Small Town USA, Inc.The plausibility of municipal broadband ( old news - 06:56PM Thursday Oct 31 2002) tags: business Irritated by either shoddy quality or no broadband service at all, many cities and towns across the U.S. have taken matters into their own hands. Laying fiber and setting up shop as independent ISP's, many have seen mixed success, and others are considering the option. Some analysts are critical of the concept, arguing that municipal business models are unsustainable once pressured by national competition. Several Illinois communities were impressed by the efforts of cities such as Thomasville, GA and Palo Alto, CA and decided to take a field trip there to better develop their own broadband plan. After receiving mountains of negative feedback from area residents over the quality of broadband services, the city of Geneva, in concert with nearby St. Charles and Batavia, began considering development of a fiber optic network to serve business and residential areas. Since we originally discussed the plan back in February, the city of St. Charles, which keeps a progress log for the project, has seemingly been locked in an endless loop of debate and analysis over the viability of a city run broadband network. After a requested feasibility study took most of the summer to complete, the city has yet to digest the 700 page study and come to a decision. If the city approves the plan, a vote could come as early as April. It's peculiar to note that the city was concerned enough with local broadband service to consider starting their own network, yet the city's progress log indicates that they quickly granted a franchise transfer to AT&T with little fight. Many areas have been using the transfer as leverage for area service improvements, yet an area that has perhaps been excessively outraged over poor service failed to use the opportunity to their advantage. While the city remains unsure if it wants to enter the broadband business, others are considerably less undecided. The Heartland Institute, a national nonprofit research organization based in Chicago, released a 22 page report that states the project is likely to go bankrupt, and that the city would be unable to compete with the private sector. While the city has had moderate success running its own electric utility, the report argues that the project, which is expected to cost more than sixty million dollars, would simply face too much hostility from national broadband competitors to survive. The Heartland Institute (which commonly takes "pro-business stands on public policy issues such as privatization of public services" according to the Kane County Chronicle) named the report "Municipally Owned Broadband Networks: A Critical Evaluation" and made it publicly available via the institute's website. According to the report, only 8 percent of U.S. counties and local governments with more than 5,000 residents own their own electric utilities, with Municipal cable systems being a true anomaly at only 1.3 percent. Offering Internet access is rarer still, at 0.7 percent. Pointing at the rarity of the endeavor as proof of the concept's illegitimacy, the report goes on to explore the financial impact of such ventures. One such network, built in Spencer, Iowa, cost the town $17 million to implement. Based on the town's 11,000 residents, the project cost $1,545 per resident and $3,777 per household....a pricey solution. The report suggests that the immense cost of such projects is almost impossible to recoup if a competitor wants to engage in a price war. It goes on to commend the cities for suggesting the idea as means for change, but advises against proceeding into serious application. "I understand their motivation," notes Heartland president Joseph Bast, "but the Tri-Cities think they can beat the odds and do something other cities are unable to do, and that is provide municipal service more effectively than a private sector competitor I wouldn't bet on that pony." The cities, however, weren't phased. One Batavia city administrator believes that Bast does not have an "accurate understanding of the project", while others argue that since the city already runs its own electric utility, start-up and operation costs should be significantly less. "Historically, we got into the electric utility for the same reason: the residents wanted it," Geneva Information Systems Supervisor Peter Collins said. "We're used to being different." Related:- Verizon Again Tweaks DSL Bundles
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  ib50MbSoon Formerly TwoKDialup Premium join:2002-06-07 Coloma, MI
| ... The cities and towns across America don't really have a choice. Residents want broadband and businesses NEED it. Without broadband, property values fall and businesses may be forced to move to areas with better data services. -- Earthlink/DirecWay SRS | SatMex 5-1110 | Win2K - ICS on Celeron 500 w/192MB -> Netgear RO318 -> Home network | |
|  |   Abe Froman
join:2000-08-19 Dallas, TX | Re: ... Too bad the FCC won't let the phone company invest without having to give sleazy parasites access to their own investments. | |
|  |  |   geebus
@rr.com
| Re: ... "Some analysts are critical of the concept, arguing that municipal business models are unsustainable once pressured by national competition"
eh? they are doing this because "NATIOANAL COMPETITION" doesnt want, need or care about thier business!! | |
|  |  |  |   Abe Froman
join:2000-08-19 Dallas, TX
| Re: ... said by gee, I missed the bus: "NATIOANAL (sic) COMPETITION" doesnt (sic) want, need or care about thier (sic) business!!
