Alberta SuperNetMassive project on schedule ( old news - 06:48PM Wednesday Oct 29 2003) tags: bandwidth · world While the US remains bogged down in regulatory debate, the massive Canadian SuperNet project exemplifies why the country ranks near the top in global broadband adoption. The Alberta SuperNet project will connect 4,700 libraries, schools, hospitals and government offices, cover a distance of more than 6,800 miles, and connect 395 rural communities. Alberta will spend $193 million on the project, which is being constructed with the cooperation of 27 contractors, Bell West, Bell Canada, and Manitoba Telecom Services. Despite predictions of delays, the project is on schedule, according to this report from the Calgary Herald. Canada continues to lead the majority of nations in per capita broadband adoption behind only South Korea. Nearly half of all web users; 2.8 million households, have broadband connections. Additional information on the project is available via the SuperNet website, or from this SuperNet guide at Userful.com.
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tmccann11
Who, Me?
Premium
join:2001-06-10
Bayonne, NJ
clubs: | One Day One day we'll be up there on the list.....One day  | |
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Lokro
Premium
join:2002-12-28
Loveland, CO | Re: One Day Who would of thought a positive article about broadband in Canada would start a political thread. Strange........ | |
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cyberthugin
join:2002-03-12
Kew Gardens, NY | Thats why the usa will always be behind shit cuz some much politics involved. Thats why I want to move to canada. | |
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Iowan5
Premium
join:2002-11-27
Des Moines, IA |  Nice
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX | Re: Nice Don't talk about it, be about it.
Go on, get. | |
| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Hey, I'll see you there, in the country rated as the second best (after Norway I believe) in the world to live in by the UN. | |
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daniyel
join:2001-05-10
Tucson, AZ | ...Go Canada, and see u in a few years | |
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av8ndv8
Premium
join:2003-05-19
Albuquerque, NM | No FTTH here, we gotta rebuild Iraq Too bad the US has to spend 1,000 times that much in Iraq. How much does a Nuke cost? Should be a lot cheaper solution, then we could actually spend some money over here for a change.
B | |
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Stewy85
Premium
join:2003-01-16
Sharon, WI
clubs: | Re: No FTTH here, we gotta rebuild Iraq As much as that sounds cruel....I agree. | |
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX
| Whenever the US government spends money, where do you think it goes? I mean it is not just thrown away. Our company is seeing many projects and a lot of money come our way because the government is rebuilding Iraq. And we are just a small company.
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Trusted Computing will destroy the information age! Educate yourself at »www.againsttcpa.com | |
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annony
@dynamic.cov | Re: No FTTH here, we gotta rebuild Iraq Is that just in Texas? Because California doesn't she shit... | |
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av8ndv8
Premium
join:2003-05-19
Albuquerque, NM
| said by Seandhi  :
Whenever the US government spends money, where do you think it goes? I mean it is not just thrown away. Our company is seeing many projects and a lot of money come our way because the government is rebuilding Iraq. And we are just a small company.
And where would those improvements be if the work was done here instead of Iraq? Building intrastructure over there doesn't help me a damned bit.
You sound happy to be profiting from our government wasting our money rebuilding Iraq. Surely you'd rather be doing the work over here...
B | |
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Speedy8
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
clubs: | Speeds So what kind of speeds does this have? Or is it just some kind of major backbone for ISPs to connect from? | |
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jbcalg
Premium
join:2001-10-08
Calgary, AB
 ·Shaw
| Re: Speeds »www.albertasupernet.ca
couldn't find any specific speeds cited, but the FAQs talk about video conferencing and other highspeed uses so i'd guess that the primary users would get pretty nice connections
primary users are municipalities, schools, health care etc
additional bandwidth can be provided to "for wholesale purchase by commercial service providers", then those ISPs would have to decide how to divvy it up - at and at what price
overall a nice plan, and good to see it actually happening instead of the different levels of govt just talking about the importance of it
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Team Discovery | TD Project Hope ... Help Find the Cure(s)
[text was edited by author 2003-10-29 20:05:50] | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
| Where's the tired excuse about population density? Whenever you hear about Japan, Korea, China, Switzerland, or some other place jumping ahead in Broadband/FTTH you always hear the apologists and monopoly-defenders post about the Geography of the U.S.A. and population density and how the U.S.A. is much more rural then _________ (Fill in what ever other country the article was about.)
