 soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Whine and Complain I know some people will whine and complain but this offer is more than fair, especially for the price. RR even went the extra mile of detailing for some of you who like to Knitpick. The usage they gave is well with reason. I don't wanna hear stupid complaints about pop ups and spam, they get no where near 40 gigs a month. | |
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| | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Whine and Complain Everyone has the right to post, but everytime something about bandwidth usage comes some says something idiotic like, "Well if they gonna put bandwidth caps on me they better stop me from receiveing pop ups." or my favorite "Then they better stop spam from coming to my mail box." PopUp ads are annoying but they're not bandwidth killers unless you're real heavy into porn pop up pages. And ask for spam unless you just download all your spam it's a non issue. Some people try to make something from nothing. | |
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murdok6100
Avatar. Get It, Avatar?
join:2002-06-20
| Re: Whine and Complain said by soothsayer15  :
Everyone has the right to post, but everytime something about bandwidth usage comes some says something idiotic like, "Well if they gonna put bandwidth caps on me they better stop me from receiveing pop ups." or my favorite "Then they better stop spam from coming to my mail box." PopUp ads are annoying but they're not bandwidth killers unless you're real heavy into porn pop up pages. And ask for spam unless you just download all your spam it's a non issue. Some people try to make something from nothing.
While I agree that this offer is more than reasonable, I still have to say that what it all boils down to is that people will pay to receive spam.
It may only be in the fractions of a cent, but the idea of paying for something one hates is unsettling, no matter how minute it may seem.
At least thats why I think people have the 'OL "Then they better stop spam from coming to my mail box." attitude.
I don't share that view, but I could "possibly" see where some folks are coming from.
murdok610 | |
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wdoerr
join:2001-04-20
Chicago, IL | Am I allowed to complain about packet retransmits? If I'm getting 30% - 50% retransmits, should I be paying additional fees?
I don't think so.
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wdoerr | |
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GTaylor
Premium
join:2002-12-14
Frisco, TX
clubs: | Isn't this the same ISP thats considered "Very spam friendly"?
Glad to see where their priorities are. | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Fine, you have you point.
But, what about a lower tier for those who don't use it as much such as Joe Email and Sally Spreadsheet? | |
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GTaylor
Premium
join:2002-12-14
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| Re: Whine and Complain Joe E-mail and Sally Spreadsheet do have a lower tier. It's called dial-up.
What this boils down to is what's RR's angle: To remove users who use far too much bandwidth? Or a PR attempt to shame high-bandwidth users in an attempt to restrict access, thereby increasing profits.
Myself, I'd exceed the 15 gig (But not Cox's 30 gig) policy, but I still remember the Bells pulling a similiar stunt in 1997 by restricting the hours on-line per month at 150, hence why I find this trend very disturbing. | |
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Supafly
Premium
join:2000-07-15
Lancaster, CA
| The only thing that annoys me at this point is that if I pay more for the higher tier, I should expect unlimited transfer.
I have no problems paying for tiered service, I actually encourage it, I would much rather have my sister pay 19.95 for her broadband connection since she only checks her mail and views some trailers online, while I would gladly pay 79.95 for my bandwidth hogging, movie, mp3 and emulation downloading ass, but with the understanding that I don't have any download caps (or at least a little more realistic ones).
In the end of the month, the ISP will still makes their $50/month average for user. The only potential issue I see with this is that not everyone will play/play fair. | |
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| malium
join:2003-01-21
Kernersville, NC
| A more relevant point mentioned elsewhere in a related thread though makes note of the constant scanning and probing of cable modem IPs by folks looking to abuse these, viruses, etc. A few years ago data lights on cable modes didn't blink constantly if you weren't active online, now they do - and this is surely being measured too.
The things that bother me about this are - one, RoadRunner does not price evenly across the US to all affiliates, it's set on a local level, so some places you get more or less bandwidth, pay more or less a month, or get more than one IP in a basic account. My letter said $15 for each 5 gigs over 15, and the 40 gig account was $99 not $79. Yes, it's a reasonable service, but if you are going to penalize people you should offer tools so they can monitor usage.
Also, as for bitching, who are you or anyone else to tell me what is reasonable? What was reasonable 4 years ago when I worked at RoadRunner is different now that AOL is pushing broadband content, now that movies are available online from legit sources, now that music can be downloaded legally from many sources. Remember that quote from Bill Gates about 64K being all a PC would ever need? My first PC had a 10 MEG hard drive. It's ironic that AOL wants to push more content to us but their company TWC wants to charge more if you use it. Hmmm. Guess you'll have to watch those movies on demand on digital cable instead. This isn't about abuse, it's about profit and tiered billing structures - the letter was a clear intimidation to get me to pay more or force me to a business class account. Or to moderate my internet usage.
