Are you getting the upgrade?More speed for the same or less ( old news - 02:17PM Monday Dec 08 2003) tags: prices · bandwidth · statsTipped by justin  As you may be aware, we have been running speed tests for users almost since the site started back in 1999. Graphing recent results by speed and comparing this to the same graph done at the end of 2001 shows an industry that's seen remarkable change over a fairly short period of time. The bottom line: most (but not all) users are getting higher download speeds, and paying slightly less, while basic dial-up sinks under a storm of pop-ups. Has YOUR ISP introduced an improved download speed, for the same price, over that time? Our speed test archive gathers data from a variety of ISP's, with 98% of the data representing the speeds of U.S. and Canadian consumer ISPs. Looking back at a sampling of data taken from October 2001, you can clearly see where DSL subscribers (usually 756kbps to 1.5mbps) and cable subscribers (from 1-2mbps) reside. The lower numbers are obviously dial-up and ISDN, the faster numbers are from providers such as Optimum On-line and other connectivity options (fiber, T1, frame relay).  Compare that data to the past several weeks of 2003:  Other than the implication that connectivity options such as ISDN and dial-up are very slowly fading, several other industry trends are fairly apparent in this data. Cable's move to 3mbpsMost apparent is the jump in cable connectivity to 3mbps. Originally a Comcast response to bell DSL price-cuts, the past twelve months has seen the majority of cable providers adopt the speed as their de-facto standard. Comcast CEO Brian Roberts shrugged off DSL price-cuts, claiming DSL was a "less robust product" and set an industry standard by upping downstream speeds. Roberts continues to claim that 100mbps is entirely "viable" in the not so distant future. Montreal based Cogeco announced this year they'd be increasing downstream speeds from 2 to 3Mbps for all 1.9 million of their cable customers. Time Warner Cable followed suit, raising the downstream speeds to 3mbps, while considering an upstream shift to 512kbps. The majority of the largest cable providers made some form of downstream improvement in 2003; smaller providers, like Brighthouse Networks, have yet to make the jump. Even Northern Virginia, a one-time candidate for the worst broadband service in the country under Cox Communications, now witnesses 3mbps downstream speeds. DSL, DSL Lite, and Bundle ManiaPrice conscious dial-up users found 2003 to be the year they finally jumped to DSL. SBC and Yahoo shocked the industry by unveiling a 1.5mbps DSL tier for $26.95 a month. SBC added 365,000 new DSL lines in just the third quarter of 2003; the jump evident in the 1-1.5mbps ranges a sign that users are warming up to SBC (and other bell) discount DSL offerings. Not entirely apparent in the data is the shift from connectivity options such as dial-up and ISDN to certain 'DSL-Lite' tiers. Such discount tiers began emerging over the past 12 months in the hopes of luring dial-up customers away from their finger-drumming life in the slow-lane. BellSouth offers 256Kbps for a not so impressive $39.95 a month ($34.95 if you bundle). The largest shift in the past two years among providers is the push toward bundling. A number of users have flocked to less expensive broadband service provided they sign up for other "bundled" services. In 2003 many cable providers began offering digital television, DVR features, and broadband in a bundle. Telecom companies likewise began bundling voice and wireless options, bringing a flood of users into the broadband fold. The death of Dial-up?The mutuall assured destruction among discount dialup providers, the intro of AOL's long over-due discount dial-up package, and the new breed of dialup-accelerator products are possibly the end-game for the entire dialup industry. Still, 60% of US home users dial into the Internet with "narrowband" connections, with an incredible 2.8% still using 14.4Kbps modems. With email boxes full of spam and spyware, with little bandwidth available to upgrade, one wonders what these users think of "the internet".  Related:- Global FTTH Additions Outpace Cable For First Time
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Speedy8 Premium join:2002-08-22 Alliance, OH clubs:
| Uh oh, here come the opt online people... Yes you get that speed in a very small area of the country, some people get 100mbit in parts of the country. But if it's not at least semi nationwide, who cares?