Anyone care to argue that Canada has a greater population density then the USA and has a much smaller landmass?
Anyone?
Didn't think so. Perhaps we should just admit we're falling behind because our entrenched industries are monopolistic, slow, foot dragging entities that have be forced to do anything.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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T RAVER
join:2003-10-02
Calgary, AB
| Re: Where's the tired excuse about population density? I think we found the first solid evidence on why pure democratic capitalism has a draw back.
The Alberta Supernet is funded by taxpayers of the province (upon which it is somewhat of a socialist project funded by government and taxpayers and not business). A lot of American business always interrupt when government regulates or initiates industry because of the American stance of free Capitalism.
Canada (thank God) is not absolute capitalism, and therefore it can initiate and help people along through a grand universal lesson we learn as children, 'we can all get a long if we all share'. We will have socialized Hospitalization, socialized welfare system and soon socialized internet so those who are unable to be reached by cooperation's will have the same privileges as those who do...
God Bless Canada! 
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~Restlessness and discontent are the first necessities of progress.~ Thomas Edison | |
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX
| Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens What's the tax rate out there in Canada, eh? Why is it that books/electronics/everything cost so much more out there in Canada, eh? What major exports do you have in Canada, eh? How do you like people that don't want to work live off of your hard work, eh?
Canada needs to know what it feels like to not have Big Brother USA give them everything. I say we stop importing/giving money to Canada, then let's see how great this so-called socialism is.
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Trusted Computing will destroy the information age! Educate yourself at »www.againsttcpa.com | |
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX
| Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens 209,088 millions Purchased from Canada
160,923 millions Sold to Canada
That is a trade deficit of over 48,000 millions. How is that not helping out little brother Canada?
That 45% of our economy drivel is a little off... It is more like 15%. Look it up man.
»www.ita.doc.gov/td/industry/otea···con.html
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Trusted Computing will destroy the information age! Educate yourself at »www.againsttcpa.com | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| amazing you would say something like that. our President said Jesus Christ spoke to him personally and you're worried about Canada's politics? ask any psychiatrist if what they thought about someone saying JC himself spoke to them and they would say he is delusional. | |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs:
| Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens Seriously? Has any President other than President Beavis said that?
I know he made up for the fact that he's a moron by having good advisers, but they should have stopped him before he said that stupid sh*t.
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MediaXPeer | |
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Roymacho
join:2002-12-14
Moncton, NB
| said by Seandhi :
What's the tax rate out there in Canada, eh? Why is it that books/electronics/everything cost so much more out there in Canada, eh? What major exports do you have in Canada, eh? How do you like people that don't want to work live off of your hard work, eh?
Canada needs to know what it feels like to not have Big Brother USA give them everything. I say we stop importing/giving money to Canada, then let's see how great this so-called socialism is.
umm ,, Alberta does not have provincial taxes,, that's why the provice (like a state) is constantly growing economically. It's major exports are OIL,,, and BEEF! | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
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| said by Seandhi :
What's the tax rate out there in Canada, eh?
Question: What do you would think the U.S. tax rate would be if we stopped borrowing money and made the budgets balance? Yes, I see your answer coming, "If we just cut back spending...." and I agree somewhat, but guess what, our politicians will NEVER cut back on the important stuff, the expensive stuff, and so, in the future we are approaching 1 of 2 solutions:
1) National bankruptcy, the collapse of our markets, and Government; or 2) Still more and higher taxes.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX
| Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens or 3) Get out and do something about our government. Extend our debates into the real world, and get people to VOTE.
The government is supposed to work for us. It will whenever people start to get involved. What is the average voter turnout for non-presidential elections? 1% ? I agree: Government will continue to spend, but I don't think that we have to limit our outcomes bending over and taking it in the rear. I for one can't touch my ankles, and I will do something before I have to.
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Trusted Computing will destroy the information age! Educate yourself at »www.againsttcpa.com | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
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| Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens said by Seandhi :
or 3) Get out and do something about our government. Extend our debates into the real world, and get people to VOTE.
Maybe I'm becoming too cynical, but I think this option #3 won't happen until it's too late. Especially as the people who currently vote pretty much support the status quo and indirectly (whether they realize it or not) outcome #1 or #2.
