Stuffing FiberIn rather odd places... ( old news - 02:15PM Monday Feb 09 2004) tags: Fiber · alternativesFiber deployment can often be an expensive and time consuming headache for cities and providers alike. To that end providers continue to look toward steam, gas and sewer lines as fiber delivery conduits. Some cities like Houston thought ahead, burying massive fiber runners for future expansion. Most cities didn't, and providers often look for less costly alternatives to digging up entire city blocks - particularly after the telecom collapse. UUNET deployed much of their mid-west network using old dried out oil lines. One Wilkes Barre, PA news outlet recently outlined one man's dream of bringing fiber (and economic prosperity) to his struggling neighborhood via old steam pipes. OFS Optics, the former fiber-optic division of Lucent Technologies, not long ago piloted a system of delivering fiber via natural gas lines (see press release), using a special type of cable they've dubbed 'DuctSaver FX'. In 2001 a company named CityNet got a lot of press for SAM (sewer access module) - a sewer roaming fiber deploying robot (see Techweb article as one example). Venture capitalists gobbled the idea up, investing $275 million in the company in short order. Unfortunately tough times set in, and the company was forced to scale down their projects (and staff) considerably. According to the BBC, one Scotland utility is the latest group hoping to find gold in the sewers by leasing the lines to interested companies.
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL
edit:
February 9th, @01:24PM
| Less money on deployment = good a lot of the bigger companies that push fiber have been doing this a lot... one of the great things about fiber is the fact that it isnt electrical means it can be run through pretty much any conduit, even gas lines that are still in use have been used for fiber...
i think its great, perhaps we will get FTTH through our toilets?
i dont care how it gets here if, it ever, just gets here...
so anything that makes deploying fiber cheaper/faster/more of a possibility is awesome IMO  | |
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blueeyesm
join:2003-09-05
Waterloo, ON | Re: Less money on deployment = good " i think its great, perhaps we will get FTTH through our toilets? "
That brings a whole new meaning to 'logging on'
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loadmaster
join:2001-01-10
San Jose, CA | Actually I think that it brings a whole meaning to "down loading". | |
| | | | rammjet
join:2003-08-27
West Palm Beach, FL
| Re: Less money on deployment = good said by loadmaster  :
Actually I think that it brings a whole meaning to "down loading".
...or "My broadband service is so crappy that it takes 3 flushes to send an email"... | |
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ViviTheMage
The Dude - 1337sk33t
Premium
join:2002-10-28
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:  | Re: Less money on deployment = good i want some fiber >. | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL | Re: Less money on deployment = good hehe most of the soho routers should be in toilets anyway
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BellSouth sucks | |
| | | | | Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI
| said by FLECOM :
i think its great, perhaps we will get FTTH through our toilets?
I knew the internet was going there.  | |
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God
IN Vilseck Germany
Premium
join:2002-07-01
VILSECK, DE
clubs: | Re: Less money on deployment = good fiber to the toilet
`-` | |
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CPM
join:2001-08-24
Miami, FL | uploading That brings a whole new meaning to 'Uploading' | |
| tonekilla
Pipe Dreams
Premium
join:2003-07-26
Gunnison, MS
clubs:
| when?! Some cities like Houston thought ahead, burying massive fiber runners for future expansion.
That sounds all fine and everything, but just how far in the future do they expect this expansion to be? I think the city of Houston should start "expanding" into those runners now
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Gotta love SBC's 6000/608 plan for $44.99! | |
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Iridium
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Los Angeles, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Wireless is the future... Down here in Los Angeles, we don't seem to have anyone even intrested in getting fiber here. I was reading about Nextels FLASH OFM? Technology that they are deploying out in the mid west i think. That would be great over here since DSL and Cable users are few. | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL
edit:
February 9th, @02:12PM
| Re: Wireless is the future... wireless may be the future... but what links your wireless access points (be they cellular or other) will most likely be fiber 
fiber will be used a lot even with wireless... fiber will be faster and have less latency than fiber for a while to come
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BellSouth sucks | |
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Iridium
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Los Angeles, CA
·DSL EXTREME
edit:
February 9th, @04:03PM
| Yeah that's true. I wonder if there are any fiber cables out here....and whats up with it costing so much to deploy the fiberoptics? i heard someone say its like $1000 a square foot to install them! Thats highway robbery. Isn't it just making a conduit on the ground and shoving the cable down there? And they can install cable tv lines easily, so why cant they do the same with fiber optics(I dont know if cable is underground or above ground). I heard in Japan they use robots to tunnel fiber through the sewer systems, are there any places in the US that are doing that? Freakin Los Angeles, so behind the times.
