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Dave F
@verizon.net
| Re: Failing their customers I am not shocked under the current administration, but I am quite dissappointed that the FCC doesn't step in and stop this. While PR folks like to think they can redefine common terms at a whim, that is not legal. Perhaps Comcast needs to see a class action lawsuit. They've now stated publicly that they are not following the commond definition of unlimited. Consider for a moment what unlimited would mean for your phone minutes...
Someone either get the FCC in on this or file a class action. Comcast should be made to pay a few million for both robbing the community of assistance dollars and then lying to the very public that helped to pay them to become what they are.
That's really the only way they'll learn to back off the "but we don't define that word that way" methodology of illegal abuse of the customer. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| Re: Failing their customers The FCC's official position still seems to be taking a "hand's off" approach to cable internet, somehow linked to the FCC's Broadband Initiative. Nonetheless, Comcast's handling of this matter probably does not make Mike Powell's fight to overturn the Ninth District's BRAND X INTERNET SERVICES v. FCC decision any easier. | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | Re: Failing their customers Of course it is, they probably gave Bush money  I'm glad we have Adelphia up here in Mendocino County, CA | |
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| | NoFatChicks
No, I'M The Exon And You're The Intron
join:2002-06-15
Blountsville, AL
| Although I am not a big fan of lawsuits, I think that may be the only alternative, as you suggested. Actually, I’m shocked one has not been filed yet or a call to get similarly affected parties to get organized and ask for class action status. | |
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| Bowersdmstec
join:2001-02-02
Washington, IL
| Even though im not a Comcast user personally, I still have followed this story since the beginning reports. What I find interesting I guess you can say is this:
This is what was said by them: "A Comcast spokesman argues that when they're talking about "unlimited use" in marketing materials - they're talking about the lack of a per-minute charge, not unlimited data consumption."
"Not unlimited data consumption." Well that is fine, thanks for clearing it up. However please point the Comcast customers in the right direction of the T.O.S (Terms of Service or whatever they refer to it as) where it cleary defines what the "DOWNLOAD CAPS" are. They still dont seem to have provided customers with that answer. Just seems like beating around the bush to me.
I hope that made sense. Just dont understand that since they are explaining to the public the "Confusion" behind this, that they didnt take it further and clear it up with actual numbers for customer's to obide by.
Whiteice | |
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Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
| Re: Failing their customers Exactly
Comcast thinks it is not that important to have their download caps clearly defined the T.O.S that I agreed to as a comast user.
Well this comcast customer says BULLSH*T!!
Do I not have the right to know this information as a paying customer? | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: Failing their customers Seems to me, not only paying customers have the "right to know", but potential customers have a "right to know" too. | |
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Rambo76098
join:2003-02-21
Pataskala, OH
| Re: Failing their customers this definitely shows the true mentality of comcast-they don't care about what existing customers know or understand, they want to make new customers look into them and think they are giving them a good deal. then they sign up, and get sucked into all these things comcast didn't tell them about. you gotta love these companies that tell you one thing before you sign up, then change their story after you sign up. | |
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Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
join:2003-06-03
USA
 ·FrontierNet Intern..
| Your right.
You can't tell someone they can drive a car unlimited then give them a limit on the amount of gas they can use. A car needs fuel to preform it's function, without fuel a car serves no purpose.
If you can only drive 20 miles do to gas restrictions that defeats the unlimited portion.
Your TOS is as good as it's weakest link.
So to compare them...
If you make the connection unlimited (time) then set a cap on bandwidth. Your limiting the time someone can use it based on the bandwidth.
That's where they're failing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that access and bandwidth are one in the same. If one is capped the other suffers.
With this technical flaw advertising unlimited under any circumstance means false advertising.