Not quite. Check this out. | |
|  |  |  |  |   rklein God Among Hogs
join:2001-01-18 Worcester, MA
| Re: ... Hmm... The article endorses Oklahoma House Bill 2796 ("Passage of HB 2796 would ensure that Oklahoma consumers continue to enjoy the benefits...") and then finishes with: "Not an endorsement."
They can call the article what they like, but it sure as heck *is* an endorsement.
But in any case, what does that have to do with the idea that municipalities start their own broadband services because national competition is *not* bringing broadband service to them (or at least not with acceptable service levels)?
-- -Rich | |
|  |  |  |  |   lowkey7
join:2001-05-13 Claremore, OK
edited
| I think I might be missing something here. I live in the Tulsa, OK area...check. I live in a rather affluent neighborhood...check (I even live on a lake for crying out loud). I have a decent income...check (my wife and I clear six figures easy). I have DSL...NOPE. Where's my DSL? Oklahoma ran all the CLECs, for all intents and purposes, out of the state so SBC would make the investment in the state, but SBC isn't making the investment they claimed they would. Ed Whitacre sounds like Dick Gephardt sometimes...both say eliminate their enemies and give them positions of autonomy and they will do grand things for you, but both are full of krapp. -- "You put the Democrats first and the Democrats put you last." - Malcolm X [text was edited by author 2002-11-01 06:52:08] | |
|  |  |   ib50MbSoon Formerly TwoKDialup Premium join:2002-06-07 Coloma, MI
| said by Abe Froman : Too bad the FCC won't let the phone company invest without having to give sleazy parasites access to their own investments.
While I agree that the telco's are entitled to a FAIR ROI, without government controls or strong competition, telco prices will continue to rise thru the stratosphere. For example, an SBC/Ameritech ISDN line here in Coloma, MI is $210/mo. Just ten miles away in a town with cable modem service, an ISDN line is just $46/mo. I'm sure that when Comcast upgrades our local cable system for Internet service and SBC/Ameritech faces some competition here too, the ISDN price will drop. -- Earthlink/DirecWay SRS | SatMex 5-1110 | Win2K - ICS on Celeron 500 w/192MB -> Netgear RO318 -> Home network | |
|  |  |  |   lowkey7
join:2001-05-13 Claremore, OK
| Re: ... said by ib50MbSoon : I agree that the telco's are entitled to a FAIR ROI...
I don't think any RBOCs or MSOs wanted a ROI when they decided to deploy to areas they knew good and well had no interest in their service. -- "You put the Democrats first and the Democrats put you last." - Malcolm X | |
|  |  |   sporkme drop the crantini and move it, sister Premium,MVM join:2000-07-01 Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by Abe Froman : Too bad the FCC won't let the phone company invest without having to give sleazy parasites access to their own investments.
Cry me a river.
That's PAID access. And someone wanting to do what you always say competitors should do, "build it themselves". Give some credit where it's due.
And not really relevant to the discussion at hand.
If a municipality has been poorly served by telco AND/OR cable companies, it's because they don't see money in it. If we're talking about a little podunk town, you're not going to see Worldcom or Covad coming in looking to get some UNEs if the telco all of a sudden decides to start some broad FTTH or other radical new bandwidth delivery.
Assuming some of the costs stated are accurate, for example the $3K neighborhood per home, that's really not that bad if we're talking fiber to the home. Over 10 years that's $300 per home per year plus interest, and a fiber deployment should be viable for far longer than 10 years. Some municipalities charge upwards of $300 per year to haul feces from the crapper to the sewage treatment plant... Not implying the internet is a total cesspool yet, but it's just not that huge a cost over time. In some rural areas, high speed internet and modern phone service could be a wonderful boost for up and coming business. | |
|   BK3
join:2001-04-10 Geneva, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
| As a resident .... I live in Geneva, the city named in the article. I would be very disappointed if they dropped this endeavor. I would even consider volunteering my services in order to get this thing off the ground. I was, and still am, looking forward to it. -- Intelligent discussion is invited and encouraged. | |
|  |  |   WiFi It's In The Air
join:2002-06-06 NiagaraFalls
| Rural initiative in CANADA
Two years ago, the Canadian federal government imposed two new surcharges on all communications subscribers (cell, pager, phone, etc,...). One was the 911 surcharge to help subsidize the rising costs of operating the systems and the other was a $2/mo/unit Rural Infrastructure surcharge. This money is used to fund broadband and cell phone communications in rural Canada. | |
|   Eat Me
join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ | Who the hell uses broadband in rural areas? I know rural areas without ELECTRICITY, far less broadband... | |
|  |   RR Conductor RailRoadDude Premium join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Who the hell uses broadband in rural areas? I know rural areas without ELECTRICITY
I do too, but it's mostly hippies living in the woods, I have been to some pretty obscure, out of the way as rural as you can get places but they all had electricity. -- MOVING BACK TO WEST COVINA, SO CAL NEXT SPRING!  | |
