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Enter the Matrix
State to state debate over database

The creation of the MATRIX (Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange), a national database accessible only to law enforcement via secure fiber, has created a serious dispute among states being urged to participate. The system would incorporate a wide variety of personal data (from vehicle registrations and licenses to tax data and web domain ownership records) into one massive networked database. Organizers have been travelling state to state pitching the benefits of the system, reports Wired News.

While law enforcement argues the system could prove invaluable in combating terrorism and crime, questions surrounding privacy are everywhere. The ACLU argues the project is simply a rebirth of the "Total Information Awareness" program scrapped because of privacy concerns (see Security Focus report). This Utah Deseret Morning News report even makes unsubstantiated claims the system sold personal information to American Express for marketing purposes (Utah has since halted their involvement in the project).

All of the information is/will be warehoused in the offices of Seisint Inc. in Boca Raton, Florida. That data is then transferred via the Regional Information Sharing Systems network (RISS), a secure law enforcement WAN that ferries data between police and various government agencies.
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doppler
join:2003-03-31
Blue Point, NY

1 edit

doppler

Member

What with the government and nice sounding words

And since it's for law enforcement use. They will
of course make it insecure.

Civil liberties down the tubes also.
beers90125
join:2003-07-24
Kankakee, IL

beers90125

Member

Re: What with the government and nice sounding words

And the information is stored by a private company. Hmmmm.

Like private companies haven't misused or sold "priviledged information" before.

ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana

ronpin

Member

Re: What with the government and nice sounding wor

We must launch a pre-emptive strike now to stop the evil-doers and the asses of evil before they get stronger (hey, it worked for them)

The Troll
@68.249.x.x

The Troll to doppler

Anon

to doppler
The owner of Seisint is Hank Asher, an alleged former drug smuggler. More disturbing is that, according to the following news article, background investigations of Seisint employees were only undertaken in August 2003, one year after they began working on the MATRIX program. Most disturbing is that the developers of MATRIX are considering giving the CIA access to this database; information Congress barred the CIA from having access to in the 1970s.

www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030924.gtsecsep24/ BNStory/Technology

roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

roamer1

Member

Here in the Peach State...

Gov. Perdue has said "NO" to Georgia being part of the Matrix...

»www.ajc.com/metro/conten ··· rix.html

-SC
apsinkus
join:2002-06-25
Chicago, IL

apsinkus

Member

Funny but....

You know, NSA and CIA had this all data for a long time
Government is like pornstars - trying to go legit-mainstream, but it ain't that easy.
On the hardware side, at least some IT people are getting jobs in this country, though at what cost to privacy.

LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium Member
join:2002-08-03
Midlothian, VA

LegoPower77

Premium Member

Re: Funny but....

said by apsinkus:
On the hardware side, at least some IT people are getting jobs in this country, though at what cost to privacy.
Nah, the eeevil profiteers will soon enough outsource much of the work to India.
doppler
join:2003-03-31
Blue Point, NY

doppler to apsinkus

Member

to apsinkus
said by apsinkus:
You know, NSA and CIA had this all data for a long time
Government is like pornstars - trying to go legit-mainstream, but it ain't that easy.
On the hardware side, at least some IT people are getting jobs in this country, though at what cost to privacy.

Yes the NSA And CIA has all this data. But You I and
every other tom dick and harry doesn't get to look at it.
What they are doing is just that.
muecker
join:2003-07-20
Littleton, CO

muecker

Member

Codename: Echelon

Isn't this already being done?

Or, is the Matrix just the 'public' story?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 edit

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Codename: Echelon

Echelon is different, classified, global, and much older.

»www.fas.org/irp/program/ ··· elon.htm

Only used by NSA and CIA spooks (and to allegedly screw Airbus out of contracts claims some at the UN)....

God
THE Dslr Troll
Premium Member
join:2002-07-01
Colorado Springs, CO

God to muecker

Premium Member

to muecker
the matrix has us ....

searching........

hacker found

die hacker die

= )


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

Creating SPAM?

This Utah Deseret Morning News report even makes unsubstantiated claims the system sold personal information to American Express for marketing purposes (Utah has since halted their involvement in the project).

Is this where I am getting my American Express SPAM from? I have never had a credit card from anyone, never bought anything on credit from anywhere, but I get SPAM from American Express 2-3 times a week.

Hmmm...

ChrisDAT
djSpinnerCee
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY

ChrisDAT

Member

I Understand the Problem...

