When Unlimited....Isn'tEmusic customers hit glass ceiling, get booted ( old news - 11:54AM Friday Nov 08 2002) tags: Fileswapping · business When EMusic began, customers were thrilled by the concept of a legitimate music service and signed up in droves to download their favorite music. The company, who claims " unlimited high quality MP3's for as low as $9.99 per month" on the front page of their website, has apparently begun booting users who download too much, without notifying customers of the change or adjusting their "unlimited" advertising pitch. It started out well enough, with an award from PC Magazine, who called the service "convenient" and "slick". It also won the Editor's choice award over at CNet, who praised the company's "blissfully simple rules" and "liberal download policy". Users began to flock to the service believing they had found a real diamond among the shards of dirty glass that are most current on-line music providers. With the arrival of broadband, something apparently has gone sour in the land of musical bits, as customers are getting booted from the service by the handful. One disgruntled user we spoke to, who knew of at least twenty cancelled accounts personally, was given a generic cancellation notice that simply told him he had violated section 5.3 of the user agreement: 5.3 Because the Service is designed for personal sampling and use, you are not allowed to use any automated system for the selection or downloading of files. EMusic reserves the right to immediately and permanently terminate your access to the Service if EMusic believes that you are violating such limitation.But the users who are being booted from the service aren't using any tools to speed up downloads, they're being kicked from the service for what some are being told is a violation of the "spirit of the service" (AKA downloading too much). EMusic has made no public policy shifts, continues to advertise unlimited downloads, and continues to boot users who cross the invisible line they've drawn in the sand. The software reviews of the service at Cnet have become increasingly negative since the problems began, and if you examine only the negative impressions most of them carry the same message. " I too just received a threat from EMusic.com's Legal Department, even though I've adhered to both the letter and the spirit of their Subscription Agreement. I have downloaded a number of albums, all through their web site and Download Manager, but apparently there's a limit that triggers 1) a nasty e-mail threat, then 2) a cancellation of your service." According to one user we spoke to, attempts to contact the company about the cancellation have been ignored. When another user who had their service cancelled pointed out the hypocrisy of their actions and their false advertising, he received an e-mail from EMusic stating that: " The intent of EMusic has never been to enable customers to indiscriminately download massive numbers of songs. We designed EMusic as an interactive service to allow you to sample, discover and listen to music from our many label partners." The letter continues: " we have concluded that we cannot support customers who are downloading huge numbers of tracks that they cannot possibly ever listen to" and later urges the customer to " please use the service as it was intended to be used -- for sampling songs and albums and downloading numbers of tracks you can personally use and enjoy." No mention of the misleading advertising that touts "unlimited" downloads. No admission that the user may have never actually violated any portion of his user agreement. Users interested in on-line music services may be best served by avoiding the service until the company either clarifies their advertising, or realizes that offering "all you can eat", means you'll be playing host to some large and hungry individuals.
Related:- Britain Returns To 'Three Strikes' Plan
- Barry Manilow Highlights 'Three Strikes' Law Stupidity
- The "Death Of P2P" Is Relative, Possibly Wrong
- British Cops, Spies Oppose 'Three Strikes'
- BitTorrent Gets A Little Smarter
- Will 'Three Strikes' Come To The United States?
- One MPAA Complaint Closes Free Ohio Wi-Fi Network
- Verizon Working With RIAA On New Warning Letters
|
page: 1 · 2  |
 
Dave987
@suscom.net
| Wow what a great idea! Give customers what they want, and then take it away and cancel their account. What a great idea! Why haven't the other online music sellers tried this? After all, where are they gonna go? Online music sellers are after all THE ONLY way to get music online, so they can make all the rules (and tell no one) they want | |
|  | 
NOVA_Guy
Obama- Commander in Thief
Premium
join:2002-03-05
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Wow what a great idea! Well, I was going to subscribe to EMusic myself this weekend. I was also going to purchase subscriptions for my parents and two friends as holiday gifts (if that was possible) -- but now I won't even consider looking at it. So much for honest advertising practices.
Come on folks, UNLIMITED means UNLIMITED. I can provide a definition from Webster's if you like...
EMusic ought to keep in mind that they are not the only online source of music. Perhaps instead of purchasing my parents a subscription to EMusic, I'll download Kazaa Lite, Shareaza, and a few others and "hook them up" using a method that truly does allow for unlimited downloads...
Downloading copyrighted music on P2P (I refuse to call it "stealing") may be unacceptable when faced with the ability to get a legitimate copy from other sources online. But when those sources outright lie and push false advertising down our throats, the P2P networks become all the more acceptable and moral, IMHO. Given the choice between "stealing" music and being lied to by EMusic, I would opt for the former if I were looking for a source of online music.
It's stuff like this that will keep the P2P networks alive and well. Can't the music industry figure it out-- offer services at a reasonable price, and then keep your word and provide what the consumer paid for. That must be a very novel concept to some.
