224Mbps For $1.58 a Month?World's largest BPL deployment in Indonesia 06:11PM Thursday Apr 03 2008 by Karltags: prices · alternatives · bandwidth · world · networking · OdditiesComputer World Malaysia is claiming in two published articles that a company by the name of Velchip Sdn Bhd is preparing to launch the world's largest deployment of broadband over powerline (BPL) technology. According to the report(s), the $14 billion project will link 400,000 Mosques with BPL connectivity, providing 60 million users with 224Mbps connectivity for $1.58 a month. Yeah, it's very likely someone misplaced a decimal point, played with numbers, or is talking about shared bandwidth per mosque, but the plan remains ambitious -- and absolutely huge: "This project will offer 60 million users unlimited high speed Internet connection of 224Mbps (megabits per second) at a cost of only around RM5 (US$1.58) per user per month, which is the fastest and cheapest in the world," he said. "This is bigger than both the Google project in Texas (2 million users) and the 2007 IBM/Corinex BPL project (15 million users)," Rahman claimed. That absolutely towers over any BPL deployment in the States, where interference and a lack of interest from utilities has kept the technology as a niche role player, despite an endless stream of hype from vendors in the BPL space.
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 |  | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
April 3rd, @08:07PM
| Re: $237/mo per mosque said by TK Junk Mail  :With 60 million users spread over 400,000 mosques, that comes to 150 people per mosque. At $1.58/mo per person, that comes to $237/mo per mosque. A much more reasonable price for 224 Mbps. They don't have to make is all back right away. $237 a month doesn't take into account a time frame. But for Indoenesia, I don't see how it makes financial sense. Their business model also assumes a pretty high adoption rate. There are a good number (not all) of Islamic institutions that look down at the Internet. It may happen, but not they way they say. | |
| | 
RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | Yeah, that's an income of $1.13 billion per year ($94.8 million per month). Could be do-able.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | 
popTYPOP
@comcast.net
| Re: $237/mo per mosque On April 1, 2008, Ambient Corporation (“Ambient “ or the "Company") and Duke Energy (“Duke”), one of the largest electric power companies in the United States, entered into a Commercial Deployment Agreement (the “Agreement”) pursuant to which Ambient Smart Grid equipment and technology will be deployed over portions of Duke’s electric power distribution grid.
Under the terms of the Agreement, Duke will be purchasing from the Company Smart Grid equipment and services valued at approximately $10.7MM. The Company and Duke will both exert commercially reasonable efforts including, without limitation, the dedication of appropriate staff, facilities and equipment as well as access to facilities and sites to carry out the Deployment. In addition to the equipment to be supplied by Ambient, the Company will be providing engineering and technical support as needed to design, support and assist in the completion of the Deployment. | |
| | | 
Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: BPL I should have let you write the article.
Very concise. | |
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anonomous
@comcast.net | Seems that just about EVERY developed nation has better broadband than us  ! | |
| | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: Seems Since when is Malaysia a developed nation? | |
| | 
Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
02101
| said by anonomous :that just about EVERY developed nation has better broadband than us ! The grass is always greener on the other side. The reality of the situation in these countries with bandwidth coming out their ears is often different than we've been led to believe (and it's often in a language your or I don't read).
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
| | 
Omega
Butter Bars
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
| said by anonomous :that just about EVERY developed nation has better broadband than us ! I would MUCH rather live in the US with slow internet than in Malaysia with gigabit internet. | |
| | | Warez_Zealot
Mr. Misanthrope
join:2006-04-19
St Catharines, ON
edit:
April 4th, @02:09AM
| Re: Seems said by Omega :said by anonomous :that just about EVERY developed nation has better broadband than us ! I would MUCH rather live in the US with slow internet than in Malaysia with gigabit internet. That's a very ignorant American thing to say. You've probably never traveled outside the USA (or likely even your state for that matter). Malaysia is an awesome country.
I also hate to burst your bubble, but the USA has some pretty squalid places on par with developing and 3rd world nations. | |
| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Seems said by Warez_Zealot :That's a very ignorant American thing to say. You've probably never traveled outside the USA (or likely even your state for that matter). Malaysia is an awesome country. I also hate to burst your bubble, but the USA has some pretty squalid places on par with developing and 3rd world nations. Yeah but at least we are free to protest against our own government.