Personally I think #2 will end up leading to #3, but we'll be then stuck for a LONG time in #2 paying for it.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX
| Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens Unfortunately, I agree that it will be too late before we do something. I fear that it will be much more radical than just getting out and voting  That is more reason to get out, now, and start doing something.
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Trusted Computing will destroy the information age! Educate yourself at »www.againsttcpa.com | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens BTW thumbs up on your tagline. Trusted Computing. I think I rather give up using a computer! | |
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shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
| said by Seandhi :
What's the tax rate out there in Canada, eh?
Ok, let's clear up a few misconceptions right now. Back to the topic at hand, the Alberta SuperNet project. Albertans pay the lowest personal income tax in Canada. Alberta has no sales tax. This SuperNet project is being entirely funded by the Alberta government. There's no federal money involved. Which means that if you take the federal tax out of the equation, Albertans are getting a very good deal here. So to say that the US couldn't do it without raising taxes is false.
As well, to argue against the "free market" vs. "socialism" crowd understand this: There are only 2 companies in Canada which could roll out a project this big, Telus and Bell Canada. Telus is the ILEC in Alberta, Bell Canada is the ILEC in Ontario and Quebec (Bell West is a subsidiary of Bell Canada). If you tried to award a project like this in the states, there would be a court battle as soon as the project winner was announced. There would be a dozen US companies big enough to do this, but they would all want a piece of the pie.
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The CRTC. Stealing money, one Canadian at a time. / Canadian Wireless FAQ | |
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blueeyesm
join:2003-09-05
Waterloo, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| You also don't seem to realize that for every U.S. Dollar, it works out to being $1.32 CDN ( as of 10/31/03 via »www.xe.com/ucc/ ). Thus - you come over the border to a city here, convert your money and you can buy Canadian goods cheaper than what you can in your state. | |
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blueeyesm
join:2003-09-05
Waterloo, ON | Re: Where's the tired excuse about population dens Not meant for you - was meant for Gentoo... sorry,... | |
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rgoulet
join:2000-10-27
Pittsburgh, PA
| Ah, here is that Canadians-are-taxes-to-death-while-Americans-aren't nonsense everyone seems to believe. My own little unscientific study of people I know on either side of the border shows exactly how much nonsense this is.
I have 2 friends in Canada who run their own business. Each earns well over 6 figures a year, and on average neither one of them pays over 20% in annual income tax (federal and provincial combined). I guess those write-offs really add up. Furthermore, even though they are self-employed they still only pay a couple hundred dollars a year for full health-care coverage (whereas health-care coverage and cost are BIG issues to anyone in the US wishing to leave their safe corporate jobs for doing their own thing).
Let's compare this to 2 other friends of mine who also make over 6 figures. 1 is a director at a big telco in NY, and the other a recruiter in CA. My NY director friend pays roughly 45%-50% of his income to various levels of government through taxes (I'm not even counting sales taxes here). My CA recruiter friend isn't too far behind paying about 40%. She would like to start her own business, but doing so would mean going on COBRA. And given her current level of coverage for her and her kids this would mean she would be out of pocket over $300 more per month (not per year like in Canada). Then of course after her COBRA runs out... well, that would be a few more bucks and perhaps some reduced coverage.
Yes I am comparing 2 self-employed Canadians with 2 corporate drones in America, and yes I admit that this is kind of an apples and oranges sort of comparison. However I only intended to show that the universally accepted truism that all Canadians are taxed much higher than all Americans at similar income levels is absolutely not true. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
| Free capitalism in America is a myth. Companies like to roll out "Free Enterprise" and "Free Market" whenever it suits their interests (ie, as in, don't interfere while we crush competition, monopolize, or block competition...") but in reality we don't have a free enterprise system either.
It's really a good thing we didn't, because if we relied purely on corporate morals and business ethics, well, guess what, we'd all be screwed....
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
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mrherzog
join:2001-05-06
Coquitlam, BC | You did mean to say that the US has a much smaller land mass compared to Canada...right? | |
| shuubz
A Good Kind Of Pain
join:2001-02-12
Dexter, MI
| Now you've done it...
