 
cyberthugin
join:2002-03-12
Kew Gardens, NY
edited
| From Music to Movies Stupid Law
1st post | |
|
 | 
gargzo
How You Doin?
join:2000-11-02
South Bend, IN | Re: From Music to Movies Ok I got the handbasket. Now where did you say we are going?
--
Actual cash value of this post $0.0002. | |
|
| | 
ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: From Music to Movies Why not just shoot 'em then we can show the world "we believe in the rule of law" | |
|
| | | averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ |  Back to the Past
Just call out the Sheriff and blow away the varmint, and save the courts the time of finding out if you actually did anything wrong. | |
|
| | 
shstrang
join:2003-01-10
West Monroe, LA | quote:
Ok I got the handbasket. Now where did you say we are going?
A relocation you say? | |
|
| | | 
CoxCable4
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: From Music to Movies if they dont want us to get our hands on your movie a month before it comes out in theatres then instead why dont you try to better protect it from being distributed before cinematic release? | |
|
| | | | 
bustedauszie
@220.lns02-kent
| Re: From Music to Movies
I stumbled onto a movie, had no idea what the movie was about and decided to download it and watch it. never got around to watching it.
I'm based in Australia, I suspect who ever monitored the download was from America. I've slit hairs over this with my partner regarding copyright laws, I didnt distribute anything I downloaded, the distributor of the movie released it to someone, how did it get on the net.
If someone wants to prosecute me, I have one question. If as a distributor you are so against a movie being made available on the internet, then don't ever distribute it unless it is to the cinemas direct. The movie I downloaded was from an original preview copy, the quality was fantastic yet the illegal act of making it available on the internet, came from their current procedures. Are they really that hard up for funds that they would allow their material to be placed on the net, just so scare tactic's can be placed on individuals like myself? | |
|
|
shstrang
join:2003-01-10
West Monroe, LA
| Okay. So since I don't use file trading services, I have a hardware firewall and I do share out files inside my home network, then how can anyone see those files unless they have hacked into my network thus already breaking the law?
Please answer me this. | |
|
| | 
draven
Premium,Mod
join:2002-02-20
my bunker
Host:
General Questions
No, I Will Not Fix..
| Re: From Music to Movies said by shstrang  :
Okay. So since I don't use file trading services, I have a hardware firewall and I do share out files inside my home network, then how can anyone see those files unless they have hacked into my network thus already breaking the law?
I believe the law takes into assumption the perpetrator is using a P2P service and therefore is openly displaying the files to the world. Otherwise you are correct, they would have to use shady tactics to get into your machine.
--
"They don't go to school to be taught what balls not to touch." - Moises Alou, Chicago Cubs outfielder and unwitting gay rights sympathizer | |
|
| |
Alkyl Carbo-Methyl D
@golden.net
| They might be able to get the people who are downloading without hacking in. The people who are downloading with P2P are usually sharing the bits that they've already got, and the client will usually let other clients know what they're looking for and what parts they have to keep downloading.
For people who have hidden their share directories, unless you've disabled sharing altogether, if a specific download request is made, it will be acknowledged. It doesn't take much to infer that it's the suspect file if the name looks right.
Or, they could do what they've been doing, which is pronounce anyone using P2P software as evil, and come after them with lawyer propaganda leaflets. Most people wouldn't know that they've got nothing. It's a bit like if the police went around and pasted a "we know you sell drugs and we're going to raid you, surrender and we'll go easy on you" notice on every house with a steel reinforced front door and a dog. The people who know they're innocent will toss the note and it will PO a lot of people, but the people who actually are selling the dope might freak and start flushing stuff or surrendering.
