Battle Over UNE-PCLECs quick to snuggle up to voice competitors ( old news - 11:13AM Tuesday Sep 02 2003) tags: competition · fcc · telco · clecCovad is quick to take advantage of UNE-P rules left intact by the triennial review, while the bells sue the FCC over the "loophole" in their competitive plans. - Both the majority of the baby bells and the United States Telecom Association (USTA) filed suits last week over the FCC's preservation of the unbundled network element platform (UNE-P) guidelines. The rules allow smaller telco competitors (and small broadband providers if they offer or bundle voice services) to continue sharing the bell lines at discounted rates. The FCC's decision to keep UNE-P intact "really starts to call into question the FCC's ability to be timely, relevant and constructive in today's communications marketplace," says USTA Chief Executive Officer Walter McCormick. Wasting no time in taking advantage of the ruling, Covad today announced the company would be extending their partnership with MCI. The deal gives MCI access to Covad's 1,800 central offices, and allows Covad continue to offer DSL over UNE-P shared lines without being subject to the coming price increases facing bell line-shared DSL connections. According to Covad's press release, 10 million UNE-P lines are in service, a number number that is expected to double by 2005. "Even before the FCC decision we were accelerating our focus towards line-splitting agreements with bundles of voice and data services for residential customers as demonstrated by our agreements with AT&T and Z-Tel," says Covad CEO Charles Hoffman. When the original FCC ruling was announced last February, questions about CLEC survivability emerged, since line-sharing was set to be "phased out". However a grandfathering provision allows DSL CLEC's to maintain current line-shared customers at the already agreed to rates, a nice break for existing line-shared customers and the CLECs that service them. It's something that doesn't sit well with telcos however, and industry reps were quick to exchange barbs after the lawsuits emerged last week. "Our customers are being required to subsidize huge corporations like AT&T and MCI, and the subsidies need to end," opined Steve Davis, Qwest senior VP of policy and law. "We're required to provide switches to MCI and AT&T at prices that are below cost. There's no reason these companies can't purchase and install switching equipment on their own. It's unfair to us and unfair to our customers," Davis says. According to MCI spokeswoman Carolyn Tyler, "The Bells just can't stand the thought of any competition in their monopoly markets."New line-shares are subject to continual 25% price hikes over three years, after which it's up to the CLECs to negotiate rates independently with the telcos. For the time being UNE-P guidelines allow the CLECs to use voice bundles to avoid such charges. Since the Triennial review dumps a large portion of the decision making in the laps of the states, legal pugilism on the state and federal level is expected, and will alter how these rules play out on a state-to-state basis. Related:- Qwest FTTN Upgrades Causing Problems For CLECs
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- Tuesday Evening Links
- Wednesday Evening Links
- Court Upholds FCC Apt. Exclusivity Ban
- FCC Greenlights Centurytel/Embarq With Wimpy Conditions
- FCC Cleans Up 'Forbearance' Process
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
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  Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| This gets so old Instead of years in court why don't they get Vince McMann to stage something like "TELCO MANIA I" watch the Telco Tag Team whoop-up on COVAD the Barbarian, and the Vonage Voltamen. At least we can be entertained while we are finding out who is going to screw us next. -- Low Brass & Irish Terriers rule, and I love the warm glow of a vacuum tube in the morning [text was edited by author 2003-09-02 11:51:25] | |
|  |   fancydancer Perception is reality Premium join:2002-08-28 Springfield, IL clubs: | Re: This gets so old Ha ha! Who gets to be the referees? | |
|  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | Re: This gets so old why kobe bryant and janet reno of course.  | |
|  |  |   calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| OK, here's the situation:
1. RBOCs are required to provide UNEs to CLECs (and DLECs) at rates they complain about--but rates the US Supreme Court has upheld and which reflect "forward looking" costs--the costs which drive any competitive market.
