 
ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
 ·AT&T Southwest
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Fat pipes -- not Fat Taxes The Universal Service Fund might actually be an impediment to getting Fiber To The Home (FTTH). How? Most Schools have T-1 or better lines now. That bandwidth is mostly wasted outside of school hours.
The schools could could actually make money reselling that bandwidth to local FTTH overbuilders and ISP's -- unless they got their bandwidth with USF funds. It's illegal to resell bandwidth purchased with USF money (in Texas at least).
Why can't we taxpayers stipulate that private broadband providers be able to buy bandwidth from city ISD's to replace any USF funds -- where demand exists? | |
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 | Tom Zachman
join:2002-12-01
Dodge City, KS
| Re: Fat pipes -- not Fat Taxes Good idea...I always read your posts /wipes brown stain off nose\ (just kidding)
Too bad the legislators don't have a clue what their connectivity is and where it comes from...
Who wants to setup a website. www.telecommunications.splained.2.congressional.dummies.gov | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Just Another Way to Milk the Cows Just an FYI: We should have an interview with Bruce Kushnick (teletruth founder) up sometime this week..... | |
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| systems2000
What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah
join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace |
Is anyone else having trouble reaching this site? | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| Re: Just Another Way to Milk the Cows said by systems2000  :
Is anyone else having trouble reaching this site?
If you are referring to the Teletruth site, then no. Maybe you're just experiencing regular net traffic or some kind of screw up on the ISPs side of the network. I encounter that kind of nuisance often with DSLextreme crap.
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A good scapegoat is almost as good as a solution.»www.digitalconsumer.org | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA | Moooo, Moooo, Moooo, etc. | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
|  End the USF?!?
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aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA |  Re: End the USF?!?
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.:|:. Starband 360 ~ W2KAS ~ DLINK DI-714P+ ~ XPro ~ XPro | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | Re: End the USF?!? LOL I did it 4 a reference! | |
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aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA |  Re: End the USF?!?
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.:|:. Starband 360 ~ W2KAS ~ DLINK DI-714P+ ~ XPro ~ XPro | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | Re: End the USF?!? tx, still a newbie at this | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| I say Since it is more costly to wire rural areas, and we all pay for them because of that. . . Then they should have a Universal Housing Fund because real-estate is more costly in metropolitan areas. Let the bumkins help pay for my housing.
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | Re: I say good luck trying to get this to pass! | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: I say The problem is, it's already passed. The enabling legislation is in place, and all it takes is 3 of the 5 people at the FCC to agree to impose it.
Now look at it this way: If you were a bureaucratic functionary in the government, at a likely high-water mark for your career, and your staff told you that if you vote "yes" on this proposal, you'll have several extra billion dollars to play with and make some of your (ersatz) friends happy, what are you going to do?
Yes--this is the sad state of affairs our government has been reduced to.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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| | | Tom Zachman
join:2002-12-01
Dodge City, KS
| Re: I say It's corporate welfare....
The benefits are very visible in areas served by Rural Telcos. The benefits are invisible to none in rural areas underserved by the RBOCs.
Note to eddy whitacre: Your company sucks wind in the rural markets in Kansas. | |
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i5050MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
edited
| From the FCC Website at »www.fcc.gov/wcb/universal_service/
The goals of Universal Service, as mandated by the 1996 Act, are to promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates; increase access to advanced telecommunications services throughout the Nation; advance the availability of such services to all consumers, including those in low income, rural, insular, and high cost areas at rates that are reasonably comparable to those charged in urban areas. In addition, the 1996 Act states that all providers of telecommunications services should contribute to Federal universal service in some equitable and nondiscriminatory manner; there should be specific, predictable, and sufficient Federal and State mechanisms to preserve and advance universal service; all schools, classrooms, health care providers, and libraries should, generally, have access to advanced telecommunications services; and finally, that the Federal-State Joint Board and the Commission should determine those other principles that, consistent with the 1996 Act, are necessary to protect the public interest.
That paragraph sure sounds nice but last time I checked on ISDN prices it would cost approx $300 to install and $180/mo in recurring fees, ISP not included. Hardly what I call "just, reasonable, or affordable". I don't know where all that USF money is going but its not helping this "bumkin".
