Video GiantsReal Networks Sues Microsoft ( old news - 06:18PM Friday Dec 19 2003) tags: legal · Video · competitionRealNetworks this week filed a $1 billion antitrust suit against Microsoft, alleging the company used its operating system monopoly as a launch-bed for anti-competitive behavior. With the growth of broadband the battle for video supremacy has reached a fevered pitch. According to the suit, RealNetworks claims Microsoft "pursued a broad course of predatory conduct over a period of years by abusing its monopoly power, resulting in substantial lost revenue and business for RealNetworks." The primary complaint, as noted by the Associated Press, is Microsoft's inclusion of its Media Player with windows whether consumers "want it or not". "There is vibrant competition in this marketplace and Real Networks' own reported growth shows that they have thrived on Windows and many other operating platforms," Microsoft responded in a statement. According to Neilsen/NetRatings stats from October, Microsoft's Media Player had 33% of the market (44.6 million users), with Real Player accounting for 19% (26.2 million users). According to the lawsuit, Microsoft's Media Player is pre-installed on 95% of all new computers, compared to less than 2% for Real Player.
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 SystemE
join:2003-11-06 | Microsoft Wow, I'm supporting Microsoft on this one. Even WMP is waaaaaay better than that sh*t RealNetworks puts out. | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
 ·Internet Nebraska
| Re: Microsoft said by SystemE  :
Wow, I'm supporting Microsoft on this one. Even WMP is waaaaaay better than that sh*t RealNetworks puts out.
I agree. This is a case I hope Microsoft wins.
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I am the beginning. I am the end. I am forever, and I will continue to exist long after everything, even hope itself, has been destroyed. | |
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Anti_Cyrix
Premium
join:2003-03-06
Sacramento, CA | Re: Microsoft Ooooh... Going against microsoft? This should be fun to watch. | |
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shell2600
Just A Shell
join:2002-05-22
Sea Cliff, NY
| Re: Microsoft It's not about which player is better, it's about whether or not Microsoft was cashing in on their media player "bundleability". Which player is better is quite simply irrelevant.
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One who defies conformity conforms to defiance. | |
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Ronnie123
Premium
join:2003-03-11
Springtown, TX
| Re: Microsoft i think it's a dangerous trend to punish companies simply for giving people the features they want. If microsoft hired some goons to burn down the real network offices... or threatened media providers with retribution for releasing media in real format.. that would be one thing. But simply adding a media player to their operating system is a different issue entirely.
If media player wasn't included with windows and i had a choice of downloading real player or MP, i would still be using media player.... because it s better. I have both.. I'm sure most people do. But if i see media for download in both formats, i choose the windows media player file every single time.
I felt the same way about netscape... If they want people to use their software instead of the software included with the operating system they should make it better.... not cry because their software isn't good enough to be competitive.
Next thing you know some playing card company will sue microsoft for "bundling" solitaire with windows. | |
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Speedy8
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
clubs: | Re: Microsoft I agree 100%. Maybe Corel will sue microsoft for notepad/wordpad going against wordperfect! | |
| | | | | | switchd
join:2003-12-17
Hollidaysburg, PA
| quote:
i think it's a dangerous trend to punish companies simply for giving people the features they want.
Features they want?!? I don't want WMP on my machine period. If a video I want to see is wma format, I won't watch it or will find another version of it. There are plenty of better formats available.
quote:
I felt the same way about netscape... If they want people to use their software instead of the software included with the operating system they should make it better.... not cry because their software isn't good enough to be competitive.
I use Netscape and in my opinion it is far superior to IE in features, security, aesthetics and reliability. I also like the way Mail, Composer, Address Book and Navigator are so integrated into one aesthetically pleasing and functional application.
There is no simple way to completely uninstall IE or WMP from Windows. I don't like them and don't need them taking up space on my HD. What kind of OS is Windows if it doesn't function properly just because you remove a program?!
This is just my opinion. I know there are people that don't agree but there are also people who agree completely and that is the why we are supposed to have a choice along with the fact that competition drives innovation. MS isn't going to further browser or video technology if there is no reason to. This is all just my humble opinion.
peace | |
| | | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Microsoft keywords there your opinion.
This lawsuit is a total farce. Then microsoft can counter sue claiming real and AOL don't bundle WMP with AOL. This is getting out of hand and this is just how the United states is turning no one works for a living they all sue to get what others have. It's sickening. They wonder why our jobs are being exported to other countries and the economy is in the crapper. God help us all if this one floats.
It stinks !!! And I hate it!!!