2. IXCs (who are also, mostly, CLECs) have to buy access from RBOCs to cover the "last mile" of their calls at rates they complain about. All parties agree that access charges are set way above cost--the difference is that RBOCs have successfully lobbied to keep them in spite of this fact. Indeed, the "per minute" access charge for termination should be the same as the local termination charge (between three-tenths and half a cent) but is instead more like a full cent. The services are the same--in fact, this unjustified difference is at the heart of the latest MCI scandal.
Now, between a disputed charge the US Supreme Court has upheld and a disputed charge all parties agree is way above cost, who is getting the unjustified subsidy?
Calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: This gets so old unjustified subsidy? Just look at the whole thing that went on in PA regarding Verizon getting to keep all the funds they were given to run fibre to every business and home in their territories. Somehow, they managed to weasle out of running the fiber, but got to keep all the subsidies.[/QUOTE] ------------------------------------------------------------ And I see a Politician at the signing of this agreement. With a 300 tooth grin while getting his picture taken for the latest newspaper he smiles because he knows this will get him reelected. -- Low Brass & Irish Terriers rule, and I love the warm glow of a vacuum tube in the morning [text was edited by author 2003-09-03 04:24:05] | |
|  clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22 GA
| Cant Someone Else Do It? I think a large part of the reason this will be ugly is that the FCC put this all back on the States to hammer out. Something they may or may not be able to do well. And how much will this cost taxpayers to grind out? [text was edited by author 2003-09-02 11:57:19] | |
|  |   calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Cant Someone Else Do It? Most of the costs (attorneys for the telcos) will be paid by ratepayers, who are also mostly taxpayers. There will be additional proceedings by state employees, but it's unlikely any additional funding will cover these. Instead, these state employees will be diverted from other projects, like trying to devise the best way to prevent electrical blackouts.
Calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
|  |  |   JakCrow
join:2001-12-06 Palo Alto, CA | Re: Cant Someone Else Do It? Remember, the RBOCs also try to interfere with companies that are building their own physical networks too. | |
|  |  rradina
join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO | More of a concern, at least in my opinion, is how many different ways will the various states handle it? | |
|  pyro_527
join:2002-05-05 Palatka, FL
| Invest within.... Why don't the clec's just invest within themselves to build an infrastructure of their own and get out from the Bell's? Sure that wouldn't happen over night but, it isn't going to happen at all if they aren't forced to do something along those lines. As far as the Bell's are concerned, I might be ticked off myself.....it's like telling Avis Car rental that they have to lease a car to Budget at half price so they can build a customer base where they don't have an office of their own. I think it is time for me to start mass marketing a package deal on the net.....limited time offer.....$9.95 + shipping....free yourself from telco's with my 2 cans -n- string in a box brought to you by String Can Communications.....***warning - you get what you pay for....*** -- Spandex - it's a privilege not a right.... | |
|  |   Spiro0
join:2003-08-04 Austin, TX
| Re: Invest within.... Because everyone is trying to piggyback on all the wires that have been run over the last, what 100 years? The Bells have quite a head start.
The sad fact is once a CLEC gets out of Bell's wires they may be stuck renting space on utility poles which might belong to the Bells.
BTW, that poses a question: Who owns most of those poles in the US and abroad -- municipalities, electric utilities, or telcos? | |
|  |  |  pyro_527
join:2002-05-05 Palatka, FL
| Re: Invest within.... I believe that electrical utilities owns most of them....after all, who comes out to replace them when a car plows one over.....At least that is how it is where I live.... -- Spandex - it's a privilege not a right.... [text was edited by author 2003-09-02 12:53:33] | |
|  |  |  tree_in_atl
join:2003-09-02 Atlanta, GA | In Georgia and Florida mostly power companies. Look for a brand or metal tag just above head heighth. | |
|  |  |   spg Grrrr
join:2001-10-31 NOT Texas!
| said by Spiro0 :
BTW, that poses a question: Who owns most of those poles in the US and abroad -- municipalities, electric utilities, or telcos?