I pay for 6Mbit SBC DSL myself, it's great. Latency matters more to most people anyway than pure bandwidth, which most cable companies suck at compared to your average DSL provider.
Personally though I'd take 2500/2500 over 6000/608 if I could. | |
|  |  |  |   novaflare The Dragon Was Here Premium join:2002-01-24 Barberton, OH
| Re: Speakeasy DSL said by Speedy8 : Uh oh, here come the opt online people... Yes you get that speed in a very small area of the country, some people get 100mbit in parts of the country. But if it's not at least semi nationwide, who cares?
I pay for 6Mbit SBC DSL myself, it's great. Latency matters more to most people anyway than pure bandwidth, which most cable companies suck at compared to your average DSL provider.
Personally though I'd take 2500/2500 over 6000/608 if I could.
Im moveing to wireless 1500/1500 constant speeds with about the same bandwidth as a t1 (a tad less) so i should be able to down load 10 to 15 files simo bef i see any drop what so ever in my dl speed. heh my provider is currently going to court the city desided his transmision tower needed a permit after the fact basicly one person said nope dont need a permit he erected it then building inspector comes out to check it for safty and tell him he needed a permit and has to take it down lol any who i hate my current isp. The techs are all morons always pointing the fingure at me even when i know for a fact its them ill be very happy to have the 1500/1500 con over my 3000/380s cable and no restriction so by god if i want to run a full blown web site i will  -- my fav mmorpg »www.rubiesofeventide.com if you sign up use novaflare as referal | |
|  |  |  |  rradina
join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Why do you say most cable companies have latency problems?
My only experience suggests exactly the opposite. Granted, my only experience with DSL is my father's AOL DSL but his response times to just about anywhere on the web are +100ms. In the same area, I have Charter cable Internet and I usually get 50ms to most areas of the Internet. He also experiences packet loss, I have no packet loss.
Is it common for DSL to have better latency than cable? I actually thought it was the other way around and that most folks that think cable has latency problems think that way before DOCSIS provided management to keep hogs from killing the network. | |
|  |  |  |  |   Speedy8 Premium join:2002-08-22 Alliance, OH clubs:
| Re: Speakeasy DSL No, DSL generally has lower latency. Most likely due to cable subscribers sharing nodes. When the upload speeds starts to get somewhat saturated on a node it can affect latency somewhat. Of course there are many exceptions. Some people have excellent latency on cable, and some people have really bad DSL. But overall cable has more bandwidth and DSL has better latency.
I guess I'm lucky though, because in my area my DSL has the most bandwidth available and the best latency. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   Bobcat 1.20.09 - The End of an Error Premium join:2001-02-04 Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
edit: December 8th, @06:07PM
| Re: Speakeasy DSL I disagree with your comment on latency. With my OOL 8000/900 cable, the ping time to the CMTS is about 8 msec.
When I had 1500/384 DSL, the ping time to the DSLAM was 18 msec. People who were not set up as DSL "fastpath" had ping times around 25 msec. -- "We know where they are." » Donald Rumsfeld on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, March 30, 2003. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Speedy8 Premium join:2002-08-22 Alliance, OH clubs:
edit: December 8th, @11:52PM
| Re: Speakeasy DSL Wow, did both of you not read what I said completely or what? I said there are people with bad DSL and good cable as well, I didn't say DSL is always better. But from all of the research and talking with people I have done the past 6 years, DSL definitely has the edge overall.
Also, if you check out doctor ping since it has been reimplemented here on the site, DSL generally has more scores at the top, even though cable has higher penetration in the US. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   nothing00
join:2001-06-10 Centereach, NY
| said by Bobcat : I get about 8000/900 (yes, 8mbit down) for $44.95 per month. So much for Speakeasy and their 3000/768.
OK, but how are OOL's news servers? Do OOL subscribers have any problems sending friends or businesses email lately?
Oh wait, I know the answers to these questions... Speed isn't everything. -- I want my - I want my - I want my port ayyyeetteee! (to the tune of "I want my MTV" Money for Nothing) | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Speakeasy DSL said by Nightfall : I have to admit....OOL is nice. Sure, there are people pointing out the drawbacks just because they can't get the service. I know if I could get it, I would have already gotten it. It is my hope that other companies will follow in the steps of OOL. 