--
Live in Northern Virginia? Take a stand and fight for good service-- don't be a Cox Sucker! | |
| | | 
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI
| Re: Wow what a great idea! yes, there are others, but their policies are far more restrictive. I got about 1000 good albums from them, so I really can't complain about them--if we are arguing semantics here, they say unlimited HIGH Quality mp3's, and while 128 is ok, it is hardly high quality, but hey, it beats an encrypted one play .wma by about 1000X.
as for kazaa and the like, they can't beat the speeds of emusic or the "download manager" that organizes all downloads into album/artist subdirectories and names them just how you tell it to
[text was edited by author 2002-11-08 14:56:51] | |
| | | 
Cousin Dave
Trendsetter
Premium
join:2002-10-29
NN,VA
| unlimited
SYLLABICATION: un·lim·it·ed
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: n-lm-td KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence
ENOUGH SAID GEEZ!!! | |
| | | |
hvac_01
@66.168.x.x
 from:
some guy$ 
| Re: Wow what a great idea! I am not a member but just went to thier site.I happened to notice that it says, 'burn unlimited cd's' in addition to unlimited downloads.Now they wouldnt be suggesting that I....
after all the RIAA is doing to stop this?Why doesnt the RIAA object to 'unlimited downloads' in close proximity to 'burn unlimited cd's'? | |
| stirgeon
join:2002-07-29
San Jose, CA
|  Well deyamn...
I always recommended them to my friends. Guess that is over. FTP and eDonkey!!! | |
| |
some guy
@milwwi.ameritech
from:
some guy$
MxxCon
| Re: Well deyamn... here's what they sent me after i queued up and downloaded 200 albums in 3 days
"Dear EMusic Subscriber,
Over the past several weeks we have noticed unusual activity on your EMusic
account. Your account has been identified as having download activity far in
exceeding that of the overwhelming majority of subscribers.
Although EMusic's goal has been to help consumers discover, sample and
download a wide range of music for personal use and enjoyment, EMusic cannot
continue to operate as a legal source for indiscriminate downloading of
copyrighted sound recordings and musical compositions. Unlike other online
music subscription services, EMusic has gone to great lengths to provide an
open, easy-to-use service, for a reasonable price. Without regard to content
hosting, serving and administrative expenses, royalties payable to recording
artists and/or songwriters with respect to every downloaded track no longer
affords EMusic the luxury of taking these matters lightly.
In order to maintain EMusic's low price while providing a flexible and
compelling service, we must focus on limiting instances of service-abuse by
monitoring the site for unusual activity. Examples of service-abuses include,
but are not limited to, password sharing and use of automated systems to
download quantities of tracks far beyond one's reasonable personal use.
Accounts found to be used in violation of the expressed or implied guidelines
of EMusic's service are subject to immediate cancellation. (See EMusic.com's
Subscription Agreement at »www.emusic.com/bem/new_signup/terms.html,
particularly the termination provisions set forth in Section 7.1.) We ask
that you carefully consider these guidelines and the EMusic.com Subscription
Agreement terms and conditions as you use the service in the future.
Sincerely,
EMusic.com"
here's what i sent them back
"ok this is what your faq says
"EMusic is a revolutionary new music discovery service that offers
an easy and inexpensive way for avid music fans to download and
enjoy over 200,000 high-quality MP3 songs from established musicians.
For as little as $9.99 a month, you can download as much music as
you desire from EMusic's catalog. All of the music is legitimately
licensed from record labels and artists, so you can feel comfortable
knowing that songwriters, musicians and other copyright-holders
are being fairly compensated for their work."
"For as little as $9.99 a month, you can download as much music
as you desire from EMusic's catalog"
downloading 200 albums using YOUR downloading program does not violate
the TOS--if i want to download 1000 albums i will if that is what "i desire"
if i don't fit your business model, that's YOUR problem--not mine.
if you are going to send out emails to everyone who uses the service
to the best of their ability and rail on them for doing what the
site suggests, i.e. "unlimited downloads", then maybe you should change your site"
here was their response
"Dear EMusic Subscriber,
Thank you for contacting us in response to our email
concerning your account activity.
The intent of EMusic has never been to enable
customers to indiscriminately download massive numbers
of songs. We designed EMusic as an interactive
service to allow you to sample, discover and listen to
music from our many label partners.
Although we do not want to discourage active use of
our service, we have concluded that we cannot support
customers who are downloading huge numbers of tracks
that they cannot possibly ever listen to. EMusic pays
music publishers and songwriters a fixed amount for
every track downloaded from our site. This means that
the costs of supporting the small number of users who
abuse EMusic can impact our ability to provide our
service to the rest of our users. We are passionate
about EMusic, and we are working hard to ensure the
service continues to grow and meet our customers'
needs.
As a guideline, please use the service as it was
intended to be used -- for sampling songs and albums
and downloading numbers of tracks you can personally
use and enjoy. We hope this background information is
helpful and that you continue to enjoy EMusic.
