Billing By the ByteFrom tiers to bandwidth on demand? ( old news - 01:26PM Wednesday Sep 17 2003) tags: prices · bandwidthWith the differences between consumers in terms of bandwidth consumed, the push to bill customers according to how much consumed is now rearing its head in the UK. - When download caps first reared their heads among many broadband providers, responses from consumers fluttered somewhere between disgust and reluctant understanding. Shortly after the idea found acceptance as a common broadband ISP tactic, many ISP execs began wondering if they shouldn't simply bill users depending on how much bandwidth they use. Usually that argument is accompanied by claims that 60-80% of their bandwidth is consumed by a small fraction of their customers. While that debate continues here in the U.S., it's also occurring world-wide, with several providers exploring a multitude of tactics in order to obtain parity between how much they're billing, and how much bandwidth they're dishing out. Australian broadband provider Telstra implemented a download measuring tool in 2002, and charged users for going over the allotted limits for their particular price plan (in turn pitching more expensive plans). Unfortunately that download meter ran into a technical problem late in the year resulting in a billing nightmare. Soon after, Telstra struck a deal exempting downloads from PlanetMirror (Australian File Planet equivalent) from Telstra's download limit, but users were still less than thrilled about the growing trend of having to pay by the byte. U.S. providers have so far stayed away from more draconian restrictions, though attendees at a recent House hearing on the "Regulatory Status of Broadband" all agreed that such limits were acceptable. For the time being however, most ISP's are sticking to speed tiers, sending customers warning letters when they teeter over the line. So far the biggest problem with this approach is some ISP's reluctance to officially document what exactly those limits are. Though metered billing has been debated for some time elsewhere, the BBC indicates it's once again a hot-button issue in the UK. While ISP's in the UK will naturally turn toward tiered services first, some in the industry aren't exactly turned off by a "billing on demand" approach. A user who normally only uses their connection for checking e-mail and finding a good fondu recipe, would be able to access improved speeds for more bandwidth intensive applications when needed; but would see the difference in their monthly bill - much like long-distance charges. Naturally this push is coming predominantly from manufacturers of network monitoring technology, but could the broadband industry someday shift from tiers to metered billing?
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- Cogeco Tells Us They're Working On Meter Problems...
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 moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Who do I send the bill to........ ....when I have to download Microsoft's numerous patches and security updates so I don't get attacked by trojans and virii sent out by other users.
Also, how do I bill a website when it tries to open a pop-up window that uses my bandwith?
Answer those questions and we'll see if billing by the byte works. | |
|  | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by moonpuppy  :
....when I have to download Microsoft's numerous patches and security updates so I don't get attacked by trojans and virii sent out by other users.
You don't have to use Windows XP. You (would hypothetically) pay for bandwidth, if you needed that for Windows updates that is your problem, not the ISPs.
quote:
Also, how do I bill a website when it tries to open a pop-up window that uses my bandwith?
Why would you do that? You chose to visit their website, if they want to include a pop-up that is their business. You going to bill them for using extra graphics as well?
Besides, how much bandwidth could the pop-ups really use, especially if you had a blocker? Would it even be remotely material?
quote:
Answer those questions and we'll see if billing by the byte works.
Note I do not support billing by the byte, but your objections don't seem to hold much water.
Similar objections could have been made when dial-up ISPs charged by the minute, but that did not stop them. | |
| | | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ -----------------------------------------------------------
Similar objections could have been made when dial-up ISPs charged by the minute, but that did not stop them.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Don't see too many dial up ISP's nowadays still charging by the minute. Most are a flat fee.
They learned their lesson. Broadband p;roviders will potentially learn the same lesson if they do bill by the byte. | |
| | | | 
ikarus1
Premium
join:2002-10-23
Urbanna, VA
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by apollo80 :
-----------------------------------------------------------
Similar objections could have been made when dial-up ISPs charged by the minute, but that did not stop them.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Don't see too many dial up ISP's nowadays still charging by the minute. Most are a flat fee.
They learned their lesson. Broadband p;roviders will potentially learn the same lesson if they do bill by the byte.
Did you EVER see ISP's charging by the byte? DUH!, NO! You never saw ISP's charging by the byte. Had ISP's had the comptence in the beginning (most are only now LEARNING how to do this) that is what you would have seen from the beginning.
AS AN ISP, a long term ISP... My thinking was ALWAYS that charging by the minute of connection time, or the byte of data was the MOST fair type of billing. When I set up my first personal ISP, I set up billing in that manner. If someone only connected to me for ten minutes of an evening, why should I bill them the same amount as the idiot with a redialer? It worked, actually it worked so well that my nearest competitor cracked my system and modified my billing software, not once but twice... While he had ALL his customers paying $23.95 per month for dialup, some of mine paid about $7.00 per month, others paid as much as $20.00 per month. BUT, EVERYONE PAID FOR THE SYSTEM RESOURCES THEY USED... It was fair.
Well, whatever... I was ahead of my time. This *ABSOLUTELY WILL* eventually come to everyone because of market pressures. If I (as an ISP) want market share, and I want to extract from my existing system maximum profit, I am going to set up such a system. Why? Well because the other guy is going to do it if I don't, and if I do it first, he will do it after I do so he can stay in business.
Honestly there are people who should be sold DLS at $5.00 per month, and there are others who should have to pay $50.00 per month for dialup.
It isn't so much how fast your connection is as it is how much you use when you are online... For the first two years my current employer was in business, he had one dialup user who used AS MUCH BANDWIDTH as ALL THE OTHER USERS ON HIS SYSTEM COMBINED... That situation remained until he broke 400 users... She was online 24x7 and she was streaming audio 24x7...
So... unless you know whereof you speak... learn something and come back. I don't bother wasting my time with the clueless, especially in hurricanes.
-m-
--
FAVORITE ANSWERED QUESIONQ: I want to add an antenna to my wireless device, any suggestions?A: »www.freeantennas.com | |
| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ I have not seen an ISP charge per byte. I have seen services charge per minute.
The problem with charging per minute, is that it was done before and people didn't like it. Compuserve anyone? Not only did they charge per minute for regular connections, they charged extra for "special" services. They even had day and night rates and higher rates for faster modems (300, 1200 and 2400 baud rates.)
Now for a dial up, most people don't stay on for that long as they only do email and mild surfing.
Broadband is a different story. People expect speed and a lot of bandwith to download stuff. They pay about the same amount as a second phone line and monthly subscription to most dial up ISP's. That is a selling point. That is one of the reasons I got it.