In my exagerated example, obviously, the police couldn't raid everyone on their made up hitlist with what they've got without a $#itstorm. Steel door + dog isn't enough grounds for a search, except maybe in Soviet Russia, but the people served with the notices don't know that's all the "evidence" at this point. | |
|
| | | 
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | Re: From Music to Movies Patriot Act People, Patriot Act. Don't forget they do not even need probable cause anymore, and since it is federal law, and a separate Court that handles the warrants, they can pretty much pass out freebies! | |
|
| | | | 
SeVere
join:2001-01-06
Chicago, IL
edited
| Re: From Music to Movies Just to be a devil's advocate here, seeing a file with the name of an unreleased movie in a shared folder, would be probable cause. Probable cause is the belief to a reasonable person that a crime has or is occurring or is about to occur. I being reasonable, if the law says an unreleased movie in a shared folder on a p2p program is a felony, then a person seeing a file named after an unreleased film in a p2p, would believe that file to be the unreleased movie, hence probable cause. It is not a finding of guilt, but would be probable cause. Just like having a big bag of flour packaged like a kilo that says Cocaine on it would be probable cause. | |
|
| | | | |
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
edited
| Re: From Music to Movies What if that file is named so, for example if I'm at home or school working on an essay, debacle, report, summary, or other form of educational document, maybe even a parody film, and I decided to name it the films name just because it was easy to remember? What if I'm preparing to write this essay and have pre-screening tickets (which I often get), and am going to get to see and review the movie before it's release, and share with other people my review of the screening using p2p? What if I'm just compiling a list of Upcoming movies, and for review sake, I'm making it a video review? | |
|
| | | | | |
SeVere
join:2001-01-06
Chicago, IL
| Re: From Music to Movies Well, if it were only a list it would be a kind of text file and not a video file. Same with the review. A reasonable person working on a parody film, would not share it via p2p because they are concerned about finishing the film without their idea being hijacked and someone else finishing the work before they do. Therefore, all of your concerns would not diminish the probable cause that existed. Any of your issues would be made issues at a later court hearing and not diminish any probable cause that existed. To be a devil's advocate again, what if I was a baker, and I loved to carry my flour packaged like a kilogram of cocaine and labled it cocaine, because i found it funny and amusing. Would that diminish probable cause? The answer is no. | |
|
| 
craiglester
Mandrake , Gp. Capt
join:2003-05-02
Denver, CO
| Way i See it is this, Bit torrent, Kazaa Emule etc all share a file automatically as you start to download it - therfore they're trying to make downloading a felony, as you can't do one without the other..
This way all those people who say I only download I never share files are liable now to prosecution.
I have seen "hacked" versions of most of these types of Program and all most of them do is disable upload, but the file is still in your shared directory, and if a machine tries to connect to you to download that file then does that prove you have it in a shared directory, even if upload is disabled? a very shaky position to be in legally if this law is passed.
I think this whole law isn't really just to stop sharing - it's to stop downloading too.
And frankly that scares me, what next? no net access without a secure key issued by the MPAA or RIAA so they can monitor us? | |
|
| | |
| | | 
Jhon
join:2001-05-14
Northridge, CA
| Re: Not exactly... If I am reading the ARTP act correctly (Or would that be ART Prevention Act (heh)), you just need to have a COPY of the file. Sharing/distributing isn't required. You have it, BAMM -- $250k fine/time in jail.
Seems funny that I'd suffer harsher penalties under the law for having a copy of the Hulk 1 week before it opened than I would for beating the crap out of a stranger with a bat.
-j | |
|
| | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: Not exactly... said by Jhon :
If I am reading the ARTP act correctly (Or would that be ART Prevention Act (heh)), you just need to have a COPY of the file. Sharing/distributing isn't required. You have it, BAMM -- $250k fine/time in jail.
Seems funny that I'd suffer harsher penalties under the law for having a copy of the Hulk 1 week before it opened than I would for beating the crap out of a stranger with a bat.
-j
I dunno. If you beat the crap out of the stranger with a bat, you'd go to jail no matter what.
If you shared a single copy of the Hulk as a first time offender, I doubt seriously you'd face more than a fine. | |
|
| | | | averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
| said by Jhon :
Seems funny that I'd suffer harsher penalties under the law for having a copy of the Hulk 1 week before it opened than I would for beating the crap out of a stranger with a bat.
I think that is what is bothering everyone so much is
(IMO) that big business can push the courts around including the FBI. These are acts of a non-violent nature (ie: copy right) go way over the top in punishment including jail time and fines.
Yet HUGE white collar crimes such as Enron, Arthur Anderson go lightly punished if at all. I do not consider a big wig simply resigning his position as CEO as punishment.
Where is the balance? Equity? | |
|
| | | | | 
TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX
| Re: Not exactly... said by averagedude :
said by Jhon :
Seems funny that I'd suffer harsher penalties under the law for having a copy of the Hulk 1 week before it opened than I would for beating the crap out of a stranger with a bat.
I think that is what is bothering everyone so much is
(IMO) that big business can push the courts around including the FBI. These are acts of a non-violent nature (ie: copy right) go way over the top in punishment including jail time and fines.
Yet HUGE white collar crimes such as Enron, Arthur Anderson go lightly punished if at all. I do not consider a big wig simply resigning his position as CEO as punishment.