/me moves to San Francisco | |
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spg
Grrrr
join:2001-10-31
NOT Texas!
| Re: Wireless is the future... fiber is expensive to place because when you place it, the pulling tension must be limited or you'll pull the fibers apart. The tensile strength is not all that high. In addition, while copper is placed typically in six or seven hundred foot sections, it is not uncommon to place a 5,000 or even 10,000 foot section.
one of the ways it's done is to literally blow it down the innerduct (a smaller conduit placed with others inside the traditional duct under the street) with air pressure.
So it takes special equipment to do this and it's not cheap. Add to that the fact that a lot of the fiber equipment has a shorter lifespan than the copper equipment because of obsolescence.
I see obstacles to placing in other utilities' pipelines such as "square corners" versus radii, etc. Also, I could envision a tangled mess in the sewers as additional fibers are placed, and just how is a camera-bot going to travel down the pipes for inspections? Abandoned pipes may work, but I don't see using active ones.
It may work, but sometimes I wonder if these are merely pie in the sky ideas or an attempt to con me out of my money. | |
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Brianv5
Low Level Functionary
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Keyser, WV
 ·Comcast
| Railroads and right-of-way I used to be with a start up dot com that crashed and burned. BroadBand Office worked with railroads to get right of way through the cities. Had a nice nationwide network too. Now if they just could have NOT blown through 800 million in 19 months, they still might be around. | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | People act like this is a new thing... This is what WilTel has been doing forever. Using old pipes and pipeline ROW to become one of the largest fiber deployments in the country. | |
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Iridium
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Los Angeles, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: People act like this is a new thing... said by inteller :
This is what WilTel has been doing forever. Using old pipes and pipeline ROW to become one of the largest fiber deployments in the country.
I seriously need to move out of Los Angeles. | |
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copperdoctor
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Palatine, IL
| Ed Norton, fiber splicer "Ok, gentlemen, we have a cut fiber in the duct run below. You know what to do....Bob, open that manhole. Dave, grab your tools and nose plugs...we're going in!!!"
God bless our firemen, policemen, and our future sewer rat data techs, whoever you may be. Yech. | |
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Iridium
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Los Angeles, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Ed Norton, fiber splicer said by copperdoctor :
"Ok, gentlemen, we have a cut fiber in the duct run below. You know what to do....Bob, open that manhole. Dave, grab your tools and nose plugs...we're going in!!!"
God bless our firemen, policemen, and our future sewer rat data techs, whoever you may be. Yech.
If they pay me enough ill do it. How would a cable get cut down there, only sh!t travels through the pipes. | |
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briankeys
join:2002-04-09
Monroe, NY
| Re: Ed Norton, fiber splicer said by Iridium :
said by copperdoctor :
"Ok, gentlemen, we have a cut fiber in the duct run below. You know what to do....Bob, open that manhole. Dave, grab your tools and nose plugs...we're going in!!!"
God bless our firemen, policemen, and our future sewer rat data techs, whoever you may be. Yech.
If they pay me enough ill do it. How would a cable get cut down there, only sh!t travels through the pipes.
hungry rats with metal teeth?
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17/m/ny looking for sultry smokers. | |
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copperdoctor
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Palatine, IL
| said by Iridium :
said by copperdoctor :
"Ok, gentlemen, we have a cut fiber in the duct run below. You know what to do....Bob, open that manhole. Dave, grab your tools and nose plugs...we're going in!!!"
God bless our firemen, policemen, and our future sewer rat data techs, whoever you may be. Yech.
If they pay me enough ill do it. How would a cable get cut down there, only sh!t travels through the pipes.
Directional boring, my friend...My overtime is basically based on contractors who "flow-mole" or directional bore through communication cables. They also excel at boring through(pick one or more) Gas, water,electric,sewer,and septic lines. | |
| ATTGUY2
join:2002-06-02
Fremont, CA
| Fiber is DEAD DEAD DEAD Fiber, like copper lines is DEAD before it even gets started. Wireless is the way to go. In a few years you won't have to "wire" your home and all existing cable companies and phone companies who have copper "drops" to homes will abandon them for wireless technology.
Imagine going down to the cable company and picking up a cable box, bringing it home, connecting it to your TV, pulling up the antenna and having instant digital or HD TV service. Want to watch TV in the bedroom? No problem, just move the box. Want TV in EVERY room of your house? No more wires under the crawl space, through the walls or through the attics, etc....
As for phone service..... I don't even have a home phone anymore. My cell phone gives me every service I could need and I can have it with me wherever I go. No more calling home to check for messages on the answering machine, or racing home to catch that call from the girlfriend, etc...