Now, I will agree that some people should only pay $5/month for broadband since they use it rarely. However, most of these people would stay with dial up and have no reason to go to broadband.
Now, lets go over what are the selling point of broadband:
1) Speed
2) Content (especially streaming audio and video)
3) Cost (when compared to a second phone line and ISP subscription)
4) Always on
Numbers 1 and 4 are not really relavent to this discussion. However, #2 and #3 are. If I see a flashy commercial saying I can stream cool video and audio from the net, I would hate to find out that it would cost me a few pennys per MB to see it. If I want to listen to an out of town baseball game on streaming audio from a radio station, should I get out my credit card? I can see the people looking for alternatives now or dropping broadband all together. You think a lot of people will keep broadband if it starts costing more than $50/month? The trend is to pull prices down, not up.
Do I deny there are some that use a lot? Nope, nature of the beast. If someone is way over a KNOWN limit, then you should address that. Think of the words of Henry Ford, "The man who uses his skill and constructive imagination to see how much he can give for a dollar instead of how little he can give for a dollar is bound to succeed."
said by joebear29 :
You don't have to use Windows XP. You (would hypothetically) pay for bandwidth, if you needed that for Windows updates that is your problem, not the ISPs.
Oddly enough, I still use 98 but still have to download security updates. And unless the ISP's don't mind my system being used for DNS attacks, I think they would want me to download the updates (even with a firewall.) Remember, Joe Email and Suzy Spreadsheet don't know much about system security. And, not everyone has the time nor ability to configure a Linux system and many people don't want to buy Macs. Plus, with Linux, you get to download all those add ons online too.
said by joebear29 :
Why would you do that? You chose to visit their website, if they want to include a pop-up that is their business. You going to bill them for using extra graphics as well?
Besides, how much bandwidth could the pop-ups really use, especially if you had a blocker? Would it even be remotely material?
Depends, some pop-ups are simple and small but what happens in the future when someone gets the bright idea to make pop-ups a full blown Flash extravaganza. And, I have yet to see ANY site advertise the fact they have pop-ups for your pleasure.
What if I want to go to a site to research a product I want to buy? Maybe we need to get warning labels on websites that have large amounts of graphics so we can choose or not to choose to visit them.
said by JTRockville :
Are there blockers available that don't download the ad first, before blocking it from being displayed?
If not, perhaps we'll need a "DoNotPop.gov" registry for IP ranges.
Not sure on this one.
Donotpop.gov list? Hmmm, potential in that idea.  | |
| | | | | |
ikarus1
Premium
join:2002-10-23
Urbanna, VA
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ > I still use 98 but still have to download security >updates.
Oddly enough... there are alternatives... I could care if you need to download a security patch every day... as an ISP I am going to charge you per byte on the patch BECAUSE you run a sub-standard OS...
NOW you are going to remind me that Win2K shipped a week before MS issued a 20Meg patch, and you are going to remind me that XP shipped a week before a 20 Meg patch...
and I am going to say TOUCH SH1T....
AM I SUPPOSED TO CARE THAT YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT REALITY?
-m-
--
FAVORITE ANSWERED QUESIONQ: I want to add an antenna to my wireless device, any suggestions?A: »www.freeantennas.com | |
| | | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by ikarus1 :
> I still use 98 but still have to download security >updates.
Oddly enough... there are alternatives... I could care if you need to download a security patch every day... as an ISP I am going to charge you per byte on the patch BECAUSE you run a sub-standard OS...
NOW you are going to remind me that Win2K shipped a week before MS issued a 20Meg patch, and you are going to remind me that XP shipped a week before a 20 Meg patch...
and I am going to say TOUCH SH1T....
AM I SUPPOSED TO CARE THAT YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT REALITY?
-m-
Tell me a good OS then. Linux? HA, still need to get patches for that. Mac OSX? Please. Every single OS has it's problems and vunerabilities.
So you are going to tell people if you run a certain OS, you will pay more? What type of BS is that? And, as an ISP, you might have that many customers tolerant of your policies and soon you'll be left with few customers.
My guess is that you have issues with MS but unfortunatly for you (and some others), it is the most popular OS. WELCOME TO REALITY! | |
| | | | | UCT_Slash
join:2001-09-14
Marietta, NY
| said by ikarus1 :
said by apollo80 :
-----------------------------------------------------------
Similar objections could have been made when dial-up ISPs charged by the minute, but that did not stop them.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Don't see too many dial up ISP's nowadays still charging by the minute. Most are a flat fee.
They learned their lesson. Broadband p;roviders will potentially learn the same lesson if they do bill by the byte.
Did you EVER see ISP's charging by the byte? DUH!, NO! You never saw ISP's charging by the byte. Had ISP's had the comptence in the beginning (most are only now LEARNING how to do this) that is what you would have seen from the beginning.
AS AN ISP, a long term ISP... My thinking was ALWAYS that charging by the minute of connection time, or the byte of data was the MOST fair type of billing. When I set up my first personal ISP, I set up billing in that manner. If someone only connected to me for ten minutes of an evening, why should I bill them the same amount as the idiot with a redialer? It worked, actually it worked so well that my nearest competitor cracked my system and modified my billing software, not once but twice... While he had ALL his customers paying $23.95 per month for dialup, some of mine paid about $7.00 per month, others paid as much as $20.00 per month. BUT, EVERYONE PAID FOR THE SYSTEM RESOURCES THEY USED... It was fair.
Well, whatever... I was ahead of my time. This *ABSOLUTELY WILL* eventually come to everyone because of market pressures. If I (as an ISP) want market share, and I want to extract from my existing system maximum profit, I am going to set up such a system. Why? Well because the other guy is going to do it if I don't, and if I do it first, he will do it after I do so he can stay in business.
Honestly there are people who should be sold DLS at $5.00 per month, and there are others who should have to pay $50.00 per month for dialup.
It isn't so much how fast your connection is as it is how much you use when you are online... For the first two years my current employer was in business, he had one dialup user who used AS MUCH BANDWIDTH as ALL THE OTHER USERS ON HIS SYSTEM COMBINED... That situation remained until he broke 400 users... She was online 24x7 and she was streaming audio 24x7...
So... unless you know whereof you speak... learn something and come back. I don't bother wasting my time with the clueless, especially in hurricanes.