--
Sarick's Dungeon Clipart Page
Trouble spelling? www.iespell.com | |
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| tirebiter
join:2002-02-16
Champaign, IL | .5% * 4.8 million = 24,000
They have cut off 24,000 subscribers? That's a whole bunch of subscribers to cut off! | |
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GorbGuy
join:2003-09-23
Middleville, MI
clubs:
| Re: Failing their customers Heh, I was thinking the same thing. Kinda says something about a company who thinks "bah, it's only .5% or roughly 20k or so customers who were misbehaving, let's dump em." I'm really curious to see what this percentage will be 6 months or so from now, when higher speeds are rolled out across Comcast country. Looks like SBC and others might be rolling out more RT's in the future, me thinks.  | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA | Re: Failing their customers "Looks like SBC and others might be rolling out more RT's in the future, me thinks"
Don't count on it, they'll probably find some state or group to blackmail unless they get their way. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
1 edit | Re: Failing their customers said by b_zen  :
Notices were sent. It would be interesting to know the actual percentage of disconnections among disconnection notices...
The last published report quoting Comcast suggested less than 0.01% have had their service terminated. The "warning" letters are the first step in the process, however, guidance from Comcast regarding what one needs to do to avoid termination is vague at best. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
 ·LINGO
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·surpasshosting
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Failing their customers That may have been the most recent report quoting Comcast, but earlier reports said...
said by
Tracy Davidson, NBC 10 Consumer Reporter, September 30, 2003
Unlimited Internet Use Not Always Unlimited
Some Comcast Customers Threatened With Cutoff Of Service:
Comcast said it sent a couple hundred letters nationwide and that customers are panicking for no reason.
said by
Tracy Davidson, NBC 10 Consumer Reporter, September 30, 2003
Unlimited Internet Use Not Always Unlimited
Some Comcast Customers Threatened With Cutoff Of Service:
A Comcast spokesperson said that no subscribers' service would be terminated, despite what the letter says.
So... I guess customers are now panicking with reason. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI | Re: Failing their customers With regard to the second quote, apparently Comcast changed their mind.  | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
1 edit | Re: Failing their customers said by b_zen :
There's no way a company in their right minds, in this day of hard earned cash, would get rid of 24k customers!
If one believes the figures derived from Comcast's quotes, less than 24,000 have received at least initial warnings, while the January quotes suggest that less than 500 have actually been expelled.
As for getting rid of customers, there are certainly economic factors that can be used as justification. This could range from direct economic impact of high use customers to indirect items, such as supporting the existing customer base with less bandwidth or supporting an increasing customer base with existing bandwidth (with numerous combinations also being a possibility).
From 4Q01 to 3Q03, Comcast (including AT&T Broadband prior to 4Q02) has added an average of 338,000 internet subscribers per quarter. Historically, they can make up for the loss of 24,000 subscribers in less than a week. If there is nothing stopping them from culling the subscribers who make them less money, the only risk is damage to Comcast's persona in the eyes of the public.
As a side note, there appears to be somewhat of a disparity between the News listing and the actual article. It is not clear in Contra Costa Times article that the "letters" being referred to are actually "disconnection letters." My personal read of the article is that the letters are the initial "advisory" letters (essentially saying "mend your ways or else") rather than letters advising that the user's service is being disconnected. | |
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jarablue
Always be true to yourself
join:2001-06-11
Worcester, MA
1 edit | Hi Smokin Joe Bubbles. Nothing but troubles with smokin Joe bubbles. | |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY
| Hmm... They need to tell the public.. ohh no that would give to competition too much help.. so i guess now their commercials will sound like this "Comcast! Unimited!" and then tiny little text at the bottom of the screen with something like "unlimited time. not data".. HaHa | |
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Tekkanano
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Alexandria, VA | Throttle the milk baby! I wished Comcast was smart enough to throttle down the bandwidth of the user after they reached this so called invisible cap instead of sending letters or banning/supending accounts. | |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA | Re: Throttle the milk baby! Heh, FAP for cable! People coming from DirecWay would just love that!