I point out its negatives and positives to inform, not because i cant get it. there are plenty of people dumping OOL for Verizon DSL and those people are 'haves', not just someone who's a 'havenot' and is pissed because they cant get the service. OOL's download speed is insane but you will be hard pressed to find servers that can fill your pipe with realworld usage. -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|  |  |  |   Synon29
join:2003-09-13 Clovis, NM
| If i had the choice between speakeasy dsl and ool I would probably choose speakeasy. I play alot of online games and download quite a few files, and do some heavy surfing. I couldn't be bothered with having to worry about my upload speeds being reduce, and things like that. Why give me a lamborghini and then give me a five gallon gas can. If you gave me speeds like that i'd definately want to use it. Besides most web sites that you visit don't really allow you to utilize your high download speed. | |
|  |  |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| said by Bobcat : I get about 8000/900 (yes, 8mbit down) for $44.95 per month. So much for Speakeasy and their 3000/768.
YEAH!. but... Speakeasy has reliable news and email and doesnt take 85% of its users upload away for what i call a very restrictive upload policy (Servers arent even a TOS issue even on res lines) lets see did i miss anything? oh yeah the yearly rate increases. of course this upcoming year the OOL wont see a rate increase(the video subs will be subsidizing them this year) - TRUE while OOL has the fastest caps of any american cable company (10000 down and 1000 up) for a decent rate(even without video) is better than the other cable companies. - YES speakeasy is expensive but they are worth it IMHO. -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|  |  |  |   Bobcat 1.20.09 - The End of an Error Premium join:2001-02-04 Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Speakeasy DSL Hey, guys, I was simply pointing out that the original comment, "Speakeasy DSL... The only provider I know of that offers 3.0/768," was incorrect. There's at least one provider that offers higher speeds, and for less money too. I'm not saying that one is better than the other for any particular purpose, just that the original poster was incorrect (or uninformed).
Regarding OOL's capping policy, web browsing, heavy downloading, or gaming will not get you capped. -- "We know where they are." » Donald Rumsfeld on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, March 30, 2003. | |
|  |  |  |  |   borborpa Slipping Slowly Into Oblivion Premium join:2002-02-20 New Cumberland, PA clubs: | Re: Speakeasy DSL That is the only problem with DSL...but if you are in range...it's nice!! | |
|  |  |  |   Synon29
join:2003-09-13 Clovis, NM
| Blah, the best that I can get in this area is 640/256. Well of course I could always get a t1 connection but I don't have the 1000 dollars a month that it would cost me. I guess in a few years I will catch up to the speeds that you guys used to have. hehe | |
|  whitefishdj Premium join:2001-12-27 Alameda, CA
·Comcast
| Upgrade that is really a return to old service . . Thanks for the update on traffic. I heard Roberts speaking at an event last week in SF. He does indeed insist that 100Mbps is very possible, noting that they are only allocating one channel of cable to HSI at present and can readily shift more channels from conventional cable TV to HSI if needed.
With respect to 'upgrade' - I am a legacy @ home customer who had more than 3Mbps before attbi downgraded the service to 1.5 mbps. So, IMHO, comcast is simply restoring a portion of the service that attbi took away - and asking more in monthly service charges to do it. So, it doesn't look like an upgrade to me.
Tell you what: why don't you send me half of your paycheck for the next 2 years. At the end of that period, I will stop collecting the money and you will immediately double your take home pay! This offer is limited to the first 10 respondents so hurry and write now to I-want-a-big-raise@pay-upgrade.congame.not | |
|  |   J D McDorce Premium join:2001-12-29 Westland, MI | Re: Upgrade that is really a return to old service . . 100 Mbps per customer on cable would require a couple steps up the evolutionary ladder for DOCSIS or an alternative technology to implement. | |
|  |  |  whitefishdj Premium join:2001-12-27 Alameda, CA
·Comcast
edit: December 8th, @11:27PM
| Re: Upgrade that is really a return to old service . . said by J D McDorce : 100 Mbps per customer on cable would require a couple steps up the evolutionary ladder for DOCSIS or an alternative technology to implement.