-m-
For starters why the hell are you referencing dial-up users? They don't download a fraction of what dsl/cable users do so this hardly effects them. And who's going to subscribe to your "hypothetical charge-by-bandwidth ISP" if/when an alternative flat rate ISP exists in the area? Clearly not people who plan on using their connection for downloading media in any way... which make up the majority. Try pushing this bs on consumers used to paying $35-40/m for unlimited broadband.
| |
| | | | | 
latez
join:2002-01-07
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
|
Did you EVER see ISP's charging by the byte? DUH!, NO! You never saw ISP's charging by the byte. Had ISP's had the comptence in the beginning (most are only now LEARNING how to do this) that is what you would have seen from the beginning.
That kind of attitude is what stunted the growth of the internet in the first place, universal access should be just that universal access, flat fee pricing is a wonderful thing. While your neighbor may go online strictly for checking his e-mail and grabbing the latest recipe, you may go one for hours watching music video's and downloading the latest matrix trailer, no one prevents your neighbor for using his bandwidth he just doesnt have a use for it, if he didnt need that sort of bandwidth in the first place he should have stuck with dialup and not be paying the 40 or 50 bucks a month he's paying now, no one twisted his arm, but since he decided to contribute to a DSL system he's also helping pay for the rest of the services that the ISP is providing, there isnt anything unfair about that.
AS AN ISP, a long term ISP... My thinking was ALWAYS that charging by the minute of connection time, or the byte of data was the MOST fair type of billing. When I set up my first personal ISP, I set up billing in that manner. If someone only connected to me for ten minutes of an evening, why should I bill them the same amount as the idiot with a redialer? It worked, actually it worked so well that my nearest competitor cracked my system and modified my billing software, not once but twice... While he had ALL his customers paying $23.95 per month for dialup, some of mine paid about $7.00 per month, others paid as much as $20.00 per month. BUT, EVERYONE PAID FOR THE SYSTEM RESOURCES THEY USED... It was fair.
Your thinking is flawed. With broadband pricing per byte is going to be a disaster. Why should we all have to switch to by the byte billing when we have unlimited right now? Who is it exactly thats complaining about this sort of pricing scheme? The ISP? well then dont offer services at all, i promise you that if/when cable starts to switch to a by the byte pricing scheme DSL will become the clear winner of the broadband war. The same can be seen with alot of things, unlimited is king. I live in NYC and I am forced to take the train quote often so every month I buy an unlimited monthly metro card, though I may not use it to its fullest potential all the time it still makes sense for me to get it because I can when I want too. People like having the option of unlimited use, give the option to the user and ask them how they would feel.. I am real glad that I was never a subscriber to your isp. When you start charging each user by the time they are connected or how much they've been using it, they're usage of the internet drops therefor certain daily activities that they would usually do like spend hours looking through amazon catalogs of music or buy.com's electronics would most likely be curtailed for fear of a larger bill.. I can see alot of things that metered broadband usage billing would curtail.
Well, whatever... I was ahead of my time. This *ABSOLUTELY WILL* eventually come to everyone because of market pressures. If I (as an ISP) want market share, and I want to extract from my existing system maximum profit, I am going to set up such a system. Why? Well because the other guy is going to do it if I don't, and if I do it first, he will do it after I do so he can stay in business.
Ahead of your time? You mean you where trapped in a timewarp... the first usage of the internet was metered.. when we where all zipping around on our 9600 baud rate modems, and eventually one smart man came up with a flat fee unmetered usage. And NO this WONT eventually happen simply because of options. If my cable provider OOL decides to start charging me on a metered scale then I will simply switch to verizon dsl or some other dsl provider who wont charge me those kind of rates, and if you believe that DSL will switch over to metered usage its hard for me to believe that every DSL provider in new york will switch over to that. What market pressures..?? where is this push to switch to metered usage.. this is a AU and UK thing, apparently they enjoy limited their citizen's access to the internet.
Honestly there are people who should be sold DLS at $5.00 per month, and there are others who should have to pay $50.00 per month for dialup.
Its just fine the way it is now If you want to pay 5.00$ for your internet connection go grab a real cheap dialup.. i think 5.00 is a little low but i've seen some for 7 bucks somewhere.. Whats the point of a broadband provider to wire you up when they're going to be making 5.00$ off of you? just stick with dialup, when your internet usage becomes so dire as to need DSL then anti up and pay the 50 bucks and quit WHINING.
It isn't so much how fast your connection is as it is how much you use when you are online... For the first two years my current employer was in business, he had one dialup user who used AS MUCH BANDWIDTH as ALL THE OTHER USERS ON HIS SYSTEM COMBINED... That situation remained until he broke 400 users... She was online 24x7 and she was streaming audio 24x7...
I thought you ran an ISP, now you have an employer? which is it... That one dialup user had the absolute right to use her dialup any goddamn way she pleased because she was paying a flat rate to have UNLIMITED USAGE. Get it through your head, Unlimited is always better then metered.
So... unless you know whereof you speak... learn something and come back. I don't bother wasting my time with the clueless, especially in hurricanes.
Listen do me a favor... before you act like a pretencious know it all waste that you are try and consider the users on this board who I wouldnt neccessarily call light bandwidth users and what kind of prices they would be paying if the broadband industry suddenly decided to go in the backwards direction and start asking for metered fee's... BUY yourself a clue. then stop with your annoying rants.
--
“The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity — the rest is overhead for the operating system.” —Nicholas Ambrose | |
| | | | | | Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
 ·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by latez :
Listen do me a favor... before you act like a pretencious know it all waste that you are try and consider the users on this board who I wouldnt neccessarily call light bandwidth users and what kind of prices they would be paying if the broadband industry suddenly decided to go in the backwards direction and start asking for metered fee's... BUY yourself a clue. then stop with your annoying rants.
While I agree with your post in theory, you really come across as simply having a vested interest in maintaining the status quo from this last part you posted.
I'm not going to call you a bandwidth hog, or any crap like that. However, calling someone else's arguments wrong just because if their arguments were accepted, you'd have to pay more for what you're sucking down.
Basically what I'm saying is, try to sound impartial, and not like a crackwhore desperate to keep her next fix lined up. | |
| | | | | | 
andy b
@co.uk
| What market pressures..?? where is this push to switch to metered usage.. this is a AU and UK thing, apparently they enjoy limited their citizen's access to the internet.
---------------
Erm, no. Metered access (in the UK) was the norm till 4 or 5 years ago. Now it's very rare, and only on offer to those who want it (very light users). The rest of us, are all on unmetered access. | |
| | | | | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by JTRockville :
said by joebear29 :
Besides, how much bandwidth could the pop-ups really use, especially if you had a blocker? Would it even be remotely material?