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The whole truth and nothing but the truth at »www.teletruth.org
[text was edited by author 2003-06-10 16:07:35] | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: I say I don't think WorldCom was ever a recipient of USF monies while Ebbers was there. They didn't go into the areas USF supports.
Calvoiper
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aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
| said by i5050MbSoon :
at rates that are reasonably comparable to those charged in urban areas.
There's the loophole - Charge the same for it everywhere...
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.:|:. Starband 360 ~ W2KAS ~ DLINK DI-714P+ ~ XPro ~ XPro | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | Re: I say ya, Whats Reasonable??? The gov has a hard time filling in that blank! | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
edited
| Re: I say Not only that but as Californians pay $2.30-$2.60/gal during the summer for gasoline, how about a USF so we pay the same at the South East? How about a USF for electricity and water rates? No reason why one person should pay $40/mo and another pay $10 for monthly sewer rates. How about a USF that makes freight rates with UPS, Fedex and Airborne flat versus distance based...seeing as in telecom the actual cost of delivery is to be ignored and absorbed by everyone else. How about a USF that builds airports everywhere since everyone should be entitled to fair and just air fares.
Hell, let's just have a 100% tax and have daddy government hand out what we get like Smurfberries.
People who move into the middle of nowhere know what they're getting into. If you want or need certain services then you should think about that when you choose a place to reside.
Don't move to the moon then bitch that you aren't getting cable internet.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-10 18:29:59] | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
| Re: I say not sure, but u do pay it. In az its called HURF highway user fund. so again ur paying oliphant!! Nad why cant i get my net on the moon???
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Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| My point is that there are trade-offs as to where you live. In the city, you get close access to work, a night life, and of course, less-expensive broadband. But you also get smog, noise, and a high cost of living. In the country, you get nature, scenery, and a quiet life. But you also have to drive ten miles to the store and pay higher prices for broadband. How about we start a fund to help subsidize country people's gasoline bill since they have to drive further to the store?
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: I say Uh, actually, you'll find that urban, not rural, folks have longer average commutes....
Calvoiper
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA | Re: I say Perhaps, but the point is the same. | |
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| | | | dirtcyclr
join:2003-06-13
Montana
| Re: I say --> Another perspective!said by calvoiper :
Uh, actually, you'll find that urban, not rural, folks have longer average commutes....
Calvoiper
Urban commutes may be longer timewise, but not even close in mileage! I've lived under both circumstances (CA Bay Area vs. Eastern Montana). Once again, this is a decision that you have to make based on what you want out of life... I agree that the government should not play a role in evening out what you see as being unfair cost of living (i.e. gas prices and housing costs), economics should control that.
The USF is not about controlling prices, but rather providing a financial avenue for equal opportunity. I think "Americans" should have an opportunity to have access to basic utilities such as telephone, electricity, etc. Technologies such as fiber optics can make it all possible, but "big business" wouldn't even think of doing such a thing because the returns are not in their favor!
It costs over 10 times the national average per local loop to provide POTS where I live, so without USF it would be completely impossible for my co-op to even provide telephone service, let alone any "advanced telecommunications" services such as DSL (which i do have by the way).
I would also like to add that there are now rural areas such as mine that actually have better broadband services than some urban areas. This is not because Universal Service Funds have been misplaced, it is because my services are provided by a smaller company/co-op that believes in offering quality services with a personal touch. The whole USF issue centers around combatting greed and the hunger for power/control, it makes everyone on both sides of the fence unhappy at times. | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| Fair enough (even with the leftist code words, e.g., "big business," "greed", etc.  ). But I ax, is there some point where we can acknowledge that wiring is done and discontinue the tax? I hear that we are still paying some charge that was levied on phone bills in the 1900s to help pay for the Spanish-American War (I can find documentation but too lazy right now). The trouble with these programs and taxes is that they never end (while we put sunset provisions on tax relief). Al Gore's tax to wire schools is case in point —they are almost all wired now, will the tax end?