Oh, and before you question me, I have been to both Europe and South America where I have family. | |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Warez_Zealot :said by Omega :said by anonomous :that just about EVERY developed nation has better broadband than us ! I would MUCH rather live in the US with slow internet than in Malaysia with gigabit internet. That's a very ignorant American arrogantly Canadian thing to say. You've probably never traveled outside the USA (or likely even your state for that matter). Malaysia is an awesome country. I also hate to burst your bubble, but the USA has some pretty squalid places on par with developing and 3rd world nations. So, just because he's glad to be from where he's from he's an unworldly buffoon who's never left Ohio?
You sound even more arrogant than the person you attempt to insult.
Perhaps some introspection is in order....
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
| | defaultPlay
join:2007-11-30
Collegeville, PA
 ·Comcast
·Verizon FIOS
| What now ISPs? Sounds like Malaysia is the place to go for some serious broadband speed.
What do you have to say about that Comcast, Verizon, and all you other ISPs in the states? You guys are all getting owned by Malaysia in not only speed but the price isn't even a competition, it's a steal! | |
| | Lord_Black
join:2006-07-08
Walnut, CA
| Re: What now ISPs? said by defaultPlay :What do you have to say about that Comcast, Verizon, and all you other ISPs in the states? Nothing. They have your money already.  | |
| | 
Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| said by defaultPlay :Sounds like Malaysia is the place to go for some serious broadband speed. What do you have to say about that Comcast, Verizon, and all you other ISPs in the states? You guys are all getting owned by Malaysia in not only speed but the price isn't even a competition, it's a steal! I think you don't know how good you have it in PA..
-Tzale
--
Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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| dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| They can keep it The article mentions that the modem will do 224 Mbps, but something tells me that users will see a small fraction of that- especially considering that it's relying on BPL fed by satellites.
Plus, how many here would really want to rely on an Internet connection located in their church / mosque / synagogue? No thanks. | |
| | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: They can keep it That's really the big thing here- this is basically the cultural equivalent of your local library getting a really fast connection, not to the home by any means. | |
| | 
Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC | Porn lover I guess? | |
| ltjordan
join:2001-12-02
Hyattsville, MD | Re: $1.58/month. I'll believe it when I see it. Right now, it's just hype. | |
| |
RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | Re: $1.58/month. That's $1.58 for each person, on average, using it. In this case it would be the equivalent of a town with 150 residents each paying $1.58 per month use a single high speed internet connection.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| scoopy03
join:2003-05-06
00000 | heh regardless if it is shared or actual dedicated it is still better than dialup prices.
--
Member of FIOS tech forum. | |
| Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL |  CQ, CQ -- Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz.
 I guess the Malaysian government is going to tell their Amateur Radio Operators, if they have any, to suck gas if the BPL Signal interferes with their signal. | |
| |
Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC | Re: CQ, CQ -- Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz. That's how they do it in those countries. | |
| | | | | Xizer
join:2004-02-05
Kenosha, WI
| Re: CQ, CQ -- Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz. said by KA3SGM :said by Mr Matt : I guess the Malaysian government is going to tell their Amateur Radio Operators, if they have any, to suck gas if the BPL Signal interferes with their signal. At least in most countries, Amateur Radio Operators have some kind of appeals process with the Government, and a lobbying organization like the ARRL. In Malaysia, if you are a Ham and you complain, you simply get shot to death by Government agents, thus they have no complaints  Too bad our government doesn't do that. Who cares if some jackass with a radio has to give it up if it means I get 224 Mbps broadband? | |
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hamkid
@comcast.net
| Re: CQ, CQ -- Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz. I'll 2nd that both my dad and step dad are hams and have spent thousands of $ on set ups that would survive through quite a lot. When everything else is down you can pretty much bet that there are still hams plugging away getting info in and out of places not because they expect something in return just because they love it. As for our government not doing the "right" thing and using one form of last mile over the many others that are available (and completely viable for a country such as ours) well that just daft.
You would be spitting in the face of people who pour there hearts and souls in to a hobby that they love just so the ISP's don't have to build a new network.
Besides what would you rather have a network that maxes out at 224mbs or a fiber line that can push 1gbs+ | |
| | | | | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·magicjack.com
·EarthLink
| said by Mr Matt : During an emergency, when a hurricane passes and commercial communications are out, Amateur Radio Operators provide important communication relay services for Fire, Medical and Police. It's not clear how many participate in this alleged social positive. We hear there are 700k licensed hobbyists. But, that doesn't translate into active users. And, when a disaster occurs (like the Washington floods) we hear about 20-30 hobbyists performing this social positive.