EMusic.com"
they can go to hell | |
| | |
some guy
@milwwi.ameritech
| Re: Well deyamn... p.s. i think i downloaded about 1000 albums from them in total, at a total cost of about 120 dollars--all good jazz and blues stuff, some rock, some folk, some country etc.
their service is old, and was created with dialup in mind--the broadband revolution must have caught them off guard--they never saw this fat guy strolling into their HOJO's... | |
| | | | 
morph
join:2001-08-19
Canada | Re: Well deyamn... true, true, but they could easily just put a limit on the speed of the servers to individual connections... set it to 5 k/s , same as dial-up | |
| | | BIGHUSKER
join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN
| I hope you replied and told them to "go to hell." If I was paying $10 a month for a service and got talked to like that, I would cancel my account in a second. If a representative of a company talked to me like that in person, I might kick the crap out of him. | |
| | | |
some guy
@milwwi.ameritech | Re: Well deyamn... i'll save that for when i get booted--i'm going to queue up 200 more albums (discriminately of course) and see what the magic number is, and report it back to you good fellas & fellettes | |
| | | | | | | | | | lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| said by some guy$ :
i'll save that for when i get booted--i'm going to queue up 200 more albums (discriminately of course) and see what the magic number is
I'll bet you that the magic number is when a daily moving
average starts exceeding 1440 minutes of music to listen to.
The spirit of the wording seems to indicate that actually
*listening* to what you download is the point of it all.
There are only so many seconds/minutes/hours in a day ... | |
| | | | | | 
Aramis604
I Represent Nobody But Myself.
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Poway, CA
clubs:
| Re: Well deyamn... hmm... a single player can play for up to 1,440 minutes in a day. **ponders** I have 3 PC, two stereos, one MP3 player, three cars with CD players, and two DvD players that can play CDA format. **ponders**
Now considering that I'm not playing the same tracks on different players, or if I am, I've purchased multiple copies of the song, I can play up to 15,840 minutes of music in a day..... As I've asked before, who's to say how much music I can listen to in a day? Maybe I like to listen to 11 different songs all at the same time.
ok, so I went off of the deep end a bit, but seriously, it isn't their place to determine what I can use in a day/month/etc. If I've paid for what I have according to the TOS, where do they have any ground to stand on? | |
| | | | archfeld
join:2001-07-29
Concord, CA
| that is a blatant violation of the terms of service. There is NO SUCH THING as the spirit of the agreement, only the ACTUAL words and the interpretation a court puts on them. I'd sue..that is if I was silly enough to actually use a lame service like that. | |
| | | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
|
"Kick the crap out him" that's rich. How 'bout "kick the crap out of her" if it was a she? Jesus, get a life, "kick the crap out of him cuz you didn't get no respect!"
GOD DAMMIT! IF I BE PAYIN' 10 FREAKIN DOLLARS A MONTH THEY BEST TREAT ME LIKE I BE DA KING OR I GONNA KICK DARE ASS!
Stick with the "vote with the dollar part". It's what real people do. | |
| | | | | BIGHUSKER
join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN
| Re: Well deyamn... Wow, that's clever. You disagree with what I say, so you turn it around and call me a woman beater and make me out to look like an idiot. I can't beleive someone actually took the time to take that "kick the crap out of him" part seriously. I never meant it to be taken literally, and didn't think anyone would actually do so.
But my point still stands. I refuse to be disrepected by any company that I am a customer of if I'm not in violation of their terms of service. If you're the type of person that likes to get screwed by big business, then more power to you. I, OTOH, refuse to just lube up and bend over.
[text was edited by author 2002-11-10 20:12:33] | |
| | | | lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| said by BIGHUSKER :
If I was paying $10 a month for a service and got talked to like that, I would cancel my account in a second.
Well, duh! That is what they want from the hogs.
You can double your userbase with no changes, if you only
lose the 5% who use half the resources.
Some people just don't understand not-so-subtle hints
and get booted. Check out closing time at the local bar... | |
| | | TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| "...customers who are downloading huge numbers of tracks that they cannot possibly ever listen to"
Says who? I've bought over 200 CDs, and I've listen to all of them at least once. I listen to a few at work, I always have one in the car, and sometimes I'll even listen to them at home.
Sounds like someone over there said, "Oh, crap! We can't afford the bandwidth!", and decided to change the rules in the middle of the game. | |
| | | |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI | Re: Well deyamn... i bought 900 at full price, some of which are offered for pretty much free there--i see it as my way of "evening the score" with record companies that i gave entirely too much money from 1992-1999 ( i did buy 4 "real" cd's since 1999) | |
| | | Dotay
join:2002-11-08
Fort Wayne, IN
| This got me thinking. While they say that 200 albums in 3 days is unreasonable it would be interesting to see what they would accept as reasonable. Lets say for arguments sake that 10 albums a month would be reasonable. Each album has on average 15 songs. So that would get you about 150 songs a month. So at $10.00 per month that equals $.06 per song.
Kind of makes you wonder why the major labels are charging $1.00 per song for their download sites and $15.00 per CD.
[text was edited by author 2002-11-08 14:03:09] | |
| | |
Aramis604
I Represent Nobody But Myself.