Think banks and the way they nickel and dime you, making hundreds a year off the average account that lets them earn interest on your money. Think of the phone company billing by the minute or billing more to call 40 miles from here and it does for me to call Europe. People have every right to bitch and whine about a contract suddenly being changed on them. Imagine if your unlimited cell phone minutes suddenly changed to 100 minutes a month next month and charged you $1 a minute over that. A problem is that cable companies have virtual monopolies in most markets - you can't go elsewhere, and DSL isn't universally available to all locations served by cable. This is why the same company can and does price differently in different markets - and worse, the pricing is also often driven by collusion with your local city, town or county by franchise agreements with cable companies - guaranteeing them exclusive access to you as a customer, and your government probably skims profits (taxes or otherwise) off the price too. But with cable modems most of it falls outside the TV franchise deals and is pure profit for the cable company - the modem is paid off in a few months and the investments in the infrastructure are probably written off at a corporate level.
Yes, I've downloaded excessively, but until recent announcements the account was stated as unlimited internet access and now I'm told I can only use 1/10th of the level of service I used last month or pay extreme fines for extra traffic. It reminds me of the early web hosting models that made some ISPs rich off porn hosting when stolen passwords would skyrocket the gigs of traffic into thousands of dollars of excess hosting traffic and drive the sites out of business.
I'd be very curious what level of traffic would show on a test modem only connected to a PC with no traffic, but probed constantly as RoadRunner IP addresses are. Probably not over 15 gigs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was gigs of unsolicited traffic a month.
Personally the letter was enough to make me quit RoadRunner and return the modem. AOL assured me there were no limits there even though it's on the same Time Warner pipes and my new modem came with no TOS from TWC. So I don't think the same as Earthlink users being bound by TWC matters on AOL, and I'm still waiting to hear if anyone on Earthlink got one of these letters from TWC. But the AOL client seems to need to be running on any PC to get online, even behind a router, which is annoying. I'd like to get a definitive answer as to whether TWC is threatening Earthlink users with the same fees, and whether Earthlink uses or requires a proprietary client and can work effective with a home LAN and router without custom software on each PC always logged in. | |
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| soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX | Re: $79.95 At rates based off today 50.9 pounds. Current rate is $1.57 dollars equal one british pound. | |
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dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO | 79.99 US Dollar = 50.93931 British Pound | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Kansas City, MO
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: $79.95 and you wouldnt be able to do much with the speed.
TW/AOL have a tremendous nationwide network, so I KNOW this isnt because of bandwidth costs. Peers would pay them so they can access those 20+ million customers. I guess i'll be switching to DSL...
As for saying what I should download, just because I dont just download email and I actually transfer files doesnt mean I shouldnt use the internet/broadband. I mean, if I cant use it then why the hell do they offer it? I guess me downloading isos, patches for my games, etc.. is way too much of a burden for their little network.
How about they charge for UPLOADS instead of downloads.. that wouldnt piss me off a bit.
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UMKC:15051/20689 kbps RoadRunner:2092/369 kbps | |
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Julio
Bachatero y Que?
Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
clubs: | not in my city they sure as hell better not try this in New York City cause we wont take this. They better hope i dont get one of those letters or else i will go w/ OOL or Cablevision IO cable or RCN. | |
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Pizz
Hi
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: not in my city i agree with you, if RR sent me a letter like that i would cancel all my services, i pay roughly 3 DTVs which have dbest and roadrunner, which is around 200ish. I can get DSL if need be and get DishTV or DirectTV.
what people dont seem to understand is, when you signed up for the service they said "UNLIMITED INTERNET" now they're really just saying "its unlimited to get to the internet, but what you do with it, it's metered" in a round about way. i could of put it better but im tired and the brain doesnt want to give a great example haha!
but seriously only reason why RR would do this is because of AOL loses. i wouldnt be surprised if RR would increase the prices now. | |
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Orwell 1984
@rr.com | Of course you wont ever get that letter. You have other alternatives.They will only screw the customers in areas without competition. | |
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UltimateTech
join:2002-03-19
Newberry Springs, CA | Woah 151 Gigs a month?!? damn thats a lot!  | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL | err ah... so if you max out this connection for a month it only comes down to an affordable $1943.95/mo o_O
somone correct me if my math is wrong | |
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warcorp
join:2000-09-19
Novi, MI
clubs: | Re: err Flecom, yeah, thats about right...100% line saturation for 30days on a 3mbit line is ~995GB - 40GB in plan=955GB
995/5*10+79.95= $1989.95
Thats 995GB / 5GB @ 10$ per + monthly fee... | |
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| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs: | Re: err id be curious to see the upload stats a bit more. any charges for upping over so much if so i see alot of billing issues for the people who like thier mp3 p2p stuff and leave it on alot. | |
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davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC | Which is actually what you'd pay for 2 T1s to get the same service. So, according to market pricing, this is right in line.