Where is the balance? Equity?
A what? Where? In USA? Please.
--
Who drank has died, who drinks will die. Is he immortal who is sober? | |
|
| | | | 
Pyrion
Liquid Metal Nanomorph
join:2001-12-01
Poway, CA
clubs: | The only way they'd know if you have a copy of the file is if you share it publicly online. Duh.
--
/* You are not expected to understand this. */ | |
|
| hybridmath
join:2003-11-13
Providence, RI
| Bull***t this goverment is abusing their powers they took out saddam for less then what their doing. my god what next you cant leave your house without taking the mark of the beast. people need to wake up and take up arms for real. i'm glad i dont go and fight for a country like this. it's all political and little by little their taking all our freedoms. You watch soon they'll say take the mark or die. this is all abuse of power. im gonna get the hell out of dodge soon 4 real. | |
|
| | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: From Music to Movies said by hybridmath :
Bull***t this goverment is abusing their powers they took out saddam for less then what their doing. my god what next you cant leave your house without taking the mark of the beast. people need to wake up and take up arms for real. i'm glad i dont go and fight for a country like this. it's all political and little by little their taking all our freedoms. You watch soon they'll say take the mark or die. this is all abuse of power. im gonna get the hell out of dodge soon 4 real.
I love posts like this. When are you "gonna get the hell out of dodge"? I always like to follow up, so if you could post when you are moving and where you are moving to, I'd be extremely interested. Plus your experiences could provide valuable insight to others contemplating such an action, but not quite bold enough to declare their intention.
Honestly, I've been a little disappointed so far in people who post they are leaving the country for some reason or the other. The last one posted he was moving to Canada if Cable providers kept soft caps, yet despite repeated questioning by me, he refused to provide any information on when he was leaving. This time, I know I won't be disappointed because you said you are leaving "4 real".
So, when are you leaving and where are you going? | |
|
| | | |
| | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: From Music to Movies said by morbo :
give the guy a break. the main point of his post was that our freedoms are being slowly taken away and that the country was lied to about the war with iraq.
instead of nit picking him with "when are you going to leave??" why not respond to his main points?
Because I really didn't understand what he was trying to say, although I did get he is angry and leaving.
Regardless, if someone posts they are leaving the country (I assumed, since this is a Federal law) because of X, I don't think it's nitpicking to be curious as to more details - especially when I don't really understand the original rant. | |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | | 
SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Re: From Music to Movies Sooner or later everybody has to take a shot at supremacy.
--
MediaXPeer | |
|
| | 
Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| We took out Saddam for less? Since when was a file sharer ever seen torturing people? When was the last time a file sharer put someone in a room with an intricate PVC pipe system designed to drip acid at random points of the room causing the person to run around the room until they drop of exhaustion then killed slowly as the acid then drips on them? When was the last time a file sharer held back an entire nation of people?
You don't fight for a country like this because your a coward. They're taking your freedoms because you're letting them.
Please get the hell out of dodge as you put it. And do it soon, you'll make the world a better place to live. | |
|
| | | hobbesk
join:2002-03-24
Seattle, WA
| Re: From Music to Movies Apparently, file traders ARE TORTURING, RAPING, PILLAGING the poor little defenseless RIAA CEO's and their cronies. Thus the Gallant Chivalrous U.S. Government has to step in and Defend all the Fat Little Pigs that are being Tortured, Raped, and Pillaged by the evil File sharers. | |
|
| | | AnyOlTech
join:2003-10-30
Oakland, CA
edited
| People who say they are going to leave the country aren't. If you were really upset enough to leave, you would. How about if something upsets so much that you would blast the country that gives you the freedom to rant openly, then how about you stand up and take the fight to the government and help repeal the laws and regulations which draws your ire.
If you have any love for the country, you would fight to defend it. This means fighting with the military, or fighting with the people who follow your same ideology to make changes in our nation's laws.
If your not willing to fight for the country then please leave -- your sucking up resources our country could be using somewhere else. If you need help leaving the country, send me a message and I will help with the arrangements. | |
|
| | 
Z1N67
Legend Of Z1n6 Sexual Prous Spread?
Premium
join:2003-10-15
Ukraine
| NOTE: this is in response to the post by cyberthugin
Re: From Music to Movies
people need to wake up and take up arms for real. i'm glad i dont go and fight for a country like this. it's all political and little by little their taking all our freedoms. You watch soon they'll say take the mark or die. this is all abuse of power. im gonna get the hell out of dodge soon 4 real.
