 Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI
 ·Comcast
| Got Pipe? I can only imagine how much bandwith they will need if they plan on offering to release HL2 via steam for a monthly fee. I think I read on a forum you can either buy it for $50.00 and have all the content as is (that is no CS2, no TFC2, no new content) or pay $9.99/month for access to Steam and all the content. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Got Pipe? The way I read that is, "Only the people who pay the monthly subscription will get the mods, updates, new maps, etc etc"
The people who DON'T pay will be screwed.
Pardon me, but if that's true, there are two letters for it:
"B" and "S" with lots of "!!!!!"'s.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Jaime
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Norwalk, CA | Re: Got Pipe? No, they'll get user made mods, updates, new maps but they won't get Valve made mods: TF2, DOD2(?) | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Got Pipe? I went back and looked again, and I think I see what they are saying. Add-ons and packs will be sold seperate, the same way they are now.
Ok, I'm happy, as long as I don't have to pay $10 a month to play, I'm happy. | |
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Poopsmith
That's Mr. Smith To You.
join:2003-03-12
Boulder, CO | Re: Got Pipe? I may be wrong, but I remember hearing that if you buy the Radeon 9800 XT, you get all the content free until HL2 is released, in which case you will have to go on the monthly plan. | |
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Speedy8
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
clubs: | Yeah, you can pay the monthly fee and download everything, including the original HL. Also they have a downloadable pay version, as well as 2 boxed versions, one for single player only, and one with multiplayer also. | |
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wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| Need proximity They need multiple locations and proximity, like Yahoo, in order to be effective. Unless you can send people to closer, less busy sites, they probably will not be interested in the wait. Now bandwidth will be a huge problem upon initial delivery, and new product introductions. But that should go away after.
puritan | |
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Speedy8
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
clubs: | Re: Need proximity I was under the assumption that they use multiple locations for it already. | |
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Jaime
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Norwalk, CA | Re: Need proximity You are correct, there are multiple locations and backbones for the Steam network. | |
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You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | That still does not mean that they are pushing you to the closest, fastest servers. I just looked at the server stats, and almost a third of their sites are down!
puritan | |
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Darkness Fears Me
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Mclean, VA
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Need proximity said by wentlanc  :
That still does not mean that they are pushing you to the closest, fastest servers. I just looked at the server stats, and almost a third of their sites are down!
The only reason is says that they are down is because they are changing the content on those servers. Also they are independently run so there can be problems every once and a while. Anyway all of the servers will be up on launch date giving them enough to max out a lot of peoples connections.
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For custom gaming computers head to www.asylumpc.com check us out! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Sounds sort of like load balancing. Does anybody know if they were using any kind of load balancing?
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Love Science Fiction? www.spacestationzoom.com | |
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statecop
Premium
join:2002-09-16
Albertville, AL
| HL community I like the features of steam but I dont think the community will be so willing to jump on board IF it becomes a monthly fee just to be able to play CS and other mods. I am not so sure I will and I have played HL mods since the very first beta of CS and Firearms. A lot of the people who play these mods are kids who do not have the money to put out for this not to mention adults that play it because it is still free to play unlike other game such as EQ, WWIIOL, and many more. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: HL community said by statecop :
I like the features of steam but I dont think the community will be so willing to jump on board IF it becomes a monthly fee just to be able to play CS and other mods.
I agree... considering how much one already has to spend per month just to get any kind of practical internet access, I would be very hesitant to plunk down even more money per month per game just to play online, especially with a system that doesn't even work.
Personally, I like playing network UT2003 games for free with my friends. Even over our cable connections, they work quite well 
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! | |
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Jaime
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Norwalk, CA
·Verizon FIOS
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: HL community Steam works well, it's just trying to estimate how much bandwidth you would need for the most popular game ever along with it being an open beta, didn't need to have half life installed, really surprised them. I've played 1.6b for a while and although it does get slow sometimes while connecting the constant updating really doesn't hurt me since I leave steam on overnight, thats when Valve sends the patches. And as I stated above, might want to read this »HALF-LIFE 2 NEWS: 3 different versions of hl2?
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"The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a strange protein; it rejects it." - P.B Medawar
Join the BBR BF clan | |
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mrchris
America the pitiful
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
·Optimum Online
| I think Valve is beating a dead horse (for a 5 year old mod, heck even Sven Co-op is, but it don't have all the idiots/hackers/morons CS has) to continue supporting this mod. Move over and support something fresh or that has less players.
