FCC Moves on DRM - Controlling digital content becomes hot issue

FCC Moves on DRM
Controlling digital content becomes hot issue
(old news - 03:03PM Thursday Oct 16 2003)
tags: fcc · business

As if the FCC hadn't been the center of enough controversy lately, the Commission is jumping head first into the digital rights management debate. New guidelines, designed to fend off digital content piracy, could embed a "broadcast flag" in digital television signals, requiring hardware manufacturers to modify consumer equipment accordingly. With broadband hitting the mainstream, there's a serious push by the entertainment industry to thwart distribution of video content over the Internet. Unlike the recent media consolidation and broadband deregulation agendas, The Washington Post reports the FCC is fairly unified on their "broadcast flag" initiative. Critics charge the concept violates consumers fair use rights, and inconveniences them by forcing them to buy new equipment (check out this criticism piece over at P2P.net).

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Forums » FCC Moves on DRM


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Brianv5 Low Level Functionary Premium join:2001-01-20 Keyser, WV	The meeting to schedule more meetings Anyone else notice how unproductive the government is? I think they sit around looking for $hit to get into. As if there isn't anything else in the country to work on, lets worry about digital rights! Slackers, if they had real jobs they'd get fired. -- Anything can be tweaked!
	permalink · 2003-10-16 15:07:06 ·

rideboarder
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Re: The meeting to schedule more meetings

said by Brianv5 :
Anyone else notice how unproductive the government is?
I think they sit around looking for $hit to get into.

As if there isn't anything else in the country to work on, lets worry about digital rights!

Slackers, if they had real jobs they'd get fired.

They don't want to go after the real problems, because they would be too difficult for them to solve.

permalink · 2003-10-16 15:12:18 · Print ·

Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY ·Qwest.net	If you want and easy way of having input to this issue go here. »action.eff.org/action/index.asp You can send you congressional delegation e-mail concerning this. -- I love Irish Terriers, Low Brass, and the electric blue glow of an 866 mercury vapor rectifier tube at night.
	permalink · 2003-10-18 01:52:59 ·

TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
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DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

They will make a new security technology which in a year will be hacked again. Sure that manufactures in Taiwan will even leave a back door open like with DVD players where you can turn Macrovision and regions off. If people wish, it won't pose a problem the new security scheme. I think it is a waste of everyone's time and $$$. DVDs are hacked. Even cable signal is hacked. Dish is hacked. Seems that GameCube was resently hacked. Cable modems were hacked. 802.11b WEP can be hacked. Should I go on?
--
Who drank has died, who drinks will die. Is he immortal who is sober?

permalink · 2003-10-16 15:22:23 · Print ·

Kilroy Premium,MVM join:2002-11-21 Ann Arbor, MI ·WOW Internet and C..	Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So... The only way to make something secure is to make it so no one can use it. Since at that point it is nothing more than a rock it isn't of much use. Any lock can be opened as locks only keep honest people honest. -- I know these things from my life long class at the school of Hard Knocks.
	permalink · 2003-10-16 15:25:03 ·

MarkinCT What Are You Looking Here For? Premium join:2003-09-03 West Hartford, CT	said by TexasGuy : They will make a new security technology which in a year will be hacked again. A year? The "outrage" factor will probably motivate enough of the 'digital community' to get it cracked in 6 weeks... or less. But we'll be paying for it... One way or another. -- MarkH - wireless and clueless...
	permalink · 2003-10-16 15:25:51 · Print ·

Cybertoad

join:2001-11-08
Houston, TX

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

said by MarkinCT :

said by TexasGuy :
They will make a new security technology which in a year will be hacked again.
A year? The "outrage" factor will probably motivate enough of the 'digital community' to get it cracked in 6 weeks... or less.

But we'll be paying for it... One way or another.