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Poway, CA
clubs:
| I'm interested to know what they consider to be a
quote:
huge numbers of tracks
that they cannot possibly ever listen to
Before the whole p2p thing started, I had about 250 store bought CDs. Average that out to about 11 tracks per CD that's 2,750 songs. Now I'll admit I don't listen to all of these daily, but I do listen to all of them from time to time.
how can they possibly think they can put a limit on the number of tracks someone can "possibly" ever list to? How pompous is that? | |
| | | |
dsmey
@Dial1.NewY
from:
neutral
| Re: Well deyamn... Frankly, I think you guys are being dense. Would you walk out of Tower records with a stack of 250 CDs? No, that would be stupid -- you would buy some, listen to them, and then buy some more. Obviously, this is what EMusic is asking you to do.
Otherwise, you are claiming it is fair to pay them, let's say, $45 (for the 3-month deal) and take hundreds of CDs (or thousands of retail dollars) worth of music. Figure it at about $.50 a disk in mechanical repro royalties (which is around what EMusic claims they pay) and then figure out how much you are looting from them.
Granted, they need to change their policy, but I can see why they decided to cut off all of you jerks first. | |
| | | | |
The Rogue Wolf
| Re: Well deyamn... I believe you're missing the point. It's not an issue of if the downloaders were getting more than they were "entitled" to. It's that this company advertises, and explicitly promises, "unlimited" downloads, and then threatens- and terminates- member accounts for doing exactly that, insisting that the users were violating the "spirit" of the agreement. That's like renting a car on an unlimited mileage plan, and then being penalized because you drove it across a few states, instead of just to the supermarket and back.
If they want to limit it, fine. It's their service. But they MUST state up-front, clearly and plainly, what those exact limitations are. Their method, as it stands now, is borderline fraud. | |
| | | | |
Aramis604
I Represent Nobody But Myself.
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Poway, CA
clubs:
| If Tower Records were to advertise something to the effect of
"For just $45 you can have all the CDs you want from our selection of over 200,000 CDs available."
(now, I realize this is never going to happen, but for the sake of argument, let's go with it.)
Yeah, I might very well walk out of there with a stack of 250 CDs. But the point here is that EMusic advertised "Unlimited for as little as $9.99mo." Now I don't claim to ever used their service, and I don't have access to the TOS. There might be something in the quote "fine print" limiting its use. But from the other posts I've read on this topic, I don’t think that is the case.
How can someone be accused of being greedy or overindulging by taking advantage of the service as it was sold to them? What it sounds like to me is that EMusic has had a larger demand for the product then they were prepared, or able to supply for, and now they are trying to back peddle a bit. If they need to change the TOS for their product, well, that's their prerogative. They do however (and I think legally) need to either,
1. Inform all their current customers of the change, and then implement it on a scheduled date.
Or
2. Grandfather all their current customers, and then change the TOS for all 'new' customers.
| |
| | | | |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI
| I paid for the 250 albums--thats the whole point
I don't give a rat's anterior cruciate ligament if they make money or artists make money or what have you--I paid for unlimited downloads, and that is what I'm going to get.
The tower records thing is completely off the wall, because I PAID for the 250 albums! tower records would put them in a bag and say "Thank you sir!"
"Otherwise, you are claiming it is fair to pay them, let's say, $45 (for the 3-month deal) and take hundreds of CDs (or thousands of retail dollars) worth of music. Figure it at about $.50 a disk in mechanical repro royalties (which is around what EMusic claims they pay) and then figure out how much you are looting from them."
THAT IS WHAT THEY OFFERED! they offered unlimited downloads--they didn't say 2 albums a week, or "hey go easy on us we have nt iis4.0 servers"
if they want limits, fine put them in writing, until then i'm grabbing anything i find even remotely interesting | |
| | | | | |
dsmey
@Dial1.NewY
| Re: Well deyamn... Oh, I understand now. Clearly all you guys have been really badly ripped off. You ONLY got hundreds of albums for virtually nothing. I can see why you want to sue for your $10 back, since you were so badly deceived and abused.
What a terrible, terrible deal this EMusic thing turned out to be.
I mean really, the worst thing that happened is that they were rude about it. They aren't "threatening" anybody, they are basically just saying they don't want to play with you anymore. You get to walk away with armloads of stuff, and you don't even have to pay for a whole year (or 3 month) commitment. | |
| | | | | | |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI | Re: Well deyamn... well what did they expect? i'm not bitching because i got lots of stuff--but there are new customers who got booted after 4 albums and charged the full year's rate--do you think 4 low quality cd rips are worth 120 bucks? | |
| | | | | | | |
x
@Dial1.New
| Re: Well deyamn... "but there are new customers who got booted after 4 albums and charged the full year's rate--do you think 4 low quality cd rips are worth 120 bucks?"
This claim is totally false. (I mean, really, what's WRONG with you?) First of all, from all real-life accounts that I've read, when you get booted they stop charging you. (Some people were apparently charged for the next month but then refunded. I mean, what, you think they would keep charging you for a "subscription" that they canceled?) So, if you were booted in the first month, you'd have paid $10 bucks, and that's it.