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network | |
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Healbot
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Vancouver, WA | Re: Throttle the milk baby! This is nothing like the FAP from Dway.... 40 gig cap is ok with me. | |
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| | | sqinky
Premium
join:2001-01-24
Fernley, NV
| Re: Throttle the milk baby! I had DirecWay for almost 2 years...160 Meg every 4 hours pretty much sucked! SBC finally got around to us and I jumped on the DSL bandwagon as fast as I could. It's so much better now! Direcway served it's purpose when no other broadband option was present, but it doesn't stand up to DSL or cable. | |
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Albo
join:2002-09-06
Brooklyn, NY | Now this one cleared all the confusion this is just stupid is glad I don't have comcast | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| Unlimited? I imagine that when it was 1500k downloads(and fewer customers) that it was unlimited. But since they have ALOT more customers($) and now the higher speeds, they don't want to spend that($) on buying more capacity. Just knock off a few people that want what they signed up for, and let Joe Surfer/Joe email trickle along not even puting a load on the system and sell the excess to more Joe Surfers.
Hell, when I signed up the ad stated "Unlimited" in bold letters. I guess that stood for Unlimited Double Talk... | |
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
| Re: Unlimited? The download rate has been doubled from 1.5Mbps to 3.0 Mbps.
Do you think Comcast has needed to "spend that ($) on buying capacity"?
I don't download or surf or email anymore than I did, before.
Do you?
Do "most" of their customers?
So, I think any (aggregate) increase in bandwidth needed is very limited.
But I do love getting my web pages / downloads *twice* as fast!
I do wish they'd uncap it all the way to 10Mbps!
--
Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill | |
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rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Beverly Hills, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | what a loaf of CRAP from Comcast so when users use the service in a "UNLIMITED amount of minutes", they reach a point in which they go over the 100gig and fall in the trap.
besides the "consumption" of data does not necessarily cost them much specially if they were feeding it to their customers from within their own network
so their argument is FLAWED | |
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Healbot
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Vancouver, WA | Re: what a loaf of CRAP from Comcast Don't forget, the closer you get to the trap, another month comes by and the trap gets reset. 43200 minutes in a month.. | |
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Chinn
| What are you talking about??? Do you think that the majority of their traffic stays within their own network? Uh, no, that is not likely. Probably 10% or less. Remember that their email servers are not onsite at the local systems. Everybody else jumps on this thing called "the internet" To do this, they have POPS with national backbone providers (AT&T, Sprint, Level3, etc...) who charge approx. 80-100K for an OC48. I know of at least 8 of these in the Detroit Metropolitan area. I think that 6 of these are in full use, while the other pair are for overflow. When they overflow, they pay extra by the Gigabit.
So, yes, it does cost more when the majority of the traffic connects to the internet. Especially if there are those who do consume huge amounts of bandwidth. As others have stated, no network is designed for 100% throughput at all times. | |
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| | TheSharkster
join:2004-02-10
South Jordan, UT
| Good point, Chinn. And Comcast is not the only one that has most of their traffic going outside their network. I'm sure a lot of ISP's would gladly love to control bandwidth on their consumer base for that very reason. It's cheaper to house as much as possible on your own network instead of paying carriers huge amounts of money to send it over their networks.
Of course Comcast could try a remedy like AOL does and cache hundreds of sites and proprietary content on their proxy servers in Virginia and California, or they could just start charging a higher rate. Although, Comcast is not so much into the online content thing as AOL is. Comcast just wants to be an ISP.
Either way, I have no doubt that Comcast will pass their additional operating expenses onto their consumers. Every company that I know of does that. To them, that's just business as usual. | |
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copperdoctor
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Palatine, IL
| I agree with them... I can see Comcast users being confused by "unlimited" referring to per minute usage, and not downloads--- The same way Comcast misunderstood my "unlimited" bank account meaning how many checks I have, and not how much cash is actually in the bank. Heh.
The answer to this problem? DSL.
Cable has jumped the shark in my book, regardless of speed claims, the industry is just backwards in it's approach to customers. | |
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newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
1 edit | Then manage the network fairly, dammmit! quote:
Comcast spokesman Andrew Johnson says "While it's not our intent to shut off service to our customers, we have an obligation to the majority of our customers that we manage our network."
