Their Own MedicinePride, the spammer's worst enemy ( old news - 01:45PM Tuesday Aug 19 2003) tags: spamLesson to spammers: If you're going to spam, at least have the common sense to avoid the pitfalls of media interviews. It seems that every month or so, a spammer decides to do an interview with a media outlet, then is either shocked or outraged by the public outcry. Such was the case with spammer Alan Ralsky, who decided to brag about his $740,000 house to the Detroit Free Press, then was surprised to find himself signed up for every junk mail list known to mankind several weeks later. The same story is now playing out in New Zealand. Shane Atkinson, who hawks sexual potency pills via e-mail, discussed how he and his "associates" send out over 100,000 spam e-mails a day. He even explained how he has a 15 year old in the states who makes $500 a day helping him mass market. In an interview with the New Zealand Herald, he says he doesn't understand why people get so worked up about spam, and that they should "just delete them." Of course the result was predictable. Just a few days later found his personal information plastered to the web, concern now brewing about the safety of his children. He's received menacing phone calls, had several servers shut down, been subscribed to a gay dating service mailing list, and was added to the lists of marketers around the globe. Unlike Ralsky however, he's apparently had a change of heart, and has decided to get out of the spamming business, saying "I sort of feel good now about stopping this." It's ironic that spammers spend so much time concealing their identity, only to have a hunger for the media spotlight be their undoing. Until a technical or legislative solution is found for spam, cyber-vigilantism seems to be the flavor of the day. But how long before someone, whose cheese has clearly slipped off their cracker, takes the idea too far? Related:- Scammers Try To Salvage McColo Data
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 HawkI911
join:2002-04-08 San Antonio, TX | Hypocrite.... If I remember correctly Ralsky stated that he didn't mind receiveing junk mail because he always had the ability to throw it away. I guess now that he's gotten a taste of his own medicine, he doesn't like being spammed either. | |
|  |   Jetta392 Premium join:2002-07-14 Martinsville, NJ | Re: Hypocrite.... This will haunt him for the rest of his life now.... | |
|  |  |   Phoenix__1
join:2003-07-17 Holyoke, MA | Re: Hypocrite.... Personally, if I was going to be a spammer, I would be keeping it as low key as possible & not up in the public eye, for the world to know. | |
|  |  |  |  james1969jw
join:2002-01-12 Indianapolis, IN | Re: Hypocrite.... Way to funny. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  katknip4u
join:2003-08-20 West Palm Beach, FL
| Hypocrites....ALL OF YOU! YOU ARE ALL HYPOCRITES!
You worried so much about receiving a piece of electronic mail that you are willing to endanger someone's life. Are you all so stupid that you can't simply filter out the junk mail in your email program? Who are you to tell ANYONE that they shouldn't receive something FREE, NEW, BETTER, or any of the other bullshit advertisments in the SPAM's Subject line. Some people actually learn about new products via the SPAM. I think it was HITLER and STALIN who were burning the book we, the people, should not have been reading.
I have a great idea! Why don't all of you assbags put your HATE towards something more constructive. How about the JUNK mail in your mailbox. How many forests are cut down for that crap? How about the chemicals released into the atmosphere during milling. Or maybe you can all turn off your useless computers and get involved in local and federal politics. I wonder, how many of you voted last election.
Stop your bullshit crying and do something important with your lives. At the minimum learn how to filter SPAM with your email program.
WAKE UP PEOPLE....OUR COUNTRY IS GOING TO SHIT AND YOUR WORRIED ABOUT SPAM!!
M. OGDEN | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  katknip4u
join:2003-08-20 West Palm Beach, FL | Re: ? Looks like maybe your MOTOR is out of gas! | |
|  |  |  |  |   Motorhead5
join:2000-06-05 Woodside, NY
| Re: ? Look, we (internet users, taxpayers, whatever) have the right to privacy and not receive junk correspondence in our mail boxes - e, snail or voice. That's all. But too many of us are forced to spend too much time (particularly at work) filtering out the crap. That's a drain of our resources that sometimes costs us. That's why many of us get bent out of shape about it.
As for my response to your post, I just don't get your rant. | |
|  |  |   Gryph
@edu.au
| Re: Hypocrites....ALL OF YOU! Interesting. Someone posting to a list on the 'net encouraging people to get off the net and go save the planet. Quick M.Ogden, you've just wasted five minutes! Get off YOUR arse and save the country. The people posting here are not really interested in changing the subject to saving the country, they're talking about a spammer. I think you should be able to find a 'save the country' list somewhere.