»www.svencoop.com | |
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CoxCable4
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone |  expand it out
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Jaime
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Norwalk, CA | Re: expand it out They will be doing that, after the initial release they did exactly that. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
|  Re: expand it out
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Low Brass & Irish Terriers rule, and I love the warm glow of a vacuum tube in the morning | |
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dsanders16
join:2001-02-24
Auburn, AL | lol If you have a valid CD-Key I think it's free for any current mod's and games you have cd-keys to. | |
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Jaime
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Norwalk, CA | Re: lol Well yes, but others are talking about HL2 which you can do pay by month. | |
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mrchris
America the pitiful
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
·Optimum Online
edited
| Re: lol If you PAY for it fully in the store, there isn't a monthly fee cause your not downloading the game. There is NO pay to play whatsoever. I'm buying the version that included both single and multiplayer.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-08 14:25:02] | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by mrchris :
If you PAY for it fully in the store, there isn't a monthly fee cause your not downloading the game. There is NO pay to play whatsoever. I'm buying the version that included both single and multiplayer.
The link also seems to say the people WHO DON'T SUBSCRIBE will *not* get updates, new MODs, etc etc
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Yeah great...pay the price for the software And get a letter from your ISP (eg Cox) for violating daily DL restrictions.
Unless it's 1/2 price or something...I'm just going to continue getting it at the store (and benefit from owning the actual media).
This is just Fileplanet with less titles.
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack McKokkov Motorsports | |
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Jaime
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Norwalk, CA
·Verizon FIOS
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software It's not a "Fileplanet with less titles.", it'll be a content delivery application that will also try to thwart cheaters/hackers from manipulating key .dll files since files will be redownloaded from servers every so often to make sure they are in fact genuine.
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"The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a strange protein; it rejects it." - P.B Medawar
Join the BBR BF clan | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA | Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software No, it's a new money-tree...Fileplanet with less titles. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software You can either buy the title at the store or purchase the game for dl over steam. Either way steam will be free for you to use to update those titles you purchase, or to play mp.
Or you can subscribe for x amount of dollars per month and have access to all the games in valves library, until you stop paying.
How is that anything like fileplanet.
Content delivery systems are the future, weather you like it or not. You can either embrace them or let the rest of the world pass you by.
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
edited
| Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software Content delivery systems AREN'T the future. They have failed miserably EVERYTIME they're tried.
Show me a successful content delivery system. Gigex? LOL.
It's the same thing as Fileplanet and Gamespy...pay for older software (I've tried Steam 2.0...there are no newer titles) and updates you would otherwise get for free. Oh...you want free updates...with popularity you will have to get in the 40 minute line behind the paying customers (just like Fileplanet). You want to find and open server? Be prepared to be barraged with ads (just like Gamespy). Gamespy started out like Steam...small, simple...now look at it...FULL of annoying and intrusive ad content. Even now...there seems to be some free game content...that's how these services start to attract users but soon resort to pay to play or make part of their "premium" services content that used to be free.
Valve doesn't have a large enough library to make this hugely successful...especially if they expect to actually get money for this nonsense. They aren't Activision. Sure they have 2 popular games (HL and CS)...but you can't build a pay to play service around 2 games.
People have been touting content delivery forever...just like online music services. Both have failed time and time again.
This latest incarnation of Steam is no different. Think about it...where's Steam 1.0 of content delivery was so bitchen?
The ONLY way content delivery will work is if the content is reliable (my Steam 2.0 TFC download failed to install Fatal error 108), ISPs don't enforce daily DL caps and it's CHEAP...WAY CHEAP and so far there are no publishers (including Valve) willing to go that route. They try to sell this garbage based on convenience...but that's not what people are looking for. Steam 2.0 may serve Valve well if they continue putting their classic titles up for free and run it ad supported, promoting their newest titles (eg Real Arcade).
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack McKokkov Motorsports
[text was edited by author 2003-09-08 19:48:33] | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software Just because it hasn't been successful yet doesn't mean it won't ever be. And to totally dismiss it puts you in the same boat as my grandmother who constantly sends me AARP articles describing the evils of that newfangled internet (that ironically give email addresses to comment on the article).
As for charging for patches and such; when did you start playing halflife. Do you remember what the first version (particularly with respect to mp) of half-life was like You do realize how much free stuff they gave out, and how many things they could have charged for but didn't. If they were honestly out to screw people, when CS went retail they would have made it so you had to go out and purchase it retail in order to continue playing it.
They've proven themselves in the past; if anyone is can do content delivery right Valve will.
As for FilePlanet: you can bitch and moan about what they did in implementing ad's and a subscription service; but what it comes down to is the fact that most of the sites that didn't implement similar things are no longer around. You don't have much of a right to complain about a service that's free. (and don't point out patches that you can't download from the manufacturers site, you're issue in this case is with the manufacturer and not FilePlanet).
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Infogrames != Atari | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
edited
| Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software And to claim that anyone who doesn't jump of the bandwagon of content delivery is the end all be all is no better than early adopters of Beta, DAT and Minidisc.
BTW, the Steam content isn't hosted by Valve, it's provided by NVIDIA.