Whenever anyone attempts to standardize data in an organization, it's a difficult enough task -- Now, here comes big bro, saying gimme your data -- It's obvious that every DMV in the US probably uses a different system, and that probably goes for "most" of the other data sources that this MATRIX is attempting to aggregate.

What may kill this effort entirely, is that the most secure systems are proprietary, in that they don't have documentation and message boards all over the internet giving up all the application's secrets and weaknesses. This will become a serious issue for local governments that will be forced[?] to standardize some of their data so that the data can be queried from a single "big bro" application.

In IT that always causes problems, just because data formats vary wildly just with respect to names and numbers -- in order for the aggregation to be of any use, it cannot just be collected and warehoused somewhere becasue most of the data is critically dynamic -- doing incremental "extractions" will not even cut it.

The network is the "easy" part, only because data transfer is standardized by protocols -- data [good data], the most important piece of this puzzle will prove to be more elusive than it may appear.

Even the best in the business can't seem to get this right -- Has anyone ever "exported" an MS-Word document produced with MS-WordPad and seen the "mess" you end up with when you open or, much worse print, the document in MS-Word -- It's just not pretty at all.

Tomek
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

Tomek

Premium Member

Terrorists and others benefiting from it

The access to database will be compromised by some Terrorist hacker and then what?
All of our personal private information will be available for all kinds of crimes. Centralized system may have some advantages, but security concerns are too big.

Shaitan0
Premium Member
join:2004-01-12
Foldsville

Shaitan0

Premium Member

Re: Terrorists and others benefiting from it

they want to fight terrorism by stockpiling everything that they need is in one place?

C'MON AMERICA WAKE UP!!!

PunkGod
join:2003-02-02

PunkGod

Member

Re: Terrorists and others benefiting from it

said by Shaitan0:
they want to fight terrorism by stockpiling everything that they need is in one place?

C'MON AMERICA WAKE UP!!!

Americans are awake, its the government thats ahsleep

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to Tomek

Premium Member

to Tomek
In this new age, anyone who is a "hacker" of anything (Even their own hardware) already _is_ a terrorist.

Bow down. Consume. Obey. Do not ask questions.
yabos
join:2003-02-16
London, ON

yabos

Member

Not going to help

This, along with most if not all the other anti-terrorism laws aren't going to help one bit. They keep trying to push all these bills through which are only for the purpose of controlling the citizens and using terrorism as the push to get it through.

The US is becoming more of a police state day by day.

vrp
vrp
Premium Member
join:2002-12-05
terra

vrp

Premium Member

Re: Not going to help

said by yabos:
... The US is becoming more of a police state day by day. ...

... this one line sums it up ...

.

Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD

1 recommendation

Cuchulainn

Member

How is This Going to Help Catch Terrorists?

Excuse me if I'm missing something but how is a massive database of vehicle registrations, licenses, credit card information, payment/non-payment, web domain registration, Jell-o coupon redemption, etc. going to pinpoint terrorists??

Simple answer - it isn't. This is a red herring if ever there was one. All it's going to be used for is to harass law-abiding citizens like us.

As I have said before, Ashcroft thinks the real enemy is THE AMERICAN CITIZEN. Plain and simple.

Vote Bush and his cronies out while you still can..before they decide that the exercise of the democratic franchise (i.e, voting) supports "al-KAI-dah" and "Turrorism."
rx7mike
join:2004-01-23
West Bend, WI

rx7mike

Member

Re: How is This Going to Help Catch Terrorists?

I could see this being a very bad thing. I'm a very active person and do a lot of things they might look for in a terrorist. Although I'm not one but surfing through my information would send up a red flag on me I'm sure. I've taken flying lessons, sky diving, and buy at least 1 riffle or hand gun a year. I keep 90% of my money liquid(cash), and have very few credit cards. I'm sure they will have software running looking for something exactly like that. So because I'm a fairly well to do american and can pretty much do as I please I'm a terrorist? I visit other countries once a year. I could see this being a major invasion of privacy. I would definately be scrutinized. I imagine they would look to see just exactly how many guns I own as well. I have 3 gun cabinets full. I just like guns. Oh yeah dont ever try and rob my house. You will get shot The goverment needs to be what it was intended to be. Run by the people, for the people, not run by the greedy corporations for the greedy politicians.
dda
Premium Member
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA

dda

Premium Member

Re: How is This Going to Help Catch Terrorists?

Suffice it to say that I agree with you 100%. There is a reason we have the Bill of Rights and those protections are needed now, more than ever.

