation," said Michael Schweder, president of AT&T New Jersey.
the telcos want their full monopoly powers back and it's making them do stupid things - they really do deserve to die out. | |
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Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL | call that strike VOIP | |
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GO BLUE
Greed Is Good
Premium
join:2004-03-08
IN YOUR MIND
·Comcast
| i have comcast hsi...and i hope verizon comes through with this..because if they do...im sure speeds will be very good
as with some type of package deal.therefor comcast will have to do better to compete...what you all think?
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WOLVERINE | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | Re: The cable guys must love this announcement! You'd see them whine if they were forced to open their networks up to any other competitors. Cable is the real monopoly.
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support the Hunley | |
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BarneyBadAss
| Oh Screw it Let's just ditch Verizon, AT&T; Quest and all the rest.. let's go back to using 2 tin cans and a string as it was in the days of cavemen....  | |
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Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL | Re: Oh Screw it If you twist up your string from the hair of pre teen girls you can increase your bandwidth by .01% | |
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veruca salt
| but i want it now...... just more money so ivan can buy another ivory backscratcher. | |
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JimF
join:2003-06-15
Allentown, PA
| NJ will get what it deserves Great! It looks like the NJ public is as short sighted as the California public was with electric power (if that were possible). The new fiber will come here to Pennsylvania instead. (While they are at it, why don't they ask for a Congressional investigation on high gas prices too?) | |
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Only Solution
@speakeasy.n
| Split it Already! The Infrastructure MUST be spun-off from the ILECs. The resulting compaany will have ALL of the incentive to maintain the copper AND run fiber and keep it all STABLE. At that point, ANY ISP/Service provider would rent the line to the customer. Competition will flourish and all the promises of broadband will come true. The remaining services arms of the ILECs will still have a the largest market share and the most available equipment in place to rent to other providers if they chose to(UNE-like), and they will no longer be able to bitch and moan about the burden of maintaining the infrastructure and using it as an excuse not to roll out fiber. The consumer benefits, the service providers benefit and the ILEC benefits. Why has it taken so long to do the right thing???
WAKE UP PEOPLE...This has been the only solution since the split-up of Ma Bell and more-so with the 1996 Telecom Act.
BREAKUP THE LYING, CHEATING, UNFAIR, MONOPOLISTIC, DETRIMENT TO COMPETITION AND CONSUMERS THAT THE ILECS ARE!!! | |
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tomj1226
join:2002-02-20
Allentown, PA
| Getting screwed either way Either way, the people of NJ are gonna get screwed over here. They did it to us in PA, when we paid them the cost of having them deploy something they never did get around to doing.
So get out your checkbook, grab your ankles, and grimmace. The only question is whether the check is going to be made out to Verizon or the tax man.
I still choose Verizon, simply because I prefer DSL over cable. That's an even worse monopoly in my opinion. I'd say the best option is to call the congressman or whoever and tell them to hold their line and don't give in to blackmail. | |
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| JohnE
join:2002-04-28 | Verizon did not pull the plug on NJ fiber yet. The StarLedger posted that news article on the 9th but on the 10th Verizon was still pulling lines for fttp in my town. We will see what happens Monday. | |
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RichNice
join:2003-01-09
Columbia, MD | You get what you pay for.... Or that's what a company with a monopolistic strangle hold would tell you.
Good thing there is a such thing as shared access...or I wouldn't have the speeds with DSL that I do now. | |
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JohnE
join:2002-04-28 | Still on the job "What scattered fiber to the home deployments Verizon is working on MAY be put on hold ....." Key word..may
But they are pulling fiber in my town in NJ. | |
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Re: Let's turn the clock back!