- Davoice | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL | Re: err no, not by a long shot...
you can get a full T1 line with all local loop charges for $400~500
and a T1 line is MUCH more reliable than a cable connection any day | |
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Sarge_0321
join:2002-06-27
San Diego, CA
| What a Joke! All that more quickly that you can achieve the CAP. What a load of crap? No wonder why 42% of Americans don't give a rat's ass!
And for what they listed that you can do on "regular" service. Can you accomplish ALL of those on the reg service? OR just one? Like send all that e-mail and listen to 133 hrs of music. OR just take your pick? | |
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mikepd
Discovery
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-26
New Port Richey, FL
clubs: | Well, all I can say is those that are in OOL's service area better hope Dolan doesn't sell to Time-Warner as has been mentioned on the front page here!
»Time Warner Cablevision?
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Always Reach Beyond Your Grasp | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Well, all I can say is those that are in OOL's OOL'ers are already getting screwed.
upload is capped to 150kbps [yet they dont tell you how much triggers it]
email = joke
news = bigger joke.
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maybe if aol/tw bought them theyd fix some of the issues.
decent download speed is only one point to an isp. when your other services are in shoddy shape that brings your isp down in ratings. at least they dont have byte caps [yet] on their downloads.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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blestina
join:2001-03-16
Berkeley, IL |  This is CRAP!!
CAPS are CRAP and so are TIERS!!!
Wake up, this is a load of SHIT!!!
We are already paying tooooo muchhhhhh for tooooo litttttttle... | |
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| dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA |  Re: This is CRAP!!
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Orwell 1984
@rr.com | Re: This is CRAP!! It is theoretically possible.The math works out if you actually get 56k and keep it saturated at least 90%. | |
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scooby
Premium
join:2001-05-01
Schaumburg, IL
| Re: This is CRAP!! said by Orwell 1984:
It is theoretically possible.The math works out if you actually get 56k and keep it saturated at least 90%.
At 53k you'd be able to pull about 15.5gigabytes per month but then that most definitely would not qualify as residential use and most isps kick you off every 8 hours or so. | |
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dantest24
join:2003-01-21
Charlotte, NC | If people unite and cancel their account they would forget all about this tier crap. I will definitely cancel my account if they ever try this. I like my internet but, I don't need it that bad. | |
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BandWhat
@mindspring.n
thumbs down from:
parasonic
| Re: If people unite and cancel their account Of course the only people that are exceeding these limits are either downloading illegal music/movies or complete and total porn freaks. | |
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raulgarza
join:2000-05-02
Union City, NJ | Re: If people unite and cancel their account of course those are the only people that go over the caps, since video conferencing every day with my family in texas is not a bandwith hog, then my 5yr daugther must be downloading mp3s/porn.
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Optimum Rules!!! | |
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| | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: err carefull don't feed the trolls especially those that don't register. they make nothing of a point.
and for his opinion of that i go over the 40 gig a month just doing linux coding and server monitoring easily plus sending code snippets all over the net easily puts me over it. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: If people unite and cancel their account you are obviously doing video conferencing in a low quality postage stamp sized window. or you're capped at 150kbps up.
that happened to a friend of mine on OOL :/
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Kip patterson
Premium
join:2000-10-23
Columbus, OH
| The Meaning of Unlimited If you want to talk about 47 ohm resistors, no one has an issue with what an ohm is because it is defined by international treaty.
"Unlimited" has no such definition.
If you read earlier TOS, etc from RR you will see that they have always had a restriction on the amount of data that can be transferred. It was written in pretty ambiguous language, but it was always there. If you understand the economics of the business you surely understand that RR cannot sell 151 gigabytes for $44.95, and never intended to.
All RR has done is define what is too much usage, for which I applaud them. The same thing that colo's and hosting houses have done for years. The same thing that suppliers of T1's, DS3's, OC-12's do, including the firms that supply the bandwidth to RR. | |
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See 17 replies to this post |
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SoulStorm
Don'T Think, Drink
join:2003-01-27
Lincoln, NE
edited
| Damn That's where I live! Guess I better pay more attention to what I do online. Damn... I hate having to worry about how much data I have thrown around every time I want to do something online. Yeah 15 GB is a lot, but I never had to worry about a monthly cap before.