|  |   SRFireside
join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX | Are you a Hatfield or a McCoy?  | |
|  |  dsless
join:2001-05-16 Pittsburgh, PA
| I do. I am a IT person that needs broadband to dial into work and work for other contracts providing IT servers. I have ISDN and that is it. I am sure Verizon is going to spend the the money to provide boardband to my area. Hell there are houses all around me and I am 2 miles from the interstate and a large industrial park, but no DSL or CABLE (thank you adelphia). So yes I do need it. | |
|  |  |   Eat Me
join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ | Re: Who the hell uses broadband in rural areas? Rural broadband isn't going to take off because there simply aren't many subscribers. Either that or it will be VERY highly priced. | |
|  |  |  |   RR Conductor RailRoadDude Premium join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Who the hell uses broadband in rural areas? Then you subsidize it like they did with electricity and telephones. They need some kind of REA(Rural Electrification Administration, created in the 1930's by FDR)type program to get broadband into these areas. -- MOVING BACK TO WEST COVINA, SO CAL NEXT SPRING!  | |
|  |  |  |  |  lundah
join:2002-10-29 Milwaukee, WI
| Re: The subsidy is already there Check your phone bill, you'll notice a line for a "USF fee" or something close to that. You're pitching into the Universal Service Fund, which has been around for decades. It's an FCC program that gives subsidies to ILEC's that serve rural & low-income areas. | |
|  |  |  |  |  lagnaf
join:2000-03-26 Peoria, IL
·Comcast
edited
| Re: Who the hell uses broadband in rural areas? Railroads: Agreed. Lundah: I don't believe the following used any USF fees.
Good Hope, Illinois where the McDonough (county)Telephone Cooperative offers cutting edge technology and DSL to the population of Good Hope, approximately 416. The approximate number of families is 186.
»www.mdtc.net
The Co-op'c service area completely surrounds the city of Macomb, a University town and host for the Rams training camp. Their population is more than 15k without looking and served by the former GTE. Pick up a phone there and it sounds just like in old movies. Somebody desperate is finally setting up a wireless service in Macomb.
This sort of thing is typical with the rural tel coops, all the money stays local and gets plowed back into capital investments. Also, they are member owned. It's harder to shovel all the money out the back door when all your friends and neighbors are watching. [text was edited by author 2002-12-18 14:27:09] | |
|   dnoyeB Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09 Southfield, MI | Their not businesses Their business model fails because they are not businesses... | |
|  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: Their not businesses That's not entirely true. Most government work is business related and budget restricted. They are already running their own power utility....it's impossible not to call them a business.
The business model fails for the same reason the mom and pop grocery store can't compete with Walmart.
Bulk pricing and power. | |
|  |  |  killah_xft
join:2002-10-23 Orono, ME
| Re: Why aren't they looking at wireless? I agree with this, but most buisnesses want higher bandwidth than wireless can buck up for..I too have 2 choices for broadband at home, both Wireless which has a $600 setup fee and $50 a month. as far as I know from people who have the service it is very good.. but there are distance limitations just as with DSL and some cable ISP's because it is cheaper to do wireless, running any type of digital line costs a LOT of money. Just to have someone install 300ft of CAT5 cable can cost upwards of $200 here... and when we installed Fiber optic cable between the three local schools it cost upwards of $14,000 even though we had it done by army contractors for the MSLN project in Maine. both of the schools are within a quarter mile radius of each other. I do like this plan because this would mean city run internet without the limitations put on it by ISP's unless you split the residential and buisness lines...splitting them (separate networks) raises prices. As far as I know no-one wants a service that is too high priced for it's usefulness.... | |
|   Rob Froelich
join:2000-03-26 Saint Charles, IL clubs:
·Comcast
| Its about the money Residents of Geneva, St. Charles, and Batavia IL already enjoy some of the lowest electricity rates in the state of Illinois. Why not extend that success to include other services which the market is currently NOT providing. Oh, and if you believe the above referenced study about DSL being available to Virtually all of Geneva, and some of St. Charles and Batavia, then have zero experience with actual DSL deployment. DSL is currently available to about 25% of the actual population of Geneva (since most of the most heavily populated newer residential neighborhoods are on the eastern and western edges of the town), and less than 5% of the actual populations of Batavia and St. Charles. Did I mention that ATT has not even provided a DATE yet for when cable modem service might be available. The are lighting up Dennis Hastert's hometown as we speak - but not the tri-cities - because no powerful politicians that could cause major trouble for ATT live there.