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This package does not contain a winner... | |
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Ronnie123
Premium
join:2003-03-11
Springtown, TX | you have the choice not to use windows if you don't like it. Microsoft sells neither air nor water. | |
| | | | | | | | switchd
join:2003-12-17
Hollidaysburg, PA
| Re: Microsoft That is true. Fortunately, about a month ago I purchased a Powerbook G4 after almost 8 years of using various windows machines. MS has made the system better with every new os it has released but it is safe to say (IMO) it doesn't match up to OS X and I personally am never going back.
live the weekend
peace | |
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Yeahwhatever
@comcast.n
| If you don't like it don't use it. To me, they are mirror images of themselfs. What one does the other does exactly the same. I don't prefer any one media program, just whatever the media itself request I use. I have 4 different media programs on my windows based machine. I would like to only have to use just 1 but unfortunalty that is not the case. I'm sure that if a poll was taken, 90% of windows users have 2 or more media players on their pc and of that 90%, 89% have realplayer. this is retarded. Microsoft should just bundle everything in one HUGH pakage, that way people would complain about the size of the install. I take that back, Microsoft would just get sued for elusively placing the install file or something. What a load of crap. Microsoft is just playing the game better than it's competitors. nuf said!! I hate sore losers! The world would not be where it is today if it were not for Microsoft. | |
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rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Beverly Hills, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Microsoft said by Yeahwhatever:
If you don't like it don't use it. To me, they are mirror images of themselfs. What one does the other does exactly the same. I don't prefer any one media program, just whatever the media itself request I use. I have 4 different media programs on my windows based machine. I would like to only have to use just 1 but unfortunalty that is not the case. I'm sure that if a poll was taken, 90% of windows users have 2 or more media players on their pc and of that 90%, 89% have realplayer. this is retarded. Microsoft should just bundle everything in one HUGH pakage, that way people would complain about the size of the install. I take that back, Microsoft would just get sued for elusively placing the install file or something. What a load of crap. Microsoft is just playing the game better than it's competitors. nuf said!! I hate sore losers! The world would not be where it is today if it were not for Microsoft.
I'm right there with you. I've tried like 8 of them and NOT one of them has all the features I'm looking for.
since this topic is about WMP it dos NOT do CDDB lookups, so 50% of the CD's you own you can't rip with the right ID3 tags in them because in Microsoft's own MONOPOLISTIC mind if they don't own it, they won't use it, and they will make a half ass version until they bankrupt the original one
they have managed to get more companies to make plug in for them thatn any other and this makes WMP bettter in that respect, then ofcourse there was the old Real player that was actually a VERY good product until they went to the real 1 and real2 I bought those and SPECIFICALLY said no to the contant rebilling to my credit card BUT somehow they did anyway, this took a couple of phone calls to resolve, with no refund on what I was charged. has anyone noticed how WELL they hide the fact you are going to get charged 9.99 a month for music?
also why the heck is there no STANDARD to these plug ins so that one will work with WMP or WINAMP or REAL ?
I love the fraunhoffer plug in I bought for WMP, it is awesome in speed and quality, but only works with it.
real one does NOT have a quality mp3 encoder made on the fraunhoffer engine, intead they use LAME or some other not so great and slower encoder.
so we are ALL screwed on this sunject too.
10 years from now Microsoft will have bankrupted CDDB and just buy it out as usual........ | |
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Yeahwhatever
@comcast.n
| Re: Microsoft If you going to argue that point then how about Realnetworks to make thier own OS... yeah I thought so...
not likely to happen... The whole point here is MS made an OS, a product that they can do with what they want. If you want to make a software company and try to improve on something that MS has already done, you do so at your own risk; if you lose money in your venture then quit or make a better, or different app... nuff said! Like I said there would be no RealNetworks if it were not for MS..... | |
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lazarus_
join:2002-08-31
Resolute, NU
2 edits | Re: Microsoft said by Yeahwhatever:
If you going to argue that point then how about Realnetworks to make thier own OS... yeah I thought so...
not likely to happen... The whole point here is MS made an OS, a product that they can do with what they want. If you want to make a software company and try to improve on something that MS has already done, you do so at your own risk; if you lose money in your venture then quit or make a better, or different app... nuff said! Like I said there would be no RealNetworks if it were not for MS.....
Thats not true.. M$ releases products that are included in their OS for the fact that they can. They dont want any competition and release media player, wordpad, outlook , IE and all the other buggy, exploitable crap that they don't even support with expedient patches for the simple reason to keep other companies from having success.. I hate real networks but they do have a case and I think its legit..
Fight the Powa! \m/=[-_-]=\m/
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It's a once in a lifetime thing that only happens every so often. | |
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georgermct
Sony H D T V
join:2000-05-12
Bridgeport, CT
| Ummm...this is pretty stupid on Reals part. I have WMP, RealOne & QuickTime. I wasn't forced to use ONLY WMP so what's Reals issue? Hell, if I developed an OS and also developed other software, I sure would bundle things together.
As long as we have a choice and can install and use any media player (including any/all software), what's the big deal? Microsoft didn't say we can't use other products on their OS...so what gives Real any right to cry foul?
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Forum Posts: 775, OOL Member Since - 10/18/00 | |
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rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Beverly Hills, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Verizon FIOS
| said by georgermct :
Ummm...this is pretty stupid on Reals part. I have WMP, RealOne & QuickTime. I wasn't forced to use ONLY WMP so what's Reals issue? Hell, if I developed an OS and also developed other software, I sure would bundle things together.