Oh, your arguments are mere fluff:
'... Who are you to tell ANYONE that they shouldn't receive something FREE, NEW, BETTER, or any of the other bullshit advertisments in the SPAM's Subject line...'
Errmm, can you point me to the text where someone has told me I *shouldn't* receive spam? It's like this M.OGDEN, I DO NOT WANT TO RECEIVE UNSOLICITED E-MAIL. Why should I have to receive it when I don't want it? Why should I have to pay for receiving something that some low-life phuk gets paid to send?
'... Some people actually learn about new products via the SPAM...'
What a complete load of pure tripe! The vast majority of people looking for a product or a solution to a problem go to somewhere that can potentially solve their problem or provide the service. They don't wait idly by in the hope that some spam will solve all their problems. C'mon M.OGDEN, get a clue please.
'... I think it was HITLER and STALIN who were burning the book we, the people, should not have been reading.'...'
Now that's an unusual analogy, associating the oppressionist tactics of a couple of old-world dictators with spam and spammers. I'd suggest the analogy should be, spammers force their texts and literature upon unwilling citizens, just as Hitler and Stalin did with their literature and texts.
'...I have a great idea! Why don't all of you assbags put your HATE towards something more constructive. How about the JUNK mail in your mailbox...'
Don't have to M.OGDEN. Our laws allow us to put a 'no junk mail' notice on our letterboxes. If the distribution company leaves junk mail in a mailbox with a no junk notification, we can take the advertised company *and* the advertisers and the distributors to court.
'...How many forests are cut down for that crap?...'
M.OGDEN, you obviously use a computer. How much raw fuel, trees and other natural resources were destroyed to make your computer? How many trees were destroyed to create your domicile? How many thousands upon thousands of acres of forest have been destroyed so that you and your friends can eat McDonalds and Burger King? How many forests have been destroyed so you can have a Coffee?
'...How about the chemicals released into the atmosphere during milling...'
Irrelevant as most of your comments M.OGDEN.
'...Or maybe you can all turn off your useless computers and get involved in local and federal politics...'
What, and not get to waste endless hours responding to flame bait like yours? Not likely. I am involved in local politics in my home town M./OGDEN. Are you?
'...I wonder, how many of you voted last election...'
and your point is?
'...Stop your bullshit crying and do something important with your lives. At the minimum learn how to filter SPAM with your email program.
WAKE UP PEOPLE....OUR COUNTRY IS GOING TO SHIT AND YOUR WORRIED ABOUT SPAM!!'
It appears to me that you are trying to compensate for a self-perceived lack of self-worth. You encourage others by abuse to do something else. Are you sure you are not really telling yourself that you need to slow down and stop making a fool of yourself? | |
|  |  |  |  katknip4u
join:2003-08-20 West Palm Beach, FL
| Re: Hypocrites....ALL OF YOU! Ya, I bet your involved in politics. You probably vote along party lines no matter which lier is running. Again, just like a good little conservative, you take things to extremes in order to invalidate an argument or a cause.
There are many trees dying so that we can wipe our asses, but that doesn't mean we should go around dirty. Some things of a common sense type of air about them.
You are probably one of those that thinks it ok to kill abortion doctors, too. Focus on the issue. How does phucken SPAM really effect your life. It it worth getting so worked up about that you are willing to condone endangering a spammer's family?
Are you so inadequate that SPAM is all you have in life?
Move on! | |
|  |  |  |  |   Gryph
@edu.au
| Re: Hypocrites....ALL OF YOU! 'Ya, I bet your involved in politics. You probably vote along party lines no matter which lier is running.'
You didn't answer my previous question M.OGDEN, are *you* involved in politics? I'll take your non-response as a no.
'Again, just like a good little conservative, you take things to extremes in order to invalidate an argument or a cause.'
Another comment without substance. What extremes? What I did was trivialise the rot you spewed forth. Nothing more really.
'...There are many trees dying so that we can wipe our asses, but that doesn't mean we should go around dirty...'
Didn't you bring up the subject of dying trees? I've spent a good part of my life fighting for the environment (yep, I'm a bloody Greenie) and have a pretty good grasp on what's happening to our environment and why.
'Some things of a common sense type of air about them.'
Hey, you're right!