Actually history has shown that most security of this
nature is defeated BEFORE the public release. The
rest are usually defeated VERY SHORTLY thereafter.

permalink · 2003-10-16 16:39:20 · Print ·

KrK
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said by MarkinCT :
But we'll be paying for it... One way or another.

Amen... but remember, "cracking" the "Broadcast Flag" would be an automatic D.M.C.A. violation.

Yes Folks, As predicted, the day is coming where you can be imprisoned for the almighty crime of daring to Record a TV show. You filthy Terrorist!
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

permalink · 2003-10-16 23:09:58 · Print ·

oliphant5
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Even US DVD players can be hacked if you can even call it that. Most have built into their firmware the ability to change the region or even to region free should you know the "secret" code to enter into your remote. I did this to my cheesy Oritron (and the site listed hundreds of players from virtually every manufacturer) to play some anime DVDs that weren't available for region 1.
--
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permalink · 2003-10-16 15:27:30 · Print ·

vic102482
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Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

said by oliphant5 :
Even US DVD players can be hacked if you can even call it that. Most have built into their firmware the ability to change the region or even to region free should you know the "secret" code to enter into your remote. I did this to my cheesy Oritron (and the site listed hundreds of players from virtually every manufacturer) to play some anime DVDs that weren't available for region 1.

The movie industry is scum, the region codes are nothing more than their way of controlling what comes out where at what time. And to also force people to pay higher prices. A region 5 cd costs 75% less than the same region one dvd (for example).
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!

permalink · 2003-10-16 15:42:59 · Print ·

vic102482
Premium
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Upper Marlboro, MD

said by TexasGuy :
Dish is hacked. Seems that GameCube was resently hacked. Cable modems were hacked.

Believe it or not, there are alot of technologies that arent hacked and have been out for years. Direct TV comes to mind, they havent had any of their P4 cards succesffully hacked in about two years now.

I see what you are saying, but Direct TV should be the one to fear. "Unhackable" technology or technology that takes years to hack looms over the horizon.
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!

permalink · 2003-10-16 15:41:20 · Print ·

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
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·Comcast

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

said by vic102482 :

said by TexasGuy :
Dish is hacked. Seems that GameCube was resently hacked. Cable modems were hacked.
Believe it or not, there are alot of technologies that arent hacked and have been out for years. Direct TV comes to mind, they havent had any of their P4 cards succesffully hacked in about two years now.

I see what you are saying, but Direct TV should be the one to fear. "Unhackable" technology or technology that takes years to hack looms over the horizon.

Isn't direct tv the ones who are a) sueing everybody who bought device from any website they deamed illegal b) Dealing with a guy who stole corporate documents about thier industrial secrets or something like that. and c) illegally taking domians from people they believe to be construde with option a ??

i remember reading about those things on a couple local papers. Do any companies truelly beleive with how technology is prospering that they can secure anything?? Even i know given some motivation anything can be done.. in this case undone ???
--
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permalink · 2003-10-16 16:23:22 · Print ·

vic102482
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Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

said by BosstonesOwn :

said by vic102482 :

said by TexasGuy :
Dish is hacked. Seems that GameCube was resently hacked. Cable modems were hacked.
Believe it or not, there are alot of technologies that arent hacked and have been out for years. Direct TV comes to mind, they havent had any of their P4 cards succesffully hacked in about two years now.

I see what you are saying, but Direct TV should be the one to fear. "Unhackable" technology or technology that takes years to hack looms over the horizon.

Isn't direct tv the ones who are a) sueing everybody who bought device from any website they deamed illegal b) Dealing with a guy who stole corporate documents about thier industrial secrets or something like that. and c) illegally taking domians from people they believe to be construde with option a ??

i remember reading about those things on a couple local papers. Do any companies truelly beleive with how technology is prospering that they can secure anything?? Even i know given some motivation anything can be done.. in this case undone ???