It would be to the hobbyists benefit to make their emergency services usefulness more visible if they're going to use this as their "don't tread on me" mantra. They can't "take such a low profile" (as you put it) and then get all "act up" over the slightest encroachment of their hobby.
said by Mr Matt :Amateur radio operators spend thousands of dollars on equipment... These services are at no cost to the taxpayer. That's not necessarily a positive without knowing the social positive to the tax payer, whether it outweighs other uses of the spectrum, and whether radio hobbyists can use higher frequencies (2 meter for example) for their rare and apparently low participation disaster services.
Personally I like that latter option because it would force more hobbyists to participate in disaster services, which is what taxpayers are led to believe is the reason to preserve hobby radio in perpetuity.
But, at this juncture the radio hobbyists will say it's not just their spectrum, it's the military, et. al who will be affected. That may be a valid argument. But, it leads to the conclusion that hobbyists know they're irrelevant and riding the coattails of "real" uses. Perhaps emergency services should be lodged with those other "real" uses too.
I think it's an important topic which more of the public should be aware of -- beyond hobbyist propaganda.
Mark | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
Lehighton, PA
| Re: CQ, CQ -- Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz. It's not clear to some people how many amateurs "allegedly" participate in emergency operations, however it's significantly more than 20 or 30. We can sit here and have these academic masturbation discussions and ponder pointless splitting-hairs questions about numbers, but the fact is the HF wireless spectrum is more valuable as a worldwide and regional communications medium than a landfill for RF-leaky wired networks. Negative mudslinging such as labeling the facts as "hobbyist propaganda" isn't productive and is misleading the public. | |
| | | | | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| said by amigo_boy :And, when a disaster occurs (like the Washington floods) we hear about 20-30 hobbyists performing this social positive. Tsk, tsk ... selectively stating your case again, it seems.
I can conclude only one of two things. If you have done any research you would see that FAR more than 20-30 licensed amateur operators are involved in various emergency communications and public-service radiocommunications. If in knowing this, you continue to intentionally create posts intended to mislead, you are being deceitful, and lack credibility.
If you haven't done the research and are just wildly assuming that 20-30 hobbyists are involved in emergency communications, you are ignorant, and lack credibiilty on that basis.
And it seems that not all people more directly involved in emergency communications work agree with your position. Here's some more "propaganda" for you to try to discredit:
»www.arrl.org/?artid=8129
National Hurricane Center Director: Hams Give "Valuable" Reports (Apr 7, 2008) -- Director of the National Hurricane Center (NHC) Bill Read, KB5FYA, praised Amateur Radio at the National Hurricane Conference in Orlando earlier this month. "Ham radio has always played a critical role in emergencies," Read said. "What goes out when you have a high wind event or major flooding is the communications system, so you lose even cell phones, landline phones, commercial radio and TV. In those cases, ham radio operators that can put up emergency transmitters and antennas in the wake of a storm can give us reports that are valuable. They also help in the search and rescue efforts in the aftermath." The NHC has a dedicated amateur station on-site -- WX4NHC -- and has worked closely with hams for decades.
I'll trade the above for your misrepresentations any day.
Ed Hare (real name and all)
W1RFI@arrl.org | |
| | | | | 
burner50
Pinlifter
Premium,VIP
join:2002-06-05
On the lead | Third that | |
| | | |
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
Lehighton, PA
| said by Xizer :said by KA3SGM :said by Mr Matt : I guess the Malaysian government is going to tell their Amateur Radio Operators, if they have any, to suck gas if the BPL Signal interferes with their signal. At least in most countries, Amateur Radio Operators have some kind of appeals process with the Government, and a lobbying organization like the ARRL. In Malaysia, if you are a Ham and you complain, you simply get shot to death by Government agents, thus they have no complaints Too bad our government doesn't do that. Who cares if some jackass with a radio has to give it up if it means I get 224 Mbps broadband? "If it means I get 224 Mbps broadband" being the key part of that sentence. BPL providers have been bragging about 200 Mbs BPL chipsets here in the US for years, and we're still waiting for BPL subscribers to see anything more than DSL or mediocre cable speeds (or get more than 10,000 customers). The interference problem has been supposedly fixed for some time, so they can't use that as an excuse (although the BPL industry never really acknowledged it as problem in the first place). The jackass in this situation is the one waiting for big bandwidth from a technology that has over promised and under delivered for 10 years.