A lot of publishers just point to Fileplanet or similar (wait in line sites) for their patches/updates...INCLUDING VALVE.
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports
[text was edited by author 2003-09-09 00:03:47] | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
edited
| Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software said by oliphant5 :
And to claim that anyone who doesn't jump of the bandwagon of content delivery is the end all be all...
When was the last time you saw the postal service use stage coaches to deliver mail. They don't because there's a more efficient way.
Content delivery is much more efficient method of delivering digital media because it cuts out many pieces of the supply chain that don't need to be there (printers, publishers, distributer); pieces that, by the way, make it impossible for small developers to market a game.
said by oliphant5 :
...is no better than early adopters of Beta, DAT and Minidisc.
All three of which were successful... in the pro audio/video sectors, simply because they were better at doing what they were supposed to do.
said by oliphant5 :
BTW, the Steam content isn't hosted by Valve, it's provided by NVIDIA.
So, why does that matter? I'm sure some of it comes from speakeasy's servers as well.
said by oliphant5 :
A lot of publishers just point to Fileplanet or similar (wait in line sites) for their patches/updates...INCLUDING VALVE.
Yes, this is a bad business practice but that would be vivendi/universal (Sierra's) decision. They're the ones responsible for distributing HL patches, valve probably doesn't have much of a say. And again your beef isn't with FilePlanet, it's with vivendi/universal. Ironically this content delivery thing your so scared of is an attempt to bypass VU, who I suspect may not be on the best of terms with Valve at this point.
And finally. If you don't want to use steam, don't buy HL2 and don't patch HL anymore; if enough people do this it'll be a miserable failure and Steam will disappear forever.
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Infogrames != Atari
[text was edited by author 2003-09-09 00:41:13] | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL
| said by Jaime :
It's not a "Fileplanet with less titles.", it'll be a content delivery application that will also try to thwart cheaters/hackers from manipulating key .dll files since files will be redownloaded from servers every so often to make sure they are in fact genuine.
AHAHAHAHAH!!! then you didnt play beta 1.6 for CS using the Steam beta!!! had even more hacks than the current 1.5! and they were much worse!!! you could kill the entire other team from spawn with the 1.6 hacks rofl...
Valve is stupid if they think im going to pay per month to play a game...
the only people that pay for a game per month are the crazy obsessive people that play everquest etc... | |
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Minvaren
Premium
join:2001-07-26
Houston, TX
clubs:
| To check on the bandwidth... You can click here and check. Currently half of the content servers are offline as they prep them for release, so the number as of right now will be lower than is available for "prime-time" release.
As far as using it? I cold-installed Half-Life, patched it to 1.1.0.6 (I think that's the current release) and then installed Counter-Strike 1.5.
Steam client download : 10 seconds.
Steam install (including downloads) : 3.5 minutes
Counter-Strike/Half-Life initial update : 15 minutes
(keep in mind that every major "point upgrade" to CS and HL require 2 70+MB downloads if you use the full installers, and 2 10+MB downloads if you use the upgraders)
Subsequent CS/HL patches were roughly 30-60 seconds each.
This is on 1.5M DSL, and the download was at more like 768k. I have no issue with the pipes available so far for the patching, it's the connect time (as all files get scanned for current versions) that is a bit slower than it was. As "Steam" won't be used for the Client-Server communication while playing, only the initial signon/patching/connect, it should work pretty well. | |
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Maggs
Premium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY
clubs:
·RCN CABLE
| Re: To check on the bandwidth... They could load balance the connections with a server in Europe, where not many have high speed access at home. Half Life would probably need a couple OC3s to work reasonably well with online content delivery.
They could place one OC3 with server farm in Ireland, with a population of 3 million people, not many are online. Then they could also try Austrailia, and Hawaii, and maybe British Colombia in Canada, that way the connections are spread geographically so that users nearest a point use those connections.\
In the US, they could have a server every 1,500 miles of land, one in NYC, one in the Midwest, and one in CA.
Also, they could license BitTorrent Technologies that could spread out the connection across a multiple of users. That way bandwidth would be less of a problem.
Maybe this config could work:
One Server/ Connection in British Columbia
One Server/ Connection in California
One Server/ Connection in Ohio
One Server/ Connection in Florida
One Server/ Connection in Virginia
One Server/ Connection in NYC or Upstate NY
One Server/ Connection in Ireland
One Server/ Connection in Austrailia
That way people closest to a point could connect to the nearest area thereby reducing time of bandwidth usage. The more points that are accessible near you the better the bandwidth quality and reliability.
Just my take on things. I ain't an IT expert either, so don't shoot me.
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Let's get right to the . | |
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seppytech
join:2002-06-04
Boca Raton, FL
| Not sure if Steam will be accepted... I think one of the reasons CS got so big was decentralization. Servers are everywhere: 11,000 of them the last time I checked!