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA | Re: I say --> Another perspective! The Spanish-American war tax is also known as the excise tax. The tax will never end because in this talk about greed, there is no more greedy entity than the Federal government. | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| Besides what in the heck does the 1996 Telecommunications Act have to do with Cable? Last time I looked the Cable TV/ISP providers aren't or haven't ever been a Telco at all. So, FCC (Michael Powell) Keep Your Hands off of Cable, It's not Telephone related service without voice capability and ethernet isn't a phone technology at all and neither is Cable TV service for that matter.
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Charter Pipeline rules in Hesperia, CA, Verizon sucks..... | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
| Re: I say the telecom act has the power to regulate all forms of communicatins, it was that large of a bill! Its also what allowed the cable services that we have today
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If there is any realistic deterrent to marriage, it's the fact that you can't afford divorce. -- Jack Nicholson | |
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| | | mrs213
join:2002-05-25
Pittsburgh, PA
| That was terribly lucid.
The FCC needs jurisdiction over cable services, if they're going to compete in the same space/serve the same functions as Our Friends the Phone Comp'nies. The FCC is not just about phone: it's about communications (see the acronym for more information). If they can regulate broadcast radio and TV, cable is a simple leap.
Don't let blind anger screw up your logic. I'm not sure I like Powell very much either, but hey. | |
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| Tom Zachman
join:2002-12-01
Dodge City, KS
| From your link to a 5 year old Walter E. Williams comment: quote:
benefits should at least equal costs.
Should you ever need to communicate to us bumkins, write us a letter. Should you ever want us to come visit you, we'll gladly move into your subsidized house for our stay. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: I say Actually, if I need to communicate with you, I'll just pick up the phone. After all, I am already paying for it.
Now, about that housing subsidy you think you're paying but I'm not getting, please send the money NOW.
Calvoiper
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: I say Although they do a terrible job, HUD is focused on the poor. USF, by comparison, supports the rural rich as well as the rural poor. Consider Jackson Hole, etc.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
| USF is not a tax AFAIK, a federal tax can only be instituted by the Congress only!
USF is a "fund" that is mandated by FCC to provide local phone service to the poor and also to fund the public library Internet systems. It was never intended to be collected from the end user but the general practice is that telco pass it down to the consumer.
Contrary to the belief, FCC does not collect these funds. The funds collected stay with the company (telco) and telco was supposed to take money from this fund in exchange for the service it is providing to the poor and the libraries etc. Who knows what else the telco is doing with the money (perhaps feeding a number of lobbiests, politicians etc.) | |
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DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
| Re: USF is not a tax A Tax is collected by the US Treasury. USF is not a tax (technically) and is collected by the Telco and money stays with the Telco. There is little oversight by the FCC on the collected money and much less by the Congress. The USF is the dream fund for the Telcos and telcos represent it as "tax" because it is convenient to do so on their end because otherwise people would object. Telecom act of 1996 required setting aside funds from Telcos. Telecom act of 1996 did not mandate the collection of these funds from the end user. Passing is as tax is actually illegal. It would be taxation without representation. | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
| Re: USF is not a tax Ya I get what ur saying dr, know that the say its a tax so u don’t call them about it. My point was that when the farmers called there congress men to get the concession, congress passed it. So in my mind its a Proxy tax, everyone knew that it'd be passed on to us. The oversight I meant is that congress can an overturn any ruling the FCC makes. After all the FCC is part of the EXE. branch and congress sets the laws that they use to make there rules1
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| Yeah, like the employers pay 7.65% (somewhere around there) of the social security tax and we pay the other 7.65% (ditto). The effect of it is as if we pay the whole amount because the eeevil business just shifts the burden to us by reducing benefits in some way. Now I don't know the specifics of this fund, but I would guess there is some accountability as to how it is spent. So when the eeevil phone company keeps the money, but doesn't have the choice as to how it is spent, it is just like a tax which is why it shows up on our phone bills.
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»www.gmu.edu/departments/economic···any.html | |
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aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA | Re: USF is not a tax | |
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
| It's not just cable their after According to this post on politechbot, the telcos are pushing to have ISP's pay directly in to the fund too. Since the ISP's already pay the USF as customers of the telcos, if this push is successful they will be paying into the fund twice and many will end up passing along this additional cost to their customers. »www.politechbot.com/p-04817.html | |
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