As long as we have a choice and can install and use any media player (including any/all software), what's the big deal? Microsoft didn't say we can't use other products on their OS...so what gives Real any right to cry foul?
they make a living SELLING real player and it's backend services.
along comes MS and sees them making a living and they decide, to make a media player and give it away for FREE.
we win (for now) and they bankrupt realnetworks.
they have done this time and again with several products, and all those companies are here no more
they stole the look and feel of AMIPRO back when WORD was the biggest embarresment of software on the planet, today word not only looks and feels like AMIPRO, but MS broke that company who ended up giving it away to Lotus, and then ran Lotus into the ground, until IBM rescued them.
do you remeber way back when Excel was a piece of crap? and Lotus 123 was the "spread" to use? they copied every good thing in it , then they gave it away in the office suite, forcing all others to sell office suites
you really need to stand back and look at their predatory manuevers better. the list is long and distinguished
bottom line is they WON the war by buying every politician they could and heavy handing those they can't buy.
it does not hurt that Bill's daddy is rubbing elbows with Presidents either
I still prefer Windows 2000 to Linux, but what goes around comes back around to BYTE you in the behind, not that I'm wishing them bad, just that this spectator sport is about to get exciting, Linux and OpenOffice may just get the last laugh (10 years from now  ) | |
| | | djcalico
join:2003-12-02
Sewell, NJ | LOL.. i agree... Real just really blows... lol:) | |
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lazarus_
join:2002-08-31
Resolute, NU
| said by SystemE :
Wow, I'm supporting Microsoft on this one. Even WMP is waaaaaay better than that sh*t RealNetworks puts out.
I think both programs are crap.. I never use RealPlayer or media player..
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It's a once in a lifetime thing that only happens every so often. | |
| | | vlad7
join:2002-12-30
| Re: Microsoft said by lazarus_ :
said by SystemE :
Wow, I'm supporting Microsoft on this one. Even WMP is waaaaaay better than that sh*t RealNetworks puts out.
I think both programs are crap.. I never use RealPlayer or media player..
Yeah, both programs are crap, but I think real player is worse than windows media player.
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Try Mozilla FireBird! | |
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ks_av8r
Premium
join:2003-09-17
Newton, KS
| Here too! After the spouse let Real Player upgrade to Realone and my firewall lit up like a xmas tree for all the phoning home it wanted to do, I dumped the whole POS. Spent time cleaning the registry and restoring the system files through system file checker that it either deleted or overwrote.
So all the websites that use Real only, we are not able to view their media.
I have been thinking of reloading (oldversion) Real 7 just for Oprah (due to spousal pressure).
Instead of sueing MS maybe Real should merge with Gator and Bonzi Buddy. | |
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lazarus_
join:2002-08-31
Resolute, NU
| Re: Microsoft said by ks_av8r :
Here too! After the spouse let Real Player upgrade to Realone and my firewall lit up like a xmas tree for all the phoning home it wanted to do, I dumped the whole POS. Spent time cleaning the registry and restoring the system files through system file checker that it either deleted or overwrote.
So all the websites that use Real only, we are not able to view their media.
I have been thinking of reloading (oldversion) Real 7 just for Oprah (due to spousal pressure).
Instead of sueing MS maybe Real should merge with Gator and Bonzi Buddy.
K-lite site used to have a Quicktime and realplayer plugins that you could use w/ the old mplayer1. The only thing is that you cant play streaming media.. no big loss since you can use net transport to download most streams. hehe
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It's a once in a lifetime thing that only happens every so often. | |
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
2 edits | All your data (and biz plans) are belong to Microsoft
RECOMMENDED READING
»www.MicroSUCK.COM.
»www.microsuck.com/content/whatsbad.shtml
»www.yarbles.demon.co.uk/mssniff.html
»www.microsoftsucks.com/
»www.macintouch.com/o98security.html
»slashdot.org/
Microsoft's Really Hidden Files: A New Look at Forensics
»sillydog.org/mshidden.html
All your data (and biz plans) are belong to Microsoft
With Microsoft's HailStorm .NET initiative hinging on the company's very own PassPort service, you'd think Redmond would be bending over backwards to stress the confidentially of user information.
Well, if that's the case, it hasn't started yet.
The current Passport Terms of Use agreement not only fails to guarantee confidentially, but actually gives Microsoft and its business partners the right to own your information, and do pretty much what they want with it. That encompasses all your Hotmail and MSN Messenger communications today.
As the Terms state:
"By posting messages, uploading files, inputting data, submitting any feedback or suggestions, or engaging in any other form of communication
with or through the Passport Web Site ... you are granting Microsoft and its affiliated companies permission to:
1. Use, modify, copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, reproduce, publish, sublicense, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any such communication.
2. Sublicense to third parties the unrestricted right to exercise any of the foregoing rights granted with respect to the communication.
3. Publish your name in connection with any such communication."
»www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/18002.html
MS ID number system could track all Windows users
»www.theregister.co.uk/content/ar···079.html | |
| | | hottboiinnnc
join:2003-08-27
Fremont, OH
| Re: All your data belong to Microsoft True this does not have anything to do with the postings. And then also what company doesnt sell your information anymore. AOL does? So what makes MS any different? AOL sells your Internet surfing habbits and sells those? but also look at GAIN as well? Those do as well
So why just target MS.. just because they offer better products then others and why sit and sue them over it? And its only time for Linux to find them selves in court as well. | |
| | ditka_b
Premium
join:2001-10-05
Barrington, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| This has nothing to do with Microsofts player vs Real player.