Why don't I see the abusive spamming zombied machines being shut down at least as much as the "bandwidth hogs".
You'll not answer that question, Comcast . . . because we all know that you choose to cherry-pick the enforcement of your AUP/TOS based on the bottom line of your P&L statement. Terminating "bandwidth hogs" adds profit to your bottom line, while terminating abusive subscribers would require a substantial initial ramping-up of your abuse department that would reduce profits on two fronts . . . the cost of an effective abuse department and the loss of subscribers once they begin axing the abusers.
--
The Rules of Spam | Maryland's New Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket? | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Then manage the network fairly, dammmit! quote:
Why don't I see the abusive spamming zombied machines being shut down at least as much as the "bandwidth hogs".
DING! | |
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WahhhWahh
@attbi.com
| Being a HOG is what broadband is all about! Here it comes! The bending and twisting of "What is broadband"! First,I got RAPED on the bundle for not buying into CATV and now they don't want you to download anything! What's next? Email and surfing only?
As soon as DSL hits my area I'll be gone like a fart in the wind! | |
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Pake
If you can read this.... RUN
join:2001-02-22
Huntersville, NC
·AT&T Southeast
| Ummm... Why don't people just call the customer server and ask them what the limit is. Be sure to connect a recorder up to the phone, that way when Comcast goes after you, you can just tell them you were told unlimited data stream by a sales rep and that is what you signed up for.
When sales man say it, and the company doesn't pull through, that's false advertising and is liable for major lawsuits. | |
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| Zorglub
join:2000-11-18
Fremont, CA | Re: Ummm... Or better, they just sign up for DSL (if they can) and dump that crappy company. Directv provides better service too.
At some point, their egregious behavior is bound to catch up with them. | |
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sorne guy
@66.84.x.x
| "Comcast, for its part, said it has sent the letters to less than 0.5 percent of its 4.8 million high-speed Internet subscribers in an effort to ensure that all its customers receive the same level of service."
that's still 24000 customers getting screwed out of a service that they paid a lot of money to have | |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
·Vonage
| Re: Ummm... said by sorne guy:
"Comcast, for its part, said it has sent the letters to less than 0.5 percent of its 4.8 million high-speed Internet subscribers in an effort to ensure that all its customers receive the same level of service."
that's still 24000 customers getting screwed out of a service that they paid a lot of money to have
......and then it'll be 0.5% of whatever customers are left and 0.5% of those, etc, etc.
They are just screwing themselves out of money instead of keeping those people and trying to resolve the problem.
Whoever thought cancelling a subscribers service would resolve this problem ought to be shot.
Good news for competitors though (opps, almost for, cable's a virtual monopoly, there is no competition bar DSL if you can get it). | |
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| | | Triumph2
join:2004-02-04
Seattle, WA | Re: Ummm... i highly doubt they are screwing themselves out of money....
money is their main objective here bud... so im sure that their decision to kick those customers, was done with that thought in mind. | |
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HOGS_should_be_CAPPE
@pacbell.n
thumbs down from:
koolman2
GNXPower
TJ_665
| There are definitely HOGS who need to be CAPPED! There are plenty of hogs who need to be CAP.
Tons of geeks and nerds on this forum who have NO life whatsoever but their fast net connection. So all they do is download and download and download. Of course they should be kicked off the network for ruining the experience for everyone else. I don't want my parents paying the same price as these hogs to subsidize these hogs. My parents probably use less than 1GB/month and they pay the same prices as these asses using 500GB a month. Anyone on cable caught using more than 5GB/month should be made to pay more. They need a Pro account which charge $150/month. Let them actually pay for what they are leeching off of others.
Comcast sucks in the first place, but at least they don't let other cheaters and leechers get away screwing the ma and pa laymen users.