These companies (cable & phone) had better get on the band wagon... Because maintaining these networks of cable (copper and fiber) in every town and city all across america is getting way too expensive. | |
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joeybee
Joey
Premium
join:2003-08-12
Hamilton, ON
clubs: | Re: Fiber is DEAD DEAD DEAD WTF r u smokin? if u dont have wires in your house how do u expect to have electricity? | |
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fwls
@swbell.ne
 from:
BliZZardX
| The future of telecommunication rests with fiber. With a single strand of fiber to the home (FTTH), all your telecommunication needs from video to voice to pure data will be accommodated simultaneously without lossy compression . No wireless system has the bandwidth to achieve that "all in one" solution. | |
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copperdoctor
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Palatine, IL
| said by ATTGUY2 :
As for phone service..... I don't even have a home phone anymore. My cell phone gives me every service I could need and I can have it with me wherever I go. No more calling home to check for messages on the answering machine, or racing home to catch that call from the girlfriend, etc...
These companies (cable & phone) had better get on the band wagon... Because maintaining these networks of cable (copper and fiber) in every town and city all across america is getting way too expensive.
Sure. A completely wireless environment. I suppose this will happen right after we enter the "completely paperless environment." Oh, wait...that was supposed to happen already, except someone forgot to fill out the order form in triplicate. Maybe it will happen right after the flying cars are delivered. OOOps, no flying cars, the tollway people made sure of that.
Wireless is an additional tool, an add-on to our existing technology. But the plain and simple truth is it would cost WAY more to abandon the trillions of miles of copper and fiber already in place, just to replace it all with wireless everything. Getting rid of your home telephone line is a leap of faith that many young people are trying. But sooner or later they realize what a mistake placing all your eggs in one basket is. Drop the phone in the toilet while answering that all important call from your girlfriend and you end up with two things, a wet phone and a lot of explaining. Even if the wireless utopia you dream of does come, it wont be for another couple generations, long after those who have grown accustomed to reliability over technology have faded away. Every day the newest greatest thing comes out only to become obsolete in a month. Think about buying a new TV right now, it's as certain as buying a new computer. HDTV? Built in or ready?How about Plasma! OOh,wait...LCD! Forget about it, Im sticking with my 32 inch SONY until it dies and then and ONLY then will I even think about something new. Cell phones are toys, Home telephones are utilities, and have the support and reliability to back it up. Copper and fiber have remained basically the same for years for one reason, stability. Good luck in the wireless wonderland if it ever comes around, but a word of advice, buy a gas powered generator...cuz if you blow a fuse, yer screwed. | |
| | | nexus79
Premium
join:2003-07-08
Japan
| Re: Fiber is DEAD DEAD DEAD ATTGUY, what are you smoking? I live in Japan and have a 100Meg FTTH service. FTTH has been around here for a few years, and let me tell you that the only thing that is dying is COPPER, fiber is starting to take off. Fiber is awesome, and will probably stay for years to come. Wireless can complement fiber, not substitute it. Sometimes it helps to look at other countries to see what will happen in the U.S. - such is the case with broadband, and wireless/cell phone etc. I met an American friend of mine a few months ago who was telling me that in his hometown the new 'big thing' was camera phones. Here they were the big thing about 2-3 years ago, I was talking to him about my video cell phone (which has been about since 2002) and how I video-cell-call my girlfriend... lol.
Getting back to the original topic, fiber has already been deployed through gas pipes here in Japan, the company doing it I believe is called USEN. I think they're only in Tokyo or some major area for now, but I heard the service is better than NTT's fiber services (B-FLETS) which is fiber that's on poles... the good thing about the fiber on the poles is that it's everywhere, I mean I live in a rural town with nothing but a bunch of old geezers and I've got FTTH.
Fiber - "If you build it, they will come". LOL ^_^ | |
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DavisPhotog
Flyingphotog
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-26
Oakland, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| LoL! Reading some of the jokes at the beginning of this thread, I was busting up laughing.
Sending fiber through gas lines seems interesting. How is that any cheaper than ripping up streets?! You've got to shut off the gas in order to route the lines don't you?
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only the good die young | |
| | tonekilla
Pipe Dreams
Premium
join:2003-07-26
Gunnison, MS
clubs:
| Re: LoL! sure, but it's alot easier to turn off a gas line for a few hours to install some fiber in a pre-existing pipe that it would be to dig up the entire street, install the fiber, and then rebuild the street. Especially in metropolitan areas. I ask again however: If Houston was smart enough to install the "runners," why won't they go ahead and install the fiber?
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Gotta love SBC's 6000/608 plan for $44.99! | |
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