Each of the utilities own some and sell back portions of the poles to their counterpart. Usually there is an office inside the state's utility regulatory department. And there is usually a set schedule of rates for the utilities to pay each other. When there is a wreck, Power usually gets there first, then Telco, and finally CATV. They rarely work on the same leads (let alone poles) at the same time for safety reasons. But, in nonemergencies a Telco will set a pole first, do their work and then Power will follow. It all depends on who needs the pole the most.
When it's time to abandon a pole, the last company on it gets to remove it, so it's not uncommon for them to race to see who can not be last.
The only time a municipality would own a pole is if they owned the utility. They don't own them on their own and then just rent them out. -- Proud Union Member of CWA | |
|  |  |  |   Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: Invest within.... RE: When it's time to abandon a pole, the last company on it gets to remove it, so it's not uncommon for them to race to see who can not be last. ***********************************************************
This is a prime source for Hamradio operators who need pole to hold antennas up. If you ask many times they will give you the poles, and in some cases they will place them for you if there isn't to much involved. Saves them the trouble of disposing of it. -- Low Brass & Irish Terriers rule, and I love the warm glow of a vacuum tube in the morning | |
|  |  clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22 GA
| said by pyro_527 : Why don't the clec's just invest within themselves to build an infrastructure of their own and get out from the Bell's?
How many pairs of copper would have to be at your house and business? If every company ran network we'd have poles and wires everywhere. It's just not practical to overlap networks like this.
As a business I can see where Bell is kinda getting screwed,(I am forgetting all the screwing they do and looking from a pure network standpoint) but it is for the good of everybody else it happens. [text was edited by author 2003-09-02 13:14:10] | |
|  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Invest within.... said by clecrupt9 : If every company ran network we'd have poles and wires everywhere. It's just not practical to overlap networks like this.
Pennsylvania isn't exactly known for its broadband deployments (*cough*fiber*cough*) but there is one strategy that we did here for electric power that benefitted the consumer and made money for the suppliers. The generation and distribution sides of the business were separated. The generating companies are allowed to produce power with minimal regulation, but the distribution side still retains price regulation. I think the best solution would be to do the same for the telegraph companies. If a separate, regulated company was in charge of maintaining the network, then other companies would all have an equal shot at using that network. -- Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! | |
|  |  |  |  pyro_527
join:2002-05-05 Palatka, FL | Re: Invest within.... That almost sounds logical but, does logic exist in how telecommunications are run? -- Spandex - it's a privilege not a right.... | |
|  |  |  |  |  clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22 GA
| Re: Invest within.... Some states have tried that, its called structural separation. To an extent it is in place, the ISP side of telco is supposed to pay and be treated just like a competing ISP. This doesnt always happen, some states have sued the telco for allowing its ISP special pricing. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   roamer1 sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24 Atlanta, GA clubs:
| Re: Invest within.... said by clecrupt9 : Some states have tried that, its called structural separation.
"Arm's length" relationships (the relationships between, say, BellSouth.net and BellSouth Telecommunications, where BST is required to view BS.net the same as Earthlink, Speed Factory, etc.) is *not* structural separation by any means; among other things, it still permits cross-subsidies and bundling that hurts independent competitors. "Ideal" structural separation entails *completely* separating the outside plant business (the last-mile bottleneck) from the actual provision of services...it's much more akin to GA's gas deregulation, where many marketers have equal access to AGL's local pipelines on equal terms (you still pay the same base charges with SCANA as you do with the Gas Guy, etc.)
-SC -- No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/ Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22 GA
| Re: Invest within.... Bellsouth isnt separated, but I was thinking one or two states had either come really close to or had actually done this.
The problem, if it were done in only one state, would be that the telco is still the same outside that state, and would do everything to belittle that state for doing this. When people complained about no dsl, or dialtone the telco would say its because the state doesnt know what its doing. | |
|  |  |  |  tree_in_atl
join:2003-09-02 Atlanta, GA
| Did it for natural gas in Georgia. I don't know why the RBOC-s fight that solution. The "natural utility" is the "pipe" -be it copper, fiber, coax, ect. - and the unregulated portion would be the switching - dedicated time slot or router (thus including voice or data. Take your pick.) | |
|  |  |  |  |   calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Invest within.... The RBOCs fight that solution because it would not allow them to leverage network control to the advantage of their retail arm.