'You are probably one of those that thinks it ok to kill abortion doctors, too.'
No, actually. I really don't care what other people do with their bodies and have no problems with doctors. That's their choice. It's spam that's the subject M.OGDEN, not abortion, trees or whatever else you are trying to associate this discussion with.
'Focus on the issue. How does phucken SPAM really effect your life.'
I'm unsure as to your circumstances, the same as you don't really know mine. However, due to the nature of my job, I get 60% legitmate mail and 40% spam. In other words, I receive around 100 types of spam a day. No, I can't hide my e-mail address. That is a part of my work. No, I won't spend time and money on mail filtering just because some phuk is trying to make money at my expense. I get extremely pissed off having to filter through shit that costs me time and money because some phuk decides he wants to sit on his arse and make money at my expense. When spam costs me money, it means that the wankers who spam are stealing food from my child's mouth.
' It it worth getting so worked up about that you are willing to condone endangering a spammer's family?'
My oath. Can you quote where I condoned the endangerment of his family? No. Because I didn't condone endangering his family.
'Are you so inadequate that SPAM is all you have in life?'
No, and I won't go into more personal jibes against you M.OGDEN, it's obviously not worth discussing the subject with you.
'Move on!'
Won't happen. Not until wankers like Shane Atkinson stop costing ME money. M.OGDEN, you'll have to find some other person or forum to bait. I've tired of your weak arguments and no substance attacks. Go back to flame school and learn how to do it properly. | |
|  |  |   feek
join:2002-01-23 Philadelphia, PA | haha.. word | |
|  |   DaMaGeINC The Lan Man Premium join:2002-06-08 Greenville, SC clubs: | 500 a day? damm, thats alot of money from just spam. How it that possible? | |
|  |   Speedy8 Premium join:2002-08-22 Alliance, OH clubs: | Re: 500 a day? There's actually a lot of stupid people out there who buy the crap they sell. | |
|  |  |  jasonsmith Premium join:2001-02-11 | Re: 500 a day? That kid makes $15,000 tax-free a month. He may be scum but thats one wealthy little punk. | |
|   Motorhead5
join:2000-06-05 Woodside, NY
| Baloney I don't believe it. There's just too much money to be made. He'll bow his head and issue a few platitudes, but then he'll just keep moving his operation around, just like Ralsky said in his interview. Or does this guy not know that moving around is part of the spammers game (like Ralksy said in his interview)? Gimme a break. | |
|  |   koitsu Premium join:2002-07-16 Mountain View, CA
| Re: Baloney Couldn't have said it better myself.
99% of these guys continue their business under a different name, and will go to great lengths to claim false identities solely so they aren't caught.
Once a spammer, always a spammer. -- Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
|   Misu Hey, I Saw That Premium join:2000-11-28 Orlando, FL
| That guy isn't quitting the biz... ... and anyone who believes that is being duped.
Aww, poor baby is being spammed to death? Gee, I feel his pain. Really I do.
What's sick is that people actually called his house and would make obscene phone calls. That's taking it a little too far. I think subscribing him to tons of spam mailers was justified - give him a taste of what it must feel like to receive that much email a day. But call his house? That's a little psycho. -- The things I do for love... | |
|  |  |  |  |  Noodlin
join:2003-07-11 Monterey Park, CA
| Re: That guy isn't quitting the biz... Cant we see this man is suffering? He is a dateless wonder who dropped out of college, requires tons of Viagra and needs to refinance his mortgage badly!
Let us help him by constantly remind him of these problems over the phone at all hours of the night! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Misu Hey, I Saw That Premium join:2000-11-28 Orlando, FL
| Spreading someone's contact information whether it be over the internet, without their permission, could be considered a method of stalking, especially if people started using the information to do crazy things like make obscene phone calls.
Spammers fill up your email box. They're not calling your house at 3am and scaring your children, and they're not spreading your personal contact information (like your telephone number) and encouraging weirdos to use it. Although spammers are an annoyance and do count for something like 50% of all web traffic, it does not justify crossing the line as some people have. To rationalize it out by saying spammers do what they do and know they're annoying so maybe if they got a little bit of fear put into them, they'll stop - that's wrong. Them being annoying doesn't justify anyone to make them fear for their or their children's safety, and it doesn't justify stalking them by making obscene phone calls. And anyone who sits there and uses the information being put out and calls a spammer's house at 3am is crossing that line and the spammer might have the right to file stalking charges against them. -- The things I do for love... | |
|  |  |   NOVA_Guy Obama- Commander in Thief Premium join:2002-03-05
·VOIPo
| Re: That guy isn't quitting the biz... If putting someone's telephone number and address on the web is stalking, then Verizon ought to stop supporting their www.superpages.com site immediately. 