Microsoft has a huge advantage being built into the fiber of the operating system as they did destroying Netscape.
Its whether MS colluded to unfairly interfere with Real player and they have hugely over the years, You may recall patches after MS Operating systems were introduced that "allowed" Real player to function properly.
Microsoft has and continues to illegally use their operating system to Monopolize and steal revenue from smaller companies. (Netscape ring any bells?)
SP2 is reported to have a full fledged Firewall (Who's the next to sue??)
Microsoft should build operating systems and sell their add on software not run others out of business with their operating system. | |
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Ronnie123
Premium
join:2003-03-11
Springtown, TX
| Re: Microsoft said by ditka_b :
Microsoft should build operating systems and sell their add on software not run others out of business with their operating system.
no thank you.. i prefer to get these things for free. I applaud Microsoft for being on the ball and making a lot of software free that i would otherwise have had to pay for. I really don't see how that makes them the bad guy. How about ashtray companies sue car makers for bundling? or radio manufacturers.. they would have as valid a case as real does.. or netscape does did. They however handled it correctly.. they want you to buy their car stereos even though your car comes with one... so they make theirs better.. and have a booming business selling them. | |
| | | | ditka_b
Premium
join:2001-10-05
Barrington, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Microsoft The "free" thing MS gives you are trash(see internet connection firewall) and have to be cleaned out of your system\turned off ect... The things you pay for work "ok".
Id like a choice of other things from other makers. When Microsoft Kills a Netscape or Real player that choice goes away and using their Operating system to kill them is Illegal and should be stopped.
I dont want to have a crap firewall or anything else forced on me with my operating system. | |
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Ronnie123
Premium
join:2003-03-11
Springtown, TX | Re: Microsoft no.. it isn't illegal at all to give people more features in a piece of software. Companies who are unable to make a competitive product have just said that enough times to make you think believe it is an actual law. | |
| | | | | | ditka_b
Premium
join:2001-10-05
Barrington, IL | Re: Microsoft Monopolizing is illegal(anti-trust violation anyone?) and they have many times been brought to task for anti-competitive behaviour. It is illegal and thats why they are getting sued and will settle or lose again. Not that they care.. | |
| | | | | | | Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI | Re: Microsoft LOL as much as people would hate it if ms did that, then eventuallly some linux or other type of OS would take over. | |
| | | | ditka_b
Premium
join:2001-10-05
Barrington, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Dude you download 100 megs of crap every week BECAUSE of Microsoft and the lack of a secure operating system.
If they had it patched from the start you wouldnt see 20 new updates at windowsupdate.microsoft.com each and every day/week. If you want a secure system then you're downloading almost daily from windows update 3-4 days after your system has been vulnerable to another security hack. If you're not going to windows update your part of the problem not the solution.
I think its time you woke up LOL | |
| | | | dweeb
join:2002-06-23
Ferndale, MI | I agree. Realplayer is the biggest pile of crap out there. | |
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Beyond_1986
join:2003-08-06 | 1 billion dollars???? That's why I sometime hate about the court thing, because people can sue you for those little stupid thing. Just think about it, when you're a billionaire, it's pretty hard to get away with people sueing you for money. | |
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Rambo76098
join:2003-02-21
Pataskala, OH
| said by SystemE :
Wow, I'm supporting Microsoft on this one. Even WMP is waaaaaay better than that sh*t RealNetworks puts out.
Exactly! WMP may not be great but it sure beats the crap out of anything Ive ever seen come out of REAL.
Just cause they can't keep up and make a product that people will use, because its not crap, doesn't mean that taking the maker of a better product to court will solve anything. They need to concentrate on making a better product, not feeble attempts at bringing down a somewhat useful one! | |
| | 
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| My Vaio came with several media players installed Real Player was one of them. I have all of them still installed as well as many others I have came across over time. So what's all of the biotching about...they all have their shortcomings. I use the one that suits my needs at the given time...WMP 9 is a little better than REAL but not by much. | |
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titanium
Titanium
join:2000-05-25
West Richland, WA
·Verizon Online DSL
| jeez i hate this whole thing... im not for or against m$, but i think that if i MADE the operating system, i would put whatever the hell i wanted in it -- its mine, you cant tell me what to and what not to put in it, if you dont want it -- dont buy it, simple as that.. as for real networks losing $1bn, how about they make their own operating system and see how much they lose then since they want their player used so badly... its not like you HAVE to use windows media player; yes it comes pre-installed with your windows installation -- but oh my, how hard is it if say you actually wanted to use real player is it to install real player and make the file assocations go with it? not that freakin' hard... these companies now a days need to grow up; its because of them that so many individuals make stupid ass law suits like the fat people suing mcdonalds. | |
| | tdp17
join:2001-04-24
Charlotte, NC
| Re: jeez EXACTLY!!!, Hello! someone finally sees it my way too. I thought I was the only one who thinks just like titaniumTM here. All the companies that sue Microsoft just can't face the fact that they (the suing companies) don't have the brains, motivation, research, and development that Microsoft puts so much effort into. Maybe these suing companies should stop crying, and start real competition. | |
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C_
Kill The Socialists
Premium
join:2001-03-19 | best post ever | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska
| The Problem Microsoft has become a money pinata. Now if a software company fails to reap gross profits, they blame Microsoft even if it's not their fault and sue them.