Yeah but those are for the H cards except for the secrets that were leaked, those were for the P4 cards. That happened almost a year ago, and still there is no hack for the P4.
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!

permalink · 2003-10-16 18:28:56 · Print ·

Yowzaaah Ours Go To Eleven join:2000-12-14 DamnFlat, OH clubs:	Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So... The P4 cards haven't been hacked because the H cards are in ready supply, still recognized and easy to work with. When and if DTV makes all H cards dead, P4's will be cracked. -- Don't suspect your friends...Report Them. Brazil (if you haven't seen it, you should)
	permalink · 2003-10-16 22:47:26 ·

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA

·PHONE POWER

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

You mean Hu. H is dead.

P4 will probably never be cracked, because DTV is doing yet another card. Like jackasses they didn't bother to finish the P4 rollout, so they can't disable the Hu stream until they finish rolling out the P5 or whatever it is. I still have my subbed Hu in all 4 of my receivers, and I was supposed to be higher on the rollout list because I have TiVos (need P4 for new software release).

Dumb.

-- Rob

permalink · 2003-10-17 00:19:43 ·

vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

said by djrobx :
You mean Hu. H is dead.

P4 will probably never be cracked, because DTV is doing yet another card. Like jackasses they didn't bother to finish the P4 rollout, so they can't disable the Hu stream until they finish rolling out the P5 or whatever it is. I still have my subbed Hu in all 4 of my receivers, and I was supposed to be higher on the rollout list because I have TiVos (need P4 for new software release).

Dumb.

-- Rob

Yeah sorry about that I meant HU, but yeah they are of course still in the data stream and DTV is doing all P4 rollouts now. They wont even resub a busted HU card if you forget to pay your bill or something. As far as I know they are going to complete the P4 rollout but they are prepping for a p5 and an even newer p6. They are going to be like M$ whenever some hack comes out for the card they are going to have a new one ready and waiting.

The p4 uses 2048 bit encryption between the card and the reciever and I know one group of people were working on finding the crack for it though decrption.....I guess well hear from them in 2020.
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!

permalink · 2003-10-17 07:17:07 · Print ·

petecellar

join:2002-10-15
Philadelphia, PA

analog gap?

One thing that really pushes me over the edge is how they talk about analog copies being such a big problem.
I keep hearing bits and pieces about them trying to plug the analog gap. Sure, all those VHS tapes are really hurting your bottom line, right Valenti?
They're intent on nullifying this "fair use" concept. It's increasingly obvious that they are still intent on eventually making any duplication a crime, and the MPAA are trying to win the appeal they lost on VHS tape machines.

permalink · 2003-10-16 15:24:27 ·

User0101 Premium join:2002-12-12 S-ZZ9-PZA clubs:	That's Right! Once again, somebody hits it exactly how the truth is. MPAA is just looking for retribution and the FCC needs this weeks headlines once again. Somebody is a little scared about their job security me thinks. ItamaeChef
	permalink · 2003-10-16 15:36:35 ·

Sarick
It's Only Logical
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USA

·FrontierNet Intern..

P2P page made me think.

Dear dear what are things coming to.

typos are intentional..

people are upset about the RIAA, if this passes your privacy is going to be NUL-VOID, you can kiss all your MP3's goodbye because the next step it verified rights.

Next they will do something like phony did with phs2s only disk that have phony authorization will run on them. When a new product comes out that defeats it an update would be downloaded and anyone that doesn't accept the update is locked out...

I see OS's being like this in the near future. Not only will hardware be coded this way but software.

A way to force control over all digital rights is what things are coming to.

Your owned hardware is becoming a service charge. I recently wrote a letter to a statalite network about something similar to this. Although they haven't commented on it I feel if they are planning on making the DVR a service I'm getting sick.

Fake Article..

Fish Network imposes interactive video on demand charge for DVR system owners. Fish has decided to add a service tax for subscribers with DVR hardware. DVR is a built in interactive feature separate from basic subscription services that allows a subscriber to pause, fast forward rewind or record live TV.