NOTE: this a post by Z1N6
Z1N6 agrees my brother! Gun is the answer. I ain't goin out like that. I aint goin out.Usual times I live with that. No more | |
|
| |
|
SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Luckily, the only divx files I have are the ones I ripped myself, except for those SVCDs...
--
MediaXPeer | |
|
| |
wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| I sort of agree.... As many have said before, shorten the life of copyright. I'd agree to not have any copies of unreleased movies, or even movies that are less than two years old. But after that, when they are out on television and in the library for free, they should be allowed anywhere for free.
puritan | |
|
| 
TheHelpful1
Premium
join:2002-01-11
Upper Marlboro, MD
 ·EarthLink
| Re: I sort of agree.... Instead of screeners, why not release cliff noted movies?
If you have seen the Big Trouble DVD with tim allen you know what i mean. For those who haven't, here's the rundown.
In the dvd menu you have an option that says "10minute movie" or something like that. When you load it, it skips through the entire movie (90 minutes or more?) and gives the jist of the movie in a short period.
If they released these instead of trailers, more people would decide "hey, that movie is worth seeing, i think i will!"
If they skipped over deep plot lines it would make the viewer want to see how and what happened.
--
"Not that you would, but you could" | |
|
|
Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| You make absolutely no sense. So let's see, if I create a painting, or a song, or a book, it should be free to the world after I die?
It's still mine! Even after I'm dead! Just because I die doesn't mean that you should be able to step in and get it.
There would be a ton of artists of many genres rolling in their graves if you got your stupid wish...
Rembrant, DaVinci, Chopin, Hendrix, just to name a few... | |
|
| | wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | Re: I sort of agree.... I must make good sense, because you got it right. What are you going to do with it when you're dead?
puritan | |
|
| | Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC | The original copy would still be yours (actually it would be who you willed it to). But you (your benefactor) can no longer hold intellectual property rights over the item, so people can use the idea without having to pay you. | |
|
AlexNYC
join:2001-06-02
Edwards, CO |  And what if ...
| |
|
| joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL | Re: And what if ... Obviously this (like most of our criminal laws) is only applicable to American citizens or people living in our country. | |
|
| apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA | Good point. Not much can be done about that. Isn't China a haven for bootlegs anyway? | |
|
| | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: And what if ... said by apollo80 :
Good point. Not much can be done about that. Isn't China a haven for bootlegs anyway?
Well, there are illegal (ie underage etc.) porn websites on the Internet, many overseas, but they are still illegal in the US. This is kinda the same theory - at least control it where you can. | |
|
| | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| Re: And what if ... Why don't you assholes who want to control everything, as well as everybody else, just move to some place like Singapore? There you can live out your grasping, desperate, anal lives in a perfect, "benign" totalitarian state? Why, you can peep and rat on all your friends and neighbors to your heart's content (don't forget, they're watching YOU, TOO). Leave the rest of us, who want to keep our freedoms, alone to wrestle with the undoing of the web of unjust, anti-American laws you and your kind have cheered on and helped bull through our corrupt political process in the last few years!
$250,000.00 fine, AND 3 to 5 YEARS in a Federal Pen.! Yeah, that's "justice".
M.P.A.A. and R.I.A.A. can kiss my big hairy... | |
|
kaisa
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs:
edited
| hmm wonder if mIRC counts as "shared" or if its just kazaa (edit: and other p2p's) | |
|
| |
liht
Acryllicht
join:2000-07-11
Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
| interesting... easiest solution...copy the file to an unshared folder! booyah!
but i wonder...most programs keep the file shared while its being downloaded (like BT). would an incomplete file, count as a whole, and thus illegal? or would the file have to be the complete thing, from header to trailer to the darn extension before its technically a real file.
i think therefore i am; i produce junky cam quality with bad sound, therefore i am an unreleased movie (yes i know, dvd's, but lots of people aren't giving out dvd screeners anymore).
there should be a big proposal by the mpaa and riaa. "please don't steal our music/movies until we actually put it in stores/theatres, so some people will at least buy it first; after that steal away."
--
printf("My Sig is Null") | |
|
garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
·Insight Communicat..
| Yawn Why is that we're supposed to legislate every goddamn thing in the world? Why can't these companies/organizations control their own products?
Hey, we're too lazy to police ourselves, so we have to police everyone else? What a waste of taxpayer dollars. | |
|
|
See 7 replies to this post |
|
broknsymetry
What Time Is It And Why?