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I am the beginning. I am the end. I am forever, and I will continue to exist long after everything, even hope itself, has been destroyed. | |
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pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| Re: The Problem said by ArchAngel21x :
Microsoft has become a money pinata. Now if a software company fails to reap gross profits, they blame Microsoft even if it's not their fault and sue them.
You are absolutely correct. The purpose of antitrust laws is to protect competition itself, not to protect bad competitors from good ones. When people buy a computer, they want it to work out of the box, and for it to be complete. That includes the ability to play media files. The Fed would rather you have to go looking for software to complete your package, and then tout how much it has helped the consumer. Imagine buying a Chevy that was mandated to have a Ford steering wheel. Or better yet, NO steering wheel. You had to go shopping for that after you bought the car in the interest of competition.
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Listen to the music! | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE | Also I wonder, does this mean makers of video editing software will sue Microsoft because Windows XP has Movie Maker? | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska
| Re: The Problem Ok how about this. The CEO of Real dressing up like Dr. Evil and calling Bill Gates on a video phone. The conversation going something like this...
Gates: Hello?
CEO: This is Dr. Evil. I want you to code Real Player into Windows!
Gates: That will never happen.
CEO: Then I have no choice but to sue you for....ONE MILLION DOLLARS!
Gates: Hahahahaha!
CEO: Damn. I mean.....ONE BILLION DOLLARS!
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I am the beginning. I am the end. I am forever, and I will continue to exist long after everything, even hope itself, has been destroyed. | |
| ATTGUY2
join:2002-06-02
Fremont, CA
| Real Player Bites I have installed several versions of Real Player on several different computers over the years from homemade systems to name brands including laptops. I never have gotten it to work realiably at any point in time. And every time I turn around there is a new version out. Finally after years of error messages, jumpy playback, distorted audio and a whole host of other problems including "illegal program operation errors", I gave up.
Real Player does have a point though. Microsoft can include any utility or applette on their operating system they want to before it leaves the door but I don't think real Player has been damaged as much as they say. | |
| 
Mactron
el camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv
| As much as I hate Micro$oft I hope MS wins this one. The lesser of two evils maybe !??
I would never ever install that virus called RealNetworks. Maybe they can get some money out of MS, but they will never see any of mine. RealNetworks and AOL banished themselves off any of my systems years ago.
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"Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house." Rod Stewart | |
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whomedave
join:2002-02-08
Sturtevant, WI | Real player is garbage it just is. | |
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Anti_Cyrix
Premium
join:2003-03-06
Sacramento, CA | Re: Real player is garbage That's why I tend to use Winamp.
Winamp5 just came out. I haven't tried it yet though. | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska
| Re: Real player is garbage said by Anti_Cyrix :
That's why I tend to use Winamp.
Winamp5 just came out. I haven't tried it yet though.
It's great. It lets you use Win Amp 2 skins and plugins! However Win Amp 5 still takes a bit longer to load than Win Amp 2.
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I am the beginning. I am the end. I am forever, and I will continue to exist long after everything, even hope itself, has been destroyed. | |
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Anti_Cyrix
Premium
join:2003-03-06
Sacramento, CA | Re: Real player is garbage That's why I didn't like Winamp3 much. It takes a lot more resources than Winamp2. I still have Winamp2 on all of my computers. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | said by Anti_Cyrix :
That's why I tend to use Winamp.
Winamp5 just came out. I haven't tried it yet though.
The contention RealNetwork makes about the bundling of WMP
is total crap. I have bd poweramp, Quick time, WMP, WinAmp 5, and Realone, which sucks, and a couple of others
I can think of right now. If I could figure out how to play
Realone formated stuff without the necessity of having it installed I would dump it in a heart beat. As it is it has to be there so WinAmp can use it's extensions to play these files. The bottom line is you can't function on the web with one player.
I have Winamp 5 installed it is fabulous, the radio section (shoutcast) is the best I have yet used. It also has a burner available now
--
I love Irish Terriers, Low Brass, and the sound of a 1950 Johnson Viking 1 tranmitter on the air for the first time in 30 years. | |
| | | 
clowny
Premium
join:2003-09-09
Crystal Lake, IL | Re: Your all right said by aszure3 :
Realplayer SUCKS!
