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story category Tauzin Claims Spam Victory
House, Senate come to compromise
(old news - 05:01PM Friday Nov 21 2003)
tags: legislation · Politics · spam
Thanks to Billy Tauzin, you'll never have to worry about spam clogging your inbox again! Just kidding. According to House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Billy Tauzin, the House and the Senate have reached a compromise in their latest attempt to squash spam.

While the early details of the legislation are sketchy, it would deliver millions in fines and a maximum of five years in prison to spammers who utilize misleading headers. The legislation would also supersede state-level legislation like bills recently passed in California and Virginia, and force legit mass mailers to always include the ability to "opt-out" of marketing material.

It's expected to go up for a vote in the House by Friday, then head to the Senate, where it's expected to pass. Both the House and Senate have been busy working on a spam solution; tasking themselves with having anti-spam legislation on the desk of the President before year's end.

"For the first time during the Internet-era, American consumers will have the ability to say no to SPAM. What's more, parents will be able to breath easier knowing that they have the ability to prevent pornographic SPAM from reaching defenseless, unsuspecting children," said Chairman Tauzin in a press release this afternoon. It's not specified how exactly the bill intends to accomplish this.

"Although the Internet has given us abilities beyond our wildest dreams, it has also produced endless headaches with all of the crippling congestion SPAM causes to computers every day throughout this country. Today's agreement could end all of that nonsense and bring peace of mind back to everyone who sends and receives e-mail."

Sure thing. Provided you can find them. Provided they aren't hidden in the bowels of a country that laughs at U.S. legal guidelines. What the law does seem to do is establish a baseline standard for legitimate business spam, an idea many fear will only create legal support for corporations looking to add yet more spam to the tidal wave.

The legislation also allows the FTC to launch a "do not spam" registry, similar to the idea proposed by NY Senator Charles Schumer. Apparently neither Schumer or Tauzin realize that such a list, (after being obtained by "legit" e-mailers to let them know who not to mail) would quickly be sold out the back door to any spammer with $500 in his pocket; only serving to make the spam problem worse.

The Energy and Commerce website has additional detail, though it primarily lists what the legislation promises, not necessarily how it aims to go about supporting those promises.

Related:
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  4. Senate Committee Approves Broadband Bill
  5. FTC Takes Away Porn Pop-Ups
  6. AT&T Could Owe You $146,000
  7. House Democrats Fight Telecom Wiretap Immunity
  8. Copyright Cop Position Added to White House
Forums » Tauzin Claims Spam Victory

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Goober

join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast


edit:
November 21st, @05:07PM

Like this will have any effect

Non-techies trying to do a techie job. These legislators need to sit with experts to determine exactly how to proceed. Only then will they understand the limitations of their proposals, which can then help them to craft something better and stronger.

mrchris
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

edit:
November 21st, @05:29PM

Re: Like this will have any effect

How many of our Legis and Sens actually are tech saavy and have no clue what Spam is? They all must know at least know low level tech stuff.
--
Play ET!

Goober

join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast

Re: Like this will have any effect

said by mrchris See Profile:
How many of our Legis and Sens actually are tech saavy and have no clue what Spam is? They all must know at least know low level tech stuff.

Not exactly sure what you're saying, but I think that these people don't know how to think these technical issues through. That is, they don't understand the extent of the problem and the ramifications of their legislation. They all probably know what spam is, but don't really get the big picture.

Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

edit:
November 21st, @06:12PM

Re: Like this will have any effect

I keep wondering if we need a specialized segment of congress. Legislators who must pass additional technological screening to be admitted. A "techno-senate" if you will.

Only senators/representatives from this group are allowed to forge, or vote on technology legislation?

I can't help but shudder everytime I see a 87 year old man, whose never even turned a PC on, voting on the latest legislative push.

hbarbrey
T6Broadband

join:2000-03-19
Kirkland, IL

Re: Like this will have any effect

Im 68 and I shudder every time an 87 year old representative or senator shows up to vote period.
TTRO
Throw the rascals out!!!
--
Ameritech.net - Has definitely improved by several giant steps
raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
Same for the Energy and Medicare Bills.

They need to justify their salaries and show the populace they are not just there to support the local D.C. escort services

Goober

join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast

Re: Like this will have any effect

I think it goes to these people being extremely arrogant. You can hear it in the tone of their voices. Because they can expound nonsensically--but eloquently--on these topics, they think it makes them knowledgeable on the topic.

I'm so sick of these morons trying to make the decisions. I'm even more sick of the fact that there aren't any normal people that can afford to run and be elected. If you aren't wealthy to start with, you likely aren't getting elected. Exceptions exist, of course, but not enough of them.

So much for meaningful anti spam regulations.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

And there was much rejoicing...

<Monty_Python>
yea...
</Monty_Python>

amenite
The Soylent - It's People
Premium
join:2002-11-21
Ridgewood, NJ
clubs:

Re: And there was much rejoicing...

Bring up the holy hand grenade of Antioch...