And I'd bet my mammy's maxipad that nobody was booted for downloading 4 albums. That's just ridiculous. The only people I've seen who actually estimated what they were downloading admit to getting HUNDREDS of albums. | |
| | | | | | | | |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI | Re: Well deyamn... it says in the TOS that they can if they want to | |
| | | | | | | lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| said by dsmey:
Oh, I understand now. Clearly all you guys have been really badly ripped off. You ONLY got hundreds of albums for virtually nothing. I can see why you want to sue for your $10 back, since you were so badly deceived and abused.
Hehe, gotta agree with you ... finding myself this time on
"the other side" of the argument, than I'd usually be.
And I don't feel too sorry for a bunch of losers who sit in
front of their monitor 20 hours a day in order to click
one new link every couple minutes! | |
| | | | | | | |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI
| Re: Well deyamn... said by lurker93 :
And I don't feel too sorry for a bunch of losers who sit in
front of their monitor 20 hours a day in order to click
one new link every couple minutes!
actually they have a program (emusic downloader) that does it for you--line up 200 or so albums (yes albums) (takes about 10 minutes to line them up) then walk away--the program even names them to your specifications and puts them in album/artist folders--in fact it's too convenient, because that's where all their troubles began (when they introduced it) | |
| | | | | lagoleer
join:2002-01-04
Millville, NJ
| said by dsmey:
Frankly, I think you guys are being dense. Would you walk out of Tower records with a stack of 250 CDs? No, that would be stupid -- you would buy some, listen to them, and then buy some more. Obviously, this is what EMusic is asking you to do.
First of all, yes, the TOS do not specifically put caps on downloads, and their advertising does not state a limit. In actuality, they specifically state the unlimited nature of the service. We can all see and agree to that. This means a response of, "Well, they didn't say.....blah blah blah" is not needed.
Secondly, I agree. There is a segment of users obviously evoking their, "Affirmative Action," clause here and going slap happy with the service for perceived deserved reparations for years of expensive music (never mind the fact that it was always about choice. If you think it is too expensive, then simply do NOT buy it. No one forced you to buy the music. Obviously if everyone stopped buying music due to pricing structures, the companies would either have to change their pricing strategy/package deals or go out of business. Of course intangibly electronic media makes stealing that much easier for those who feel stealing is an ok reaction to what they deem unreasonable pricing). There is also that segment that is just plain greedy. Those are the types that see a plate in a store that says, "need some cents? Pick them up!" They then go to the counter with a .89 cent soda, fish around in their pocket, find .13 cents, and take the required .76 cents from the dish and when someone slaps their wrist, they say, "hey, it didn't tell me how MUCH I could take! I've tossed pennies in various dishes over the years, so what's your problem?!?!" It is odd how common sense only seems to work FOR the supposed thinker. ;-P Would someone really go into a store and purchase 200 albums in 3 days? No, but when armed with the ability to effective get music for a steal, their discriminating tastes suddenly aren't as discriminating, and they go hog wild downloading everything that even looks REMOTELY interesting. In the real, physical world, they would probably pass on these CDs because of content, cost, or both. But because it is basically a, "all you can eat," they are eating themselves sick, even when the food no longer tastes that good. Speaking of which, there are numerous cases of people being banned from these establishments because they eat well above what common sense and what an average person would deem, "all you can eat." I suppose some of these users are the same ones that cry wolf when an item online or in a retail store is accidentally marked, "$10" instead of, "$1000," and they expect to get it for that price when common sense should clearly tell them it is erroneously priced. And yet again, I am reminded of the users that took 24hr ISP service to heart years ago and kept their dial-up connections connected 24/7, then flipped out when the ISPs started imposing limits and disconnecting them. Even when idle, these users would run programs that would keep some type of activity running to keep themselves connected.
said by dsmey:
Otherwise, you are claiming it is fair to pay them, let's say, $45 (for the 3-month deal) and take hundreds of CDs (or thousands of retail dollars) worth of music. Figure it at about $.50 a disk in mechanical repro royalties (which is around what EMusic claims they pay) and then figure out how much you are looting from them.
Exactly. What is good for the goose is rarely good for the gander. Users whine and moan about the package deal nature of expensive CDs, but when given the chance to go slap happy, they do. I am sure none of these users stopped and said, 'wait, if I download 200 albums at ~15 songs per album, then that is 3000 songs at $10. That's .0034 per song. Wow, is the company taking a loss? What about the artists? How much are they paying in royalties? Bandwidth? Infrastructure costs?' Of course not. It is simply a free for all. No, they do not. Instead they think, 'big, bad, evil company makes more than enough $$$.'
said by dsmey:
Granted, they need to change their policy, but I can see why they decided to cut off all of you jerks first.
What other recourse do they have? They obviously will have to implement a new set of rules to counter-act greedy users lacking in common sense and a sense of decency. Actions like this really disgust me. Like adults that stumble upon a candy dish, and if it doesn't say, "1 per customer, please," they snatch handfuls of the candy then look around stupidly when the management looks at them in a not so friendly way or they simply don't care.