ditto | |
| dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio | Real Networks sues Zone Labs et. al. Maybe Real should also sue all makers of outbound firewalls, for intercepting their attempts to make a business out of theft of personal information... | |
| | 
ChrisAdan650
join:2003-05-10
Daly City, CA
| Heh, Jackass's! Real Networks should try releasing a product that would attract more consumers rather than just going out and suing Microsoft because they just can't compete with their products. Another reason why they're probably suing is because they know they have a good chance of winning the case. I hope they get squashed, counter-sued, and end up being a division with Microsoft itself. Heh, that would be grand. | |
| | 
cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL
| Agreed! Talk about biting the hand that has fed ya for years! Let's keep in mind that Real Networks only became a "player" in the media player market because they only had to write a program for the leading OS. If you want to gain marketshare back, get cracking on a piece of software that everyone cannot live without for a media player. Microsoft came a step closer with Media Player 9 than did RealOne. | |
| 
Ctrl Alt Del
Premium
join:2002-02-18
| RealNetworks is a horrible company. Period. RealNetworks not only makes one of the most bloated, half working, crappy format, and messy media players, but they are also an advertising company! RealMedia ads! Oh, I just love a company that tracks my internet browsing (through a cookie) and sends me advertisments! Whether you are paranoid about being tracked is not the issue, the fact that RealNetworks is both a media and advertising company doesn't fly right with me.
--
The day after tomorrow. Where will you be? | |
| | 
sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
1 edit | Re: RealNetworks is a horrible company. Period. said by Ctrl Alt Del :
RealNetworks not only makes one of the most bloated, half working, crappy format, and messy media players, but they are also an advertising company! RealMedia ads!
That would be interesting if you were correct, but you're not. Different company, different product. Nothing to do with RealNetworks.
»www.openadstream.com/about/index.html
So let me get this straight, we love MS because they crush the competition, but we hate Real because they (*gasp*) want to charge money for a nagless player? And internet ads, we hate those too, but we want our content free? Hello? Who's paying for all this?
OpenAdStream is a banner-serving/click-tracking system that integrates with most major web servers. It actually lets a website make money (*double gasp*) by letting them show advertisers how many people saw the ads, how many clicked through, proves where they clicked from, etc. Yeah, you need cookies for that. Yeah, it makes the webmaster money. But free isn't free without ads. I've administered an OAS server. There's nothing maniacal going on, just some really really cool statistics reporting/billing tools.
It's amazing how few people truly understand the antitrust ruling. It's not about whether Real or WMP is better. They both work, they both suck to some degree. One is dominant because it's bundled. That would be fine if that were the end of the story, but since everyone's so fond of the automobile analogy, think of it like this:
MS makes cars, car stereos, tires, custom rims, and neon kits. They sell them to dealers. Some dealers decide they don't want neon kits or junky car stereos in the car and ask to order the car without these options. MS says no. The dealer goes ahead and removes the parts. They put in aftermarket stereos, more subdued rims, and perhaps replace the ashtray with an iPod holder. MS gets wind of this and stops selling them cars. Sadly, since MS Car is has 95% of the market, the dealer must either agree to those terms or not be in the mass-market car business.
Call Real the car stereo maker, call Dell the dealer, and see if you can wrap your mind around the anti-competitive nature of that.
Probably not, because d000d MS r00lz, LOL and REAL is teh suck.  :p:o:D
Edit: I forgot no one reads the news articles anymore. Here's the quote:
said by the article you didn't read:
The lawsuit alleges that Microsoft, which builds the Windows operating system that controls more than 90 percent of the personal computers in the United States, restricts how PC makers install competing media players.
In other words, MS is doing the same thing they got in trouble for in the first place; forcing integrators to only load "approved" garbage on the desktop. | |
| | |
Ctrl Alt Del
Premium
join:2002-02-18
| Re: RealNetworks is a horrible company. Period. Thank you for correcting me, I was confusing »www.realnetworks.com/products/ad···dex.html with »www.openadstream.com they use the same name, and sometimes OpenAdStream uses the Real Media format to further confuse things (www.ifilm.com was one for a while, www.weather.com uses RealAds too). I don't care about the tracking or counting, it's that I simply don't want to play "Close the pop ups!" game.
I cannot stand advertisements online. I understand the ads are there so the cost is none or low, but advertisements are getting extremely annoying and I don't want them, period. I highly doubt one person (me) who uses The Proxomitron to block the ads is going to put the webmaster out of business. It's a market economy, adjust.
Another thing you touched on, somehow you think I love MS. I never have, and do not love MS. I do not pay money for their software, now how loving is that of me? In more P2P terms, I steal from MS. I personally like some of their software, but think it's way overpriced. I've already supported (paid) for software from MS and was let down (Windows ME). XP restored that little faith because things work now.
As with the antitrust, I understand what has been happening in there. MS doesn't let me fully remove IE, OE, WMP, and to remove Windows Messenger and NetMeeting, you have to use a long and complicated run command. I don't *like* this, this crap pisses me off! However, not even Apple is perfect. And on the business level, I know that MS has the retailers by the balls. If the retailer wants to bundle say Firebird with their PCs and MS says no and will not sell them Windows, it's not hard to think what the retailer will do. When MS does this, I personally think they should be castrated, but that's just me My problem is, of all companies, it's RealNetworks that is challenging MS. I hate Real more than I hate MS. I'm for what Real is trying to do, but against Real. If they win, then I guess that's good, but I hope Real doesn't get any great ideas.