Premium
join:2003-06-27
THE VOID
clubs:
edited
| Future Prosecution Practices
"It says we don't care if anybody got any of these copies," Jaszi* said. "We're going to conclude that at least 10 people did. It relieves the copyright owner of having to prove that any violation of their rights actually happened."
becomes
"We don't care if he killed anybody. We're going to conclude that he killed at least 10 people. It relieves the state of having to prove that any violation of the law actually happened."
EDIT:*Peter Jaszi, a professor at American University who teaches copyright law, said he is "deeply troubled" by the wording of the draft legislation, because it does not say any actual copyright infringement must take place--only that the file be available in a shared folder, Web site or FTP (File Transfer Protocol) site.
--
Some scientist may at last disperse
The mysteries of the universe
But me, I can not even think
Why pork is white and ham is pink
--Ogden Nash | |
|
| 
ObdH
Premium
join:2003-06-11 | Re: Future Prosecution Practices the title tries to make it sound like just possessing it is criminal but it actually says having it in a shared folder...IE SHARING IT
duh no different than music, etc | |
|
| |
broknsymetry
What Time Is It And Why?
Premium
join:2003-06-27
THE VOID
clubs:
| Re: Future Prosecution Practices And when it is uploaded to an anonymous FTP site without permission of the site owner (as many are) the site owner is then sentenced to three years in prison without proof of infringement? This will be as bad or worse than the DMCA.
--
Some scientist may at last disperse
The mysteries of the universe
But me, I can not even think
Why pork is white and ham is pink
--Ogden Nash | |
|
| | |
Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Re: Future Prosecution Practices No it's not as bad or worse. If you put up an anon FTP then YOU are responcible for what's on it.
Just like if you open a public skate park and some kid gets hurt YOU are responcible for it. Get up off your butt and fix your skatepark.
Just like you may have a public sidewalk infront of your house, but if you don't shovel it during the winter and some old bitty slips and breaks her hip, YOU are the one that is going to get sued. Get up off your butt and shovel your walk.
If you're too lazy to administrate your anon FTP properly and keep things like this out (and yourself out of trouble) you deserve everything day of prison you get. As you have asked for it. Get up off your butt and monitor your FTP. | |
|
| | | |
broknsymetry
What Time Is It And Why?
Premium
join:2003-06-27
THE VOID
clubs:
| Re: Future Prosecution Practices
I suppose if someone disposes of a murder weapon in your backyard then you would be responsible for the crime and be subject to the death penalty. I realize that this is an extreme example, but let's not forget the case where the DMCA was used by the RIAA against an elderly gentleman who had no knowledge that he had infringing files on his pc. No proof of intent was needed then even though by definition of the NET intent is a fundamental factor in prosecuting criminal copyright infringement. It is my opinion that any law that reduces or eliminates burden of proof is a bad law. If the criminal laws were to be re-written in this way, then perhaps my example would not be so extreme.
--
Some scientist may at last disperse
The mysteries of the universe
But me, I can not even think
Why pork is white and ham is pink
--Ogden Nash | |
|
| | | | 
number1melon
Premium
join:2003-01-17
Fort Lauderdale, FL
| Someone should offer insurance for this kind of thing. You pay a premium, and if you get sued or something of that nature, you should get insurance money. I bet theres money to be made.
--
"I'll strip you down, shove you in a trash can, light you on fire, and roll you down the street. | |
|
user_hater
join:2001-12-14
Tyler, TX
| Film Trading Felony are they going to verify that its an unreleased movie b4 locking me up? what if i have a file named lotr-returnoftheking.avi in my shared folder. will they download it first to see if it's the real movie, or when the fbi kick in my door i can have them sit down and enjoy the movie trailer thats on tv that i downloaded? | |
|
| petecellar
join:2002-10-15
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: Film Trading Felony Good point.
From what I've seen, they will arrest you first. Then have it wind it's way through the courts until the evidence finally shows that it was just a file that was named after a copyrighted film.
Then the MPAA would make some kind of statement about "people should think before they shared a file that masquerades as a copyrighted work"... blahblahblah...
They're going to become as hated as the RIAA soon, and that sucks because I'd hate to have to boycott films like I do music. | |
|
| | |
| 
aliasrlz
Premium
join:2000-09-01
the world
| JAIL CELL 101:
"What are you in for?"
"Had a copy of Elf on my hard drive, what about you?"
..."Oh, I murdered 3 people"....
Just F*cking GREAT!
--
If you have to ask what EFNET is, you don't need broadband  | |
|
Not exactly...