--
Real computer users use Unix. Real mobile warriors use Tadpole-RDI equipment.Knowing more about me than is desired: »home.earthlink.net/~electrosoft/ | |
| | | clamp
join:2002-09-24
San Jose, CA
| Who decides whether I can listen to 200 CDs a month or not? Why does eMusic has the right to tell me "well, please do not listen to CDs too much, 200 CDs are going to hurt you." Who cares, and why should eMusic care? They either remove the "unlimited" word or we will just won't join them and......hate to say, keep doing P2P. | |
| | Drowbe
join:2002-06-11
Los Angeles, CA
| I've been an eMusic user for quite some time now -- I am not sure why I have yet to get the dreaded message, but I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of albums. Here's why...
First and foremost, they said I could. Not going to argue this point beyond the fact that they never said "Unlimited downloads...as long as it is in the *spirit* of what we intended".
The main reason that I have downloaded so much music is that I can zip through the "What's New" list and tag anything remotely interesting sounding for download (the whole album), go to bed, wake up the next day and have a listen...if I don't like what I hear, boink! I delete it. The 30 second samples don't do it for me -- that is enough time to hear the hooks, but not get a feel for the album as a whole.
Comparing this site to a music store is absurd...unless the music store lets you take home as many cd's as you want for 10 dollars a month. I don't know about you, but I'd cancel my eMusic account and switch to that plan in a heart-beat. If they let you stream the songs, I am guessing that users might not bother grabbing every album -- you could have a listen and see if you really want it taking up drive space.
CD's sound great...128kbps sound...okay...sometimes. I am not sure who rips the cd's at emusic, but often they sound horrible (lots of phase problems). If I really like the album, I buy the CD.
I work from home. I pay for the service. I listen to the music I download...eventually. I don't post it to peer-to-peer sites. As far as I can tell, I am a-okay despite the number of downloads. | |
| jrb531
join:2001-02-14
Chicago, IL
clubs:
| Why are they so afriad to lower costs? Simply lower the costs of a new CD to $8 and this all goes away. The lost revenue will be made up by less litigation costs as well as the increased sales that will occur when people can now buy two CD's for the price they used to pay for one.
People will be more inclined to "try" new artists if they can sample the music for $8 instead of $15.
Everyone wins.
So why are they dragging their feet?
A good portion of people who now download music will now head back to the stores and pay $8 instead of taking the time and hassle of downloading and burning their own CD's.
When will the Record Industry "get it" and understand that when people think they are getting ripped off they will rebel and rebel they are in droves.
The real battle is for public opinion and the record companies have already lost. The public thinks they are being cheated and no amount of ad's or litigation can sway public opinion once it becomes entrenched. | |
| | 
Voodoo
Premium
join:2001-05-04
Mount Arlington, NJ | Re: Why are they so afriad to lower costs? I'd definatly buy more CDs if they were $8 a piece. However at $15-20 a piece...that's a tank of gas right there. I'm not paying that much lol  | |
| 
caleet
Radio X - Usradiox.Com
Premium
join:2002-05-29
Middletown, OH
|  China Buffet
Not the way I would run a business.
If you pay the fee ... you get all you want.
--
Charles »www.livexradio.com | |
| | 
rzaruba
join:2000-08-04
| Re: China Buffet
Well, lots of places had all-you-could-eat nights in those days. Of course, as you ate more, you got less of the main food and more of the fillers. Until you got basically fillers. Like fries?
Well, turns out that a bunch high school kids went to HOJO's, and the restaurant called the cops when they were eating too much of all they could eat. It was a near riot.
They had to feed them.
All-you-could-eat stopped shortly after that. And HOJO's was not far behind................ | |
| | | lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| Re: China Buffet said by rzaruba :
I recall, about 25+ years ago, the HOJO's in Ramsey, NJ, used to have an all-you-could-eat chicken night.
But did they bring sleeping bags and bedpans and refuse to
leave after 12 hours?
It's doubtful that the service didn't anticipate "campers"
The business model can succeed without going into the
venture with the intention to defraud 5% of the public.
It's much more likely that the abusers' frame of mind from
the beginning was not in the spirit of things -- 5% of
the general public are idiots if you haven't noticed ... | |
| | 
footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Sounds like AAA When I was a kid, my Dad was driving a pretty bad and unreliable car. He thought it would be a good idea to join an automotive service in case he got stranded somewhere. He joined AAA. After calling them three times in two months to jumpstart his dead car, he was dropped for abusing the service. AAA just wants your money, they don't really want to give you any service in return. Sounds like the same deal with this music service. | |
| | | lswinney
join:2002-09-02
Pasadena, TX
| Re: Sounds like AAAsaid by footballdude :
When I was a kid, my Dad was driving a pretty bad and unreliable car. He thought it would be a good idea to join an automotive service in case he got stranded somewhere. He joined AAA. After calling them three times in two months to jumpstart his dead car, he was dropped for abusing the service. AAA just wants your money, they don't really want to give you any service in return. Sounds like the same deal with this music service.
Wouldn't a new battery have been cheaper than joining AAA?