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The day after tomorrow. Where will you be? | |
| | | Sultan
join:2001-12-01
Omaha, NE
| "One is dominant because it's bundled"
BS, one is dominant because the other one blows. I have both on my system. One came with the system, the other I downloaded. They both work. One works better than the other. Thats the one I use most. Being bundled didnt have jack to do with it. Being the better player did, end of story. | |
| | | | 
Vericima
Beautiful But Deadly
Premium
join:2003-01-07
Manchester, CT
| Re: RealNetworks is a horrible company. Period. said by Sultan :
"One is dominant because it's bundled"
Being bundled didnt have jack to do with it. Being the better player did, end of story.
FOR YOU! Not everyone knows that there ARE other players much less where to get them. There are a lot of other people out there that only know what MS or AOL feeds them. The issue is that if mass computer manufacturers have a licence to put Winblows on a computer they are not allowed to put anything else on them. If a customer wanted a box from Dell or someone, but they wanted RealOne on it instead of WMP, Dell would not be able to comply.
I for one would like to totally uninstall MS Messenger, IE, and WMP, since I don't use any of them. I want my HD space back without losing my internet capabilities.
--
Say no to TCPA! Don't Know what that is? Find out Here. | |
| |
Affliction
@telus.net
| The issue is that if mass computer manufacturers have a licence to put Winblows on a computer they are not allowed to put anything else on them.
I build and sell high-performance, custom computers out of a Vancouver storefront, and not once in three years has Microsoft told me what I can and cannot install on my systems. | |
| 
rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| taxation I don't favor RealPlayer over MP I just can't believe the hippie love fest going on here. everyone loves Microsoft, the bloated, virus ridden monopoly. I think I may puke if this continues. are all of you employees? You think it's wrong to sue them? anytime any corporation invents something they either copy it or flat out steal it, put it on their OS and tell the inventor to pissoff. you are all wrong. sorry. they deserve to be sued and I hoipe they lose. actually you will be sorry when they truly control everything and they start charging you to use their browser. 5 cents per click. | |
| |
See 8 replies to this post | |
tao
Chaos Impends
Premium
join:2000-12-03
Lansing, MI
·Comcast
| I hope MS loses. I use SBC/Yahoo and use Linux. I can't get the free music included because Launchcast uses a Windows Media server and they only deliver music in MS format.
A local public radio station uses an OS X server to deliver music that is accessible via QuickTime Player. Oops, when a client installs Windows Media Player 9.0, Quick Time no longer works. So what is the solution? The radio station is switching to a Windows Media Server.
And finally, the entertainment industry is all over MS for DRM software included with Windows Media Server and Windows Media Player. Now, I don't mind that intellectual property is protected, but not at the expense of limiting whom can get what is offered. If I want to hear music on a computer, should Microsoft decide who can hear it and who can't?
I certainly hope that Apple joins this suit.
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Are we halfway there yet? | |
| |
See 10 replies to this post | |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
| Years Go By Quickly I remember when Real Networks was Cool, The Un-M$ thing to have on your computer, and actually a pretty good piece of software... RNetworks was the soft. of choice for any websites such as TV stations etc...
I dropped them long ago because their tihs simply isn't reliable.
Dropping M$ isn't an option. I will drop it as soon as more *.nix drivers are made for my hardware
--
Just Be! | |
|
Affliction
@telus.net
| RealNetworks = losers The primary complaint, as noted by the Associated Press, is Microsoft's inclusion of its Media Player with windows whether consumers "want it or not".
I believe the attached image accurately represents how little chance RealNetworks has of winning a penny.
Seriously, though, RealNetworks suing Microsoft for including a program with their operating system (which could be downloaded for free anyways) is like Safeway suing London Drugs for giving out free candy canes at Christmastime. | |
| |
Ronnie123
Premium
join:2003-03-11
Springtown, TX
| Re: RealNetworks = losers you know.. it's a little more like a someone setting up a company that sells grocery bags (bags that tear easily and are poorly glued in this scenario) suing albertsons for giving you free grocery bags with your grocery purchase.
the point is... you would be mad if they didn't give you the bag.
i would be mad if i paid a hundreds of dollars for an operating system and it didn't come with the required media players, or a browser, or a calculator, or a clock... or any of the other thousand little applications that are "bundled" with windows.
In fact... I'm a little mad that windows doesn't come with a real firewall and anti-virus software. When it does, I'm sure someone will sure. But they wont be suing on my behalf. no matter how much they try to pretend they are acting in the end users best interest... we all know it's about padding their pockets. | |
| | |
affliction
@telus.net | Re: RealNetworks = losers In fact... I'm a little mad that windows doesn't come with a real firewall and anti-virus software.
Service Pack 2 will, apparently, include just that. | |
| tagazta
join:2003-09-06 | RealNetworks is crap and so is watching streaming video on it.
Still, MS should make the WMP uninstallable. | |
| |
Affliction
@telus.net | Re: RealNetworks is crap It is: hit the Add/Remove Windows Components tab in the Add/Remove Programs control panel. | |
| | |
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | Re: Real Networks is crap I don't understand what is going on here. Unable to uninstall Windows Media player. That is flat wrong, I can take it out anytime I want to. It is the same with all of the players I use. As I have said in another post, I have at least 6 different players on my system and there are no conflicts between any of them. WinAmp 5 is my primary player, I do not let any of the other players modify any of the associations. This is the key set each player that is not your primary player so it does not try to reclaim anything. I know this seems a no brainer but apparently there are some here who don't realize this is the key to a happy, happy computer.