Actually taking some actions (i.e. throwing a brick through the guy's window, peering into his windows after dark, or actually making threats on the phone) is wrong indeed-- I don't think there are too many that would dispute this.
However, making phone calls to him late at night (OK, maybe 3am is a bit much, but 10pm, 11pm, 1am are OK in my book) is OK. And I'd also say that using some of the same words to him (and his children) on the phone that he uses in his penile enlargement spam messages is appropriate as well. Perhaps if all spammers got the living sh*t harassed out of them they would think twice before becoming spammers in the first place.
Now, would I do this kind of stuff to someone myself? No. It's simply not worth my time. When I get spam, I just hit the delete key and go on (unless it is a particularly annoying spam, then I may try to track down the IP it came from and complain). However, I would gladly praise someone who went out of their way to make a spammer's life miserable. -- Cox cable: the hallmark questionable business practices and lousy cable service! | |
|  |  |   Gryph
@edu.au
| It is nowadays next to impossible to hide your identity.
Shane Atkinson (lives in Christchurch and could be contacted here maybe: 064211252557) had His identity revealed in a simple manner. His name was available.
A combination of Whitepages searches and whois searches on the domain names He promotes was all the sleuthing needed. Anyone could have taken the time to search out His details.
Spammers cost me time and money. They offend my older friends and relatives. They *knowingly* send offensive viual material to children. They steal from you and me and you think posting their contact details is wrong? I want them to stop spamming me. How do I go about stopping them? I can't 'unsubscribe' for obvious reasons. I have no way of contacting those that send me spamm. I now have a contact number and address where I can direct my requests. If my urge to request to be unsubscribed comes at 3am, then so be it. I know Mr Atkinson wasn't too concerned at what time His spam was being posted to my inbox, causing me monetory loss.
'...Spammers fill up your email box. They're not calling your house at 3am and scaring your children,...'
My daughter would probably be a little scared receiving an e-mail with a picture of a naked woman in it saying that she wants to eat someone.
'...and they're not spreading your personal contact information (like your telephone number) and encouraging weirdos to use it...'
No, but they are personally contacting me with information I DO NOT WANT.
'...Although spammers are an annoyance and do count for something like 50% of all web traffic, it does not justify crossing the line as some people have...'
I don't see it as crossing the line. Death threats are, but phoning a spammer at 3am to explain that you are tired of receiving Viagra offers because my Penis works quite fine thankyou, is justified.
'...To rationalize it out by saying spammers do what they do and know they're annoying so maybe if they got a little bit of fear put into them, they'll stop - that's wrong...'
In some cases the Law says, 'do this and you're going to go to jail'. That throws a little fear into people. I will happily phone a spammer at three in the morning and abuse him/her for spamming me. I'd even set the alarm to make sure I was awake.
'...Them being annoying doesn't justify anyone to make them fear for their or their children's safety, and it doesn't justify stalking them by making obscene phone calls...'
First point I agree with you. Death threats etc are uncalled for. However, I disagree with the obscene phone call thing. Shane can e-mail me unsolicited. Why can't I phone Him unsolicited and ask him to stop spamming me (in any manner I see fit)? Remeber, this guy is sending offensive material to children. Isn't that just as bad as abusing Him on th ephone? Or worse?
'...And anyone who sits there and uses the information being put out and calls a spammer's house at 3am is crossing that line and the spammer might have the right to file stalking charges against them...'
That depends on how many times the person phones the spammer I'd suggest. I could quite legally phone him *every* night at 7:30pm offering Him Viagra and it would be a simple marketing call, not stalking or harrassment. I could even change the product each night if need be...."wanna buy some Lego Shane? Wanna buy some Chook Poo Shane? Wanna buy a penis shrinker for the one on your head Mr Atkinson?