Are there blockers available that don't download the ad first, before blocking it from being displayed?
If not, perhaps we'll need a "DoNotPop.gov" registry for IP ranges.
Well, you're probably right, still, if you get visit www.worthlesssite.com and it pops up an ad, that ad is part of visiting the site, just like the overly large jpg of its logo and the cheesy midi music attempts to play in the background. | |
| | | | | 
JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ Not all sites that jam stuff down your pipe when you hit them, are worthless. Many newspapers do it, for example.
I wonder how the ecommerce community feels about such limits?
[text was edited by author 2003-09-17 17:05:37] | |
| | | | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by JTRockville :
Not all sites that jam stuff down your pipe when you hit them, are worthless. Many newspapers do it, for example.
I wonder how the ecommerce community feels about such limits?
[text was edited by author 2003-09-17 17:05:37]
Sorry, I should have used www.anysite.com. Of course all sites that use pop-ups aren't worthless. | |
| | | | 
maartena
Nice'n Round.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ How about this?
You get a broadbandconnection for a pricecut of $20 ($30 instead of $50 a months) which includes a *FREE* 2 gbyte data transfer for patches, security updates, spam, virii, trojans, popups, lost packets, broken downloads and all other grief you really don't want to pay for. 2 gbyte should be more then plenty for all of that.
Then, on top of that you will be billed $1 for every gigabyte used. If you are downloading less then 22 gbyte a month your broadband bill will actually be cheaper then what you used to pay. If you download more then 22 gbyte then your bill will be higher.
Would such a thing work?
--
»www.deanforamerica.com - You have the power to make a change! Support Howard Dean 2004 | |
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by maartena :
How about this?
You get a broadbandconnection for a pricecut of $20 ($30 instead of $50 a months) which includes a *FREE* 2 gbyte data transfer for patches, security updates, spam, virii, trojans, popups, lost packets, broken downloads and all other grief you really don't want to pay for. 2 gbyte should be more then plenty for all of that.
Then, on top of that you will be billed $1 for every gigabyte used. If you are downloading less then 22 gbyte a month your broadband bill will actually be cheaper then what you used to pay. If you download more then 22 gbyte then your bill will be higher.
Would such a thing work?
Depends on if the ISP can tell the difference. Unless they give you that as a free 2GB for anything or just for patches and virus updates.
Heck, killing spam would save on bandwith. | |
| | | Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
| said by maartena :
How about this?
You get a broadbandconnection for a pricecut of $20 ($30 instead of $50 a months) which includes a *FREE* 2 gbyte data transfer for patches, security updates, spam, virii, trojans, popups, lost packets, broken downloads and all other grief you really don't want to pay for. 2 gbyte should be more then plenty for all of that.
Then, on top of that you will be billed $1 for every gigabyte used. If you are downloading less then 22 gbyte a month your broadband bill will actually be cheaper then what you used to pay. If you download more then 22 gbyte then your bill will be higher.
Would such a thing work?
It's a nice start, but how about instead of $1 a gig you charge something more reasonable? I'm thinking a fraction of that would be sufficient, probably 20¢ or so. That would put 50 gigs at about $30 a month including your line fee. Personally I think the line fee should possibly just be a little bit more and the bandwidth much less. Maybe $30 for the line and 10-25¢ for the gig, even possibly staggered in costs with a higher charge for use during peak time (6-10pm) and all the heavy downloaders can download all night for 10¢ a gig.
Bandwidth is WAY overpriced. It's either used, or it's wasted. I'd rather see it used. | |
| |
latez
join:2002-01-07
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| But I'am not impartial.. I'am not your typical web surfer, I depend on my cable modem for heavy usage.. and before you jump on the YOUR A P2P USER ARENT YOU argument with me, I dont use p2p at all.. But maintaining a Citrix connection to work for weeks at a time is pretty bandwidth consuming.. Maintaining several hundred websites is pretty bandwidth consuming... Enjoying a video webcast of paul van dyk's last set at the Soundgarden while uploading my newest mix to my website is pretty bandwidth consuming also.. for someone to suggest to me that its wrong for me to pay a flat fee is ludacris.. and what of him supposedly running an isp to post that its better that we pay per usage.. you think he's being totally impartial here?
--
“The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity — the rest is overhead for the operating system.” —Nicholas Ambrose | |
| | | Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Who do I send the bill to........ said by latez :
But I'am not impartial.. I'am not your typical web surfer, I depend on my cable modem for heavy usage.. and before you jump on the YOUR A P2P USER ARENT YOU argument with me, I dont use p2p at all.. But maintaining a Citrix connection to work for weeks at a time is pretty bandwidth consuming.. Maintaining several hundred websites is pretty bandwidth consuming... Enjoying a video webcast of paul van dyk's last set at the Soundgarden while uploading my newest mix to my website is pretty bandwidth consuming also.. for someone to suggest to me that its wrong for me to pay a flat fee is ludacris.. and what of him supposedly running an isp to post that its better that we pay per usage.. you think he's being totally impartial here?
No need to sink to someone else's level, that's falling into a troll's trap. Anyway, though, I wouldn't bring up P2P myself, I know people like to use their connections, but to say that everyone else should be forced to cover your usage is only acceptable if everyone else decides it is, and that may not always be the case. Also, from your description of your usage, it sounds like you're probably already breaking your ISP's terms of usage, which means we're talking about two issues: firstly, your problem with being required to pay more if you use more, and secondly, the circumstances you mentioned seem to suggest you're using your residential broadband connection as a business tool, which is a major no-no with most residential broadband.