Nevermind the fact that the whole cheap/fast BPL broadband versus radio amateurs debate is a moot point since BPL doesn't even use the spectrum it affects, it just pollutes it. | |
| | | | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| Re: CQ, CQ -- Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz. said by rf_engineer :"If it means I get 224 Mbps broadband" being the key part of that sentence. BPL providers have been bragging about 200 Mbs BPL chipsets here in the US for years, and we're still waiting for BPL subscribers to see anything more than DSL or mediocre cable speeds (or get more than 10,000 customers). I think that overpromising and underdelivering has been a major part of the difficulities this industry has had. After all that hype about "224 Mb/s," when that system doesn't even come close to delivering that to the end user, all of the hype will have been in vain. And the 200 Mb/s chipsets don't come close to delivering that speed to the end user.
On a good day, across a short segmenet of line, two BPL modems can sometimes achieve 50 Mb/s talking to each other. Put any noise on the line and it will drop. Increase the length of the line and it will drop.
»www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=blo···60001716
Now, try running these chipsets as an access BPL system, with overhead, multiple repeaters and shared users. The premise that this can deliever the 224 Mb/s that is the internal speed of the chipsets involved is laughable.
Austin Energy tried a 200 Mb/s BPL system. Their conclusions are much closer to reality than the hype presented in the article:
»p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/coaae_BP···port.ppt
"Network speed fluctuated from 250 KB/s to 750 KB/s but mainly stayed on the high end when a single user."
The report offers more information about the reliability of the system and overall user satisfaction. Trying to send high-speed digital signals on wires that were never intended to carry such signals has never been a good idea.
In the testing of access BPL systems I have done, I have seen from 250 kB/s to 3 Mb/s available to the end user.
The industry is harming itself in long run by promising what cannot be delivered.
Ed Hare, W1RFI | |
| | | | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| said by rf_engineer :Nevermind the fact that the whole cheap/fast BPL broadband versus radio amateurs debate is a moot point since BPL doesn't even use the spectrum it affects, it just pollutes it. Yeah, but to our grade-school insult poster, licensed users are the "spectrum hogs" and the polluter is the good guy.
Now where's the sport in that?
Although I must point out that "polluter" is a bit harsher than should be used. Pollution is persistent, where as radio signals (licensed or noise) stop when the transmitter stops. If BPL systems avoid locally used spectrum, radiation from their system is not pollution, IMHO.
I have to wonder whether our grade-school-insult poster would be NIMBY himself if a noise source interfered with HIS use of spectrum. Or would that be one of those do-as-he-says, not do-as-he-does sort of things? We will know if he suggests that BPL should be put on top of cell-phone and broadbast radio spectrum, especially his favorite channels. 
Of course, we can't expect much from a fellow who is so ashamed of his own name that he has to take mine, now, can we? (I've never understood the need to hide behind "screen names." I post on a number of forums and have never had an issue with using my real identity.) I am not ashamed of my ideas and positions, so I see no reason to hide. I think that these discussions would be a LOT different if everyone had to take personal responsibility for what they have to say.
Ed Hare, W1RFI | |
| 
rameus
Bad Craziness
Premium
join:2001-01-28
Martinez, CA
clubs: | re: BPL deployment If companies like PG&E, So Cal Edison and Conn Ed had the ball$ to deploy something like this, the payoff on the back end would be large........ | |
| | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·magicjack.com
·EarthLink
| Re: re: BPL deployment said by rameus :If companies like PG&E, So Cal Edison and Conn Ed had the ball$ to deploy something like this, the payoff on the back end would be large........ I think you'll see deployment as backhaul for Wimax nodes.