The beauty of the solution is the reason the RBOCs hate it--they don't want "a fair chance". They want a guaranteed advantage.
Calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
|  |  |  |  wtansill Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10 Falls Church, VA
| said by pnh102 : said by clecrupt9 : If every company ran network we'd have poles and wires everywhere. It's just not practical to overlap networks like this.
Pennsylvania isn't exactly known for its broadband deployments (*cough*fiber*cough*) but there is one strategy that we did here for electric power that benefitted the consumer and made money for the suppliers. The generation and distribution sides of the business were separated. The generating companies are allowed to produce power with minimal regulation, but the distribution side still retains price regulation. I think the best solution would be to do the same for the telegraph companies. If a separate, regulated company was in charge of maintaining the network, then other companies would all have an equal shot at using that network.
I used to think that model would be preferable. Given the latest blackout, I'm not sure. If it's done at all, there needs to be some mandatory ("regulated") minimum amount spent on maintenance and upgrades to prevent a telecom equivalent of the latest power outage... -- That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. | |
|  |  |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Invest within.... said by wtansill : I used to think that model would be preferable. Given the latest blackout, I'm not sure. If it's done at all, there needs to be some mandatory ("regulated") minimum amount spent on maintenance and upgrades to prevent a telecom equivalent of the latest power outage...
Actually, our deregulated system was credited with preventing the blackout from spreading all the way to Florida. Of course it was due to the fact that the people running the PJM Interconnect were not asleep at the wheel. -- Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! | |
|  |  |   vzvzvz
@aol.com
| Theres a company called RCN that installs its own network into apartment buildings and runs fiber thru the street.
If a little startup like RCN can do it, why couldnt AT&T and MCI (before their scandal broke out) do the same exact thing?
And then AT&T or MCI could sell access on their networks.. | |
|   Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| They Hate our PUC Qwest just loves Wyoming's PUC. They have screwed the state so many times when they walk in now it's like they are going in to get strapped to a electric chair and the PUC are the witnesses to the execution. Which is just the way I like it. -- Low Brass & Irish Terriers rule, and I love the warm glow of a vacuum tube in the morning | |
|   oliphant5 Got Identity? Premium join:2003-05-24 Corona, CA | If at first (second or third) you don't succeed Sue, sue again. | |
|  |  lesopp
join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Re: If at first (second or third) you don't succeed But that is the only way they know how to compete. Wouldn't it be nice if they extricated their heads from the old anal cavity and actually put forward some competition.
The shills must be fuming. | |
|  neftv
join:2000-10-01 Broomall, PA | Way to go Covad Does this mean that since my CO was not serviced by MCI (before known as Worldcom) I will be able to get the 1536/768 cable buster dsl service soon? I have Covad now. | |
|   tomsprat Draw Me A "Cold One" Premium,ExMod 2002-04 join:2000-11-03 Fort Lauderdale, FL clubs: | Just take a look at your phone bill... ...and all the "incidental" fees. Who's screwing who? I'm tired of all this. 'Nuff said... -- Anything that ever was, was once a dream... | |
|  javatown_us
join:2002-09-03 Seattle, WA
| ILECS are full of IT What the Bells did was pass the fee's to local UNE voice customers instead of broadband. They have total fees they divie up for local customers and broadband customers. Last year it was MORE PROFITABLE for the bells to say they need NOTHING on broadband and so they set the price to zero for linesharing. (THEY DID THIS) and put all the fees to Local Telephone. Now they are screaming like stuck pigs.
Increase linesharing prices fine. But then decrease voice service. Its one or the other Bells! They are claiming there fees are going down but don't want to tell the FCC commission how much. All political BS. | |
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