However, all of that aside, the point is, if you want to be taken seriously, try to make a serious argument, and not fall into troll traps. Yes, I know the guy you responded to wasn't being reasonable in your sight, but that doesn't mean you should flame him and lower yourself. | |
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latez
join:2002-01-07
Brooklyn, NY
clubs: | Which part exactly is me violating the user agreement? | |
| rtw03
join:2002-11-10
Saint Paul, MN | Stupid This whole idea is just stupid. The cost for the ISP to move that data is minimal, because they also are just paying for the pipe, not the byte. Why would a company that benefits from the growth of the internet want to slow that growth? | |
| | 
trisomy
Premium
join:2002-05-23
Houston, TX
·Comcast
| Re: Stupid said by rtw03 :
This whole idea is just stupid. The cost for the ISP to move that data is minimal, because they also are just paying for the pipe, not the byte.
rt, do me a favor if you would. Please send me the schematic for your WAN hub. Mine is all cluttered with Switches, Hubs, Router's (both on ramp=to the network and off ramp=to the net), Firewalls, Web, News, DNS, Mail and Stats Servers (to monitor traffic) plus pesky engineers and support people. Yours is obviously far more simplistic and I could use your help! Thanks, just send it to stupidC/O@dslreports.com (this may not be the proper addressing scheme however I'm sure you'll figure it out). | |
| | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | Re: Stupid Excellent Post! | |
| |
ikarus1
Premium
join:2002-10-23
Urbanna, VA
| said by rtw03 :
This whole idea is just stupid. The cost for the ISP to move that data is minimal, because they also are just paying for the pipe, not the byte. Why would a company that benefits from the growth of the internet want to slow that growth?
DUH... Hello???
They don't want to slow the growth. They want to charge a fair rate to everyone...
Do you pay for electricity by the KiloWatt/Hour or do you pay a flat rate every month? Hmmmm.... Personally, I believe you should be billed an average or what everyone in your zip code uses... That way, I (with some 2 KWH x 24 x 7 x 365) won't pay 1/10 as much as I have to today... Hell, I'll move to your zip code if they implement that for power.
PLEASE....
-m-
--
FAVORITE ANSWERED QUESIONQ: I want to add an antenna to my wireless device, any suggestions?A: »www.freeantennas.com | |
| | | 
aSic
application specific
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
clubs:
| Re: Stupid said by ikarus1 :
Do you pay for electricity by the KiloWatt/Hour or do you pay a flat rate every month?
I pay a flat rate every month. Mostly $0. Why? Solar electricity my friend.
heh..sorry. I had to burst somebodys bubble this morning. :\
--
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say. | irc.fj33r.com #dslr | |
| | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Actually, my ISP buys metered service from both ELI and Verio. They have a DS3 to each of them with a 3 megabit minimum and $250.00 a megabit after that. There are opportunities to buy 45megabits, 100 megabits, 1000 megabits, but the cost is usually prohibitive for the smaller ISP's.
It comes down to market niche. You can have a big crappy ISP like AOL, MSN, Comcast, etc... and go the cheap route. Or you can pay a bit more, pay for metered service, and have an ISP that has a clue.
Your choice. | |
| kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:
| Alright......... Then charge us fairly for it. Many months ago it was reported that my old RoadRunner's bandwidth costs broke down to a nickel a gig, and that included routing and pipe charges. A dime, or even 20 cents per gig charged to the customer would seem fair ($10~20 per 100gig monthly).
I imagine that BT or whatever UK ISP is pushing this have similar bandwidth costs. If they don't, then then they should get out of the internet business now. It is a flawed business model destined for failure. | |
| | macmouse
Premium
join:2002-05-30
Saratoga, CA
| Re: Alright......... Thats right. Although its fun getting a free-ride, it really is the way it should be.
It will *only* work however when the prices are reasonable (as you have said). If done properly - this could be a big boom for broadband! Think about it -Now Granny can surf the net and only pay 10 bucks (or less) for broadband instead of $20+ whatever for dial-up. She has very limited usage, so she should pay "next to nothing" which would then be in direct competition with dial-up...
The only problem is, of course, they will *want* to charge ridiculous rates.
I recall seeing some over-charge limits in the past at like $10+ a gig! Thats highway robbery! I can get web hosting at $1 an gig transfer, which is on an fully redundant network with server clusters! If you pay for an monthly package, you can get even less...
I'd would also of course expect the quality to increase significantly. There certainly would be motivation for the ISP's to allow everyone to get top (throughput) speeds, instead of now where "you should be happy to get 1MB from an 1.5 line). Heck - They should be motivated to just remove caps entirely! Download at 10MB a sec and upload 1MB!
Now you can get the speed you want, when you need it, without paying through the noose for an fat pipe. Certainly would be nice to download the new linux ISO's. The speed is needed/wanted, but only for an short period of time.
Also, they would also have no reason to remove the "no servers" restriction, because we're paying for it!
They can still have an higher "price" on uploading.
Using your numbers.. 5 cents for download/gig and 20 cents for upload. I can live with that  .
Now "bandwidth hogs" will be treasured customers to please, not an scourge to be irradiated.
Once again though - this will *only* work if things are pricing is fair. If it is, then everything could come out as a whole lot better. | |
| | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: Alright......... said by macmouse :
Thats right. Although its fun getting a free-ride, it really is the way it should be.
It will *only* work however when the prices are reasonable (as you have said). If done properly - this could be a big boom for broadband! Think about it -Now Granny can surf the net and only pay 10 bucks (or less) for broadband instead of $20+ whatever for dial-up. She has very limited usage, so she should pay "next to nothing" which would then be in direct competition with dial-up...
I think you are forgetting about the fixed cost. What they are, I dunno, but I suspect they are signifigant. | |
| | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
|
I was at the secret ISP price gouging meeting last night, and we all came to agreement to keep our overage charging at the MAX! By colluding, we will be able to maximize our profits, squelch the growth of the internet, and alienate our client base.
I can't believe nobody thought of this collusion thingy before. We're brilliant! He He He He He..... | |
| | | | SaBo7Ge
join:2003-03-12
US
| Re: Alright......... said by sherpaboy :
I was at the secret ISP price gouging meeting last night, and we all came to agreement to keep our overage charging at the MAX! By colluding, we will be able to maximize our profits, squelch the growth of the internet, and alienate our client base.
I can't believe nobody thought of this collusion thingy before. We're brilliant! He He He He He.....
said by SaBo7Ge :
I read all this posting about users who can d/l 60gigs for $45/mo and laugh hysterically.. If there's any injustice taking place right now it's in Anchorage,Alaska (the largest urban population base in the state) where GCI has a stranglehold on highspeed internet as the only Cable ISP..
»www.gci.com/promos/hypernet/hype···yhn6.htm
You think you've got it bad read below
384/64K with 5 GB of data transfer per month.
Connect unlimited computers to the same modem.
Connect up to 8 computers to the same modem.
Unlimited 24-hour/7-days-a-week live technical support.
GCI cable modem.
5MB Personal web space.
$39.99 a month with GCI Long Distance
Want Even More Speed?