In making the statement, Roberts mentioned industry funded R&D work at Cable Labs which is the place where DOCSIS was developed.
It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch - as you said 'evolutionary', not revolutionary. | |
|   ronpin Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06 Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
·Charter Pipeline
| More is More I clamored for more and more speed. Charter clamored for less and less speed for more and more money. I finally switched and now pay $99.95 for SBC's 1.5-6 mbs DSL service (~4mbs nominal). Charter never got-it that there is a market for top tier service. Any providers listening? | |
|   terrywin
join:2003-08-28 Hillsboro, MO | Hmm.. Those dialup users (like myself), are thinking.. when the hell will it finally be available in their area... | |
|  |   Omega Displaced Ohioan Premium join:2002-07-30 Santa Maria, CA clubs:  | Re: Hmm.. I can't believe that people are stuff using 14.4K modems.
I did connect to the internet on an external modem.
We need broadband nation wide. -- "The doctor's X-Rayed my head and found nothing" | |
|  |  |  klross32148
join:2003-02-23 Jacksonville, FL | Re: Hmm.. Yeah, I'm still waiting for ISDN in my area. Connecting to my ISP at 26.4k because the phonelines are ancient. | |
|  |   Googled Yay, I have FIOS
join:2001-08-13 Orchard Park, NY
·VoicePulse
·Verizon FIOS
·WildBlue
| What's interesting is that, from the graph, it would appear that the people who are able to real broadband are at least giving their 56k modem to those of us who can't get real broadband. -- DirecWay DW3000 DRS, SatMex 5 1170 gateway 164, P3-533/256 MB, AOL+ 7.0 4114.10712 on 98SE w/ICS,shared to 2 x 2K Pro, 1 x Redhat Linux 7.3, 1 x Netgear 802.11b | |
|  |   Synon29
join:2003-09-13 Clovis, NM
| I feel for you man. If it wasn't for the phone company here offering wireless internet service I wouldn't be able to have any kind of hsi myself. The best comcast can do is 3 years. We do have a dslam here in the town that I live in, but i'm about 700 feet to far, and even if I could get it, I imagine the speed would not be all that fantastic. You could always get some friends together purchase a t1 line and split it up wirelessly. | |
|   RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| It's not smoke and mirrors, either... We're seeing pretty much universal upgrade from the old 768/160 or 1536/128 basic levels (which last year were $39.95) to 1536/256 for $26.95/mo in SBC/Ameritechland if the customer's line supports the speed. Some have even been released from the distance shackles where their individual line specs show it will operate correctly past 12,500 feet.
The 1536/384 tier is $36.95.
The 6016/608 tier is $99.95.
To be fair, add the $12/mo SBC requires for a basic POTS line to those, but no matter how you slice it, this is a good thing for customers. I am now paying $20/mo less for twice the speed than I had this time two years ago. | |
|  |  See 9 replies to this post | |
  oliphant5 Got Identity? Premium join:2003-05-24 Corona, CA
edit: December 8th, @02:54PM
| What's the point of speed when they cap it? Sure, cable providers are moving to 3Mb speeds...they're also moving to caps. We've already seen it with Cox, Time Warner and with the mysterious Comcast caps. What's the point if you can't use it!?! I have both Comcast and VoL and the more I use it...VoL is a better value at $13/mo cheaper...unlimited use, no networking limits, unlimited usenet, even free MSN8 for those interested in it. Comcast...glass caps, 1GB usenet limit for nearly 50% more. -- Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network »www.theanimenetwork.com/index.html | |
|  |  See 7 replies to this post | |
  gracie Geek Goddess Premium join:2003-07-15 confusion
| verizon's deal no sbc in my area (the ny metro area) but verizon's deal was what made me jump over from dialup: 1500/128 (and i do a bit better consistently) for $34.95/mo with a buncha freebies. cable around where i live is around $49.95/mo. so this was particularly attractive. -- graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL." Creating SuperSites Worldwide | |
|   sbrook Premium,Mod join:2001-12-14 H0H 0H0 | Interesting ... You can see the peaks of the various modem types ...