--
Sex is like air. It's not important unless you aren't getting any. | |
| | |
Reasoner
@twtelecom.net | Unlike EMusic's, basic AAA service IS limited to three uses a year, read your agreement. | |
| 
Klendathu
join:2002-02-24
Studio City, CA
clubs:
| What a bunch of lamers This situation is when some broadband companies complain that you are hogging up their bandwidth if you are on all the time. Well, if they advertise that you are always on and have unlimited use, there should be no restrictions.
I say call out the lawyers and declare a class action lawsuit and say that Emusic has conducted false advertising and were deceiving their customers. | |
| | 
Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
| Re: What a bunch of lamers said by Klendathu :
I say call out the lawyers and declare a class action lawsuit and say that Emusic has conducted false advertising and were deceiving their customers.
I'm sure thats in the works. It will probably get pretty ugly.
--
[BetaNews | phpBB |MSN TerraServer |Space Imaging] | |
| | | 
Aladrin
Code Junkie
join:2001-01-25
Clermont, FL | Re: What a bunch of lamers Yeah, I definitely smell lawsuit  | |
| | | |
logan33
@speakeasy.n | Re: What a bunch of lamers Unfortunately a lawsuit probably won't work because the user agreement clearly states that emusic reserves the right to terminate accounts at their own discretion. they covered their asses. | |
| | | | |
ArconW
@telenet-ops.be | Re: What a bunch of lamers Not realy, remember, when they boot you off there service they send you a mail with the reason. If you can prove that you dident use a download program like they say, then you have a chance of a case against them... | |
| | lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| said by Klendathu :
Well, if they advertise that you are always on and have unlimited use, there should be no restrictions.
I say call out the lawyers and declare a class action lawsuit and say that Emusic has conducted false
If it sounds too good to be true -- it probably is.
Learn the meaning of "up to" in advertising copy.
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
Don't ignore phrases like "prices starting at" in their ad | |
| 
Rally1
join:2000-06-12
Irvine, CA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| does that mean does that mean if you don't download enough, they refund your money?!
For every guy who downloads 100 albums, there are 100 people who dont download anything, and their CC gets hit for $10.
bad move by emusic, but they dont care, and maybe they don't need to?! | |
| Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Can't always appeal to all the masses Lately the trend in the Internet community seems to be "free for all, or all for nothing." EMusic has realized this and is taking steps to stop taking a beating from the freeloaders out there. There is obviously some staggering abuse to their convenient service offering.
Want to re-distribute? Serve your own shit.
--
OMARNYC.COM - My place on the web | |
| |
See 8 replies to this post | |
jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Before lawsuit | |
| 
WildGod
God Is Dead
Premium
join:2002-01-30
NYC
| This is def false advertising at its worst. In the advertising pitch:
"EMusic is a revolutionary new music discovery service that offers an easy and inexpensive way for avid music fans to download and enjoy over 200,000 high-quality MP3 songs from established musicians."
Where does it say I cant enjoy all 200,000? Seems to me like they are telling me to go right on ahead and get all of them.
Definately a class action lawsuit. How can these meatheads begin to tell someone how much music is possible to listen to? I listen to music every chance I get and dont appreciate them telling me how much is humanly possible. Its a hobby and I take advantage of it any chance I get.
--
AOL DSL SUCKS ** Time to try eDonkey ** eDonkey Guide**eDonkey Search Engine | |
| | lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| Re: This is def false advertising at its worst. False advertising only to idiots and those who choose to ignore the obvious.
All they have to do is STREAM 4 minute tunes in 4 minutes,
and 10 minute songs in 10 minutes (and let you save it at
the end)
Then there is no way to consume more than you can actually
use at the time of use.
Chinese buffets don't let you load up your pockets either... | |
| | |
WildGod
God Is Dead
Premium
join:2002-01-30
NYC | Re: This is def false advertising at its worst. hmmmmm well how is someone an idiot when thats the way it is advertised? unlimited to me means just that unlimited.
the idiots here are the people in their marketing department not the consumers who believed them. | |
| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| So much for that lawsuit idea... 7. TERMINATION
7.1 You agree that EMusic, in its sole discretion, may terminate your ID, password, account (or any part thereof) or use of the Service for any reason, including, without limitation, if EMusic believes that you have violated or acted inconsistently with the letter or spirit of the Agreement. EMusic may also in its sole discretion and at any time discontinue providing the Service, or any part thereof, with or without notice. You agree that any termination of your access to the Service under any provision of this Agreement may be effected without prior notice, and acknowledge and agree that EMusic may immediately deactivate or delete your account and/or bar any further access to the Service. Further, you agree that EMusic shall not be liable to you or any third-party for any termination of your access to the Service.