Here are some other cable modem packages to choose from with your GCI Long Distance plan:
Silver Plus 1.0M/128K with 10 gigabytes transfer/month: $49.99/month
Gold 1.5M/128K with 20 gigabytes transfer/month: $84.99/month
Platinum 1.5M/256K with 25 gigabytes transfer/month: $99.99/month
Diamond 2.4M/256K with 30 gigabytes transfer/month: $149.99/month
Subscription to Cable TV or $6.99 monthly access fee required.
Additional data transfer beyond package amount is $20/GB/month.
Activation fee of $99.99 is waived during this special promotion if you are a new GCI Hypernet Customer
you do not have GCI Long Distance the following Cable Modem rates apply: (If you Choose GCI Long Distance, you'll save $15/month!)
Service Offerings Monthly Fee
Silver 384/64K with 5 gigabytes of throughput per month
$54.99/month
Silver Plus 1.0M/128K with 10 gigabytes of throughput per month
$64.99/month
Gold 1.5M/128K with 20 gigabytes of throughput per month
$99.99/month
Platinum 1.5M/256K with 25 gigabytes of throughput per month
$114.99/month
Diamond 2.4M/256K with 30 gigabytes of throughput per month
$164.99/month
I'd love for another cable company to set up shop and compete up here because unfortunately ACS isn't really expanding they're DSL service so that people can get fast speeds... It's ashame most of you don't really know what broadband hell is until you live someplace like Anchorage, Alaska
I think some of the GCI execs must have been present at that meeting too...  | |
| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by macmouse :
It will *only* work however when the prices are reasonable (as you have said).
exactly. And from what I have read, none of the big players that are thinking of this are thinking fairly. They will mildly rip off the low level users and ream the heavy users.
They could give a crap about fair, they are only thinking of how to get more money out of everybody. | |
| | | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | Re: Alright......... Please define fair in the business world.
Would that be defined as setting your price so low that your shareholders who have your stock in their IRA get reamed when your company goes bankrupt? | |
| | | 
Pz_
join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN
clubs:
| not both If 60-80% of the bandwidth is used by a small fraction, then why would they want to bill by the byte? If they are charging for usage, then they cannot continue to bill for the flat amount they currently are, plus byte rates. So if they want to charge me for large downloads, then my monthly bill needs to be less. A lot less.
So I would guess that they would lose money on this deal since more people would be paying less. If in fact, the "bandwidth hogs" are costing them as much as they say. My guess is Comcast (for example) would keep my bill the same as it is, offer me some sort of free amount per month a la giganews, then charge me per byte over that. | |
| | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Re: not both I don't think they'd ever do that. If they do what Sympatico did(and then stopped doing because everyone left), they will keep the price the same, and charge $8.00 per gig(WTF!). | |
| | | 
tmccann11
Who, Me?
Premium
join:2001-06-10
Bayonne, NJ
clubs: | Lower Rates If they adopted this policy, I wonder if my OOL bill would be under 50 bucks. Highly doubtful. They'll probably charge a standard rate for say about 15 gigs a month, and then charge per Mb after. I wonder.
Tom | |
| lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | I see many things, I see plans within plans Maybe this will stop the spam coming from .AU
But then again it is probably some MBA trying to make a name. None the less, this would never fly in a competitive market place. | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
alfnoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-18
| Byte caps flat rate or by the Byte? If it comes down to the difference between these two I think that providers would be wise to present an affordable by the byte rate. It presents a better value to the mind of the consumer.
People mad at byte caps feel like they are paying and have Speed Caps so why are they limited to number of bytes?
Well by the byte would make more sense as you are getting everything you pay for that way.
It MUST be affordable though.
Like someone before me here said if cost is .05/Gig of traffic I personally wouldn't mind if they charged me six times that rate or $30/100Gigs of traffic each month.
Speeds to go along with this mess are a whole other story.
peace | |
| |
See 8 replies to this post | |
Speedy8
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
clubs: | AOL It's like we are going back in time to the AOL "pay by the hour" pricing scheme, since in essence you are paying for time downloading. | |
| | 
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
|  Billing By The Byte Works For Me!
I don't want to make it too long...
So, I like the Billing By The Byte scheme; why? You may ask...
As a company, I would offer true broadband (10Mbps, asym. or sym.) with a flat "access" fee per month, say $19.95, then offer speed throttle options with corresponding per speed or per gig fees. Whichever way you look at it, if you have faster bandwidth, you will download "faster" (in theory), so as a user, I can have my basic 700+Kbps, and only pay when i want to get in the two digits speed (i.e. watch an mpeg4 streaming movie) or so on....
What do you guys think? | |
| | | | achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| A lot of companies pay for major access pipes this way. It's called burstable service.
They pay a flat monthly fee for a specific speed (say, 1MBps), but have to option to go higher (if the pipe allows) for an extra fee.
--
Playing the Tuba isn't an art, it's an adventure! http://www.lakesidepride.org | |
| | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| OK, fine. As an ISP I will only purchase a minimum amount of upstream capacity from a third rate carrier on a non-redundant pipe. If you want to burst up to a speed that requires more upstream than my ISP currently has, call me a month ahead of schedule so that I can get my upstream provider to increase the size of the pipe to that you can burst up to a higher speed.
Oh, and by the way... I'll be passing along the bill for the upgrade on to you (because why should the other customer's have to pay for an upgrade that only you needed). I'll also be passing you a bill for my time. But don't worry, I'm only earning $20.00 an hour.
Oh,and one more thing... can you let me know when you are done needing that extra bandwidth? I wanna let my carrier know that then can now downgrade the pipe.
Thanks. | |
| 
Ewalking
join:2002-11-14
not saying
| ISP's think they can act like phone companies.. Its no big suprise that Bell Canada was the first to try and charge by the byte. Unfortunately for them they didint realize that they don't have the same monopoly over internet as they do the phone system.. Bell lost a ton of customers/respect and gave up in under a year.. Many other ISP's were thinking about this idea also but once Bell stoped the fee any other ISP begining to charge extra $$ would end up regretting it..
Internet by the byte is a joke like long distance.. The only reason there is such thing as long distance is because as long as the phone system has been around they have had such stupid charges to get extra $$$... Thank god for the dotcom boom, if it wasin't for that all ISP's would have brainwashed the average joe shmoe sucker into thinking "pay by the byte" is justified.. | |
| | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | Re: ISP's think they can act like phone companies.
My ISP has been billing by the byte since 1996! And still does thank god! | |
| | | 
Penguins
Have You Played Atari Today?
join:2001-12-01
Cleveland, OH | Re: ISP's think they can act like phone companies. Who is your isp, and are you a owner/employee of sed isp?