There's so much confusion between economic and political systems (actively encouraged by corporate sponsorship for the message) that a book had to be written to point out the obvious difference ("One Market under God" - look it up on Amazon).
There is a difference, and a free market has nothing to do with a political system.
Anyone who's curious about the "virtues" of true, laissez-faire capitalism can read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" (written at the turn of the LAST century). It's food for thought, but critical thinking is now discouraged here.
That book used to be required reading in schools, until someone decided that properly programmed, compliant little consumers who watch FOX "News" (and swallow whatever drivel is fed to them) are "what America needs".
Who needs an educated citizenry when blind patriotism is so much more convenient?
Those of you who wish to question my patriotism, please note that I served in the armed forces before it became "trendy" to join up (and before one out of every 5 commercials on TV was for the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines).
To answer screams of "Who do you think you are?!" in advance, I paid my dues, and can question whatever I like. | |
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See 21 replies to this post | |
Lorcan8
join:2001-03-20
Rosemount, MN
|  FTTH and more
I agree with these faults you guys seem to point out, but I think we should put those words into actions. I live in Minnesota, and we are making an example of this. Everyone talks about the high drug costs, and how they are 80% cheaper in Canada when they are MADE HERE but never do anything about it. I'm sure you have heard our Governor proposing to "start a revolution" in the sense of everyone importing drugs from Canada to force them to lower the prices. I, too, think we shouldn't spend so much on Iraq right now---hell, we shouldn't have even gone in there because we have enough problems HERE that need to be fixed. Am I right or what? :P
I concur, Canadians are awesome and there are quite a few I've encountered in Minnesota (understandable), including someone from Toronto that was working here as a Pharmacist and he was a great man. We shouldn't get upset just because they're building a big network--we have many of those. Besides, don't forget that we have some big projects of our own regarding this stuff so don't get so jealous and talk of cutting off trade or something.
Well, those are my 2 cents They're just opinions (though some are facts), so don't forget that. | |
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toronto2001
Premium
join:2001-08-10
Markham, ON | Re: FTTH and more SEEB!!!!! | |
| no_coin
join:2002-10-17
Tyngsboro, MA
| COMPUSA pushes free AOL My brother in law just bought a PC at compusa and they insisted on signing him up for free AOL dialup. Even after he said he didn't want it cause he has another DSL service. They signed him up anyway.
COMPUSA should be spanked for pushing the AOL service onto customers that don't want or need it - must be some sort of kick back somewhere. | |
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linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State | Re: COMPUSA pushes free AOL I would kill any computer deal if I was forced to sign up for AOL or any other ISP -- even it it was free for life. It's not only absurd it is not an anti fair-trade practice. | |
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rgoulet
join:2000-10-27
Pittsburgh, PA | Yeah, but CompUSA is owed by Mexicans--and what the hell do they know about fair trade practices??
(for the sarcasm-challenged: I'm totally kidding)
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| Y2KickIT
join:2003-06-29
Mcminnville, OR
|  Public Investment Required
When that technology creates or replaces a national infrastructure, it requires an investment orders of magnitude greater than the largest private investment can afford.
The incumbents are raising (cable) rates and profit margins to pay off the debt of overpriced mergers, acquisitions, and bad investments. Voice is getting cheaper each year. They don't have the money.
If the private investor did try to finance it on the users of the infrastructure, it would fail, the price required for the ROI demanded by the financial markets would push it over the acceptable price to the customers.
Why do you think the Railroads, Highways, and Air travel systems were financed and built by actions of the federal government? Get a clue. This is national infrastructure needed to remain competitive in the global market WE created.
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. | |
| wiwaxy_500
join:2003-09-29
Edmonton, AB
| Socialist? Please. This is the same Alberta government that sold the provincial phone company, deregulated electricity and natural gas rates, and is continually trying to dismantle the public health care system. They gave tax cuts to the rich, axed half the civil servants, and think the homeless should pay rent in shelters.
So why are they footing the bill for the Supernet? Simple, the rural vote has kept them in power for 30+ years. And they can use the bandwidth to provide the same education, health care, and government services as available in the big cities. Keep your voters happy.
And the money to pay for it is coming more from Oil and Gas royalties than tax dollars. If the U.S. was not such a voracious consumer of O&G they probably couldn't afford it either. So thanks, I guess. | |
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