Although these features are integrated into the receiver and pose no additional cost over NON-DVR Fish subscribers Fish Network has determined a service fee for this hardware feature as necessary to maintain DVR services on consumer owned equipment.

What this amounts to is a service charge for hardware features designed into a consumer owned device. The charge is comparable to a TV manufacturer placing a monthly subscription fee for remote control usage as a service feature incorporated into their product. In this case the cost of hardware has already been accounted for in the initial purchase. The feature Fish network is charging for is maintained by the hardware independently and already owned by the consumer. Normally cost associated with these types of features are unnecessary.

Fish network CEO, Harlie Burgen and co-founder Tim DeFrskco, senior executive vice-president where not immediately available for comment.

//
If this is what companies are planning just think about how other companies could use this.
[text was edited by author 2003-10-16 15:42:12]

permalink · 2003-10-16 15:38:11 · Print ·

Ru4Me @168.190.x.x	Re: P2P page made me think. "I see OS's being like this in the near future. Not only will hardware be coded this way but software. A way to force control over all digital rights is what things are coming to. Your owned hardware is becoming a service charge. " I wholeheartedly agree
	permalink · 2003-10-16 16:50:00 ·

SuperJudge
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One day this won't matter...

...because open source software is becoming more stable, easier to use, and a lot of the people developing it are the same people who are figuring out how to hack these locks.

Either open source OSes will become the main stream, these companies will back off when they start losing business to the majority of the users, or the honest will pay out the ass while we do whatever we want.

The bugs get fixed, the locks get picked, and the people will find a way to get what they want. At whatever cost they choose to achieve it.
--
MediaXPeer

permalink · 2003-10-16 17:52:13 · Print ·

Sarick
It's Only Logical
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Re: One day this won't matter...

Your forgetting, the mainstream is going to stray the direction of big brother.

My little.....

There will come a time when strays of the herd assume great risk. A time where the sheep that stray will be the hunters pray.

END.

The hunters aren't going to be script kiddies they are going to be the combined forces of hardware and software vendors. Alternative solutions may become to expensive to maintain, Laws will change, privacy will be destroyed. Ownership of hardware and software will be created that is control by the designer not the license holder.

This is when the consumer is owned by the company that creates their software / hardware. Owners of these hardwares and softwares will be at the mercy of iunbounding companies that control a large portion of data and hardware in existence.

Examples of this today are large record labels and The RIAA.

Everyone who's read about software piracy and P2P has seen the rights of the artist violated by the distributors.

In the near future I predict we the consumer will be at the mercy of these same powerful entities. The same way artist lose large portions of their royalties. Owners of hardware and software will be limited by it's design.
--
Trouble with spelling.. This browser extension changed my internet life. »www.iespell.com (it's really nice!) -Sarick

permalink · 2003-10-16 18:43:15 · Print ·

SuperJudge
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Re: One day this won't matter...

said by Sarick :
Your forgetting, the mainstream is going to stray the direction of big brother.

My little.....

There will come a time when strays of the herd assume great risk. A time where the sheep that stray will be the hunters pray.

END.

The hunters aren't going to be script kiddies they are going to be the combined forces of hardware and software vendors. Alternative solutions may become to expensive to maintain, Laws will change, privacy will be destroyed. Ownership of hardware and software will be created that is control by the designer not the license holder.

This is when the consumer is owned by the company that creates their software / hardware. Owners of these hardwares and softwares will be at the mercy of iunbounding companies that control a large portion of data and hardware in existence.

Examples of this today are large record labels and The RIAA.

Everyone who's read about software piracy and P2P has seen the rights of the artist violated by the distributors.

In the near future I predict we the consumer will be at the mercy of these same powerful entities. The same way artist lose large portions of their royalties. Owners of hardware and software will be limited by it's design.

So you think we'll all own MACs. The other side of this is a revolution. We'll see what happens, and I hope you're wrong, heh.