--
Pure magic in 2k of 6502. | |
| russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
|  Death of broadband predicted, no stream at 11
| |
| |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
| Re: Death of broadband predicted, no stream at 11 I disagree...
With up-front rates, you'd know exactly how much you'd be charged before ordering.
The main difference in your Telco's analogies in relation to getting knocked out by the monthly bill, is that broadband allows you to check how much one thing costs you in real-time. So you always have the option to order or not.
A low "broadband" or higher speed connection as a basic service + the option to go higher only when I choose to, would make me feel very comfortable because I'd be in control.
Also, how much of your current 1.5Mbps or 3Mbps do you actually use per month? Simply put, there are not many online services (i.e. DVD quality video streaming, 24-bit DVD audio, Virtual Reality based services and more) available currently that would use up your bandwidth. Furthermore, as a typical user, you are being pinned down by rigorous TOS' designed to prevent a few heavy loaders from going "overboard", it (TOS) is a preemptive action and we *ALL* end up paying for it.
As a "metered" option, a user will pay a primary connection fee, and be responsible for his/her own extra bandwidth usage via a throttle-like or burstable service; no more whining, no more blaming, you're now in control...
My 2 cents...
[text was edited by author 2003-09-17 18:59:30] | |
| | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | You'd know how much you were going to be charged per byte. But do you really know how many bytes you transfer? Every time you click on a link or download a file, you'd know the meter was ticking, but not necessarily how much. | |
| | |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
| Re: Death of broadband predicted, no stream at 11 I think as long as you brainstorm and ponder the issues, solutions can be found...
An example to browser based byte consumption, your ISP could offer a small IE Toolbar download (i.e. Google Search Bar) with Real Time KB consumption and corresponding price, or credit left...
For other usages such as gaming or streaming, it would be trickier but likely do-able...
--
Just Be!
[text was edited by author 2003-09-18 07:17:02] | |
| | | |
Nimdae
@direcpc.com
| Re: Death of broadband predicted, no stream at 11 Not necesarily. Windows already keeps track of transferred data. It would actually be more efficient to attach a program onto this function, and possibly have it sync up with the isp maybe once a day or upon request for info such as next reset date, and actual bandwidth consumption. Why would actual bandwidth consumption be different from what your computer tells you? If I were an ISP implementing this, I would add exemptions to sites such windows update, the isp servers (so updating itself would be free as well, and possibly email use if you use the ISP's email service), and other operating system update sites.
If done correctly, metered service would be a lot more beneficial than timed or tiered. | |
| | | | |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | Re: Death of broadband predicted, no stream at 11 Too Bad You're Un-Registered...
--
Just Be! | |
| 
jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| 1 Ping = $?? How much would I get charged for all of the unsolicited traffic that hits my cable modem?
I'm talking about port scans and pings here. For TCP, I would not want to be billed unless a connection is established. For UDP, this would be a lot more difficult.
Good luck with this one. | |
| |
See 14 replies to this post | |
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| No way am I paying for unwanted probes, and scans. Unless they make it so we can prevent all traffic, except the traffic we want from their network level, charging for the bandwidth is bs since you would be charged for bandwidth you didn't ask for.
What if some person were unlucky enough to get really DOS'd? They would sure pay for that....
Think how much it costs you to download, or review your spam e-mail which you didn't ask for?
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-17 20:02:55] | |
| |
ikarus1
Premium
join:2002-10-23
Urbanna, VA
| Re: No way am I paying for unwanted probes, and scans. said by BlitzenZeus :
Unless they make it so we can prevent all traffic, except the traffic we want from their network level, charging for the bandwidth is bs since you would be charged for bandwidth you didn't ask for.
What if some person were unlucky enough to get really DOS'd? They would sure pay for that....
Think how much it costs you to download, or review your spam e-mail which you didn't ask for?
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-17 20:02:55]
But you *CAN* prevent it.. Get a firewall and log your rejects. If you do that you can tell the ISP, " but I did not accept those packets. See, here are the logs."
What you fail to realize is that the ISP is ALREADY figuring that out on his own... OR ARE WE BACK TO A CONFIRMATION OF MY EARLIER ASSERTION???"
-m-
--
FAVORITE ANSWERED QUESIONQ: I want to add an antenna to my wireless device, any suggestions?A: »www.freeantennas.com | |
| | |
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: No way am I paying for unwanted probes, and scans. I don't fail to realize anything, if i'm paying for all the bandwidth per byte I'm not paying for bandwidth I didn't want, and to report things takes even more bandwidth. Any bandwidth inbound is already counted, just because you block it with your firwall doesn't mean its not counted as part of your inbound bandwidth.
Are you new to the world firewalls, and abuse desks? To think the ISP's actually take action against someone for scanning other machines is just something a newbie would think, and unless is somebody doing something in the nature of a real dos attack they usually don't do anything. Port scans are not malicious in nature, its only when they connect it is considered an abuse, but that is prevented even if there is something listening on the port.
The only way to effectively report logs in services like »www.mynetwatchman.com which had had some success from group reports, and most reports from users are dismissed since the majority are just GWF's(Goobers with firewalls) who think they are being attacked every time somebody pings them. The fact that most software firewalls classify port scans as attacks really adds to the Goober with firewall ignorance of many users who send in logs which who don't really know what they mean.
Stop assuming you know more than other people, and stop sending reports of port scans like a GWF to abuse desks so that the real reports might actually get some action.
To repeat, if they are going to charge per byte, they better have something in place so people don't pay for traffic they didn't ask for.
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-18 00:48:36] | |
| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| hmmm, let's see.... now which countries are considering b/w limitations and metered usage? Oh yes, the ones that aren't very high on the list of broadband penetration - U.S., UK and Australia
I haven't seen anything yet about these kind of limits in S. Korea or Japan; aren't those the two leading nations in broadband penetration?
Hmmmm | |
| |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | Re: hmmm, let's see.... ... and two completely different markets and business models.
--
Just Be! | |
| |
ikarus1
Premium
join:2002-10-23
Urbanna, VA
| Oh... yeah... I'm believing that...
Percentages mean nothing when the market is one twentieth the size of the one with which you would compare yourself...
Really.