Mark | |
| | |
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
Lehighton, PA
| Re: re: BPL deployment said by amigo_boy :said by rameus :If companies like PG&E, So Cal Edison and Conn Ed had the ball$ to deploy something like this, the payoff on the back end would be large........ I think you'll see deployment as backhaul for Wimax nodes. Why? BPL isn't a long haul technology; it needs repeaters every 2000 feet and BPL traffic itself needs to be backhauled using copper, fiber, or wireless to get out of the neighborhood. Also, Amperion has been offering hybrid Wifi APs on the pole and BPL on the lines for years, so wireless and BPL combinations are nothing new, but the thought of using BPL for backhaul is like using a Yugo to carry a freight train. | |
| |
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
Lehighton, PA
| said by rameus :If companies like PG&E, So Cal Edison and Conn Ed had the ball$ to deploy something like this, the payoff on the back end would be large........ PG&E and Con Ed both tested it. The Con Ed trial system is still operation I think (I think it's been around since 2003 or 2004), though they haven't done anything commercial with it and there's been no public indication that they will. PG&E did testing with AT&T and pulled the plug in 2004. So, someone had the "ball$" to test it, but apparently the payoff wasn't there to justify deployment. | |
| | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| Re: re: BPL deployment Ball$ to test it:
A sampling of some utilities who did NOT pursue BPL after trials:
United Illuminating
PPL - small remnant remains to fulfill contracts
Alliant Energy
IdaCorp - It's foray into BPL cost $10M to shareholders
Pacific Gas and Electric
San Diego Gas and Electric
Austin Energy
In the US, there are now slightly more BPL systems that have been abandoned than are currently in operation, although most were small feasibility trials.
to name just a few.
OTOH, others have continued some interest in BPL
Oncor - Large commercial deployement in Dallas (Current)
Con Ed - Small trial still in operation
Duke - Deployment in OH not expanding, but passing 50k homes. Some ongoing interest in integrating BPL with smart grid.
Ed Hare, W1RFI | |
| 
shoe1
join:2007-09-28
Colfax, CA | When? through satilite? Can someone please tell me when!!!???
and if it's feed by sat will the latency still be through the roof? | |
| | 
La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Hewitt, NJ
clubs:
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
| Re: When? through satilite? said by shoe1 :Can someone please tell me when!!!??? and if it's feed by sat will the latency still be through the roof? Do you live in Malaysia? | |
| | |
shoe1
join:2007-09-28
Colfax, CA | Re: When? through satilite? lol no...just making a point that all theses article that tell about a awesome technology but never even mention a release date of the slightest...which I think defeat any purpose of the article. | |
|
EdHareball
@comcast.net | It's prolly true... It's amazing what you can do when you don't have all those NIMBY ARRL spectrum hogs blocking progress. | |
| |
See 7 replies to this post | |
jspsnby
@gci.net | You forget.... They can set up a mainframe for less than ten bucks because $1.58 will pay the salaries of ten of their workers for an entire year. | |
| Xybirium
join:2006-04-29
Malaysia
| Read the article properly!!! I am from Malaysia and I noticed the figure of 60 million users seems weird. Malaysia only has a population of about 30 million.
Computer World Malaysia might have written the article but it is talking about Indonesia.
I'm sure you guys/gals know how to use Google and do read the article properly before you start bashing/praising.
...or am I wrong??? | |
| |
asian
@net.th
| Re: Read the article properly!!! said by Xybirium :I am from Malaysia and I noticed the figure of 60 million users seems weird. Malaysia only has a population of about 30 million. Computer World Malaysia might have written the article but it is talking about Indonesia. I'm sure you guys/gals know how to use Google and do read the article properly before you start bashing/praising. ...or am I wrong??? Haha you're right.
The article is clearly titled 'World's largest BPL deployment in ----> Indonesia' ---
Looks like all the George W Bush wannabes just attacked the wrong country (an all too American habit)
Indonesia has a population of around 200M mostly moslems.
Malaysia is 20M or 22M or thereabouts.
Anyway, not all Americans are as bad as GWB or the writers above and not all Indonesians are rabid. Each country is probably about as bad as the other. I'm Australian - we're not as bad as either of them. | |
|
Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 |  (topic offline) Oh Good
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.
stated reason was: Off topic, racist crap. | |
| 
DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs: | Censorship? I imagine Internet access in 40,000 Mosques will be monitored and censored. Too bad it's not 40,000 libraries instead.
-Dane | |
| | mackintire
join:2004-03-26
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Censorship? I bet that all those WRT54G's (1 per building)will be working overtime. Otherwise I foresee a QOS disaster. | |
| | | |
|
|
Re: CQ, CQ -- Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz.
Amateur Radio Operators take such low profile few realize their importance to the community, they remain unappreciated. During an emergency, when a hurricane passes and commercial communications are out, Amateur Radio Operators provide important communication relay services for Fire, Medical and Police. Amateur radio operators spend thousands of dollars on equipment including emergency generators so they can be on the air obtaining assistance for their neighbors when commercial power is not available. These services are at no cost to the taxpayer.