TeraPros at 1200 DOCSIS at 1.5 and 3 | |
|   IGGY No Guru Just Here To Help Premium,MVM join:2001-03-30 Chatham, IL
| Been lucky
I've been lucky enough to have 3mbps since 3/16/01 when we 1st got broadband. My ISP's standard package is 3000/128. The next tier is 3000/384 - which I have. These are the only offered tiers to date. I'd like some OOL speeds for what they pay. But I'd like no usage caps and stable email and decent newsgroups. Some of this we know OOL doesn't provide. My ISP charges $34.95 for the 3000/128 as long as you have a certain cable tv package and own your own modem. Double that for the 3000/384. Yep $69.99 for 3000/384 an extra $34.95 for 256 more on the upload side. But they are stable - with little down time - email is reliable - newsgroups aren't that bad either. -- Test Your Security Team Z Member Cable Modem Diagnostics InsightBB 3000/384 XP PRO | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Ericthorn It only hurts when I laugh Premium join:2001-08-10 Paragould, AR clubs:  
| Cox still in the stone age
Unfortunately, I'm in a part of the kuntry where my only option is dish access.. or Cox Express. Dish access here it prohibitively expensive.. so I'm shelling out $40/mo for a 1mg/128k cable connection. Cox HSI is supposed to be here in the 'near' future, and we're on 3 waiting lists for DSL (yea, it's the boonies). But, I'll probably be moving in 7 months to a new area that does get DSL, long before high speed cable or DSL reaches this area.
There is no logical reason to me why Cox can't offer the new 3mg/256k connection they are offering for HSI in those markets, at the same price I'm paying now for a 1mg/128k. Hell I'd even pay more for a better speed.. but SOHO here is 100/mo ++.. too much for my blood. And the Cox bandwidth caps are ridiculous. At 20 days into a 30day period, I'm already sure I'll hit my caps.. although, on a good note, I haven't heard anyone getting slammed by Cox for going slight beyond the caps. -- Ever try stuffing a melted marshmellow up a wildcat's ass? It can be done, but you have to like your job. - This Is The Way The World Ends by James Morrow | |
|  |  mrs213
join:2002-05-25 Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Cox still in the stone age There's probably a very logical reason: cost of deployment vs. return. Those nodes and CMTSs don't upgrade themselves, for free. If there isn't incentive in the area (number of subscribers, competition, etc.) then they won't do it. You've said yourself: you live in the boondocks with no other options. Why would Cox spend the money to upgrade an area with a low sub count and no DSL competition, other than a homongenous network (easier to manage)? | |
|  |  |   Ericthorn It only hurts when I laugh Premium join:2001-08-10 Paragould, AR clubs:  
| Re: Cox still in the stone age I see your point... but.. in any given business, there is an accepted profit vs. loss.. What I mean is.. a business knows that in certain markets, they may not make a large profit, or may actually lose $'s in that market, but they do so simply to be available, and the money is made up in other markets. I worked in electronics distribution for 10yrs, and we knew that having a branch in Arkansas was not going to yield too many $'s, but we were still there anyway so that we had full coverage of the U.S. I feel that Cox should be doing the same. If they can offer a 3mg/256k package to all HSI users, I don't see why they can't offer it here.. Trust me.. if you have worked in sales for Cox here, selling their internet access here is almost impossible when one can get a faster DSL link for less money. I know they don't upgrade themselves, for free.. (c'mon, please give me more credit than that.. I've had broadband since the first rollout of DSL beta testers for Earthlink about 4+yrs ago).. Cox has DSL competition all around here.. just not in my particular area because I live outside the paramaters at the moment. I could move into 'town' and get a faster DSL link, I just happen to like my 2acres with a house at $400/mo with a forest as my backyard BTW.. there is a HUGE potential of 'sub count' here.. this is a college town.. kids eat up High Speed like Crunchberries  -- Ever try stuffing a melted marshmellow up a wildcat's ass? It can be done, but you have to like your job. - This Is The Way The World Ends by James Morrow | |
|  |   Jason Levine Premium join:2001-07-13 Albany, NY
| 10% of people using slower than 56K??? If I read the graph properly, then it seems like 10% of people are stuck with 33.6 or slower connections, another 50% use 56K, and the remaining 40% use broadband. While I'm surprised that so many people are still on sub-56K dial-up, I can't say that I'm shocked at the numbers at 56K. Whenever I design a page, I try to figure out how long it would take to download at 40Kbps (my estimation for what a 56K connection really gives you). -- -Jason Levine http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/ http://www.PCQandA.com/ http://www.urateit.com/ | |
|  |   dilettante
join:2002-01-01 Haslett, MI
| Re: 10% of people using slower than 56K??? Don't forget, people far enough out in the sticks on things like old GTE (now Verizon I guess) barbed wire can seldom get a connection above 33.6K, and often have to live with 28.8K. It isn't always their choice.