-m-
--
FAVORITE ANSWERED QUESIONQ: I want to add an antenna to my wireless device, any suggestions?A: »www.freeantennas.com | |
| 
stelr920
join:2001-02-27
Saint Louis, MO | So? Tell me about it when it actually happens. They COULD charge by the byte, they COULD charge more per month, they COULD implement caps. I'm not worried about any of those things until they actually happen. | |
| ddietrich
join:2002-02-22
Longmont, CO
| A good way to loose customers Even today I am averaging 125 scans/hour from Blaster worms. Yes, that's one every 30 seconds. That is much less than a few weeks ago when the worm was in full force. I have also rejected 130 junk emails today. This is bandwidth nobody wants to pay for.
How about DOS type attacks? I could send garbage/invalid packets to your IP and run up your broadband bill.
Anybody do the math on Internet radio? A couple gig doesn't last very long for that.
Are these companies really this stupid or is this something that just gets re-hashed every few months? | |
| |
ikarus1
Premium
join:2002-10-23
Urbanna, VA
| Re: A good way to loose customers said by ddietrich :
Even today I am averaging 125 scans/hour from Blaster worms. Yes, that's one every 30 seconds. That is much less than a few weeks ago when the worm was in full force. I have also rejected 130 junk emails today. This is bandwidth nobody wants to pay for.
How about DOS type attacks? I could send garbage/invalid packets to your IP and run up your broadband bill.
Anybody do the math on Internet radio? A couple gig doesn't last very long for that.
Are these companies really this stupid or is this something that just gets re-hashed every few months?
No, friend, they are that stupid.
-m-
--
FAVORITE ANSWERED QUESIONQ: I want to add an antenna to my wireless device, any suggestions?A: »www.freeantennas.com | |
| | |
latez
join:2002-01-07
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| Re: A good way to loose customers I pray to god that they make broadband internet usage a utility. And I pray that the power companies soon offer bandwidth too, give both the telecom and cable industries a bit of a run for their money as for you. As for you, the last few posts that I managed to stomach coming out of you where filled with nonsense.. You yourself claim that their are Microsoft agents all about trying to influence board members.. the question I have for you is what organazation is paying you money to be a universal troll? Did you get you get your thesaurus out on that last post? need to impress someone? For someone running an isp? (or was that working for an isp?) you have way too much time to argue with people you seem to think have no "clue"... A few hundred years ago we could have easily stoned you, now we have to simply suffice with ridiculing your intellegence.
--
“The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity — the rest is overhead for the operating system.” —Nicholas Ambrose | |
| 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| The problem is the price Most of the arguments here assume that by the byte pricing would be close to actual costs. I seriously doubt it, which is why it is being pushed.
Once they get people to swallow that model, then then can raise prices as well. A nickle, dime, even a quarter per gig? Fuggetaboutit. These people are thinking $1-$5 a gig. They are seeing dancing dollar signs.
Me, I see lawsuits. Many.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| ydoucare
join:2003-03-12
Rensselaer, IN | . The vast majority of people with internet connections do not even know what a byte is, let alone how it would factor in to their bill every month. | |
|
Nimdae
@direcpc.com
| Cost about the same? Those people who think it's cool to charge 25 cents per gb since it would be close to what they are being charged when downloading 100gb a month is living in a dream world. What the ISPs are looking to do is punish those who use up bandwidth in this "abusive" manner, and reward those who don't. That means the cost would be closer to $1 per gb, plus basic service costs. I could see this working similar to how cellular plans work, you pay $20 a month and get 10gb to transfer. Each additional gb would be $1. Entering into a new gb, you would have to pay for the full gb, or whatever unit the ISP uses (100 mb, 10 mb, whatever, in the days of dialup when you were charged by the hour, if you entered into the next hour by just 1 minute, you paid for the full hour).
Another thing, which is more oriented towards marketing, I don't see it being labeled by the gb. It looks much better to say 10 cents per 100 mb, since you are talking about a low denomination and value on a bigger number of something. Kinda like how my cellular provider tells me I have 1000 minutes rather than 15 hours (yes, I know 1000 minutes is more than 15 hours...).
I could accept these prices for metered service. I'm not someone who is a light browser either. I download CDROM ISOs, and at times have 10+ terminal sessions open at once (if you run 'top' in all of them, you will generate 45+ mb of traffic per hour).
As for attacks, with the current technology in network IDS sensors, detection of portscans, probes, and attacks could be considered in the billing. Currently, there are ISPs which block portscans, netbios probes (msblast exploited RPC through netbios), so on and so forth. (D)DoS attacks are very easy to detect at the ISP level. Mail bombs have been detectable for some time.
As for software updates, this can be a complicated issue. Sites which offer 'can't live without' updates (such as windows update, redhat, suse, apple, etc) should be exempted, but how do you define this software? I think it should strictly be for use in updating the operating system, but someone else might think that updating antivirus should be included. Should we also include all the spyware removal tools, driver updates, popup blockers, and all those other tools designed to "protect" your computer? My opinion is that if it doesn't affect the operating system's software, then no, but I'm sure others disagree.
It all comes down to how it's implemented. No one will like the idea of how expensive it looks at first. But let me ask you this, would you pay 3 cents per minute for cellular service? I do pay it, and I bet you pay it as well, if not more, if you have cellular service.
BTW, Direcway internet (2 way satellite internet service) already uses a form of metered service options. Direcway standard allows you about 169 mb of traffic in a 1-4 hour time period during "peak" usage time, and like 250 mb "offpeak", whereas Direcway Pro allows more. Going over results in reduced or disconnected service for a short period of time. Direcway is already expensive to begin with, so it's not a good model, but it shows that it's already implemented in some form. | |
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b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | Re: Cost about the same? Just Register... | |
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Grale
@net.au
| Re: Cost about the same? alrighty then...just reading all the previous posts above makes me feel that my ISP sucks like hell..BIG TIME
i was reading through some of the posts and how somone paying ten dollars for exceeding one gigabyte was a total ripoff for some people...frankly im not against billing by the byte but i honestly think my ISP is robbing us in broad daylight...instead of charging by the gigabyte we're being charged by the MEGAbyte...and for EACH megabyte exceeded we're being charged $0.139, thats 13.9 cents.. and how fortunate for me to be exceeding my 3gigabyte limit by 700 mb and HAVING to pay 91 dollars extra on top of the monthyl fee of 95 bucks..
so here's my question, is there anyone out there who can tell me if there's a program that helps to monitor and limit my downloads...frankly i cant wait to switch isps but apparently the person who helped me register did it under a contract for one and a half years..only 3 more mths to go and im rid of this god forsaken service! | |
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Disclosure Please!