I hope this thing gets off the ground, because somebody needs to take the initiative and realize that modernizing our telecommunications infrstructure is critical to this nations future competitiveness. The private sector is being squashed right now by a half dozen 800 pound gorillas who want things to stay exactly as they are right now, and only move forward that the speed and quality that a half dead 800 pound gorilla can muster.
-- Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!! | |
|  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: Its about the money I'm curious....and this is bugging me.....was there any local chatter about why the cities allowed the franchise transfer of AT&T service to Comcast if they were so dissatisfied with the service there? | |
|  |  |   Rob Froelich
join:2000-03-26 Saint Charles, IL clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Its about the money Not really, The general feeling is that there's not much power the cities can leverage with their franchise agreements in this scenario. What they are doing is giving att/comcast as much run around as possible in renewing their franchises and only renewing them for 1 year at a time until they improve their service. Its more of an annoyance tactic than anything else. -- Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!! | |
|  |  lagnaf
join:2000-03-26 Peoria, IL
·Comcast
| said by Rob Froelich : Residents of Geneva, St. Charles, and Batavia IL already enjoy some of the lowest electricity rates in the state of Illinois.
General FYI...
The municipal owned power company in Bushnell Illinois has the lowest rate of all the state. Plus they have given out a free month of service to residents just about every year. | |
|   cork1958 Cork
join:2000-02-26 Fruitport, MI | heck yeah! I think this would be a fantastic idea even in places that already have broadband. Maybe there would be some competiton then. -- »www.geocities.com/cork1958 | |
|   insomniac Oh Yeah Premium join:2002-09-22 Naperville, IL clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
| Geneva knows what they're doing. I have a friend who lived in Geneva, and for most of the 80's and 90's, the Geneva power grid was exponentially more reliable than the ComEd power grid. (After repeated blackouts, ComEd finally got off their asses and improved their infrastructure in metro Chicago in recent years.)
The Geneva water also doesn't taste like Lake Michigan, which is atypical for most communities here.
If the Tri-Cities can afford to build the infrastructure, can beat Ameritech/AT&T to the punch on more widespread deployment of broadband and can provide better service, this would work out quite well. | |
|  wattsup
join:2002-11-05 Ephrata, WA
| I love my fiber optic!
I live in Ephrata, Washington. Our public utility (Grant County PUD) has put fiber to the house in most of the county already. While the utility is building and maintaining the infrastructure, independent companies are providing the services, such as TV, telephone and internet. We own our utility and it is very successful (has anybody heard of the Grand Coulee dam)? My HIGH SPEED connection costs $25/month. TV has about 100 channels for $50/month. My average download speed is about 750k/second. That's not theoretical, that's real! I think it would go faster if the sending servers would allow it. This system is the solution to the internet crawl. I love getting streaming video that actually looks great! If anyone out there is getting fiber optic like us, let me know. | |
|  |  dsltechie63
join:2001-12-05 Nutting Lake, MA | Re: I love my fiber optic! I have read the story of Grant county many times, it's wonderful what they have done for the folks of Grant County | |
|  |  cougar230
join:2001-11-07 Tacoma, WA
| We have had our own fiber optic cable tv/highspeed internet network here in tacoma, wa since 1998 the speeds blow at&t away and have less outages plus we have 300 plus channels. so much better than paying the devil aka at&t for lousy service the only reason they upgraded in the first place was out of shame. | |
|  nolatency4u
join:2002-11-18 Palo Alto, CA
| Muni cannot do it
when the tri-cities went to the City of Palo Alto they must have been wearing some hefty rose colored glasses. They have four people who do not have any idea how to manage anything close to a city run network. If your a buisiness and want to actually hook up to the fiber you have to pay extremely huge fees. Wait for months for the city to feel like doing the project. Deal with all the standard city politics then pay massive yearly distance fees. get reamed for a connection fee. Then you have to connect to someone elses network for it to work. oh did I mention that your neighbor probably is on the same fiber but you both pay the distance costs as if you are the only one on it? they still dont have use hooked up and its been 7 months since we paid. They told us the fiber was outside the front door. sorry we had to fix a leaky pipe. So pipe fitters are my isp. worse govt. pipe fitters. | |
|   CuriousGeorge
@66.95.x.x | Channeled High Speed Services brokering Would it be feasible to run a DS3 or more realistically a T1 connection to one house and then distribute it through the entire neighborhood through fiberoptic cabling, or other means, assuming the fiberoptic cable is already in place? | |
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