But Valve wasn't making a whole lot off this massive community (besides the 1 time purchase) so the Marketing Dept. comes up with this.
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Buy Cool Games" | |
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Sebastian
Premium
join:2000-12-22
New Haven, CT | Re: Not sure if Steam will be accepted... actually there are 26,000+ CS servers and about 80,000 - 100,000 gamers online at any given time.
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upon reflection, i decided to post. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| It's still just about as decentralized with steam as it was without. Pre-steam we were all tied to the WON servers for cd-key verification.
My understanding is that once steam validates that you actually own the game (or pay for the subscription), and checks for cheats; steam will turn over control to the game executable.
Game servers will still be run by individuals like it's always been.
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Infogrames != Atari | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL
| Re: Not sure if Steam will be accepted... said by Combat Chuck :
It's still just about as decentralized with steam as it was without. Pre-steam we were all tied to the WON servers for cd-key verification.
My understanding is that once steam validates that you actually own the game (or pay for the subscription), and checks for cheats; steam will turn over control to the game executable.
Game servers will still be run by individuals like it's always been.
bzz wrong
if you used the steam beta you would have seen that there are monthly "subscription fees" associated with every game INCLUDING DEDICATED SERVERS!?!
if they actually do this they are shooting themselves in the foot | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
edited
| Re: Not sure if Steam will be accepted... Sigh,
about pay for play:
»halflife2.homelan.com/forums/sho···did=5867
and it was reposted at many sites so it's not just rumor
secondly I believe it was in this post over at the official steam forums:
»steampowered.com/forums/showthre···id=11562
a post by Erik Johnson explaining that (after the initial install and maintence) steam just validates that the install is untampered with, and that you have a right to play (IE a steam subscription or a valid CD Key), and then turns control over to the executable.
I did use the steam beta BTW, the key word there being beta.
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Infogrames != Atari
[text was edited by author 2003-09-09 18:52:53] | |
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drainbamage
join:2000-10-30
Beverly Hills, CA
| steam seems fine to me so far..... Personally, I have been using Steam and prefer the CS community there ( to date ) over GameSpy's ( or at least I think I perceive a difference). I do not see as many glitchers on Steam but they are there and that still is a major downer that has to be overcome...
I don't have a problem in forking out cash for a title, but online play is not something I will ever pay for.........
I am a dope, I believe that HL2 and DOOM3 will help turn the economy around or at least really help kill the time until it does........so I find it very exciting that HL2 might actually hit 09-30.......
(the above is my opinion and I assure you I will not be swayed by facts.....) | |
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Mishotaki
join:2003-09-10
j0v 1a0 | B S i won't pay for sh*t that would make us pay to play a game of 6vs6 persons.... that would not even be hosted by steam.... just B S | |
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tWb
@rr.com
| Re: B S TBH, i think valve just wants some money, look at it like this. CS has been around for years... its the largest multiplayer game ever and has more then 80,000 players at anygiven time. CS isnt free, to this day Half Life sits in retail store shelves for one reason, the MODS. Valve and sierra have a deal worked out for a percentage... Not one game as old as HL is still sitting in retail stores worldwide. Its kinda obovious that its all about the money, Steam is a nice piece of software, but like alot of people said it wont work out. Think about this, say you buy alot of content off of steam, then one day, they go out of business and shut it down... you lose everything you bought. And for those of you saying apps like steam are the wave of the future.. i pitty you, I would rather go to the store and buy a piece of software with the disk in my hand, then to use a credit card over the net, to buy software from a company that charges kids to play a 4 year old video game... its sad and pathetic, if valve does this it will be the end of CS and HL | |
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drunk3npanda
join:2002-12-08
| if u guys havent noticed... about cs i played cs since the good ol days of 2000.
(beta 5s)
back then i would get GOOD UNCHOKED 200 ping.
then after that, EVERY DAMN version their "new netcode" would seriously f*ck things up.
now comes 1.6, this is some laggy sh*t and makes scrimming hard.
no one wants this version to come out (well most of us), why cant we just all wait for hl2. omg | |
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rosmini
join:2000-05-03
Albuquerque, NM
| I don't play it like I used to but I joined the beta shortly after it began and have used the half life cd to play online and I can say that not having to download 50 updates to make the cd version current was NICE and even with the updates on cd it can take awhile to get them installed with steam If you choose to you can begin playing within 20 minutes. You can do this with any of the mods it supports. To a certain extent it helped some with the cheating but only when the steam players were separated from the servers using the retail version. | |
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Synergy Games man
@cable.rogers | distributors anyone know any web sites of video game distributors? I'm starting my own video game store, and want to find a company to buy bulk games off of. any help is highly appreciated | |
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Steam Powered
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Phater Pipe
Re: Yeah great...pay the price for the software