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: And there was much rejoicing...

said by amenite See Profile:
Bring up the holy hand grenade of Antioch...
This law will be about as effective as farting in our general direction.
--
The tobacco industry is more respectable than the telemarketing industry.
Sprinter99

join:2003-10-10
Grants Pass, OR
·Comcast

leave it to the boneheads in washington to waste valuable time on a real problem because they have no clue what the problem is and therefore any attempt by them to fix it will be ineffective and might actually cause more harm...
I ditto... (yea...)

David
Last man standing
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:

There they go

off shore....

Look at them run and what is going to stop them??

Certainly not this law...
--
Fast and furious!! 225lbs lost and a future that I never dreamed of... Whodathunkit??
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

What they need to add.....

What they need to add is the ability to go after the people who make the offer. Most are US companies. Give up your spammer or pay the fines. Simple.

Synon29

join:2003-09-13
Clovis, NM

Re: What they need to add.....

This is probably just a political move. Now they get to talk about how they are trying to rid the world of spam. This will be good stuff for their campaign come election time.

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:

Re: What they need to add.....

"Vote for us. We're the party that will nuke countries harboring spammers / terrorists / people we don't really like"

kcjames1138pt2

@kcnet.com

Its really simple

This law is fine, as long as they allow you to sue the people who cause the mail to be spammed.

For instance, the companies that offer "affiliate" programs with no spam rules, knowing full well people will spam for them. These companies not only get free spamming, they also get to not pay the affiliate. Berry Trim is one of these nice fellows.

Or how about any of the million Equity Loan Guys. Fill out one of these junk spams about loan rates and watch your phone ring off the hook for days from loan companies all over the country who bought your name from another company who bought it from a spammer. Also so they can claim they didn't spam you.

Once you can sue these companies, the once who are actually benefiting from spam, not necessarily the spammers themselves, only them will you have something. If these companies are so afraid they will be sued by 10 million people for $6 million each, they will be too damn afraid to buy questionable lead lists and doing non-sense affiliate programs.

But, Idiot Tauzin and the rest of the for sale lackies on capital hill won't give us that.

Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: Its really simple

quote:
But, Idiot Tauzin and the rest of the for sale lackies on capital hill won't give us that.
That would require standing up to industry, are you mad?! I query thee, where would these fine men get ad revenue for re-election?

Kalford
Seems To Be An Rtfm Problem.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-20
Ontario
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Huh?

said by Karl See Profile in his article:
Sure thing. Provided you can find them. Provided they aren't hidden in the bowels of a country that laughs at U.S. legal guidelines.
Florida's a country??????
--
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't."

elvey
Spamassassin

join:2001-02-17
San Francisco, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·Cogent Communicati..

said by kcjames1138pt2:
This law is fine, as long as they allow you to sue the people who cause the mail to be spammed.
...
But, Idiot Tauzin and the rest of the for sale lackies on capital hill won't give us that.

It's worse than that. For me in California, and others with strong antispam laws, like Washington, it takes away the right to sue the spammers and in CA, the advertisers! That's why the DMA is supporting the bill. If/when the bill passes, I plan to send every spam I get to my elected representatives; they can help me deal with it.

Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Austin, TX
clubs:
·VoicePulse

Defenseless?

quote:
What's more, parents will be able to breath easier knowing that they have the ability to prevent pornographic SPAM from reaching defenseless, unsuspecting children
Now I'll grant you, children shouldn't be subjected to porn spam. BUT...lets not call them defenseless or unsuspecting. Impressionable, innocent, sure, but not defenseless or unsuspecting. A 10 year old can hit the DELETE key just as easy as I can, with that "special" key being the number one defense against reading spam. And find me one person, of ANY age, who is unsuspecting when it comes to spam, porn or otherwise.
--
AMD XP2500+ @2300mhz/ Asus A7N8X Deluxe rev 1.04/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC3500/ WD 120Gb on serial/ Gainward GF4 4600/ Enermax 465P-VE/Custom water cooler

Synon29

join:2003-09-13
Clovis, NM

Re: Defenseless?

Well you are probably right, but it sounds good, and it gains votes come election time. They are protecting the youth of america. Gee aren't they great. Lets vote for them!

kapil
The Kapil

join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

Legislate THIS!

No good thing has ever come from anyone named Billy.

boomerbubba

join:2001-06-15
Austin, TX

Oh, that Billy Tauzin

I still remember Billy Tauzin best for his memorable quote from 20 years ago: "My vote cannot be bought . . . but it can be rented."
oldhand
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Saugus, MA
·Comcast

Similar "do-not-call" problems...

Since the do-not-call list went into effect, I've been flooded by calls from charities and political organizations looking for money. When I've asked how they got my number, many have stated that they bought a list from the FTC, but quickly added that they weren't covered by the do-not-call law, which is apparently true.

How anyone can believe that a do-not-email list will remain private is beyond me. I grow weary of the shocking lack of understanding of basic technical issues demonstrated by committees, agencies and politicians who are involved in crafting the laws that we will be forced to live under. Either that, or we are literally being sold out.
reslor1

join:2003-01-10
Hackettstown, NJ

Do not spam list?