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I love Irish Terriers, Low Brass, and the sound of a 1950 Johnson Viking 1 transmitter on the air for the first time in 30 years. | |
| | | | tagazta
join:2003-09-06
1 edit |  Re: Real Networks is crap
And I don't have any conflicts either, yay!  | |
| | | switchd
join:2003-12-17
Hollidaysburg, PA
| Re: RealNetworks = losers All that does is, in effect, hide or partially remove the app.
There is no simple way to completely remove WMP, and if you do, you might end up with a dysfunctional OS.(it's probably that way already;) MS should just place those apps (IE
In a perfect world all of these companies would perfect one format and then compete to produce an app that offers the most options & best functionality, not waste large amounts of time & money sitting in court pointing fingers.
MS & RN are both garbage. IMHO
peace | |
| 
gdio53
join:2000-07-30
Feeding Hills, MA
| Real Networks - NOT! I can remember a few years back when Real Networks accused MS of taken over the file associations that Real Player used. When that hit the news, I was flabbergasted as Real Networks was the one trying to take control over everything, including Quick Time! Now their crying because people have gotten wise to their crap and are refusing to install anything that they release. | |
| sterilegenie
Onebase Linux
join:2001-06-07
Deltona, FL
clubs: | Boo Hoo Realnetworks is starting to sound like SCO! Everyone is such sore losers....when they find out that their product stinks!
--
...my wife complained that I do not pay attention...or something like that... | |
| 
rpeAMP
join:2000-12-02
San Antonio, TX
2 edits | Real format is NOT crap Not to drag this off-point more than it already is, but--
For those of you saying that everything about Real is crap (player, company, etc.), if you've ever had to encode anything in both WMP format and Real format, you'll notice that Real has a FAR superior compression scheme/algorithm. For example, the level of loss in a 256kbps video in Real format is significantly lower not only in file size but in audio/visual quality as well when compared to a WMV of the same "quality".
I will, however, concede that the RealONE player and the adviertising/spyware network behind it is horrible. My suggestion is to download the Real plugins for Winamp if you don't like using their software. | |
| | 
X X X X X X
Premium
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY
| Real who??? Its been such a long time since I used real and were talking two years at least.... Go Micro$haft Winders Meedeeah Playa!!!
--
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson (1709-1784) | |
| | | 
redxii
too big to fail
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Texas
Host:
/dev/null
Broadband Tweaks
Suddenlink
ISDN
Fiber Optic
1 edit | Give MS a break... First of all, there is nothing in Windows that prevents you from installing any third-party application. If you want RealPlayer, download it!!! Then use it and forget about WMP!!!!!
Second, this has been brought up before Service Pack 1 (about built-in stuff in Windows); thus Set Program and Access Defaults has been born in 2000 Sp4 (or SP3?) and XP Service Pack 1. If RealPlayer wants more market share then they should probably make their own operating system.
Unrelated: I don't use RealPlayer because most of the time I always need a plugin to play a video. The download or install of that plugin usually fails but if successful, the chance of the video playing is slim anyway. | |
| | todd2473
join:2003-07-03
North Vernon, IN
| Re: Give MS a break... know one thing I am tired of is people accusing microsoft for every wrong doing in the world . are there allot of unhappy windows users yes why because windows has a market share most company's would beg for. more users more people complain simple right. not to this suit this is bs I agree with all poster who say what's next sue for word for solitare for whatever just cause it comes bundled bah make something people want to use they use it microsoft is the first company to prove that cause even though we love to hate em they are and forever will be associated with the home pc. as for those nay Sayer's that say why can't I take it apart and still have it work try taking something small off your car say o2 sensor or maybe emg valve and see how good it runs afterward LOL | |
| | | tightline0
Premium
join:2003-11-29
Chicago, IL
| Re: Give MS a break... Microsoft is not a public utility, though some would like it to be. It is a business designed to make money for its founders and stockholders, not its competitiors. It is doing what all dominant companies (Apple, IBM, VisiCalc...ne Lotus 123, Wordstar, Sun, AOL, Procter and Gamble, Walmart just to name a few)have always done, step on the competition to enhance its growth. The fact that they are doing it better and smarter breeds a certain amount of resentment.
Generally when you invent a product to work with another's product, you shouldn't expect to get as rich as that person. In fact it is rather common for your product to be assimilated by the first product, not the other way around.
All large companies add (copy/steal)features to their products suggested by outsiders. These outside companies should be viewed as exploiting a temporary window of opportunity (pun intended). Should companies like Sun or RealNetworks be able to permanently exploit the success of Windows by using the courts to force Bill to distribute a copy of their now outmoded products with every copy of windows?
Capitalism, the laws of supply and demand work. Companies like Apple and IBM discovered that times, technology and people change the hard way. Some would say that what is happening to Microsoft's competitors is natural. Only time will tell how this will ultimately effect Microsoft. | |
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