--
"Nothing fuels a good flirtation like need and anger and desperation"-Aimee Mann | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
ZeCanard
The Cosmic Duck
join:2002-09-26
Irving, TX | Lawsuits? Yes I'm surprised they haven't lost 1000 lawsuits yet. | |
| |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI
| Re: Lawsuits? i saved the emails just in case
[text was edited by author 2002-11-08 15:04:14] | |
| Dotay
join:2002-11-08
Fort Wayne, IN
| Let's do some math A gentlemen above posted that he downloaded 200 albums in 3 days and this brought down the heavy hand of emusic. Another gentlemen said that he downloaded 25 albums over 3 months and he was fine. That is roughly 8 albums per month. At 15 songs per album that gets you 120 songs. Divide the $9.99 monthly fee by 120 songs and you get roughly $.08 per song.
Now according to them they give royalties to artists and songwriters for EVERY song that someone downloads. Now it seems reasonable that they don't send all of this $.08 as a royalty since they have to keep some for themselves.
Yet they were still making money under this scheme of 8 albums per month. I think this is a good illustration of the frustrations that a lot of people have with the current online offerings of a lot of the major labels, as well as the ridiculous price of a CD.
If a company can make money for $.08 per download why cant the major labels do the same thing. If the majors would offer this same sort of service for high quality downloads I would dump Kazaa Lite for good.
This seems like proof to me that this is possible because someone is already kind of doing it. Come RIAA stop with the lawsuits and give the consumers what they want. | |
| 
KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
 ·Comcast
| This Reminds Me Of.... An episode of the Simpsons I once watched. Some people may remember that episode. Homer went into an "all you can eat" seafood restaurant and just began to pig out. Eventually when the restaurant had to close (many hours later), the restaurant owners tried to throw him out. Homer said he hadn't had "all he could eat" like as advertised.
The issue went to court and Homer won the case.
I think some companies know what they're doing when they throw around the word "unlimited". | |
| 
Noz
join:2002-09-11
Edison, NJ
clubs: | People downloading too much eh? Why can't they just put a download cap on each user so they can't download 1000 songs a day. Problem solved in 5 seconds. :P
--
RedWind | |
| |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI | Re: People downloading too much eh? yep, as long as they say somewhere that that is the rule, and remove all instances of "unlimited" from their site...
of course that won't really stop anyone since 1000 songs a day is still 7000 songs a week | |
| | | | |
Prodigyuser
@mindspring.com | Re: People downloading too much eh? You can (or used to anyway) connect to Prodigy 24/7/365. I did that. Then went to broadband. Prodigy is becoming SBC/Yahoo so maybe you can't do 24/7/365 anymore with dialup, I don't know. | |
| 
neutral
faith in the future
Premium
join:2001-08-04
Ringgold, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Aw damnit, I JUST got the service... Oh well. Since it seems that the company won't be clear on HOW MUCH is acceptable usage, guess I'll just enjoy while I can and hope I don't get the ax soon. 
--
AIM | |
| |
some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI | Re: Aw damnit, I JUST got the service... download as much as physically possible--that way when they boot you you'll only be out 10 bucks and still have a few hundred albums
then report your credit card stolen so they can't charge any more than the initial 10 | |
| | | Reverend Ike
Premium
join:2001-08-24
Sacramento, CA
| Negative feedback is the best way to fight back Leviathan makes the most pertinent point. They advertised themselves as an "unlimited" service, and when they realised that broadband users could create a situation where $9.99 would not provide sufficient profit for the higher average number of downloads, they simply needed to decide on a download cap or revise their pricing policy. Instead, they continued to advertise themselves as "unlimited", purposely taking the time to generate email messages and cancel accounts, while purposely making NO effort to redefine their inaccurate representation as "unlimited". This would definitely weaken any possible case based on their "written" intent. And any reliance on the "spirit" of their agreement would be laughable. However, I kinda doubt that there will be too many lawsuits. Individuals won't sue over $10, and a class-action lawyer would most likely be facing RIAA-backed opposition. I think the most effective (and easiest) action is to expose their misleading advertising by continuing to post negative feedback on Cnet, in music forums, in music chatrooms, etc. | |
| |
Anonymous Coward
@attbi.com | Negative feedback to the Attorney General Perhaps a few well placed letters to the local AG in their state and in your state. This has brought results for me in other matters in the past. | |
| 
cyberthugin
join:2002-03-12
Kew Gardens, NY
| Lairs......All Lairs Now tell me, how do they prove it that you not able to listen to all of the songs you download, If you're like me I download constantly, because I hate listening to the same stuff over and over again. Even in my car where I have a mp3 player and harddrive I installed. I like to have an archive of music @ my disposal. | |
| grindkore
join:2000-12-29
Olmsted Falls, OH
|  Duhh, Why don't they cap the bandwidth?
| |
| 
Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
| Looks like I won't be renewing my subscription
because they could no longer bill my credit card (the
bank the card had been issued under had changed hands, and
they had also changed the card number too). I was
considering renewing my membership, but after this, it
looks like I will never use them again. Not only that, but
most of what is in their catalog is encoded using old or
very old Xing at 128kb/s, which sounds like crap.
One more thing: Emusic is owned by one of the big five
labels, Vivendi. Looks like they've shot themselves in
the foot yet again.
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.
[text was edited by author 2002-11-08 16:02:16] | |
| | | | |
|
|
·
·
·