But the real reason I posted is I had an RX-7; what an amazing car it was, too. I was so sad when they discontinued them in the US and quite pleased that they are gonna return.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to Cuchulainn

Premium Member

to Cuchulainn
said by Cuchulainn:
Vote Bush and his cronies out while you still can..before they decide that the exercise of the democratic franchise (i.e, voting) supports "al-KAI-dah" and "Turrorism."
Nah, they don't think voting supports Terrorists. Only the people who don't vote for THEM support terrorists....

Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD

2 edits

Cuchulainn

Member

Re: How is This Going to Help Catch Terrorists?

said by KrK:
said by Cuchulainn:
Vote Bush and his cronies out while you still can..before they decide that the exercise of the democratic franchise (i.e, voting) supports "al-KAI-dah" and "Turrorism."
Nah, they don't think voting supports Terrorists. Only the people who don't vote for THEM support terrorists....

I assume by the smile you agree with me??

I don't support terrorism any more than I support the gutting of the Constitution practiced by Bush and his cronies. Saying that the government is wrong is not traitorous....it's the ultimate exercise of freedom:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable." -- Teddy Roosevelt
""Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." --Daniel Webster

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK

Premium Member

Re: How is This Going to Help Catch Terrorists?

Exactly. Excellent quotes, BTW.

Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD

Cuchulainn

Member

Re: How is This Going to Help Catch Terrorists?



Whew!

I'd composed a pretty stroppy reply and then I read your post one more time: I'm glad I did.

I also remembered that you and I have seen eye to eye in the past.

The Teddy Roosevelt quote is one of my favorites. It's a really good reply to the "9/11 Patriots" out there

iam me
Cunnilingus Is Next To Godliness
Premium Member
join:2001-08-05
Ojai, CA

iam me to Cuchulainn

Premium Member

to Cuchulainn
Get free clues [here]

Uhawl
-- watching --
Premium Member
join:2000-10-21
Asylum

Uhawl

Premium Member

Is it 1984 already?

Big Brother is watching.......

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium Member
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

1 edit

Radio Active

Premium Member

Re: Is it 1984 already?

said by Uhawl:
Big Brother is watching.......

Don't suspect your friends... Report them.

(Or was that from "Brazil?")

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

"Hey if you've done nothing wrong, why worry...."

There goes what little privacy we have left, if we had any to begin with.....

aeagle
@rr.com

aeagle

Anon

Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

yeah RIAA would be the first company to use that network to find user address and tec..

richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium Member
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith

richk_1957 to woody7

Premium Member

to woody7
said by woody7:
"Hey if you've done nothing wrong, why worry...."

The problem is with the definition of the word 'wrong'
The definition is becoming so vague that almost anything is 'wrong', somewhere. So it doesn't matter if you and/or local authorities think, it's what some else thinks.

texans20
Premium Member
join:2002-09-28
Texas!

texans20

Premium Member

Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

said by richk_1957:
said by woody7:
"Hey if you've done nothing wrong, why worry...."

The problem is with the definition of the word 'wrong'
The definition is becoming so vague that almost anything is 'wrong', somewhere. So it doesn't matter if you and/or local authorities think, it's what some else thinks.

I can't wait until I piss off a cop in town because I am dating his ex g/f, he gets on this database finds out about info and uses it against me. How long before it's abused in such a manner as my example?
smalfish
join:2004-01-17
Dallas, TX

smalfish

Member

just like orwell and

mark twain predicted.the government has evaded it jurisprudence and gone off the deep end.I've done alot of reasearch into this and cant find anything about this company thats doing the data storage,other than jeb bush is for it that must mean dubya is the gang leader.another intresting tidbit i think goes along side this issue is the proposal in the house of cheaters err representatives is the militaraation of the police.they want to put cia spooks in the local police departments.

»www.demilitarizethepolic ··· rms.com/

if you dont go to another web site today go here its frightening because it isnt being proposed by the neocons its being proposed by a democrat.whats the world comming to when the dems want to take away our rights?

jferello
J
Premium Member
join:2001-03-12
Hatboro, PA

1 edit

jferello

Premium Member

Correction

Actually the data is stored at FDLE, not Seisint.

Also every state in the US has a database of all this information already. The only MATRIX is doing is combining all the information into one large usable databse for LE.

As far as network security goes, no one has yet to comprimise the RISS system and I can tell you for a fact no one without a lot of talent and hardware will ever be able to comprimise it.

•••••••

Theo25
@attbi.com

Theo25

Anon

I'm all for it

I don't care if anyone has information stored or not, the only people that are concerned about being watched are those that are up to no good. Whatever needs to be done to make things safer is good as far as I'm concerned.