Hell, the lowest business class tier is less and doesn't have restrictions like this. Yeah, it's slower, but at least you aren't capped per month!
[text was edited by author 2003-04-18 17:05:49] | |
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dmoisan
join:2003-03-25
Salem, MA
| How do you meter bandwidth at your house? I just came to DSL from a dial-up account that let me have 100 hours a month without an extra charge. I used utilities and scripts to estimate my usage so as not to go over (and let me have a bandwidth-fest at the end of the month to use up my hours!)
I'm on DSL now via a SOHO router, and I have no bandwidth stats. My router's firmware doesn't have such a function, and so far as I know, none of the cheap routers that Joe Quake would use have these stats ("15G received in last 30 days").
More to the point, my ISP (VZ) doesn't have stats to the end user either. If an ISP is going to whine about bandwidth, it should be able to give the user some stats via the same page that he or she maintains the account at.
No fair for the ISP to run into service problems and then pull something out of its hat to beat over the user's head. Better for Joe Quake to see that maybe he should put off that one extra warez ISO for a few weeks.
(I have the same complaint with VZ WRT web space bandwidth stats, but that's another thread.)
Take care,
Dave | |
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| jolted
join:2002-06-13
Beverly, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: How do you meter bandwidth at your house? Well its like ther cellular industry I suppose reneging on its free nights and weekends by playing with the definition of night and weekend, and capping it off in some cases... I think in general I could understand some caps but they should be high and the user should be made aware of them.. A great way to eat a cap would be streaming audio for a month using your highspeed access for a background, or doing telecommuting with remote access software... and users should be made of aware of this beforehand.. and have websites and software to tell what their usage is.... unlimited service is going the way of the do-do and well all be paying per hour or per meg unfortunately, which in the end will ruin consumer interest in the internet...
-John | |
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| | dmoisan
join:2003-03-25
Salem, MA | Re: How do you meter bandwidth at your house? I checked; VZ will give me my online time but not my bandwidth used. My Personal Web Space is not metered at all (not surprising). | |
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scarney
Bbr Team Discovery - Bbr Team Rc5
Premium
join:2001-02-18
Madison, WI
clubs: | $ i would happily pay that amount for those numbers!. | |
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David
Last man standing
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:
·magicjack.com
·AT&T Midwest
| He was using " So that you are aware, over the past three months, your usage has averaged 151GB/month. Most recently, you consumed 94GB/month in march"
If 15 GB equals
3 million e-mails
133 hrs of internet radio
600 hrs @25MB per hour web surfing
3750 Mp3's
750 hrs of xbox
85,000 photos
100 hrs of streaming video
12-13 full length mpeg2 movies
151GB/month avg.
30 million e-mails
1,330 hrs of internet radio
6,000 hrs @ 25MB/hr web surfing
37,500 MP3's (NO I do not see the RIAA after this one!! LOL )
7,500 Hrs of Xbox
850,000 Photos
1000 hrs of streaming video
120-130 full length MPEG2 Videos.
The multiplier was 10 in case you are curious 
Holy cow, I am wondering who he was subleasing his pipe to??
Ya figure $60-90 a month for basic service and suppose he puts an average of 5 other joes on his line for all they can download for $20 a month time 5 people, he has more than made up his cost and he surfs for free!!
That has to be what he is doing... or something rather close..
If they quote the prices... (Estimated)
He would pay $79.95 for the 1st 40GB/Month
$10/5gb @ 111GB used= (22.2x10) $222.00
$301.95 a month, minus taxes and fees and the rest
Good god that is incredible...
Please note: if my numbers are inaccurate please do not flame!!, just advise that they are incorrect and please correct them..
Still any way you look at it that is an exorbent amount of bandwidth...
JMHT
Just my humble thought... 
--
I am always running around. Catch me if you can... The Hammer.. Year To Date Stats: Current weight: 339lbs, total loss: 245!! | |
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: He was using said by David :
"
Holy cow, I am wondering who he was subleasing his pipe to??
Ya figure $60-90 a month for basic service and suppose he puts an average of 5 other joes on his line for all they can download for $20 a month time 5 people, he has more than made up his cost and he surfs for free!!
That has to be what he is doing... or something rather close..
Nah, I'd bet 1/6 of a six pack that he was doing P2P, probably offering a handful of videos for download -- that can ensure a 100% utilization of UL bandwidth. | |
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David
Last man standing
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs: | Re: He was using I would take that bet, Me and the other guys were like "he has to have a file trading server somewhere..." | |
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| rhobrock
join:2003-04-19
Lincoln, NE
| said by David :
Ya figure $60-90 a month for basic service and suppose he puts an average of 5 other joes on his line for all they can download for $20 a month time 5 people, he has more than made up his cost and he surfs for free!!