--
MediaXPeer

permalink · 2003-10-16 20:12:14 · Print ·

Sarick
It's Only Logical
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Re: One day this won't matter...

said by SuperJudge :
So you think we'll all own MACs. The other side of this is a revolution. We'll see what happens, and I hope you're wrong, heh.

Yea your right. it could go one way or the other. It depends on how the public reacts to privacy and big brother regulation.

If we continue to allow the regulation that voids our rights as consumers then the companies that produce the software/hardware will slowly consume our ability to use technology as a tool. It will become a commodity controlled by them..

If on the other hand, the public gets sick of being taken advantage of and stops feeding the beast that is consuming their rights we might have a good chance. If mainstream Joe Public stands up for his rights with the mighty dollar in masses, willing to alter the products they use and buy. These large companies will feel the hurt and either start listening to Joe Public or be doomed to a horrible death under bankruptcy terms.

The sad thing about this is the average user just don't care. It's obvious if all problems that go unchecked.

I can recall victories in software when the consumer said enough is enough fix it or good bye and actually changes the way a large company sold its software. If you recall the Quicken activation feature that had so many people write in and complain about then you know what I mean.

Sadly this is a RARE condition. Just reading DSL reports main news pages you can clearly see the public outcry sometimes has no effect. In the Quicken situation the consumer won. Now on the opposing side look at the outcry for sitefinder. Even with all the moaning, complaining and threats of lawsuits Versign persist in digging their heels in.

In all assessment we as a consumer are at war and we don't even know it. Sometime in the near future we might look back at these debates and say, I ember when we could download, install listen to etc.

With the way things are going I have a feeling a lot of players in the market are looking forward to this brutal future.

[text was edited by author 2003-10-16 20:54:01]

permalink · 2003-10-16 20:50:25 · Print ·

SuperJudge Magus Premium join:2002-11-14 Albany, GA clubs:	Re: One day this won't matter... It feels like the one ring. I wouldn't want to go near it, but I know I'd be doomed if I didn't try to help. And Gollum would bite my finger off in the end. [text was edited by author 2003-10-16 23:46:47]
	permalink · 2003-10-16 23:46:14 ·

Sarick It's Only Logical Premium join:2003-06-03 USA ·FrontierNet Intern..	Re: One day this won't matter... I'm really upset now. After reading this! »www.againsttcpa.com/what-is-tcpa.html This secures that the TCPA can prevent any unwanted software and hardware. -- Trouble with spelling.. This browser extension changed my internet life. »www.iespell.com (it's really nice!) -Sarick
	permalink · 2003-10-17 00:34:03 ·

KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK	You're more right then you know. Google a search for "Trusted Computing" and read the Future.... and weep.
	permalink · 2003-10-16 23:12:31 ·

Sarick It's Only Logical Premium join:2003-06-03 USA ·FrontierNet Intern..	Re: One day this won't matter... wow, I've never seen this before, sheesh did i hit it on the money or what! I swear I've never read about this before. At least I don't think have. »www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/tcpa-faq.html -- Trouble with spelling.. This browser extension changed my internet life. »www.iespell.com (it's really nice!) -Sarick
	permalink · 2003-10-17 00:18:32 ·

statemachine Premium join:2001-01-21 Si Valley clubs:	Broadcast flag? said by Washington Post: The broadcast flag takes its name from the bit of computer code that would be embedded in digital television signals and would be read by "compliant" devices such as a television set or a digital video recorder. Is this similar to the Evil Bit that must be set when performing network scans for nefarious purposes?
	permalink · 2003-10-16 18:51:50 · Print ·

nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

·Comcast

give 'em a piece of your mind

I did.

Chairman Michael K. Powell: mpowell@fcc.gov
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy: kabernat@fcc.gov
Commissioner Michael J. Copps: mcopps@fcc.gov
Commissioner Kevin J. Martin: kjmweb@fcc.gov
Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein: jadelste@fcc.gov

I asked them why I should pay for the entertainment industry's "piracy protection" - why shouldn't the entertainment industry pay for it?