Good for Comcast for having some guts! You suck but at least you got guts! Go Comcast! | |
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2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| RBOCs should make the commercials anyways If I were the RBOCs, I would make advertisements that say that the cable companies have caps RIGHT NOW. WHY WAIT TILL THEY SPECIFY THEM??!?!!?!? They clearly have the caps. What are they going to say? They don't have caps; it's false advertising. It's not like the cable companies don't advertise lies especially about satellite. This wouldn't be a lie at all. | |
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Pake
If you can read this.... RUN
join:2001-02-22
Huntersville, NC
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: RBOCs should make the commercials anyways For real.
Dictionary.com should do this:
»dictionary.reference.com/search?···levision
cable television
n.
A television distribution system in which station signals, picked up by elevated antennas, are delivered by cable to the receivers of subscribers. Also called cable TV, community antenna television, and lying sacks of ****
(Currently it only says cable tv and CAT)
Satellite > Cable. So what if my service goes out during a storm... just makes it so I can watch a good movie or two on DVD. Not to mention digital cable isn't even 100% digital. | |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs: | Dead and Horse and Flog Move on people, nothing to see here.
Hob | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA | Re: Dead and Horse and Flog Again...you are free to do so any time. | |
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8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA
| Comcast must use a different dictionary ! From Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
Main Entry: un·lim·it·ed
Pronunciation: -'li-m&-t&d
Function: adjective
1 : lacking any controls : UNRESTRICTED
2 : BOUNDLESS, INFINITE
3 : not bounded by exceptions : UNDEFINED
- un·lim·it·ed·ly adverb | |
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| BizFinancing
Premium
join:2003-01-10
Port Orchard, WA | Re: Comcast must use a different dictionary ! Rather than the FCC, I think the FTC should step in or better yet users should initiate a class action for false or misleading advertising. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| From Dictionary.com
unlimited
\Un*lim"it*ed\, a. 1. Not limited; having no bounds; boundless; as, an unlimited expanse of ocean.
2. Undefined; indefinite; not bounded by proper exceptions; as, unlimited terms. ``Nothing doth more prevail than unlimited generalities.'' --Hooker.
3. Unconfined; not restrained; unrestricted. | |
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| | mlody
join:2000-07-26
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Comcast must use a different dictionary ! reboot your cable modem every week and stop whining!!! | |
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furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA
| Re: Comcast must use a different dictionary ! said by mlody :
reboot your cable modem every week and stop whining!!!
And that would do what, exactly? Modem usage isn't kept on the CM itself. | |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·Teliax VOIP
·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| Then define... I guess I see some points being made to define there limits. So Comcast comes out and says 5 gigs a month is the limit, how many Comcast customers would be happy with that? Leaving the limits un-defined make more customers happy than defining them. More than 99% of Comcast subscribers don't give a crap about this argument because they are not streaming 300 gigs a month. Plus they still get little flak by terminating a few customers here and there that are raping the connection. (Lets not BS here, the people terminated are streaming a ton of data and using the connection far more than a normal person does).
Looking at it like a business would it makes sense to satisfy 4,560,000 customers and ticking off less than 48,000 customers by not defining caps. Why make way more than that un-happy by defining caps when you keep 4,000,000 happy the way it is?
I remeber a time when getting 1.5 megs download cost you more than $2,000 month. Now you can get the same speed for under $100 a month. To keep costs down you have to be ready to eliminate 40,000 customers when you have over 4,000,000 to keep the majority happy.
Some people do not know what they have. | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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Unmetered
@fl.sprint-hsd
| Unmetered is the correct term for per-minute .... Unmetered is the common term for Internet data services that are not charged per-minute, not unlimited. Any ISP knows that so they are playing with words and playing with their customers.
This all goes back to why cable sucks to begin with. It is shared at a low capacity nodes instead of the backbone and causes these issues, a few users causing a whole network to slowdown. (snowball) Glad I got DSL. | |
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | how convenient for them. i have always maintained that comcast sucks. having no other BB option in my neighborhood, i have to bend over and take it like everyone else.
--
fat people should be called skinny cause they have more skin. | |
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Comcast Speaks on Invisible Caps
As usual, they just dont get it...
:o:o
Constant connection == unlimited use?