That has to be what he is doing... or something rather close..
Nope. My letter stated I average 159 GB/month and I certainly don't do any subleasing. If you use newsgroups it's fairly easy to do that much.
A movie SVCD averages around 1.6 to 2.4 GBs, DivX films range from 700 to 1400 MBs, most CD images are around 800 MBs, and most TV shows are usually 400 MB (unless they're SVCDs). Getting 5 gigs of stuff a day off the thousands of usenet groups is VERY easy. | |
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pranky
join:2001-04-17
Astoria, NY
clubs:
| Do I get a refund You know if this whole cap thing was fair to the consumer I should be able to get a bandwidth credit if I dont reach the cap for that given month.
I really dont mind tiered service but I really really hate caps. I think all these broadband companies should get a copy of a webster's and look up the meaning of the word "Unlimited".
All I can say is, try this to me in NYC and see how fast I tell them to take their modem and shove it straight up their candy asses.
--
"All these thoughts they make no sense, I find bliss in ignorance"
Like Porn? Try Seti | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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Helen1
The Geek Is Back
join:2003-02-26
Topeka, KS
| I feel sorry for y'all
Just my two cents and that's all I can think of.
-Helen | |
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untroubled1
Redneck Dawg
Premium
join:2001-12-21
Omaha, NE
| Re: I feel sorry for y'all I don't know. Cox seems to work for me. If I read this right, it's 40GB TOTAL bandwidth a month. At 512 upload and 3000 down, you can use it pretty fast. Cox just got the ball rolling. Look for others to follow.
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Cox Business Services | |
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IcePirate123
join:2003-01-12
Columbus, OH
| Its seems they never learn! If all these companies want to continue doing business and not go totally bankrupt, I would suggest that they remember who the customer is! As I was told the first day of my first job (in the food service business), "No matter what you do remember that the customer is the one who signs your paycheck! Without the customer we have no reason to be here. No, the customer may not always be right, but they always have a right to be treated fairly and honestly. If not they will go somewhere else." This is what we need to remind all these companies/politicians of. WE ARE THE CUSTOMER! WE HAVE A VOICE! KEEP PUSHING US AND WE WILL USE IT! Its called where we get out broadband from/who we vote for! Let them cap my line, they won't get my money. Let the politician pass stupid laws, they won't get my vote. nuff said! | |
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| | RogueSlayer
join:2003-04-18
| Re: Its seems they never learn! Well said keyboard.
Also, does no one realize that the "unlimited" aspect refers to hours per month? A throw back to the age of hourly dial up. So yes, they do know the definition of "unlimited". However, it is unlimited access, not unlimited use.
As was mentioned before, it is no different than the cell phone industry. A small portion of all customers will always be put off by this but for the overwhelming majority, it will not affect them one bit. | |
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PLA
@rr.com
| Re: Its seems they never learn! [OT]
But the cell phone industry is changing, too. Sure, there are still the traditional providers like Verizon, AT&T, and Cingular with metered service. They offer huge network coverage and "free" LD on your plans.
But take a look at Cricket and Cellular South. Unlimited airtime minutes in the local calling area. Not just nights and weekends, but 24x7. Cricket throws in 500 min of LD. And both charge ~$40/mo. If all you need is local calling, it's the place to be. Several people I know (on-the-road all day types) are canceling their POTS and getting Cricket or CellSouth.
And these two carriers are having a huge impact on the traditional cellular carriers. It's driving them to make changes. For 6 years, I had Bellsouth Mobility and paid $69 for 600 local mins, no N/W, no LD, and the plan was static. Within 1 yr of the appearance of Cricket and CellSouth, the plan changes on Bellsouth were obvious. I now get 1300 min, nationwide, no roam, no LD, plus unlimited N/W with LD for the same $69.
As for RR, over a year ago there were hints and rumors that bandwidth caps were coming. Our local RR GM even indirectly stated it would happen. So far, not yet in Memphis. But RR has a monopoly in certain markets, including parts of Memphis. DSL is great, but the "Copper only" limitation puts huge chunks of Memphis unavailable because of the fiber optic feeders from the CO since Bellsouth opted to build fewer but larger CO facilities. This also puts many people OOL because they exceed the 15K cable/ft limit, too, even if their area is all copper.
Time Warner already lost my cable TV business because of the ridiculously high prices and crap channel lineup. If they pull some silly bandwidth capping here, I'll just put up a wireless link or rent a Bellsouth transport T-1 back to my office and ride my OC-48 the rest of the way. | |
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