The people on 14.4K modems are probably using old laptops, PDAs, or MailStations and such with non-upgradeable modems built in. I suppose there are bound to be a few with old PCs who don't want to pay somebody to drop in a $5 modem too. | |
|  |  |   Jason Levine Premium join:2001-07-13 Albany, NY
| Re: 10% of people using slower than 56K??? said by dilettante : Don't forget, people far enough out in the sticks on things like old GTE (now Verizon I guess) barbed wire can seldom get a connection above 33.6K, and often have to live with 28.8K. It isn't always their choice.
True. A few years back, when I was living on Long Island with my parents, I had a 56K dial up that seemed to think it was a 1kbps connection. Literally. I strongly suspected the phone lines, but was told by the phone company that they didn't support anything over 2400 baud. Luckily, I moved upstate (to be closer to my then-fiance, now-wife) and got Road Runner. I've tried to forget the horror of browsing at 1kbps (which was especially cruel since I had T3 access from work). -- -Jason Levine http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/ http://www.PCQandA.com/ http://www.urateit.com/ | |
|  mattmhk
join:2003-02-06 Eugene, OR
| Qwests spirit of service.. Apparently doesnt apply when it comes to the speeds they offer for DSL in Oregon(and elsewhere too, I hear). 256kbps is ~$21 a month, 640kbps is around $30 a month. Double that for ISP and add a few charges on and your looking at the same price people pay elsewhere for 1500kbps on up I can't understand how they stay afloat around here with Comcasts service thats around 6 times faster on the download side for basically the same price. They dont even try to compete, and while I dont feel sorry for Qwest I do feel sorry for the ISP's trying to keep and get new customers on board. | |
|   insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN | What about the upload? When will we get to see the graphs showing what has happened to upload so far? | |
|  |  TJ_665
join:2001-07-04 Fairview, OR | Re: What about the upload?
Agreed. 1.5Mbps download speed upgrade is dandy but upload has been lacking. This holds true for Verizon DSL. Only 128kbits before shelling out the bucks just to get double the upload speed. | |
|  |  |   dav0r translate Premium join:2003-06-15 Albertville, MN
·Charter Pipeline
·Embarq
| Re: What about the upload? I agree that upload is the real determining factor for your connection. I have 6000/608 DSL and although I love it (and pay a reasonable amt of $ for it) I'd rather have 3000/1000. Upload is constricting everyone with a low industry standard 128up. As soon as 256up is the minimum life will be at least a little better... -- Ever met someone from Microsoft Q/A? ...EXACTLY! | |
|   Doctor Dan Weapons Of Masturbation Premium join:2001-10-20 Papiopolis
·inmotionhosting
·Verizon Online DSL
| Another interpretation... Another interpretation of those graphs is that simply more people with higher speed connections ran speed tests in 2003 compared with 2001 (i.e. "better reporting").
A retrospective study comparing the throughput for a group of users who ran speed tests in both 2001 and 2003 and did not change broadband providers would be more informative.
- Dan -- "What an excellent day for an exorcism..." | |
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