Spammers are a pain in the butt and are creating a major pain for ISPs and Netizens. Please don't offer them ssympathy. If someone continually (on a daily basis) phoned you trying to sell you a breast enlargement, or dropped pamphlets in your snail mail box offering Viagra EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK, you'd get a little pissed too I believe. E-mail is the same (yes, it is). It's a communication medium. If Shane wants to pay me $60 an hour to read His spam, then I'll be happy to do so. | |
|  |  |   Nec3f Premium join:2001-04-16 Cudahy, WI
| said by Misu :
Spammers fill up your email box. They're not calling your house at 3am and scaring your children, and they're not spreading your personal contact information (like your telephone number) and encouraging weirdos to use it.
Actually, isn't that EXACTLY what they're doing. Half the spam in my box already has my name in the Subject line, I can only assume they have my address and phone number and probably one of my credit card numbers. And I'm pretty sure they don't keep it to themselves, they sell it to the next guy. (Actually selling IT isn't quite right, they sell a copy of the info, and keep one for themselves, that way I get twice as much garbage) | |
|   Notorious
join:2001-03-30 Brooklyn, NY clubs:  | Funny What's funny is hearing how "shocked" and "outraged" these guys are when they get a taste of their own medicine. Kinda like someone feels when their 12 year old daughter receives hard-core porn in their inbox 200 times a day? | |
|  |   asdfdfdf
@xtraport.net
| Re: Funny That's an important point. Much of spam is a violation of others peoples children as well.
Still, putting them on lists to get spammed is one thing. Calling them at home with obscene and, one can assume, threatening calls is a whole other level of invasion.
No one deserves to have their innocent children and family violated like this. I can imagine how frightening it would be to have many abusive calls from strangers. Spam doesn't begin to approach this level. People need to get a grip on themselves. The kind of insane hatred that people whip themselves into over spam is absurd. | |
|  |  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
 |  |  EAP
join:2000-01-15 Lafayette Hill, PA
| How to Stop Spam . . . If you think about it, the only reason spam exists is because of the morons that actually buy (or respond to) products that come to them via spam.
If no one bought such products or responded to the emails, they would cease.
Why isn't there a massive campaign to teach the idiots and morons out there to not respond to ANY unsolicited commercial emails.
If they want the product, just get in another way -- but not via email (or by going to the website via the email link).
Lets educate the masses, and the spam dies.
Personally I do NOT know one person who has bought or responded to anything via unsolicited email?
Do you? Have any of you responded to such emails?
| |
|  |   ShadowMastr Master Of All Shadows
join:2001-09-01 Fort Pierce, FL | Re: How to Stop Spam . . .
What's funny is the emails you get for programs to.... STOP SPAM! And they actually expect us to go there and buy them..... good grief....... -- Walk the Way of The Phoenix, Fire, Walk with Me. | |
|  |  wentlanc You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH
| said by EAP : Why isn't there a massive campaign to teach the idiots and morons out there to not respond to ANY unsolicited commercial emails.
A friend of mine once said, "You can't fix dumb."
puritan | |
|   Wills
join:2001-01-03 Port Charlotte, FL | Live by the sword... He's been subscribed to a gay dating service mailing list.
HA HA HA HA HA HA. | |
|   tmccann11 Who, Me? Premium join:2001-06-10 Bayonne, NJ clubs: | Yeah Right! And I'm sure he just decided to quit spamming. LoL | |
|   DenverDialup
join:2003-06-06 Littleton, CO clubs:
| Another idiot bites the dust. Hopefully. quote: He does not understand why anti-spammers become so worked up.
"Just delete them."
Great line, idiot. I guess that now you see how much it sucks to get spam, you've reconsidered that belief.
I just love watching these assholes get a taste of their own medicine. -- "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook | |
|  |   Unit649 I B U, Who U B? Premium join:2000-01-22 Stockton, CA
·Comcast
| Internet Speed Its funny too that spammers don't seem to care that those mass mailings they send out daily cause the internet to be slower-if you got rid of spam alone the internet would be so much faster its not even funny.
I highly doubt that the stuff occuring with this guy will cause any other spammers to cease. If he could afford to pay a kid $500 a day to assist him, he should be able to afford taking precautions to ensure his personal information doesn't get out-or to setup a few "fronts" or mail drops that he can register all of his stuff through and take the trail off of himself.
And you would think a person making that kind of money would be smart enough to pay the $2 or whatever it is a month to have an unlisted number. Course, hes a spammer, and he thinks what he is doing is right-so I guess 'intelligence' wouldn't be a strong thing..... -- U ::::Founder, ForeverChat IRC Network:::: »www.foreverchat.net | |
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