I told them I didn't like being treated like a criminal, which is what the "broadcast flag" is aimed at.

give them a piece of your mind. But be polite.

permalink · 2003-10-16 20:04:18 · Print ·

b_zen
Premium
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Saint Louis, MO
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·TTNet

Catchy title, too late for one...

I just came back from the FTTH Conference held in New Orleans this past week... DRM was an issue.

My opinion on the matter and what I see on this board is this.
One: Please folks, stop turning every issue discussed by ACME industry into some type of evil witch hunt and the Good of the hackers etc etc etc...

Two: Damn, you still want everything for free, come on now... If you spent half your wit on writing a scenario, giving up the title of your house for a bank loan just so you can launch that first movie, learn 600 pages of script... You may rethink your vision of getting 'EverythingFerFree'.

Three: Sure, for every new ways of protecting a medium, there are 10 ways of going around it...

Four: I'm off to bed
--
Just Be!

permalink · 2003-10-16 20:51:40 · Print ·

KrK
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Re: Catchy title, too late for one...

said by b_zenTwo::
Damn, you still want everything for free, come on now...

Get Real. What I am tired of is taking AWAY of what is legal and acceptable now and turning them into crimes and creating criminals out of ORDINARY behavior.

This broadcast flag will do nothing to deter actual pirates. What it WILL do is take away the ordinary citizen's usage of their TV's and television recording, and turn control of all content usage over to the media moguls and Hollywood. "Fair Use" will be nothing but a vague memory... and the goal of course is simple: pure greed, to extract extra money from consumers by forcing them to pay double, triple, or more times, for the same value they get today.

DRM/Trusted Computing/etc is all total and utter BS in the name of thieving money legally.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

permalink · 2003-10-16 23:18:35 · Print ·

SaBo7Ge

join:2003-03-12
US

Policing America for the "other" criminals

Nobody says stealing is right, but I think its sad to think just because companies are losing money due to their own extortionist pricing structure that our politicians should be willing to pass any restrictive policy to ensure their profits.. No good can come of this and actually if anything at all it will give corporations more incentive to raise prices and make their monopolies even more profound...

I think most of you should check out this site below for an understanding of what similar rules/restrictions could do to hurt open source and other innovations...

»www.againsttcpa.com/

Contact your local congressmen to voice your oppinion against a possible FCC ruling...

permalink · 2003-10-16 23:04:09 · Print ·

Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
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USA

·FrontierNet Intern..

New World Trusted Computing Order

Joe Public can't fight the combined efforts of 200+ Fortune 500s. Joe public's belly is filled from the fat wallets of these COs. It's one thing if it was just MS..

When all these CO's lobby nothing is going to make your senator say no. Money will decide their vote and once that vote is passed there will be no turning back.

Unless people get real smart real fast and see this for what it is we can kiss our beloved computers GOODBYE.

What I see here is like Bible 101, Trusted Computing = New World Computing Order!!

Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft a five headed beast.
--
Trouble with spelling.. This browser extension changed my internet life. »www.iespell.com (it's really nice!) -Sarick

permalink · 2003-10-17 00:43:29 · Print ·

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The meeting to schedule more meetings

Re: The meeting to schedule more meetings

DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

Re: DVD was secure, was hacked. So...

analog gap?

That's Right!

P2P page made me think.

Re: P2P page made me think.

One day this won't matter...

Re: One day this won't matter...

Re: One day this won't matter...

Re: One day this won't matter...

Re: One day this won't matter...

Re: One day this won't matter...

Re: One day this won't matter...

Broadcast flag?

give 'em a piece of your mind

Catchy title, too late for one...

Re: Catchy title, too late for one...

Policing America for the "other" criminals

New World Trusted Computing Order