What idiot would add their e-mail addy to that list.

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
·Vonage

I will NOT . . .

•purchase ANYTHING advertised via spam
•stop complaining about EVERY unsolicited email
•sign up for ANY "do-not-spam" list(s)
•vote for ANY of my representatives who vote for this bill
--
The Rules of Spam | Maryland's New Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket?
anhsupra

join:2002-01-20
San Jose, CA

Re: I will NOT . . .

what kind of freaking politician would propose a bill like that? Most spams originated from oversea anyway. How the hell are u gonna regulate that. Morons. and I hate Arnold.

Mauricio
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-04
Vancouver, BC

Now you see...

He he...

Now you understand how I feel when I see the same politicians making economic policy. They do not understand more economics than they understand technology. (In fact, politics is about all they understand and, of course, given that they got where they got, they are the best at the game).

And no, economics isn't any simpler than technology; if anything, it's more complicated, because, unlike technology, we do not know 100% how it works. I've studied it for 10 years and still don't understand a lot of it; seeing politicians claiming that they will "create jobs", "protect industries", "empower the consumer", "makes me shudder. Those claims have the same validity of Billy Tauzin claiming he will "stop spam".
hoyleysox

join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA
·Time Warner Telecom

criminal penalties

The law does up the ante for spammers. Once it's passed, the no longer will be able to act with imputiny. I doubt we will see a significant reduction in spam on the internet anytime soon though. Spammers will be more careful.

We will have to wait and see how vigorously the laws are enforced. Law enforcement agencies will call for increased monitoring powers... I hope to see a tip line! I expect to see 2-3 inexperienced spammers paraded in front of cameras and made an example of.

The "do not spam" list is a joke though.

Fl-nospam

@209.241.x.x

Re: criminal penalties

with this stupid "do not email list" they need to add decoys that will alert them to who sold the list.

add in someone's email address that is only on that list given to that specific spammer. Make it generic looking and see if it starts getting spam. Then go get the company that was given that list and toss them all in jail with Michael.

BrettStarr
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Las Vegas, NV

Yea, decoys ...

said by Fl-nospam:
with this stupid "do not email list" they need to add decoys that will alert them to who sold the list.
add in someone's email address that is only on that list given to that specific spammer. Make it generic looking and see if it starts getting spam. Then go get the company that was given that list and toss them all in jail with Michael.

Sounds good to me!...like gbush@whitehouse.gov ???
- - Might get some attention - - LOL
oldhand
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Saugus, MA

Re: criminal penalties

A great suggestion -- simple, effective, inexpensive, easy to administer! I hope that you will pass it on to the committee before everything is cast-in-concrete.

Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
I need to see the actual proposal, which hasn't been released, but I don't think it ups the ante for anything.

It appears to legitimize spam, making it legal to spam if you follow guidelines for spamming, which most major industry players already did (don't use phony headers, don't send porn).

Now all major industry (AOL, etc) needs to do is bury some opt-out clause someplace (most legit mailers already do that too) and they're free and clear to spam away.

As for the spammers who actually USE misleading headers and send porn spam, they don't care about laws, this makes absolutely no difference to them....

boomerbubba

join:2001-06-15
Austin, TX

Irony

Members of Congress were persuaded to vote for this bogus proposal by millions of spam lobbying messages sent to their offices.
8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

Opt-out your government representative!

By committing their lousy law to paper, the US government has only made things worse by now giving spammers the legal grounds to operate and avoid prosecution. By default, anything that is not specifically addressed in the law becomes a legal gray-area that a spammer, if caught, can hold up in court and prove they didn't violate any provision in the law.

Think about this. How can they define the meaning of Opt-Out? When you opt-out of a piece of spam, does the opt-out cover all future mail from:

1.) the e-mail address?
2.) the server?
3.) the IP address?
4.) the marketing company?
5.) the product?
6.) the product or service provider?

It's impossible to define because changing 1 variable will and essentially make every spam from any of the sources above, a unique 'new offer' that has to be opted-out of again. Spammers already do this to avoid spam filters, so they don't even have to change their methods to circumvent the opt-out provisions. You can't hit a moving target.

The truth is that most spam has been illegal all along, because it uses stolen bandwidth, stolen e-mail accounts, breaking and entering someones server, and several other illegal activities, yet there have been only a few arrests or convictions because it's nearly impossible to catch them and it's too costly for most ISP's to pursue except for the few worst offenders.

Creating more legislation based on currently unenforceable model is only 'putting teeth in the mouth of a dog who won't hunt', as we say in Georgia!
8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

No-Spam List

If it wasn't such a lame idea that will never work, the No-Spam list proposed by the government should have been required to collect all the legitimate e-mail addresses from ISP's and make it an Opt-Out list as well.

All those special interest groups who lobbied for the Opt-out instead of Opt-in provision of the law would start singing a different tune when thier own rules were used against them.

They would be barred from sending spam to any legitimate e-mail address until that person specifically opted-in to their spam, and those 2 suckers who opted in would get what they deserved!
Forums » Tauzin Claims Spam Victory

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